Ducati Monster Forum

Any of my fellow Queenslanders see the article in the Courier Mail yesterday? (Yes, I know it's the courier Mail and anything in it should not be taken at face value), it was about the push to save us motorcycle riders from ourselves, usual crap about doubling of injuries and fatalities over X amount of time.

Anyhow, the push apparently is on for some sort of transponder instead of a front number plate and .00 blood alcohol limit.
Apparently compulsory minimum clothing requirements would be too difficult to police.(why?)
There was also some dick from the "United motorcycle council" (whoever the make the beast with two backs they are) saying that he supported the .00 as we all need to be in tip top form when we're on our bikes. WTF?!! I suppose anyone in a car doesn't have to be.

Oh yes, here's the link (wasn't there yesterday)
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,26078512-952,00.html (http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,26078512-952,00.html)

gee it just get better for you guys up there, i would start packing now and move south.

Please explain to me how some make the beast with two backswit decided forward facing Cameras was the only way to go for speed cameras, surely in a country where every motorbike has only a rear number plate, some bright spark would have thought of that before placing an order for the Camera systems.

Victoria did the same thing. I personally don't have an issue with the 0 blood alcohol limit (I don't drink) but the Transponder thing is insane.

Why not fix the poor roads, the crap drivers, Get the cops out of the Speed camera vans and into highway patrol cars and do some good out there.

This State is run by a bunch of Retards, I don't think any state is any better.

This whole country is starting to become the the Nanny Country

It's just make the beast with two backsed!

As much as this hurts to say this........ :( :-[

WE VOTE FOR THESE FREAKING LOSERS!!  [roll] :o [puke]

The thing to remember is that no matter what government is in power, the bureacrats and public servants ("Servants"? Thats a joke!)  remain the same!! And thats where these idiotic and make the beast with two backsed ideas come from.  [roll]

I reckon they should all face elections too!! Maybe then they might lift their collective games if they can be given the arse.  [thumbsup]

I was in Vic Roads around the time that Kennet took over down here, and I witnessed the Vic Roads heirarchy blatantly ignoring the Ministers directives because it didnt fit with its (The Corporations  [roll] ) plans and policies.  :o

Scary, aint it??

Like CD I don't have a problem with .0 as I don't drink and ride (except for when OzMonsters from Sydney make me!).  But if it's good enough for bike riders I'd like to see it imposed on all road users - otherwise it's discrimination.

hmmm  thats right discrimination, can't do it to one without doing it to the other

Re-rearward facing cameras,
Bet someone at transurban(Citylink) is spewing they didn't think of that.....

We are discriminated against down here, in case you havent noticed!! :o

What about our so-called "Safety Levy"?? >:( [roll]

Nobody else cops it.  >:(

We (people who choose to ride motorcycles) will always be discriminated against because:

1.  We are a minority group - groups of animals always pick on the one that's different, humans are no different - read Lord of the Flies (or any text by any religion for that matter!)

2.  We are an easy target as the vast majority of non-bike riders are either scared or us, just don't like us, or are jealous of our lifestyle and outlook so take pleasure in trying to keep us down.

Me, a cynic when it comes to the human race????  You betcha.  ;D

your not the only ones it cost more too register my bike than a v8 car  [bang]

Aaah so much cynicsim from one so young and fair!!  ;D [roll] [cheeky]

True,  a bit off topic but that reminds me of a night in Vegas a few years back... 

I'm with you Heather.....

And not just with motorcycle crap laws but laws in general are written by f...ck whits who don't know shit about their area of "expertise"............  [bang]

I didn't vote for any of these f...ck whits.... I wrote on my ballot paper that were all f...ck whits....  [puke]  [puke]

im with you big t peace brother  now pass the bong  [laugh]

When I went to vote this last time I was meet at the gate by some guy who was campaigning for his politician brother in law....

He said that I needed to vote for his brother in law to get him off his hands......

I replied "if you don't want him, why the hell would I want to vote for him ???".....

We got into quite a discussion about why he and his brother in law would not get my vote......

