Instead of threadjacking Neenja's pole dancing thread, figured a new topic should be started.
Yes, I find it repulsive that my lunch or beverage has to sit next to a container containing human bodily fluid.
How would you like some of my bodily fluid sitting next to your lunch? I am guessing you wouldn't.
The women at work already get a pumping room, why can't they just buy a 80$ fridge to put in there?
As for storing my lunch elsewhere..........this isn't an option as that is the only fridge on my side of the building.
boobies
Quote from: bobspapa on September 09, 2009, 06:56:46 AM
boobies
[laugh] [laugh] [laugh]
at least we got that one out of the way early
Why don't you find out what OSHA's policy is?
Breast milk in our community fridge wouldn't bother me. There are far worse things growing the next generation of penicillin vacines in ours right now. In your situation with the designated area a separate fridge there makes a lot more sense.
Quote from: NAKID on September 09, 2009, 07:00:43 AM
Why don't you find out what OSHA's policy is?
Well, that's a pretty interesting topic.
OSHA does not constitute breast milk as an occupational hazard.
The reasoning for that, is most likely, very politically motivated by breast milk feeding advocates.
But when one researches breast milk, results show differently
http://www.nytimes.com/1991/08/29/us/study-shows-passing-aids-in-breast-milk-is-easier-than-thought.html (http://www.nytimes.com/1991/08/29/us/study-shows-passing-aids-in-breast-milk-is-easier-than-thought.html)
The study was published in the New England Journal of Medicine, which is a reliable and accurate source. The study basically was on third world countries and HIV being transmitted to the infant via breast milk.
I realize this study was done in Third World Countries, but the fact of the transferring of HIV is the same regardless of where you live.
my wife pumps and puts it in the office fridge
but in a cooler bag with the bag not sealed so the cold air gets in.
she asked if it bothered anyone, and no one said that was a problem.
i might be skeeved if it was just sitting there in a bag or bottle, but putting it in a lunch bag or cooler bag like she does would be fine for me.
+1 on the separate fridge. Small fridges are cheap. Will solve all the problems.
But, in all fairness, you can never know what has been brought into a fridge at all times it's been available as a community fridge.
Quote from: ducatiz on September 09, 2009, 07:09:17 AM
my wife pumps and puts it in the office fridge
but in a cooler bag with the bag not sealed so the cold air gets in.
she asked if it bothered anyone, and no one said that was a problem.
i might be skeeved if it was just sitting there in a bag or bottle, but putting it in a lunch bag or cooler bag like she does would be fine for me.
See, I would have no problem with that.
One of the ladies here puts it in a standard rubbermaid style 2-quart bottle. Sometimes it is a brown bag, others in a plastic grocery sack.
If it was chocolate or strawberry flavored I don't see the problem with it! ;D
Quote from: metallimonster on September 09, 2009, 07:29:05 AM
If it was chocolate or strawberry flavored I don't see the problem with it! ;D
i just had a hilarious vision of him walking in with strawberry syrup and laughing as he walked away.
Quote from: KnightofNi on September 09, 2009, 07:43:38 AM
i just had a hilarious vision of him walking in with strawberry syrup and laughing as he walked away.
[laugh] [laugh] [laugh]
I would note the type of containers used.
Buy one.
Buy some milk, and a bag of oreos.
fill container and walk by dipping the oreos in the milk. making sure they see you. look at them and say "hey, thats not half bad!"
[laugh] but the syrup is pretty funny too.
Otherwise. yeah, gross. they should pitch in and buy themselfs a mini fridge. they really aren't that much... shit I have one in my room for beer!
Quote from: acalles on September 09, 2009, 07:56:01 AM
[laugh] [laugh] [laugh]
fill container and walk by dipping the oreos in the milk. making sure they see you. look at them and say "hey, thats not half bad!"
WoW that's great... [clap] this is the one i vote for [bow_down]
http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=INTERPRETATIONS&p_id=20952 (http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=INTERPRETATIONS&p_id=20952)
oh geez... get a grip sally
It wouldn't bother me being in the work fridge, as long as it doesn't spill onto my food. I don't want anything spilling on my stuff though.
Now, people re-heating fish in the work microwave...that DOES piss me off!!! ;D
Quote from: cyrus buelton on September 09, 2009, 07:07:25 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/1991/08/29/us/study-shows-passing-aids-in-breast-milk-is-easier-than-thought.html (http://www.nytimes.com/1991/08/29/us/study-shows-passing-aids-in-breast-milk-is-easier-than-thought.html)
Quote from: NAKID on September 09, 2009, 08:40:53 AM
http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=INTERPRETATIONS&p_id=20952 (http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=INTERPRETATIONS&p_id=20952)
That OSHA article is dated 1992.
Look at the NY Times article I posted above based off a recent study published in the New England Journal of medicine.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on September 09, 2009, 09:00:10 AM
That OSHA article is dated 1992.
Look at the NY Times article I posted above based off a recent study published in the New England Journal of medicine.
Your NYT article is dated 1991.
Why is it worse than cow's milk? Or eggs? Or undercooked meat in the fridge? What are you afraid of?
Cooties, duh.
My medical recommendation is that if you're concerned about transmission of disease via human breast milk you should avoid drinking it.
Storing body fluids in the same area as food may squick people out but as long as containers are covered and nothing is dripping there really shouldn't be a problem.
Proximity doesn't contaminate anything. Being able to see two things at the same time does not mean one is contaminating the other. Our brains get confused about this, leading to the erroneous assumption that nearness causes contamination, but that doesn't make it so. Viruses are completely immobile. Heck, they aren't even alive! They have to be transmitted by some medium, vector, or fomite. Bacteria can sometimes move, but we're talking about Angstroms in distance, not millimeters and certainly not inches or through plastic.
Finally, consider the very real fact that breast milk is food and really has no other purpose. This is true whether it's from humans or from cows. It needs to be stored properly and safely as food. A food fridge is the most appropriate place for this.
Difference between Human breast milk and cow's milk from the store is pastuerization...
Quote from: somegirl on September 09, 2009, 09:03:12 AM
Why is it worse than cow's milk? Or eggs? Or undercooked meat in the fridge? What are you afraid of?
Hepatitis, HIV, HVB, Cytomegalovirus... the list is quite long. it is no different then storing semen or blood in the office fridge.
my boss stored her breast milk in my office fridge and it leaked all over.
(out of the container, not out of her breast)
i cleaned it up
she was embarassed
my wife (RN) was concerned about contact with body fluids
i told it didnt really matter, the baby was mine anyway
thats when the fight started....
Quote from: JEFF_H on September 09, 2009, 09:21:13 AM
my boss stored her breast milk in my office fridge and it leaked all over.
(out of the container, not out of her breast)
i cleaned it up
she was embarassed
my wife (RN) was concerned about contact with body fluids
i told it didnt really matter, the baby was mine anyway
thats when the fight started....
[laugh] [laugh] [laugh]
mitt
Since you asked for opinions...I think complaining about it makes you look.... It does not paint you in a favorable light.
Buy your own fridge for your own lunch.
After the associate in our office left something once edible in the office fridge and forgot to take it with him when he was sacked leaving behind an odorous reminder of the pain and suffering of layoffs, I quit opening the company fridge so I could care less what's in there.
Quote from: NAKID on September 09, 2009, 09:15:00 AM
Difference between Human breast milk and cow's milk from the store is pastuerization...
Which does not kill all pathogens.
Quote from: 13 on September 09, 2009, 09:16:13 AM
Hepatitis, HIV, HVB, Cytomegalovirus... the list is quite long. it is no different then storing semen or blood in the office fridge.
Apart from the ick factor, what could possibly make storing semen or blood in the office fridge a problem as long as they and the other contents are properly packaged?
