Ducati Monster Forum

This past weekend, I had a chance to evaluate the new SupaNova HSi integrated taillight, from Vizi-Tec.  Here's a writeup of my experience, with pictures and video.

http://trenner.blogspot.com/2009/08/supanova.html (http://trenner.blogspot.com/2009/08/supanova.html)

Enjoy!

Holy  8)  :o

Perhaps a simple switch to change from daylight to night riding would be in order?
Bernard's light makes our bikes outdated - amazing [thumbsup]
He has gotten himself into trouble though - now he has to make a headlight to match  [coffee] [popcorn]

Yipes!  Can that be legal... man that looks blinding - I want it

Any notions to when the production run will ship and MSRP?

GIMMEEEEEE!  I want.   ;D

wow

can you get the bracket separately, I wonder?

I imagine so; they're a separate part number.

They're meant for integrated turn signals and integrated license plate light, though, so I wouldn't buy one unless your tail light is an all-in one unit, or you'll be rudely surprised.

Holy crap.  :o

Awesome.  It be amazing if it had user-adjustable brightness.

 [clap]

The HSi makes my 490i almost obsolete.   :'(  Although the test 490i in the video doesn't flash 5x like mine does when you first hit the brake. 

Yep, my 490i is missing the SupaBrake algorithm.  I'll get it upgraded eventually (it's just a firmware change to enable SupaBrake), but for right now I'm too busy riding it to lose the tail light for the few days required to get it reflashed.

I heard a rumor that Vizi-Tech has a tank of sharks with frikkin' LASERS mounted on their heads!

How do you purchase this Tail light? he doesn't seem to have them on his website anymore, and my Emails I have sent seem to have never been answered, I got an email a couple of months back saying the taillights were now available, and then they disappeared again?

Whats going on with them?

All the old lights are sold out and won't be reintroduced.
The new light shown here will be on the market, I guess in small series, later...    I'm not defining "later".
I'm sure we'll be informed when it's time [thumbsup]

Bernard (the owner of Vizi-Tec) is a forum member, and will probably chime in, but here's a recent post from him:

http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=28446.msg496330#msg496330 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=28446.msg496330#msg496330)

Hay CairnsDuc , I emailed the RTA but got no response (no big surprise) do you know if we can use intergrated indicator brake lights in OZ ? As I likey the look of this puppy.
Oz group buy ?? sounds interesting.

Not legal for Australia, the distance between the Indicator lights is not enough, I forget the legal distance, but the integrated is way to close to be legal.

Now I know what is going on with Bernard, I will be happy to take a number and wait in line, I didn't understand that this was a side project for him, I thought it was a full time business venture and I grew a bit suspect when Emails didn't get answered and half his website disappears.
Now I understand, I'll pull my head in and wait for new designs to be forth coming!  ;D

God damn that new design is bloody bright!  :o

Thanks for all the great feedback. And special thanks to Tom (trenner) for taking the time to post a great write up and video [clap] of this first article product.
From his input and from others whom have seen the SupaNova-HSi in person, all have said... "it is too f**king bright... turn in down man!!!" :o  

Tom has return his prototype(just the driver box) back to me for "detuning". I will decrease its intensity by a factor of 25% - 35% and return to him for more field tests. I have 1 more going out tomorrow and other early next week. So expect for more reviews/pics soon.

However... I'm sure some of you will want this RAW power as is.

This is what i've been thinking for a long term solution (production units):
1 - Just leave it as is? Keep it turned up to "11"  24/7.  Don't  F with it [evil]
2 - Factory programed to preset level per customer request. They pick from number of levels. Will need to return unit to adjust level.
3 - Put a selector switch for user define output brightness?
4 - I'm also debating about integrating a light sensor in a closed loop configuration that will vary the output intensity depending on amount of sunshine or lack of for that matter. So output will be very bright in daylight and less bright at night. This requires a major circuit redesign of the driver. Which = more delays. Another major issue is where will this ugly sensor be located on the Monster?