I love winding these dudes up......  ;D  [cheeky]

I'm doing this next time!  [thumbsup]

well, here in qld, it just cost me $986 to register my V8 ute with 2 make the beast with two backsing seats! my bike with 2 seats costs $450, and my solo seat bikes cost $240 each.
captain bligh will be shown the door next election. at least i hope so!

The other discussion is about a minimum standard of Safety gear, sad part is to a degree, I can understand why this is coming up, in summer up here the road is littered with Idiots riding in Shorts, T-shirts, Thongs (Footwear, for our American friends) and not much else.
I was riding up the Gillies range last year and was passed by a Tool on an R1 going flat out wearing A Helmet, Shorts and a pair of Sneakers!

The Minimum I ride in is Jeans, Ankle covering lace up Boots, A heavy Polo shirt, Helmet and Gloves. and that is only a gentle ride into town, or into work, if it's a decent ride or going up the local mountain ranges, all the safety gear comes out.

I think if a minimum standard does come in, I think a lot of people will be getting fines up here in the Summer months!

well not so long ago both Betty and i sighted a girl with the shortest tights on with a tight t shirt and sneakers, on a jap superbike in western sydney. she look like a pole dancer to me. Very very wrong to me

she won't look that way for long, statistically speaking.

She looked more like a personal trainer type to me ... not that I was looking.

And I was sitting there feeling a bit lacking on the Lammie with boots & gloves, full face helmet, draggins and amoured leather jacket.

TBH even with all the speed camera/bike discrimination crap the vics and the qlders get, I will still swap governments with you ANY DAY. NSW is currently run by card carrying morons . Like seriously, I reckon we could run an OZmonsters party next election with a slogan of "anyone but these liberal or labour pricks" and we'd hold the balance of power and still be better qualified than some of the plonkers that run ministries round here.

DONT START ME POLOMOTICIANS MAKE ME FKN ANGRY

ahh, that's better.



Next time you see this sort of thing, please call ASAP me and provide GPS coordinates and direction last seen traveling in. Thanks!

*Just some random thoughts*

I'm currently sitting on a friends deck, overlooking a lake in the Great Lakes region of Michigan. I have noticed that even the cars here have no front number plates. Odd that. Seems to be far less stress on "speeding", and in general, people drive fairly sensibly.

Plenty of bikes (although they are Harleys), and doesn't appear to be too much discrimination. In fact, they seem to be quite well liked.

Still, back to the lack of a front number plate...

Z...

"Since 2004, motorcycle fatalities have almost doubled in Queensland, with 54 riders and pillion passengers killed so far this year, compared with 28 the same time five years ago."

MEANINGLESS!

1. The number of riders has increased DRAMATICALLY over the past few years - because of soaring fuel costs. So a gross count of fatalities is useless - you need to look at he percentage of riders killed. Or, if you are serious, percentage of riders killed who have less than 3 years experience.
2. 80% of fatal bike accidents are caused by the car driver. Period.

Finally, why do I get the feeling the gov transponder (which I will have to pay for!!!) will look like this? Should be nigh invisible.

(http://www.statesupply.com/content/col/categories/images/60OldPump.jpg)

As the old saying goes...............

"Lies, damned lies and statistics!!"  [roll]

and the bureaucrats use them very,very selectively!  [evil] >:( [puke]

Statistics can be manipulated to prove any point you want to make.  That's the first thing I learnt when studying Statistics - they even tell you that. Which is why I stop listening as soon as someone says "statistics prove ......" la la la la   ;D

unfortunately, it's not meaningless, 2004 you say? if i'm not wrong i do believe Qride was just kicking off about then? giving bike shops the authority to issue open licenses to anyone with 3 years road experience is tantamount to giving 5 year olds the keys to the local ice creamery! conflict of interest you politicial imbeciles!!!!! of course, these same imbeciles use twisted statistics to serve their purpose, which at the moment seems to either tax us off the road directly or indirectly or turn public opinion about riders to such a low that car drivers will get a discount for killing or maiming us! have you heard the pathetic radio ads about bikes up here?