Quote from: mstevens on September 09, 2009, 09:32:43 AM
Which does not kill all pathogens.
Oh I know, but someone asked what the difference was...
Quote from: mstevens on September 09, 2009, 09:32:43 AM
Which does not kill all pathogens.
Apart from the ick factor, what could possibly make storing semen or blood in the office fridge a problem as long as they and the other contents are properly packaged?
the ick factor is much stronger than logic and reason.
What really matters is if the storer in question is hot....
Ill get my coat.
Quote from: KnightofNi on September 09, 2009, 09:36:37 AM
the ick factor is much stronger than logic and reason.
exactly. Most twelve year olds react the same way the op does. Then they develop reason.
Sorry... This is clearly a hot topic for me so I shall leave the thread. We had to politely threaten g's hospital about pumping space. Taken care of with a phonecall but I'm amazed how overly sanatized and scared people have become over the most natural of things.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on September 09, 2009, 07:07:25 AM
The reasoning for that, is most likely, very politically motivated by breast milk feeding advocates.
Advocates such as human babies?
Quote from: cyrus buelton on September 09, 2009, 07:07:25 AM
but the fact of the transferring of HIV is the same regardless of where you live.
You're kidding me.
Quote from: 13 on September 09, 2009, 09:16:13 AM
it is no different then storing semen or blood in the office fridge.
You're extra kidding me.
The timing of this thread is funny - yesterday my friend and I were attempting to answer the question: what is creepier? Sex toys or baby gadgets? May sound like a mismatch, but let me present my closing argument, the NoseFrida (http://www.nosefrida.com/FAQs.html).
If this is a full size fridge we're talking about I offer a simple comprimise:
Designate the bottom most crisper drawer for breast milk storage. It's physically segregated from the rest of the fridge and milk can't spill up.
Quote from: alfisti on September 09, 2009, 10:06:55 AM
Designate the bottom most crisper drawer for breast milk storage. It's physically segregated from the rest of the fridge and milk can't spill up.
again, I'd be fine with that, as I stated earlier.
Quote from: Statler on September 09, 2009, 09:42:29 AM
exactly. Most twelve year olds react the same way the op does. Then they develop reason.
Yes, I am a 12 year old. Thanks for noticing. [thumbsup]
Quote from: mstevens on September 09, 2009, 09:32:43 AM
Apart from the ick factor, what could possibly make storing semen or blood in the office fridge a problem as long as they and the other contents are properly packaged?
Nothing at all if it doesn't come into contact with something you are going to eat.
But like most arguments on the internet common sense does not play a big role.
My gf had tubs of the stuff in our fridge/freezer, it never spilled or leaked.
I am not ani-storage by any means but he does have a right to object same as they could object to him storing pork by their milk if they were Kosher. Doesn't mean that the company will change policies regarding the fridge.
Quote from: il d00d on September 09, 2009, 09:58:59 AM
You're extra kidding me.
The timing of this thread is funny - yesterday my friend and I were attempting to answer the question: what is creepier? Sex toys or baby gadgets? May sound like a mismatch, but let me present my closing argument, the NoseFrida (http://www.nosefrida.com/FAQs.html).
I extra kid you not.
but you are right that is creepy.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on September 09, 2009, 10:16:16 AM
Yes, I am a 12 year old. Thanks for noticing. [thumbsup]
Wow you handled that rudeness way better than i would.
I'll post here what I posted in the other thread:
Breastfeeding while infected with HIV is not advisable in developed countries as you risk infecting your child with it, so if there is breastmilk in the community fridge it's not going to be infected. In underdeveloped countries, yes, it is an issue but that's because they don't have alternative options like we do here. As for treating it as a bio-hazard, hospitals and the like HAVE to treat any bodily fluid as such. That doesn't mean breastmilk is in itself a hazard. There are countries like Mongolia that treat breastmilk like liquid gold and mama's frequently share it with other kids, their husbands, and frequently at work someone will check the community fridge and find half of their pumped milk gone. So really it's just a perception that human milk is gross or a hazard. If it was really such a health risk would we really be feeding it to our kids, or hell, even share breastmilk with babies who's mama's can't produce enough? (Which DOES happen here, frequently)
The issue of it being a biohazard shouldnt even be there. If that milk was contaminated with something that would make someone sick by somehow ingesting it, that particular person would not be giving it to their child and therefore wouldn't be pumping it and storing it in your fridge.
I think you are taking it personally.
He is not saying your milk is gross, or bad for your son.
I wouldn't care one way or the other if somebody put milk their milk in the fridge.
I think he does have a valid reason to voice concern, it is somebody else's bodily fluid.
Regardless if it provides nourishment to their child....
more likely to get sick resulting from a coworkers month old clam chowder....
Store your semen in the fridge next to their breast milk and tell them you save it for your wife...
[laugh]
Quote from: 13 on September 09, 2009, 10:36:09 AM
I think you are taking it personally.
He is not saying your milk is gross, or bad for your son.
I wouldn't care one way or the other if somebody put milk their milk in the fridge.
I think he does have a valid reason to voice concern, it is somebody else's bodily fluid.
Regardless if it provides nourishment to their child....
I'm not taking it personally, I'm an aspiring midwife and one of our biggest troubles is convincing women to breastfeed. Why? Because society considers it gross. The act is gross, the milk is gross, it's all gross and why should we subject ourselves and the others around us to it when we have formula? It's the mentality that frustrates me.
Quote from: NeenjaMastah on September 09, 2009, 10:42:19 AM
I'm not taking it personally, I'm an aspiring midwife and one of our biggest troubles is convincing women to breastfeed. Why? Because society considers it gross. The act is gross, the milk is gross, it's all gross and why should we subject ourselves and the others around us to it when we have formula? It's the mentality that frustrates me.
Why must you convince them?
If you don't want to breast feed, then buy formula. Seems to work well for a lot of people.
Urine...it is sterile.
In a pinch, if I absolutely needed to, I could drink it.
But frankly, someone stores it next to my leftover fettucini alfredo, we gonna have some mutha make the beast with two backsin' problems.
I feel similarly about breast milk. It isn't going to kill me most likely but I stilldon't want it stored next to my food.
Personal feelings and may not accurately represent the OPINIONS of others.
That could start a whole other debate on this thread.
Formula is not as good as breastmilk and does not nourish the baby in the same way. I don't want to go into it further for risk of offending people on here that may have used formula because it's a personal choice, nor do I expect anyone who hasn't had a kid or researched these two options to know that.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on September 09, 2009, 10:46:03 AM
Why must you convince them?
If you don't want to breast feed, then buy formula. Seems to work well for a lot of people.
Exactly. But some people also don't believe that you should immunize...
Quote from: NAKID on September 09, 2009, 10:52:59 AM
Exactly. But some people also don't believe that you should immunize...
Yeah, I guess we are all a bunch of dumb hippies that don't know anything about anything and should just go live on our hippie commune sharing breastmilk and not injecting diseases into our kids.
[roll]
I didn't say anything about being hippies or uneducated. If that's what you took it to mean, then that's on you.
The same arguement that you use saying that breastmilk doesn't pose a risk to anyone is very similar to the arguement that I can use that immunizations have and will continue to save lives.
i thought about it and............get a second fridge for the breast milk. i wouldn't want my food sitting next to someones bodily fluids!
Quote from: NeenjaMastah on September 09, 2009, 10:51:02 AM
Formula is not as good as breastmilk and does not nourish the baby in the same way. I don't want to go into it further for risk of offending people on here that may have used formula because it's a personal choice, nor do I expect anyone who hasn't had a kid or researched these two options to know that.
Plenty of healthy and smart people were raised on formula; worked out well for them.
Quote from: NAKID on September 09, 2009, 11:01:24 AM
I didn't say anything about being hippies or uneducated. If that's what you took it to mean, then that's on you.