Personally i can see an input selector switch being the finial solution. BUT one issue will be the need to remove the seat cover to access the driver box each time rider wanted to modify the output light level. I could bring this out on a pigtail so option to mount this switch is customer defined.

Thoughts? Feedback? Maybe we should have a vote?  I want to close on this soon and starting ordering some volume production units.

Thanks,
-Bernard

I like option 3.  Would it be a toggle switch (position 1 - very bright, position 2 - moderately bright, etc.) or an infinitely adjustable knob (pot-style)?


As far as switch accessibility, I don't think people will be adjusting the light output very often and taking the seat off isn't that much of a hassle.  I think placement on the driver box is good.

That was my thinking as well.  I'd not change the intensity day by day (or by night), but rather set it and forget it.

Also, this (3) strikes me as better than a factory preset for two reasons:

1) It's hard to know the real brightness, and choose a correct preset, until you see it.  Even having seen the video, you might be surprised.  I'd expect to see returns for adjustment.

2) Everybody likes to show off occasionally.  Being able to change the brightness yourself feeds that need.

All this assumes that adding a selector switch to the design is reasonable from a schedule and cost and design perspective.  There's nothing wrong with a unit that's factory tuned.  A selector switch is just somewhat cooler.

i think a click button would be the best. Havei t click 5 times and it changes in sequential order. Its cheaper and easier. but only let it control the day time running light. cause for the brake light, i like it at 11.

Out of the options, 3 seems best to me.  I like he mans idea.  A simple membrane clicker switch on the box that just lets you cycle through a series of pre sets. Simple, minimal bulk and probably more resilient than a twisty knob

1) - Might be an issue.. In my area, sure I'd like to stun the cagers - but in the evenings/night in the woods it might well blind a trailing rider.

2) - I think you're asking for a lot more work for your self - I'd rather see you spend you time on cool products than running to the post office.

4) - Too much hassle in the short term - maybe for the next iteration

So Bernard, and thoughts on MSRP?

That's the spirit!

But seriously, I think that the brake-on mode has to be adjustable, or you've done nothing to address the blinding==dangerous aspect of the unit.  I'm quite serious when I say that a person behind you at a stop light would be suffering pain and accumulating damage to their eyes, and maybe even be forced to look away from the shock of it, if you had that light set at the current intensity.  Now suppose that you're slowing to a stop, with a cager on your tail.  Do you want to force them to avert or close their eyes as they're trying to safely brake behind you?

Overall intensity is too high, not just the running light mode.  You could still set it to 11 if you wanted, but the ability to tone everything down (via clicker or rotary DIP switch or factory preset) is essential for me to be willing to equip it.

You know.... that is a good idea! Go big of or home ;D

So here is a solution that will keep both camp happy.:
If I'm adding one selector switch, i can easily add two. But it will not be the toggle/click type, as it would require some sort of a static/flash memory to hold the last configuration when power is removed from the system. Else rider will need to go through the sequence again each time he starts bike etc.   So most likely the switch(es) will be a horizontal slider type. One to select the offset level(running light), and the select the peak (brake light).

The unit will be shipped with all switches set to the lowest settings. The "Safe Mode". All other modes are for "Off Road" usage only ;D   

Honestly i would say make the beast with two backs em. dont ride so close to me. Everyone here seems to want to drive with high beams for some make the beast with two backsign reason even though theres 6 lights on each street at night.

But maybe you can use 1 button for 2 functions. when you click it, it adjust the steady light, when you hold the brake down and click it, it adjusts the brake light.

High Beams = Stolen - duh  ;D

I'm for startling the hell out of the soccer mom/texting orange girl behind me with a fusillade of light - But I don't always have to bring up the rear in the pack of bikes for fear of melting someones face shield during a group ride.

The 2 slider solution works for me.  I didn't think about the fact that you'd need a tiny bit of non-volitile memory in there to use a single clicker button - should'a known.

Same flash memory problem...

Any word as to SRP $?