paul.
p.s cairnsduc, no offense mate, but i reckon you're as silly as the goose in shorts and sneakers for riding without a jacket! yes, i know how humid and hot it gets up there, but do YOU know what 3 months of daily dressing changes and the misery that goes with it does to you, your relationship and the scars you end up with????

we call it because we care Cairns! Buy some perforated leather....or a kevlar polo shirt.  [moto]

does any one remember the chiropracter who cam on here and said he planned on 'wearing a neck brace with a long sleeve shirt'. God that was funny. (turns out the long sleeve shirt was a full torse body armor product).

Oops, I should have specified, The Heavy Polo Shirt is a Draggin Jeans Kevlar Polo Shirt (Kshirt) worn over a Normal T-shirt or Work shirt, So at least in summer I can get to where I'm going, rip it off and be comfy.
It was not cheap, but I found most of the Summer jackets were still to hot.
http://www.dragginjeans.net/product/k-shirt (http://www.dragginjeans.net/product/k-shirt)
I had a slide in one of these Shirts years ago, very little to no impact resistance, but the Kshirt was destroyed, but apart from a few bruises, I was fine.

But that's only to travel to work or to pop over into Gordonvale (little Town just south of Cairns where I now live)
Like I say, if it's a Range ride or cruising for more than 10 mins, The Riding Jacket comes out and the Kshirt goes back in the Cupboard.

I thought he was a neuro-surgeon or something similar :-\



... and if we are reminiscing ... CairnsMan I see that the Spanky nameplate has made a comeback in your sig. Something I am intrigued by, but probably don't really want to know.

Well, I'm registered everywhere else as Spanky or SpankyMK, maybe I should change it here...

except on Netrider, I am Mkey on there, but I rarely ever go to Netrider anymore, seems unless your are in one of the little Cliques, your topics and your posts are ignored.

we've all tried, but your a persistent bastard!!!  ;D



and on that Spanky topic....imagine Gran Turismo with bikes....can't remember the game designers names....but someone should give him a MV Augusta....I'd buy that game!

Well, At least that is nicer than what my mother says about me!  ;D



It's called Tourist Trophy, pretty good game, hopefully they will release a Playstation 3 version.

PS3....you give it a  [thumbsup]

tried a Dosbox 360?

thinking about buying one....although enjoying nintendo 64 at present!

but would like a new system so I can play Skate and Skate II

Hmm, I guess having a truck license I'm already being discriminated against as that means zero alcohol immediately. It appears that they can change rules on various licenses without facing the Anti Discrimination board.

My two bobs worth - no alcohol if you're riding full stop. If I were King for a day I'd actually change the rules to ban all drinking if you're driving, flying or boating. Lets face it, people do stupid things when sober let alone when their tanked.

I also think there should be some guidance on clothing. If you can regulate helmets then jackets, pants and boots should be able to be compulsory. That would ensure testing of the clothes which would provide some level of assurance on  protection.

I've ridden without safety gear and paid the price but was lucky. Now days I'm soft (or smart) and wear safety gear appropriate to any activity - riding, grinding, welding, lawn mowing. Again I learned the hard way - welders flash, metal in eye and rock in eye. Take it from me it's much less painful to wear the stuff than have someone poke in your eye, scrub gravel rash (yes they scrub it good to get it clean) or stitch up various body parts. If you like, my wife can elaborate as she's a nurse in an emergency ward.

You need to get out more, got yourself a bike yet?

Couldn't agree more on the clothing idea, I see soooo many blokes wearing their protective t-shirts and shorts
with the latest riding runners. I just can't get my head around it, you are doing 60-100 kph on board a rice rocket
thinking you're super kool until you hit the deck and loose every bit of skin except what it under your helmet.

I have always thought there should be a minimum clothing rule but then the Leb Boyz (usual t-shrt/short riders)
wouldn't look as  8) out there.
If we can ban smoking in your car with young children surely we can make it mandatory to wear full length clothing.
Anyways, wear it or loose it your choice for now.