The same arguement that you use saying that breastmilk doesn't pose a risk to anyone is very similar to the arguement that I can use that immunizations have and will continue to save lives.
As what was said earlier, some take it personally.
shit....my brother must be really screwing his daughter. He fed her formula AND immunized her!!!!!!!
I'm not going into a debate on formula. I'm simply not going there because it's another issue I feel very strongly toward and apparently am in the minority. I don't feel like being attacked even more today.
Tell me how breastmilk could make you sick. Tell me how it's unsanitary. Educate me then. If I had HIV or any other disease that might have a chance of passing through milk, I would not breastfeed. Nor would anyone else. If, by chance, someone's milk spilled on your food and you unknowingly ate it, you will not contract anything. And really, spillage isn't an issue anyway as long as it's stored properly, it probably won't get on your food which is probably also packaged in a sealed container yes?
I'm not saying you should go drink people's breastmilk, I'm only saying having it sealed and packaged in a community fridge should not be a big deal.
Quote from: 13 on September 09, 2009, 10:20:19 AM
I extra kid you not.
:)
Saying it is a health hazard is rationalizing how creepy it could be to someone. Chances are whatever you choose to put into the fridge, then later eat constitutes a bigger health risk. I would guess your chances of catching a case of AIDs from breast milk sharing a shelf with your food is about the same as catching BSE or anthrax from from the carton of cow milk also sitting there minding its own business.
By the line of reasoning used here, anyone with a scrotum or a bladder (also containers for bodily secretions) should stay away from refrigerators, food, kitchens (ahem), etc. I am not in sympathy with the tit Nazis (La Leche League) or anything, but... com'onnn. It is breast milk, not enriched uranium...
Quote from: NeenjaMastah on September 09, 2009, 10:42:19 AM
and one of our biggest troubles is convincing women to breastfeed.
This is really an issue? All of the moms I know breast fed, unless there was a good reason why they were unable.
What difference does it make? You're not going to get cooties from it, she's not forcing you to drink it. [drink] I don't think she should need to change just because you're all not able to deal it.
Quote from: il d00d on September 09, 2009, 11:16:40 AM
:)
Saying it is a health hazard is rationalizing how creepy it could be to someone. Chances are whatever you choose to put into the fridge, then later eat constitutes a bigger health risk. I would guess your chances of catching a case of AIDs from breast milk sharing a shelf with your food is about the same as catching BSE or anthrax from from the carton of cow milk also sitting there minding its own business.
By the line of reasoning used here, anyone with a scrotum or a bladder (also containers for bodily secretions) should stay away from refrigerators, food, kitchens (ahem), etc. I am not in sympathy with the tit Nazis (La Leche League) or anything, but... com'onnn. It is breast milk, not enriched uranium...
I am not saying its a health hazard any more then the same container full of blood and or semen.
I never heard of La Leche League but I think they are a good source of information to new mothers.
Breast milk is the healthiest thing you can give your baby and mothers should know that.
Formula is a substitute but not as good...
Quote from: Triple J on September 09, 2009, 11:20:33 AM
This is really an issue? All of the moms I know breast fed, unless there was a good reason why they were unable.
You'd be surprised.
OK..
Logic and Reason.
(from a person, who deals with machines all day, and must use logic and reason, or gets NO WHERE)
Its HUMAN BODY FLUID.
yes, I know its for babies. Yes boobies are good.. but.
Its still body fluid.
Think about it this way..
what if it was done in the refrigerator at a restaurant? would they be shut down? you bettcha.
a fridge at a resturant is no less important then the one you share with your co-workers.
also, for god sakes, have some consideration. you may like your boobie juice, but the 10 other people who's sammiches are in there may not. take some personal responsibility to not gross every one out and spend the $100 on a mini fridge. seriously.
Directly from the Center for Disease Controls (CDC) website:
http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/qa/qa37.htm (http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/qa/qa37.htm)
These body fluids have been shown to contain high concentrations of HIV:
* blood
* semen
* vaginal fluid
* breast milk
* other body fluids containing blood
Quote from: cyrus buelton on September 09, 2009, 11:33:38 AM
Directly from the Center for Disease Controls (CDC) website:
http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/qa/qa37.htm (http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/qa/qa37.htm)
These body fluids have been shown to contain high concentrations of HIV:
* blood
* semen
* vaginal fluid
* breast milk
* other body fluids containing blood
Apparently what I've been saying has been falling on deaf ears
bet nobody would complain if it was Breast Bacon
[bacon]
jus sayin
If milk freaks you out how do you have sex? Seriously, don't you think you're taking this a bit far? It's just milk.
Quote from: NAKID on September 09, 2009, 09:15:00 AM
Difference between Human breast milk and cow's milk from the store is pastuerization...
Cow's milk from the store is not always pasteurized. You can buy raw milk in "health" food stores.
Oh, another difference? That cow's milk from the store probably has a lot more pus in it than the human milk.
Mmmm... pus and rBST. Delicious.
Quote from: NeenjaMastah on September 09, 2009, 11:35:10 AM
Apparently what I've been saying has been falling on deaf ears
And what I have been saying has too.
I just don't think it is appropriate and you are selectively responding.
Would you mind if I had a jar full of saliva next to your lunch?
No, not really. If it's properly contained and not leaking on other things and if my lunch was in a sealed container as well then there's no risk of it getting on my food. As such, AGAIN, breastmilk won't contain anything harmful because anything that can harm you will harm the baby and therefore the mom wouldn't be breastfeeding.
And I'd probably wonder why you had a jar of spit in the first place. :)
why do you think its inappropriate to have human breast milk in the fridge?
Quote from: He Man on September 09, 2009, 12:11:49 PM
why do you think its inappropriate to have human breast milk in the fridge?
It is a bodily fluid and could contain HIV (see CDC link and others I posted).
Quote from: NeenjaMastah on September 09, 2009, 12:10:21 PM
No, not really. If it's properly contained and not leaking on other things and if my lunch was in a sealed container as well then there's no risk of it getting on my food. As such, AGAIN, breastmilk won't contain anything harmful because anything that can harm you will harm the baby and therefore the mom wouldn't be breastfeeding.
And I'd probably wonder why you had a jar of spit in the first place. :)
What if the Mom didn't know she had HIV?
I'd say nobody in this place has had a HIV test recently (nor have I since I was a vol. fireman about 10yrs ago)
FYI...... the mommy milk issue will soon go away.
plans are in the works to tax mothers milk and pepsi
I donno about you, but I used to drink that shit all dayâ€"right out of the tap.
I'm having a hard time imagining how milk that was squeezed out of a filthy animal's crotch sac is less disgusting than something that was made by a beautiful pair of boobies (and is actually intended for human consumption). ???
Quote from: cyrus buelton on September 09, 2009, 12:15:45 PM
It is a bodily fluid and could contain HIV (see CDC link and others I posted).
So how do you feel about diabetics testing their blood sugar and injecting themselves with insulin while at work?
Quote from: somegirl on September 09, 2009, 12:20:40 PM
So how do you feel about diabetics testing their blood sugar and injecting themselves with insulin while at work?
there probably not leaving there needles next to your cold pizza.
I have a good friend who's seriously diabetic. He keeps the needles out of sight and goes into the restroom to give himself a shot. he keeps the old needles in the bag with his supplies, and disposes them at home.
I was about to make the point that Cyrus just did. Not all who have HIV are aware they are carrying that disease. And unless specifically asked, the blood tests cover "normal" STDs and don't include HIV, Hep or some of the other more exotic and less common diseases.
Or even after the fact...plenty of pregnant women still have sex...and the likelihood of using a condom significantly drops because the "damage" is already done. But the chances of STDs including HIV increase. OMG, GASP, you mean there MAY be dishonest people out there claiming they are clean having sex with people who believe them??!!?! UNPOSSIBLE I SAY!!!