This is a low volume product. As a result when i go to the suppliers to procure the parts, I do not get the price breaks one would expect. All my parts have to be obtained from a middle man (Newark, Digi-Key...etc). We all know about the middle man :(  The same is true for the shop fabricating the PCB. These blank boards can range from $100's each to $1-$2 for order of 1000 pieces. Again, I can't ship these out overseas to be assembled. Volume is just way to low. The companies in China or Taiwan etc won't even look at this project unless i was willing to order min 1500 pcs. Just the LEDs themselves per unit is ~$100 per tail light. The labour on these is also taxing. Each unit needs to be tested and burnt in and sometimes troubleshoot. Not as simple to reproduce as spinning a piece of Aluminum and charging $100's for it [roll]

I really wish i could make these for less.  Believe me. If i did make it for less. I would not want it on my Ducati [puke]  If it's not good enough to be on my bike. Then it's just not good enough!

Goal is to keep MSRP to par with the SN490i <was>.

That's about what I figured it would be.  And for far, seems a better value. More functionality (and light) for the same price as the previous generation

When they do become available, would you mind updating this topic, or making a new one?
just so I know when to get some $$$ together, don't want to miss out this time  ;D

Now that I finish work at night, I wouldn't mind having a really bright tail light, easier for the Idiots drivers up here to see me when they are:
A: Sending a Text message
B: Eating a Burger
C: Reading the Paper
E: Changing CD/Changing song on there iPod
F: Slapping the kids about
G: Doing anything other than paying attention to driving a Car
H: All of the Above (Correct Answer!)

*** Picking their nose *** is number one accident -causer in the US of A

I received an update to the HSi prototype from Vizi-Tec yesterday; I'm playing hooky from work to mess with it this afternoon!

The intensity has been turned down per my request. If we call the previous intensity a 10 (or 11), the newest prototype has selectable intensities of something like 3 and 6.  If you start it up without holding the brake lever, it initializes itself as a 3.  If you hold the brake lever during start up, it initializes itself as a 6.

I recall Bernard saying that the thing was only at about 50% of total possible output originally, so I guess that means that this could potentially go up to 20 or so on the brightness scale.  Grown men would weep, or perhaps just burst into flames, though.  He Man, I'm talking at you.   ;D

These aren't necessarily production intensities, nor a production interface for choosing intensity, based upon discussions with Bernard.  But they are useful for playing around with it and seeing what sort of brightness I'd actually want in a production unit.

Here's a video of the new unit showing the two settings.

SupaNova tail light 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EShg9ycmQI0#normal)

The original full quality video is available here (http://homepage.mac.com/trenner/video/SupaNova2.m4v).

My opinion is that these are close to hitting the sweet spot from a product perspective.  The more dim 3 setting might be most suitable for night driving, or if you get pulled over for using the 6 setting.  The 6 setting is dang bright without being "dazzling", and is probably what I'd choose to use as a good tradeoff between being hard to ignore, and not causing an accident with a light cannon.

I'm not sure that I like the 3 setting visually all that much because of the discrete nature of the LEDs in that mode.  It's obvious that there are only a handful of LEDs, and it consequently looks less refined than the SupaNova 490i.  But on the 6 setting, that becomes less obvious, and the pure intensity makes me like it more overall than the 490i...I think.  I still love the 490i.

I'll write more after I play with it more.

I have a few hundys laying around for a telescope i wanted to buy. How much would it cost for me to get one of these thigns to test out in NYC?

I would still like to have a particle beam canon at the rear end of my bike. There's a lot of light pollution in NYC, and during mid day light, especially in the winter (because for some reason there are no such things as clouds during that time), i think level 11, or perhaps 20  [evil] may be required.

I am serious about picking one up to test if you need me too. :) my CA taillight took a shit on me and its parking light is blinking, so i need a replacement....well....when the stop light dies too then ill really have to!

I'd be interested in seeing the 30% intensity in daylight outdoors.  Outdoors at 60%, the non-braking intensity is what I would like to have during braking.  I guess the 30% would probably be right along the lines of what I want.

Here ya go.

SupaNova tail light 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pku7BnI6fDk#normal)

The original full quality video is available here (http://homepage.mac.com/trenner/video/SupaNova2a.m4v).