Oh but we need front plates for safety (speed cameras revenue) even though it is a dead issue again, till next time.  

Quick Thread jack

Love the PS3, Got a few games, nothing exciting, but the Missus and I collect Movies, and we are buying more BluRay movies now because of the better Picture and Sound, It also helps I'm working for a place that sells the Movies, so whenever a movie comes out that we want, Yoink! add that one to the collection (Even better if it's cheaper on Staff price)  ;D

As much as I like the Idea of getting an Xbox, the amount I have seen coming back to work with the red ring of death is just scary! Microsoft claims they are working to resolve it, but it still amazes me how many walk out the door and are back in the service Dept in under a month!

I just can't bring myself to buy a Wii, to me it would still seem weird to say to people I'm going home to play with my Wee!

Thread Jack Over.

completely agree with clothing....the safety levy was introduced and one of the reasons cited was a higher rate of accidents and greater cost in hospitalisation...then why not introduce a fine to those who wilfully choose to leave themselves susceptible to greater damage (whilst the public picks up the bill).

When you see the damage a road crash can do at 30 - 45kph on a bicycle....the idea of going faster than that on a 200kg motorcycle with the same lack of protection is a pure nightmare scenario.

I don't mind the safety ads too....least I can see where the levy is going (a bit of it I suspect!). Although I could do an entire ad campaign for $200...with 3 static images:

1. Picture of motorcycle. voiceover "love riding your motorbike?"
2. picture of cleavage. Voiceover "love boobies?"
3. picture of gloves. Voiceover "then wear gloves, idiot"

yes, well you guys know what happened to me, and i had my 1 peice leathers on. just need to wear it all the time

Always wear all the gear for any ride (well, nearly always) because even at 60kph a slide down the road can cause way too much damage.



Hang on, I was doing 60 down a hill today on the pushy wearing nothing but lycra.  Bugger!  Now I'm a hypoctrite too. 
Such is life.

That's what scares me about riding the pushy - I feel terribly underdressed for the speeds I do.  But would feel pretty silly (and hot) wearing the amount of gear that I wear on the Monster.

So what's the answer?

Fortunately 60 or 70 is about as fast as it gets on a pushy but that's often as low as it gets on the Monster.
Good tyres, no bunch descents, and going easy in wet weather has too lessen the risks somewhat.

You take all the fun out of things Rob!!   ;D

60 to 70 + bitumen + skin =  :'( everytime.  Luckily I'm only speaking from others' experiences (touch wood).  Think I need to slow down on the pushy a bit.

Did you end up having a favorable result with your (motor)bike?

oops I've threadjacked again.  :o

Bike is in bits at the shop waiting for bearings.  More details on the other thread when it's all back together again.

I wonder if the coppers will be able to still read my bike transponder when its wedged up Captain Bligh's rear end.... which is where half these "rules", "laws" and "safety measures" come from. We should all start up a bike club here, no doubt it'll be dubbed "outlaw" in no time and we won't even be able to phone each other to organise rides....  They can all go and get rooted. I'm still going to keep riding and having fun.

Back from the dead ... resurrected old thread. Sorry but it is kinda related.

Read this article earlier:

http://www.smh.com.au/news/sport/football/a-league/farina-fined-and-disqualified-for-drink-driving/2009/11/02/1257010136580.html (http://www.smh.com.au/news/sport/football/a-league/farina-fined-and-disqualified-for-drink-driving/2009/11/02/1257010136580.html)

... and it had me thinking. Do you think this is fair?

We often complain about speed enforcement, but what do you think about a prominent person copping a $500 fine and a 3 month suspension for a second drink driving offence?

What sort of speeding offence would attract the same punishment? Do you think it is fair?

I don't tend to take a very good view of drink driving - maybe it is just the vulnerability of riding a bike ... but the situation just seemed a bit wrong to me.

I know he lost his job as a consequence (you could say the writing was on the wall there anyway) ... but FFS he is now talking about teaching in schools. There doesn't seem to be much in the way of acceptance on his part either "very sorry and terribly embarrassed" doesn't seem to convey an understanding of the big picture.