Seriously, hospitals treat breast milk the same way they treat blood, urine, stool, bile, etc. It is all considered a POTENTIAL biohazard.
And as long as there is the potential, then I am of the opinion that it should be treated as such.
And for the record, I think breastfeeding is a completely beautiful and natural act.
Pumping and storing the shit for later use, now that creeps me the make the beast with two backs out.
(Yes, I am completely aware that the same thing is done with cow milk but I also damn near faint when I see a needle even if it is for someone else so [cheeky] )
Quote from: somegirl on September 09, 2009, 12:20:40 PM
So how do you feel about diabetics testing their blood sugar and injecting themselves with insulin while at work?
My company makes insulin pumps which you wear, therefore, no need to test and inject [thumbsup]
For those that haven't moved to a pump:
that is what those red bio hazard containers are used for.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on September 09, 2009, 12:27:46 PM
My company makes insulin pumps which you wear, therefore, no need to test and inject [thumbsup]
I'm very familiar with insulin pumps and there is a definite need to test if you are on a pump.
sorry, I'll stop threadjacking now.
Most women are tested for HIV in a routine blood test that is recommended by the CDC. There is also a heel stick done on babies shortly after birth to test for it and other potential diseases. If you are pregnant or had a baby, there is a pretty good chance you know about it.
jud,
don't click this link
http://www.lactation-porn.com/ (http://www.lactation-porn.com/)
Quote from: somegirl on September 09, 2009, 12:29:13 PM
I'm very familiar with insulin pumps and there is a definite need to test if you are on a pump.
sorry, I'll stop threadjacking now.
I thought the pumps tested for you? I am not in marketing or sales, just thought I recall hearing that once during a conversation with someone.
threadjacking is fine with me [thumbsup]
Psst. I have 3 kids. I know the routine. In fact went to EVERY OB/GYN for my youngest 2 and most of the ones for oldest.
And I also asked about the blood tests and HIV is ONLY performed if there is a risk factor in the mother's (or father's for that matter) history or it is specifically requested. The heel stick is not used to test for HIV btw...it is used for various genetic tests.
Quote
The neonatal heel prick is a common procedure for taking a blood sample from the heel of newborn infants. A pinprick puncture is made in the heel of the infant's foot, and blood from the foot is soaked into pre-printed collection cards known as Guthrie cards.[1]
The blood samples can be used for a variety of genetic tests, including:
Thyroid stimulating hormone (TSH) to detect hypothyroidism and hence prevent cretinism.
Trypsin to detect cystic fibrosis.
Detection of phenylketonuria, an enzyme deficiency that can impair brain development.
Other potential tests include:
A test for galactosemia
It is recommended that the screening test be performed when the infant is between 48 and 72 hours of age. False positives and negatives can sometimes occur when the screening tests are performed before 48 hours.[2]
With genetic tests becoming more common, a wide variety of tests may use the blood drawn by this method. Many neonatal units (SCBUs) now use this method to carry out the daily blood tests (blood count, electrolytes) required to check the progress of ill neonates.
In the UK the NHS test for:
Hypothyroidism
Cystic fibrosis
Phenylketonuria (PKU)
Medium Chain Acyl Co-A Dehydrogenase Deficiency (MCADD)
Sickle Cell [3]
Quote from: ZLTFUL on September 09, 2009, 12:43:08 PM
Psst. I have 3 kids. I know the routine. In fact went to EVERY OB/GYN for my youngest 2 and most of the ones for oldest.
And I also asked about the blood tests and HIV is ONLY performed if there is a risk factor in the mother's (or father's for that matter) history or it is specifically requested. The heel stick is not used to test for HIV btw...it is used for various genetic tests.
If I recall, Neenja used a midwife at a non-hospital setting, so the procedures could drastically be different.
This thread has gone off the deep end with what-if scenarios. [roll]
Even if the breast milk did have HIV (not very likely)...it still doesn't pose a risk unless you ingest it, or somehow introduce it into your blood supply. Same goes for any other disease....it's in a container.
Quote from: Triple J on September 09, 2009, 12:50:20 PM
Even if the breast milk did have HIV (not very likely)...it still doesn't pose a risk unless you ingest it, or somehow introduce it into your blood supply. Same goes for any other disease....it's in a container.
a two-dollar rubbermaid 2qt water bottle is not what I would call a "safe container"
Quote from: Triple J on September 09, 2009, 12:50:20 PM
This thread has gone off the deep end with what-if scenarios. [roll]
Even if the breast milk did have HIV (not very likely)...it still doesn't pose a risk unless you ingest it, or somehow introduce it into your blood supply. Same goes for any other disease....it's in a container.
The point being is that communal refridgerators are notorious for things getting knocked about and spilled. How is that breast milk soaked pizza you were hoping to have for lunch? Oops...turns out Molly (fictional (o)(o) milk provider) has Hep C and her milk was infected...you didn't eat that pizza did you? You did? Say hi to Pam Anderson for me.
Why was your pizza uncovered? It may be just me, but whenever I had food in the community fridge I had it in containers with my name on it. A. So People wouldn't take it, B. so nothing got spilled on it.
Who hasn't ordered a pizza when working late some night and then thought to themselves the next day, HEY! I put that pizza box in the fridge last night! Score!!! Lunch! Last time I checked, cardboard was not a hermetically sealed bio-container.
Besides, I am just arguing for the sake of arguing. I hate winning internet arguments. It's like winning at the Special Olympics.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on September 09, 2009, 12:51:51 PM
a two-dollar rubbermaid 2qt water bottle is not what I would call a "safe container"
Where's it going to go??
Quote from: ZLTFUL on September 09, 2009, 12:54:19 PM
The point being is that communal refridgerators are notorious for things getting knocked about and spilled. How is that breast milk soaked pizza you were hoping to have for lunch? Oops...turns out Molly (fictional (o)(o) milk provider) has Hep C and her milk was infected...you didn't eat that pizza did you? You did? Say hi to Pam Anderson for me.
Then don't eat the pizza...you'd be able to tell it was spilled on. If you bring your leftovers in a plastic container then it is a non-issue anyway.
I'm not saying there aren't legitimate health concerns, but the odds would seem to be extremely low that something would occur...and even those risks can be mitigated with a little common sense.
Do you people just lay unwrapped sandiwches/pizza on the fridge rack...next to some breast milk...which
may be contaminated.
Quote from: il d00d on September 09, 2009, 11:16:40 AM...a scrotum or a bladder... (also containers for bodily secretions)
I don't think you know how scrota work...
Maybe you're thinking of seminal vesicles?
Quote from: cyrus buelton on September 09, 2009, 12:07:54 PM
Would you mind if I had a jar full of saliva next to your lunch?
I'm with NM on this: no, I wouldn't. I mind wonder why in the hell you had a jar full of saliva, but I can't think of any earthly possibility that there's anything in the saliva that could somehow bore through the jar and weasel its way through the plastic zippy bag containing my beloved sammich.
Quote from: Triple J on September 09, 2009, 01:05:16 PM
Where's it going to go??
Then don't eat the pizza...you'd be able to tell it was spilled on. If you bring your leftovers in a plastic container then it is a non-issue anyway.
I'm not saying there aren't legitimate health concerns, but the odds would seem to be extremely low that something would occur...and even those risks can be mitigated with a little common sense.
Do you people just lay unwrapped sandiwches/pizza on the fridge rack...next to some breast milk...which may be contaminated.
As Zltful said, community fridges are a trainwreck, at least mine is.
People knock stuff over all the time, shit gets spilled, etc.
My concern would be it gets knocked over, spills, and then it never gets cleaned up.