Thanks.  I don't mind the dispersed LED look.  It has a technological look that appeals to me.  There is a better distinguishability between brake-on and off as well.

I'm glad to see someone using manly LED's.  There is no such thing as too much dragon slaying lightpower is there?

I wonder what is next for Bernard? (Supposedly this is the last iteration of SupaNova for the older Monsters -- limited quantity only so get in line early!) And the big questions is thus: how can the taillight be improved beyond this in the future?  [roll] ;D

 - adding the sensor idea, which Bernard mentioned - automatic adjustment 8)
 - connection to ECU and/or motion sensor, triggering some/all brake LEDs upon sudden throttle release/engine braking 8)
 

that would make the unit cost more than it needs to be. face the facts, would you actually turn down the thing? youd set it at something reasonable and forget about it.

Maybe you can use a less brighter LED. theres no point in buying poweful LEDs if you are never going to run them at a high setting.

A chrono-particle emitter headlight bulb... it lets you see the future!

 [roll] everyone knows you use an inverse tachyon beam to see the future.

Only if you want it see it upside down...

Luddite  ;D

Yes. The end product will have an interface via brake/turn signals switch to neither temporarily set a power level of your choice, or permanently flash the ROM so selected level becomes your new default level.

Like i've said all along. The SupaNova-HSi will never be as "pretty" as the SN490i to view. However, it will out shine it due to its raw power. This was the indent of its creation. Raw power. Also i would like to add that the production version of the HSi will have a more uniform LED placement pattern then what you are seeing per Tom's vids/pics. Ver2 of the PCB will yield a more refined less dispersed look.

Thanks!  Yes. This will be the LAST design for the classic Monsters and will also be a limited production run. I was planning on 200 units, but have since decided to run with 50 due to initial cost and the fact that i don't want to spend the next 5 yrs making/sustaining these. I'll look on how well these 50 go and will revisit the idea of running a 2nd batch next year.  The design is 100% done. I'm currently having some major issues procuring some of the parts at a decent price and lead time. So really there is no reason why i can't take orders now. These will list for ~10% less then the SN490i.
As to what is next for Beranrd? Mark you know what we're working buddy [beer]  Shuuuu... top secret stuff which will come to light soon.
For others reading this post. Let's just say that there are a few MotoCreations/Vizi-tec ventures in the works. One of which is already complete. Our quality and functionality will be second to none.

I looked into this. The only less powerful LED that would have met my specs(dispersal angle, wavelenght, efficiency linearity, heat resistance, footprint, package) was unattainable for this production numbers. The vendor would not move on their minimum buy numbers. If i got them at the price they offered via distributors? The cost was slightly less then the more powerful LEDs. The vendor for the more powerful LEDs allowed me to buy direct with a much lower volume. It boilded down to a price point that was about the same. So i used the powerful LEDs.

Technically speaking, efficiency of any LED will degrade over time. The harder they are driven to the edge of their operating envelope the sooner this will become fact. LEDs can degrade as much as 25% of their initial light output. These bigger more powerful LEDs i'm using in the SupaNova-HSi are no where being driven near their max operation limits; Even at the brightest power level selection.
Per my design, the light level you select today, will be the light level(or very  near) the output level you will get 5 years from now.  If the less powerful LED were used? They would have had to be driven much harder towards their max operation limits to archive even ~20% of the powerful ones.  Bottomline: I chose to build a robust system.

How can we get on the waiting list?

Robust sounds good to me!

Is there anyway you can supply additional clear lens?

I have a list already from ppl who are interested and whom have missed out on the SN490i.
If you are interested shoot me an email at bernard@vizi-tec.com with your name. I'll send out a mass email when I post and accept orders along with link to order page. If limit of 46(i'm holding on to 4) is reached i will let you know.

I ship with your choice of smoked, clear, blue, yellow and  red <red only for none integrated>. When you put amber/yellow LEDs behind a red lens the red filters out the amber/yellow colour and what you get is  [puke]. Also unsafe. That is why i don't ship integrated units with red lens.
Yes i can supply additional lens. I've done this in the past.
BTW: The SupaNova will not work with the stock lens.