I don't have proper hazmat protection (read: laytex gloves) to clean it up, as there is no way I am touching someone else's bodily fluid without proper protection.
My wife's reaction to the thread:
"That's some nasty shit. I don't store my urine in the fridge, why would that be stored there? It is a bodily fluid. That is why we have a lactation room at work with a private fridge"
Quote from: cyrus buelton on September 09, 2009, 01:21:01 PM
My wife's reaction to the thread:
"That's some nasty shit. I don't store my urine in the fridge, why would that be stored there? It is a bodily fluid. That is why we have a lactation room at work with a private fridge"
Game, set and match! Looks like Cyrus won at the Special Olympics!
Quote from: acalles on September 09, 2009, 11:29:43 AM
OK..
Logic and Reason.
(from a person, who deals with machines all day, and must use logic and reason, or gets NO WHERE)
Its HUMAN BODY FLUID.
yes, I know its for babies. Yes boobies are good.. but.
Its still body fluid.
Think about it this way..
what if it was done in the refrigerator at a restaurant? would they be shut down? you bettcha.
a fridge at a resturant is no less important then the one you share with your co-workers.
also, for god sakes, have some consideration. you may like your boobie juice, but the 10 other people who's sammiches are in there may not. take some personal responsibility to not gross every one out and spend the $100 on a mini fridge. seriously.
flawed logic.
betcha that 99% of the stuff in your work fridge would ALSO get the restaurant shut down for health violation
Quote from: acalles on September 09, 2009, 12:24:19 PMthere probably not leaving there needles next to your cold pizza.
Actually, they're sure as heck leaving their insulin in the fridge. I can't prove they don't keep a needle in their desk and re-use it, which means it's remotely conceivable that vial could have a virus or two floating around in it.
Just for purposes of disclosure, we kept our dead cat in the freezer side of our fridge all winter since the ground was too hard to bury her. I've eaten my lunch in the autopsy suite and the gross anatomy lab. I've also eaten in the Emergency Department, where I doubt there is any surface that hasn't been contaminated by the 4 P's.
I've got a zillion times more risk of becoming ill from eating cheese in France than eating food out of a fridge that contains properly-contained stool samples and lunches. I eat cheese in France every chance I get.
Yes, there are regulations about storage and handling of body fluids in hospitals. Are we now prepared to argue that every regulation exists for good and reasonable purposes, is based on sound reasoning rather than emotional responses, and should be followed to the letter no matter what? Really? No, I didn't think so. Before anyone asks, it is officially perfectly fine to store human breast milk in the same hospital fridges as any other food as long as the milk in question isn't a clinical specimen (e.g., sent for culture).
Quote from: ZLTFUL on September 09, 2009, 01:25:17 PM
Game, set and match! Looks like Cyrus won at the Special Olympics!
I do probably belong there.
Quote from: herm on September 09, 2009, 01:26:35 PM
betcha that 99% of the stuff in your work fridge would ALSO get the restaurant shut down for health violation
Ain't that the truth.
I think there is still some BBQ sauce in there from a christmas party last year.........
this thread is dumb.
<checks out>
I invented (in my head)..... a refrigerator for offices. it's sectioned off like mini school lockers.
Quote from: bobspapa on September 09, 2009, 01:33:22 PM
I invented (in my head)..... a refrigerator for offices. it's sectioned off like mini school lockers.
I will bet you there is a real market for this. Patent your idea immediately before you see an ad for this product and have to live with the regrets.
Quote from: mstevens on September 09, 2009, 01:39:28 PM
I will bet you there is a real market for this. Patent your idea immediately before you see an ad for this product and have to live with the regrets.
whats one more regret [laugh]
Quote from: mstevens on September 09, 2009, 01:27:19 PM
Just for purposes of disclosure, we kept our dead cat in the freezer side of our fridge all winter since the ground was too hard to bury her.
well, see, your a weirdo..
if my cat dies in the winter, I'll take her to the place where they cremate them. hell, thats gonna happen if she dies in the summer.
the dog I'll just flush down the toilet. [laugh]
Somehow equating urine and breast milk? That's some seriously messed-up shit. Despite what many Americans have apparently come to believe, life doesn't come shrink-wrapped and hermetically sealed. It's messy, sticky, sometimes smelly, and inconvenient in many ways. We are all constantly exposed to other people's bodily fluids and excretions all the time even if we don't realize it. Somehow, miraculously, we've managed to survive.
My personal opinion is that this all comes back to "boobies," as opposed to breasts. For various reasons we've come to view them as all sorts of things they're not. If we're going to succeed in holding on to that distorted perception, we have to divorce them in our thoughts from what they really are and what (and whom) they're really there for.
How a bunch of people who ride motorcycles can seriously entertain the belief that milk is dangerous enough to give even a moment's thought to boggles my mind, and I spend my working life deep in the boggle zone and thought I had heard it all.
Quote from: herm on September 09, 2009, 01:26:35 PM
flawed logic.
betcha that 99% of the stuff in your work fridge would ALSO get the restaurant shut down for health violation
nah..
all my fridge has is beer and Gatorade..
and about 5 pounds of ice built up on top.
Quote from: mstevens on September 09, 2009, 01:45:36 PM
Somehow equating urine and breast milk? That's some seriously messed-up shit. Despite what many Americans have apparently come to believe, life doesn't come shrink-wrapped and hermetically sealed. It's messy, sticky, sometimes smelly, and inconvenient in many ways. We are all constantly exposed to other people's bodily fluids and excretions all the time even if we don't realize it. Somehow, miraculously, we've managed to survive.
My personal opinion is that this all comes back to "boobies," as opposed to breasts. For various reasons we've come to view them as all sorts of things they're not. If we're going to succeed in holding on to that distorted perception, we have to divorce them in our thoughts from what they really are and what (and whom) they're really there for.
How a bunch of people who ride motorcycles can seriously entertain the belief that milk is dangerous enough to give even a moment's thought to boggles my mind, and I spend my working life deep in the boggle zone and thought I had heard it all.
[clap] couldn't have said it better myself
Quote from: bobspapa on September 09, 2009, 01:44:31 PM
whats one more regret [laugh]
Yeah, but you could be the regretful but rich inventor of the Locker Fridge that everyone else wishes they'd thought of.
Quote from: mstevens on September 09, 2009, 01:45:36 PM
Somehow equating urine and breast milk? That's some seriously messed-up shit. Despite what many Americans have apparently come to believe, life doesn't come shrink-wrapped and hermetically sealed. It's messy, sticky, sometimes smelly, and inconvenient in many ways. We are all constantly exposed to other people's bodily fluids and excretions all the time even if we don't realize it. Somehow, miraculously, we've managed to survive.
My personal opinion is that this all comes back to "boobies," as opposed to breasts. For various reasons we've come to view them as all sorts of things they're not. If we're going to succeed in holding on to that distorted perception, we have to divorce them in our thoughts from what they really are and what (and whom) they're really there for.
How a bunch of people who ride motorcycles can seriously entertain the belief that milk is dangerous enough to give even a moment's thought to boggles my mind, and I spend my working life deep in the boggle zone and thought I had heard it all.
When you thought you've heard it all, someone throws a new one at you.
the milk - urine comparison was sarcastic, but the fact is, she agrees with me on the milk in the fridge deal.
I grew up in a medical family, I was a volunteer fireman for a few years, I know what is out there. I remember my dad coming home from work on numerous occasions in a suit, with a white undershirt on under it. He had to throw his shirt away because it got splattered with blood somehow.
Quote from: mstevens on September 09, 2009, 01:45:36 PM
How a bunch of people who ride motorcycles can seriously entertain the belief that milk is dangerous enough to give even a moment's thought to boggles my mind,
Exactly.
This is so low on my risk radar that it is just about inconceivable.
Maybe I just think too much like an engineer. There are risks with
everything...being able to recognize the severity of the risk is key.
I also don't think breast milk is gross. It's milk...big deal.
Placenta in the fridge.... now that's something to be cranky over.
Quote from: bobspapa on September 09, 2009, 01:57:18 PM
Placenta in the fridge.... now that's something to be cranky over.
Delicious! (http://www.twilightheadquarters.com/placenta.html)
Quote from: cyrus buelton on September 09, 2009, 01:53:00 PMthe milk - urine comparison was sarcastic
This wasn't aimed at you. Several people made the analogy.
Quote from: mstevens on September 09, 2009, 01:45:36 PM
How a bunch of people who ride Ducati motorcycles can seriously entertain the belief that milk is dangerous enough to give even a moment's thought to boggles my mind, and I spend my working life deep in the boggle zone and thought I had heard it all.
Fixed it for ya. Therein lies the reason. ;)
Quote from: NeenjaMastah on September 09, 2009, 12:33:54 PM
Most women are tested for HIV in a routine blood test that is recommended by the CDC. There is also a heel stick done on babies shortly after birth to test for it and other potential diseases. If you are pregnant or had a baby, there is a pretty good chance you know about it.
Hey Neenja, the tests are usually for PKU and electrolytes. I've never worked anywhere that babies or mothers are routinely tested for HIV. In fact, I cannot just come into your room and draw blood for an HIV test. There are specific consent forms required above and beyond the norm. I understand that you are saying HIV transmission isn't a consideration in the USA, but how many HIV patients have you taken care of? 20 years in healthcare and I can honestly say I've taken care of thousands. That isn't counting all the other body-fluid bourne pathogens like hepatitis.
If she is asymptomatic, usually we find out the mother has HIV several months into a child's life, usually around 8 or 9, when the baby's health is failing. We rule out many other conditions usually before HIV tests are performed. While the level of HIV, hepatitis, etc, is lower here than Haiti or parts of Africa, it most definitely exists, and in numbers enough where people might not want their sandwich next to somebody else's body fluids in the fridge, even if that body fluid is nourishing their child. If there is no breastmilk refrigerator available to mothers, I'd much rather see her keep the milk sealed and then placed in a second sealed lunch bag or something. Heck, I am routinely tested for all kinds of nasty cooties because of my job, and I still make people wear gloves when sticking me for blood, even though I always test negative. There are ways of being discreet and keeping everyone happy and safe - babies and coworkers.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on September 09, 2009, 12:42:47 PM
I thought the pumps tested for you? I am not in marketing or sales, just thought I recall hearing that once during a conversation with someone.
threadjacking is fine with me [thumbsup]
Ok :)
There is only one pump available with continuous glucose monitoring, and that technology is not nearly as accurate as the fingerstick type blood glucose tests. That particular system has to be calibrated with fingerstick measurements a few times a day. The other pumps can't do any reading of glucose, they are just a controlled delivery device.
Even though you still have to test, pumps are far better therapy than insulin injections for most people, unfortunately many insurance plans do not cover them. :(
Quote from: Nitewaif on September 09, 2009, 02:41:58 PM
Hey Neenja, the tests are usually for PKU and electrolytes. I've never worked anywhere that babies or mothers are routinely tested for HIV. In fact, I cannot just come into your room and draw blood for an HIV test. There are specific consent forms required above and beyond the norm. I understand that you are saying HIV transmission isn't a consideration in the USA, but how many HIV patients have you taken care of? 20 years in healthcare and I can honestly say I've taken care of thousands. That isn't counting all the other body-fluid bourne pathogens like hepatitis.
If she is asymptomatic, usually we find out the mother has HIV several months into a child's life, usually around 8 or 9, when the baby's health is failing. We rule out many other conditions usually before HIV tests are performed. While the level of HIV, hepatitis, etc, is lower here than Haiti or parts of Africa, it most definitely exists, and in numbers enough where people might not want their sandwich next to somebody else's body fluids in the fridge, even if that body fluid is nourishing their child. If there is no breastmilk refrigerator available to mothers, I'd much rather see her keep the milk sealed and then placed in a second sealed lunch bag or something. Heck, I am routinely tested for all kinds of nasty cooties because of my job, and I still make people wear gloves when sticking me for blood, even though I always test negative. There are ways of being discreet and keeping everyone happy and safe - babies and coworkers.
I won't disagree with you here, but I do know that during my first two pre-natal appointments with a doctor I was asked about my sexual history and then offered the regular blood draw. My doctor explained to me that they will recommend HIV tests based on sexual history and if they feel it's necessary. When I transferred to the midwife, before she was aware I had blood drawn with the doctor she asked if I wanted to and if I wanted them to test for HIV. I assumed that most doctors would do it this way as a precaution, I had already planned on doing it this way once I start my midwifery practice. I must have been wrong about the heel stick, I though she had said they were doing an HIV test but I was also fresh out of giving birth so my memory is a little hazy. :)
I personally do not see a problem with having breast milk in a sealed container. It's not a good idea to have your food unprotected anyway if it's in a community fridge, people might cough on it while digging their own food out or god knows what else will happen to it. If the milk is in a sealed container and your food is in a sealed container I personally don't see any issue.
Quote from: bobspapa on September 09, 2009, 01:57:18 PM
Placenta in the fridge.... now that's something to be cranky over.
Come on Joel, that's not disgusting! Some cultures eat the placenta. Who are you to judge what other people consider food?
;D
Oh, and +1 to nitewaif. The heel stick doesn't provide anywhere near enough blood to do an HIV test. Plus, professional HIV tests are performed on serum, so the blood would need to be spun down. Normal hematocrit is 37-52% (female 37-47 male 42-50) so that would yield about half of the blood from a heel stick as serum. Normal capillary tubes used for heel sticks are around .1cc...
http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/qa/qa35.htm (http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/qa/qa35.htm)
Quote
HIV is unable to reproduce outside its living host (unlike many bacteria or fungi, which may do so under suitable conditions), except under laboratory conditions; therefore, it does not spread or maintain infectiousness outside its host.
They are referring to dried specimens in that article, not fresh breastmilk, just saying...
Quote from: NAKID on September 09, 2009, 03:11:15 PM
They are referring to dried specimens in that article, not fresh breastmilk, just saying...
Can it live in refridgerated breast milk? I'm assuming all of the HIV transfer cases in the Africa study were straight from the tap.
Quote from: Mad Duc on September 09, 2009, 03:07:43 PM
http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/qa/qa35.htm (http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/qa/qa35.htm)
I don't want to add any fuel to arguments that breast milk is dangerous, but...
The host for HIV is actually human white blood cells. Those are present in milk, so it can remain potentially infectious for a while outside the body. HIV is pretty wimpy. My wife was an AIDS molecular biologist when we worked at the medical school and says it's hard to keep it "alive."
Quote from: mstevens on September 09, 2009, 03:15:17 PM
I don't want to add any fuel to arguments that breast milk is dangerous, but...
The host for HIV is actually human white blood cells. Those are present in milk, so it can remain potentially infectious for a while outside the body. HIV is pretty wimpy. My wife was an AIDS molecular biologist when we worked at the medical school and says it's hard to keep it "alive."
HAHAHAHA!!!!
I WIN I WIN I TOLD YOU ALL!!!
NOW I AM THE RETAR...er hey...wait... ???
BTW, lighten up people.
You make the beast with two backsers all take yourselves WAY too seriously.
Hell. I breastfed until I was 27. Then they started arresting me for it.
27 years? My lips get numb after a few minutes... [laugh]
Whats better than a placenta lasagna washed down with some fresh breastmilk?