Email Sent!  ;D

Pm & email sent!

Email sent!

Main reason behind additional lens is the what if....such as...what if someone threw a rock at me and hit my lens? or What if someone puts a cigarette out on my lens...or what if i crash and the lens breaks? etc...

Im excitied!

...or what if the ex gf/wife drags a key across it...?
 
I totally understand where you're coming from  [thumbsup]

These things water resistant... or should I say Restaurant waste fat/grease resistant? These are important items to know for He Man

Hello Bernard
So the non Integrated version (I have to have separate indicators in Australia) will that be available with Smoke or Clear lens covers? or red only?
I just want to make sure I read your post above correctly

Thanks

I wouldn't want to be riding in fat/grease etc... but hey. Each for their own  [cheeky]  Yes. There is a gasket around the heatsink that seals off the inside LED chamber to the outside ambient atmosphere. This will help to keep lens(inside) nice clean and dry  [thumbsup]
http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=28446.15 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=28446.15)   <--- this post will have some pics of the insides showing the gasket/heatsink. Middle of page 2.

Non-integrated(i.e No amber/yellow LEDs) version comes in all colors. This version will also be cheaper.
Integrated version(i.e WITH amber/yellow LEDs) will not be offered in red.

I should also add. <been getting loads of emails> If you get the non-integrated version or no license plate white LEDs, your unit will be shipped with ~16" pigtails for you to hookup your stock/third party blinkers/lic. plate light.
Pigtails 3 pairs of wires:  (+12V/Ground) , (Left Signal/Ground) & (Right/Ground).   

VERY important.

Have you given any thought of a bright led turn signal board to fit in the stock housing? That might satisfy some local objections to the intigrated signals.


Tim

This idea has crossed my mind. Reasons being why I didn't move forward was reliability. Meaning I would have had to ship my PCA unprotected. Not something I'm keen about. There would be no guarantee how the field work would be performed. It would have been more of a headache for me. Even with the best of installation instructions there would be screw-ups/damaged boards/returns and not to mention the endless questions I would be bombarded with weekly.

However, one idea that have always crossed my mind was plugging the end holes of the classic Monster with 2 of the brightest LEDs on the market. Last year I designed a compact LED driver for friend of mine in Calgary. He makes some really cool barends turn signals/LED. I'll try to find a pic and update this post later.

Anyway. I have these dime size LED drivers that i've always wanted to integrated on the rear of the Classic Monsters. I know some of you have done this mod on here before using multiple less powerful standard narrow dispersion LEDs. But I was thinking of using just one large/powerful/wide angle LED in-cased inside some nice billet machined AL. The extra metal will act as a heat sink and given it is used on a 50% duty cycle. So no chance of it over heating. Proper voltage step down regulator(so no need for big ass external resistors). All in a nice little package. The intensity would be that of the SupaNovaHSi if not brighter!

When you activate your turn signals with these bad boyz... The cage behind you will know what your intentions are 8)
Check it out. Did some rendering of it last month. I have the design done. The problem was cost for the metal bits. So project came to a stop.

Small compact LED board with step down switching current source. (I have an updated version of these that is more powerful)
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt251/vizi-tec/barends-7.jpg)
<Preliminary> Shown - Rubber boot to expand inside frame for secure fit.
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt251/vizi-tec/untitled60.jpg)

(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt251/vizi-tec/untitled58.jpg)

(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt251/vizi-tec/untitled55.jpg)

Nice and clean design. I sure you could sell the.
 I saw a lowboy heavy equipment hauler with the brightest led lamp i have ever seen. It was noticeable on the highway in the daytime over a mile away.  When I got home I tied to figure out what they were. The closest thing I could see was a Lwxon star ( this was about a year and a half ago). 

Tim

Ohmic said they are "just days away" - sweet! My Aged CA unit was already getting a bit dim... Then one of the LEDs fell off last week killing two whole rows when the circuit path was cut. Can't wait for my lasers

Got my email last night and Bernard expects my unit to ship later this week - sweet. And in a little nod to his customer service, he reminded me that I'd asked about additional pigtails - which had slipped my mind.  [thumbsup]

Let the laser light show commence

ordered mine.  waiting impatiently.  ;D

Dr. Evil ordered a dozen, with the optional "Shark Mounting Kit".