Quote from: NeenjaMastah on September 09, 2009, 03:00:33 PM
I won't disagree with you here, but I do know that during my first two pre-natal appointments with a doctor I was asked about my sexual history and then offered the regular blood draw. My doctor explained to me that they will recommend HIV tests based on sexual history and if they feel it's necessary. When I transferred to the midwife, before she was aware I had blood drawn with the doctor she asked if I wanted to and if I wanted them to test for HIV. I assumed that most doctors would do it this way as a precaution, I had already planned on doing it this way once I start my midwifery practice.
Sounds like you had good docs, Neenja. [thumbsup] I wish this happened across the board so we could diagnose and start treating the babies who have HIV so much sooner.
Quote from: rgramjet on September 09, 2009, 04:20:43 PM
Whats better than a placenta lasagna washed down with some fresh breastmilk?
A nice breastmilk derived crème brûlée would make a great dessert paired with that. [wine]
Jeffrey Dahmer wouldn't have objected.
Have been recently through the breast milk phase with a 2 year old and still in it with a 8 month old. It is the best thing for the mother and child in my opinion, but having said that, I would not be happy with a co-workers supply sitting next to my lunch bag in the company cooler. Not really sure why, more of a privacy thing than a hygiene I guess.
mitt
what's funny is that Jud isn't objecting to the other coworker who is storing sperm samples in the fridge for his wife's in vitro fertilization...
Quote from: cyrus buelton on September 09, 2009, 06:54:06 AM
Instead of threadjacking Neenja's pole dancing thread, figured a new topic should be started.
Yes, I find it repulsive that my lunch or beverage has to sit next to a container containing human bodily fluid.
How would you like some of my bodily fluid sitting next to your lunch? I am guessing you wouldn't.
The women at work already get a pumping room, why can't they just buy a 80$ fridge to put in there?
As for storing my lunch elsewhere..........this isn't an option as that is the only fridge on my side of the building.
Quit being a 'phobe'...
Every make the beast with two backsing thing bothers you. [roll]
Quote from: cyrus buelton on September 09, 2009, 06:54:06 AM
The women at work already get a pumping room, why can't they just buy a 80$ fridge to put in there?
i see what the problem is...
you want a pumping room for the guys.
weirdo.
Quote from: ducpainter on September 09, 2009, 05:53:05 PM
Quit being a 'phobe'...
Every make the beast with two backsing thing bothers you. [roll]
Roll all you want.
I am not the only one here that finds an issue with what I posted.
I don't need others to support my feelings on the topic.
Apparently it is an "issue" when someone goes against the grain.
Did it in a meeting today and after I aired my issue, it was amazing how many people spoke out. Shit, I guess in a manager's meeting it takes one person to say "senior management doesn't appreciate nor have they acknowledged the work our facility has done."
Que the flood gates to open into 40 minutes of others feeling the same way.
Trust me, I am not the only one that has objected to this practice (milk in fridge) at work.
Quote from: ducatiz on September 09, 2009, 05:36:11 PM
what's funny is that Jud isn't objecting to the other coworker who is storing sperm samples in the fridge for his wife's in vitro fertilization...
Yes, people are jerking off in the bathroom to fertilize my wife.
That makes next to no sense.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on September 09, 2009, 06:01:02 PM
Yes, people are jerking off in the bathroom to fertilize my wife.
That makes next to no sense.
coworker... his wife...
need i give you grammar lessons too?
dont' you have some pictures of bella to look at?
Quote from: cyrus buelton on September 09, 2009, 06:01:02 PM
Roll all you want.
I am not the only one here that finds an issue with what I posted.
I don't need others to support my feelings on the topic.
Apparently it is an "issue" when someone goes against the grain.
Did it in a meeting today and after I aired my issue, it was amazing how many people spoke out. Shit, I guess in a manager's meeting it takes one person to say "senior management doesn't appreciate nor have they acknowledged the work our facility has done."
Que the flood gates to open into 40 minutes of others feeling the same way.
Trust me, I am not the only one that has objected to this practice (milk in fridge) at work.
Yes, people are jerking off in the bathroom to fertilize my wife.
That makes next to no sense.
Then they're phobic too.
Cow's milk comes from tits too ya know.
Quote from: ducatiz on September 09, 2009, 06:02:21 PM
dont' you have some pictures of bella to look at?
[laugh] [laugh]
You ruined my morning with that email.
That was downright low, dude.
Quote from: ducpainter on September 09, 2009, 06:04:51 PM
Cow's milk comes from tits too ya know.
So would you object to a leftover human burger next to your lunch?
I've never complained about a leftover beef burger next to my lunch.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on September 09, 2009, 06:01:02 PM
I am not the only one here that finds an issue with what I posted.
I don't need others to support my feelings on the topic.
Trust me, I am not the only one that has objected to this practice (milk in fridge) at work.
right. thus the post and now arguments about all the people who support you.
it's an irrational phobia...like elevators and spiders. lots of people freaked out by those too. Doesn't make it normal. But I suppose it gives you one more thing to be unhappy about.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on September 09, 2009, 06:07:47 PM
So would you object to a leftover human burger next to your lunch?
I've never complained about a leftover beef burger next to my lunch.
That is a ludicrous analogy...
and why are we (humans) worse than cows, or dogs, or horses? Many cultures eat those animals.
If the 'material' is wrapped, or in a container it's fine by me.
You are aware you don't get the clap from a toilet seat...
right?
There are several species of spiders that are poisonous. Are you saying now that fear of spiders that could kill you are irrational?
;D
Quote from: ducpainter on September 09, 2009, 06:12:18 PM
You are aware you don't get the clap from a toilet seat...
right?
That's not entirely accurate Nate. Chlamydia is a bacteria that can live outside the body for quite some time and CAN be transmitted by fomites...
Quote from: NAKID on September 09, 2009, 06:14:45 PM
There are several species of spiders that are poisonous. Are you saying now that fear of spiders that could kill you are irrational?
;D
if you are afraid of them when they are sealed in a Tupperware container, yes. [cheeky]
Quote from: Statler on September 09, 2009, 06:10:22 PM
right. thus the post and now arguments about all the people who support you.
it's an irrational phobia...like elevators and spiders. lots of people freaked out by those too. Doesn't make it normal. But I suppose it gives you one more thing to be unhappy about.
[laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh]
Quote from: ducpainter on September 09, 2009, 06:12:18 PM
That is a ludicrous analogy...
and why are we (humans) worse than cows, or dogs, or horses? Many cultures eat those animals.
If the 'material' is wrapped, or in a container it's fine by me.
You are aware you don't get the clap from a toilet seat...
right?
Your right, we are no worse then other cultures.
Some cultures drink their own urine as they feel it has healing power. Neenja posted about Mongolians stealing breast milk as it is a sough after commodity. I chose not to post the urine therapy issue as it is just not applicable as different cultures have different views.
Some Asian countries like to eat dog. That is fine. I have no problem with it. It just isn't a practice in this country, but far be it for me to put down another cultures practice.
I think you should read the entire thread and see my responses.
I agreed with Izaak very early on about how his wife dealt with this situation in her work place. I agreed with it.
Quote from: NAKID on September 09, 2009, 06:16:03 PM
That's not entirely accurate Nate. Chlamydia is a bacteria that can live outside the body for quite some time and CAN be transmitted by fomites...
I wasn't talking about chlamydia Chris.
You're feeding his phobia...
and stirring the pot. ;)
Quote from: ducpainter on September 09, 2009, 06:20:21 PM
I wasn't talking about chlamydia Chris.
You're feeding his phobia...
and stirring the pot. ;)
The pot stirring has been plenty already.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on September 09, 2009, 06:19:05 PM
<snip>
I think you should read the entire thread and see my responses.
...but then I would be able to reply intelligently.
I just want to rag on you for being a baby. ;D
I thought the whole United States was a "melting pot". Shouldn't we all be stirring it?
;D
Quote from: ducpainter on September 09, 2009, 06:23:08 PM
...but then I would be able to reply intelligently.
I just want to rag on you for being a baby. ;D
If I responded to some comments as I would have........
I'd already be perma-banned.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on September 09, 2009, 06:27:04 PM
If I responded to some comments as I would have........
I'd already be perma-banned.
Do you think my replies would justify that?
Quote from: cyrus buelton on September 09, 2009, 06:27:04 PM
If I responded to some comments as I would have........
I'd already be perma-banned.
we're all holding our tongues on this one. All it's done is solidify people's opinions on the topic and on other people. amazing how strong negative opinion threads about hot topics do that.
Quote from: ducpainter on September 09, 2009, 06:29:46 PM
Do you think my replies would justify that?
Nope. Not speaking about you.
Quote from: Statler on September 09, 2009, 06:30:52 PM
we're all holding our tongues on this one. All it's done is solidify people's opinions on the topic and on other people. amazing how strong negative opinion threads about hot topics do that.
It's amazing how your responses in this thread have solidified 6 members to personally email me with their negative opinion of you.
Works both ways, doesn't it?
Quote from: ducpainter on September 09, 2009, 06:12:18 PM
You are aware you don't get the clap from a toilet seat...
right?
wait, it's CLAP?? I thought you could get CRAP from the toilet seat..
Damn Japanese health teacher ... >grumble grumble<
sorry for the Jerry Lewis joke... I just had to...not h8in...
Debates are good for stimulating thought. So far I think this has remained pretty civil considering the strong opinions on both sides...
Quote from: NAKID on September 09, 2009, 06:35:50 PM
Debates are good for stimulating thought. So far I think this has remained pretty civil considering the strong opinions on both sides...
dude, we're talking about lactation, i am very stimulated.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on September 09, 2009, 06:34:43 PM
Nope. Not speaking about you.
It's amazing how your responses in this thread have solidified 6 members to personally email me with their negative opinion of you.
Works both ways, doesn't it?
Only 6?
wow...
Statler is too nice.
Best of DadLabs Season 2 - The Milk Man (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqivKqAkmoI#normal)
Quote from: Statler on September 09, 2009, 06:10:22 PM
it's an irrational phobia...like elevators and spiders. lots of people freaked out by those too. Doesn't make it normal. But I suppose it gives you one more thing to be unhappy about.
What's your definition of "normal"? I haven't kept exact count, but I think about 50% of the people that have replied said that storing milk next to your lunch is not appealing, even though probably safe, including people with actual MD credentials.
Maybe it should have been a poll instead of a thread?
mitt
Quote from: mitt on September 09, 2009, 06:42:45 PM
What's your definition of "normal"? <snip>
mitt
I'm normal.
Everyone that disagrees with me isn't. ;D
Quote from: cyrus buelton on September 09, 2009, 06:34:43 PM
It's amazing how your responses in this thread have solidified 6 members to personally email me with their negative opinion of you.
Works both ways, doesn't it?
I never said it didn't. I fully expect when anyone, including myself, express opinions about topics that they have strong feelings about then some people will agree and some won't. those who won't will dislike both the opinion and the manner in which it was stated.
I am perfectly ok with people who email you in their dislike for me. It's likely people I would not get along with as we look at things differently anyway. Not everyone has to be all buddy buddy. Nothing amazing about that at all.
What'd you expect, Jud? you posted that something many people find to be one of the most important things in life, and one they have fought to be able to continue to do while still working to earn a living, simply repulsed you. You set the thread up to be controversial and strongly opinionated. You're on one end and I'm on another.
That six people on the internet email you their negative opinion of me surprises me in the low number only. Perhaps you guys can start a listserve to bash people you are better than, complain and whine about things, and tell off-color jokes....wait...that happened already.
Quote from: mitt on September 09, 2009, 06:42:45 PM
What's your definition of "normal"? I haven't kept exact count, but I think about 50% of the people that have replied said that storing milk next to your lunch is not appealing, even though probably safe, including people with actual MD credentials.
Maybe it should have been a poll instead of a thread?
mitt
Thanks, Mitt.
That makes too much sense to some who love to consistently disagree with anything I post.
Quote from: mitt on September 09, 2009, 06:42:45 PM
What's your definition of "normal"? I haven't kept exact count, but I think about 50% of the people that have replied said that storing milk next to your lunch is not appealing, even though probably safe, including people with actual MD credentials.
Maybe it should have been a poll instead of a thread?
mitt
true. I did comment early on that I am saddened by the sterilized drift away from what has to be one of the most normal things humans do. breast feeding and the issues surrounding it freak people out. That is pathetic to me. I know I am on one end of this one.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on September 09, 2009, 06:50:25 PM
Thanks, Mitt.
That makes too much sense to some who love to consistently disagree with anything I post.
yup...I form my opinions simply to counter yours. you complete me. :-*
Quote from: Statler on September 09, 2009, 06:48:03 PM
Perhaps you guys can start a listserve to bash people you are better than, complain and whine about things, and tell off-color jokes....wait...that happened already.
Really Chris? That needed to be posted here?
Quote from: cyrus buelton on September 09, 2009, 06:50:25 PM
Thanks, Mitt.
That makes too much sense to some who love to consistently disagree with anything I post.
I only consistently disagree 'cuz you're consistently wrong. :-*
Quote from: NAKID on September 09, 2009, 06:52:34 PM
Really Chris? That needed to be posted here?
that was warranted Chris
Quote from: Statler on September 09, 2009, 06:48:03 PM
I never said it didn't. I fully expect when anyone, including myself, express opinions about topics that they have strong feelings about then some people will agree and some won't. those who won't will dislike both the opinion and the manner in which it was stated.
I am perfectly ok with people who email you in their dislike for me. It's likely people I would not get along with as we look at things differently anyway. Not everyone has to be all buddy buddy. Nothing amazing about that at all.
What'd you expect, Jud? you posted that something many people find to be one of the most important things in life, and one they have fought to be able to continue to do while still working to earn a living, simply repulsed you. You set the thread up to be controversial and strongly opinionated. You're on one end and I'm on another.
That six people on the internet email you their negative opinion of me surprises me in the low number only. Perhaps you guys can start a listserve to bash people you are better than, complain and whine about things, and tell off-color jokes....wait...that happened already.
My thread was not against breast feeding..............it was against it being kept in a public refrigerator at work, next to others food.
That was the point. You took it personally.
Quote from: Statler on September 09, 2009, 06:51:06 PM
true. I did comment early on that I am saddened by the sterilized drift away from what has to be one of the most normal things humans do. breast feeding and the issues surrounding it freak people out. That is pathetic to me. I know I am on one end of this one.
basically everyone in life is either pre-baby or post-baby
there is a short period of time, about a year when you are "baby" while your first one grows past the boob/bottle and you are amazed every time they fart.
but once that passes, it's not news anymore.
my boy would get sick or whatever and i'd freak out. he'd cough in his sleep and we'd call the doc.
now, the girl is not yet 4 months old and i'm surprised we haven't started giving her an allowance and sending her to the store for beer. you just get over being barfed, shit, pissed, spit, sneezed, hacked and barfed (yes, twice) on. titty milk is about the most benign thing on earth (except when it goes bad and then it is like toxic waste....)
jud is just pre-baby. he doens't know. Pity him in a way, but also envy him, since he knows none of the above, plus sleepless nights and worrying about the next time your kid barfs in his sleep for no damn reason and wakes up in his own vomit screaming. (yes, they do that.. here, have a condom...)
This topic is going nowhere good.
Probably the only thread in recent memory to hit 5+ pages in less than day besides the MJ thread.
Done. Locked.
PM if you want to continue conversation.