Sorry to say, but I will pass, little to rich for me for a tail light.
I knew they were going to be expensive because of the quality of product, but nearly $300 is a little out of my price range.

I'll stick with my crappy CA LED tail light for now  :'(

It's such a quality product and production is so limited, I'm pretty sure you  can get what you paid for it if you need to sell it.  His previous design is still fetching top dollar in the marketplace.  Even if that wasn't the case, I think something this quality and feature packed is worth 300.

Well I dawdled and missed out on the first version. Since then my CA unit got dimmer and just recently parts started to fall off. It lasted a number of years so I'm not too miffed... But stuff dud fall off killing a couple rows.  Also I never cared for the fake bulb connection - seemed a half assed solution. But yes it cost a lot less... Even so im thinking this will be a 'get what you pay for' product. 

Received, installed, totally bad ass.  Will post pics soon.

Got mine a bit ago, and finally got it installed... and I'm not sure my retinas are quite the same. Sounds a bit like my bike is waiting to take off when the fans spin up

It's really a shame those fans aren't visible, isn't is? 8) Maybe they could be repositioned to the sides - with carbon
fiber air ducts [evil]

Had a couple questions for Bernard, which he responded to super fast. Since they are info for anyone with these units - here you go (with a couple edits/additions)

External light pigtails
if you have one and need to attach the pigtails - the data sheet on the product page has the pin assignments and colors
http://www.vizi-tec.com/products/ducati.html (http://www.vizi-tec.com/products/ducati.html)
http://www.vizi-tec.com/installation_docs/ducati/DATASHEET_HS.pdf (http://www.vizi-tec.com/installation_docs/ducati/DATASHEET_HS.pdf)
- follow that sheet and you should be set.

Setting the light level
The unit has 3 levels. The factory default is the Mid level. If you power on the bike an do nothing the HS will default to this each time. The setting is not stored once the power is off.

The mid setting is shown by the unit flashing 2 times after it's start up disco sequence completes.

To adjust the light level:
Hold a brake lever, while powering up.  The unit will run through it's start up Disco sequence, pause then flash 3 times. If you release the lever then, the light will be set to it's high setting.

If you continue to hold the lever, there will be a 2 second pause after the 3 flashes, then it'll flash 2 times, pause then flash a single time. If you release the lever after that single flash, then the unit is set to Low. As long as you hold the lever, it will continue to run through this 3-2-1 flash, pause sequence until the lever is released.

Bernard recommends Low for night time

Good info Yuu.  I'm surprised nobody has posted pics yet.  I will as soon as my powdercoated bits get reinstalled.

I received mine last friday and installed it yesterday,"WOW" its awesome. The wiring for the indicators and number plate light took alittle time and I had to make a plate for the control box to fit under the sargent seat but when it was all set up and with alittle apprehension I switched the ignition key on and it went through its disco sequence and the fans came on,well Bernard all I can say is that you are a bloody genius  [bow_down]

Thanks Yuu for posting the set up info  [thumbsup]

 [coffee]

Just have to say that Bernard is super cool to deal with, I've got the SN490i and its a great light, I don't regret paying a premium price for a premium light.  You absolutely get what you pay for.  And again, Bernard is great to do business with, quick and detailed responses, well packaged and shipped products, I can't say enough good about the guy and the light.

Period.   

I have to say that this is one of the finest parts that I have ever had the pleasure of installing on my bike. The design an execution are top notch and Bernard is a joy to talk to.

While it is a bit on the spendy side, I can't imagine not having such a good light doing its best to keep cagers from driving up my keister.

Install was a breeze, works as advertised.  Can't ask for much more.

Not a detail shot, but here it is on the bike with the smoke lens:

(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t309/alexsgaxe/DSC00606.jpg)

The price is not that unreasonable if you consider the quality and the price of a couple of Kellerman or Rizoma turn signals and a Hyperlite modulating brake light.