Rant, rant, bloody rant.

The punishment seems more apt for a first DUI offence not a second one.

He was way over the limit on his way to his work.  (We have 0.00 at work - if tested postitive for alcohol,  employees are off site & contractors banned)

He's a public figure - supposed role model.

If he drank a whole bottle of chardy plus a couple of glasses of red to himself I think he also has a drinking problem. 

Throw the book at him and take him to AA.

shit thats nothing i used too nock over a couple of bottles of  rum ion a night and never hurt either  [laugh]

Did you drive a vehicle and/or go to work after knocking over the bottles of rum?

I've been known to down a lot too when I was younger but these days I'm trying to get my liver to work for as long as possible. 

i couldn't agree more! all these idiots are concerned about are "appearances" make the beast with two backs how you look to others you dickhead! how about the increased risk of killing someones mum or dad? maiming a child? the law is way too soft on drink driving, they see it as a social curse, not the life threatening reckless behaviour it is. if i had my way ALL offenders would be banned for a year, $2000 fine. 2nd offense? banned for life, car/bike/truck/bus CONFISCATED, for good. caught again? jail, and lots of it, none of this pathetic commumity service, and a paltry fine. farina was making what as a coach? and he got a $500 fine? make the beast with two backs me! even i can come up with that with little effort.
And before any wowsers want to compare it to speeding, don't bother, it's nothing similar, usually when people speed they're enjoying what they're doing and concentrating on it, even if they're not very good drivers they are in more control than the habitual drinker at .05


paul.

i did let my horse take me home one night im glad he new the way through the bush cause i had no idea i just enjoyed the ride , im now a green tea totlerer and only can have a light beer every now and then

agree paul....there should be a 'banned for life' so that a person loses the right to drive....and they need to start taking licenses off people for longer....1 year for a drink driving offence etc.

and licenses should be more extensive and expensive that way people respect it more...

it's true that speed does seem to focus the mind...I experienced it today....I normally have to remind myself to really be paranoid in daily traffic....and really concentrate on everything...but today (being a public holiday) I moved a lot quicker on the road and the brain was very focused and attentive with the sensory stimulus that was provided, I didn't have to focus on being focused, I just was!....on the big highways and dead straight roads in the country they should remove speed limits that way people can find a speed that keeps them alert but that isn't above their skill level. Speed limits cause bad drivers to drive a t a limit that they aren't comfortable with and they think that that is 'safe' whilst removing that number means they'd decide what they feel comfortable with and take into account traffic, weather, road condition etc.

Mostly agree Loonydude and Spiderman.

There was an article in the Herald last week (was the hard copy and I couldn't find it online) which spoke about a proposal for increasing speed limits. It was similar to what you are saying and that on the open road (out of town) the biggest killer is fatigue ... people become inattentive and fatigued because they are bored travelling so slowly at a constant speed.

But like usual, speed is quoted as the major contributor in fatalities and they are right ... if the drunken, skill-less inconsiderate arsehole that fell asleep at the wheel wasn't moving then they wouldn't have killed that young family. One valid question raised in the article was phrased quite well, something like: 'speed may have been a factor, but was the car even exceeding the posted speed limit?'

I'd suggest that most of the time the 'cause of the incident' was not actually the greatest contributor.

Speed is a magnifier.  If you're driving in a way that exceeds the abilities of your car or your driving skills, speed will make it worse.  By itself, it's harmless.  The biggest reason it's the focus of so much government attention is because it's easy: you can create legislation that penalizes drivers exceeding a speed, 'cause it can be measured.    Most other causes of accidents are things that cannot be objectively measured: sloppiness, attentiveness, knowledge of the rules.

I have a fast car and I speed like a demon when it's safe.  I don't do it in traffic, I don't do it on unfamiliar roads or around blind corners.  If I see a straight stretch and visibility's good, I'll wind it up to 180 or faster and I'll smile until I have to slow down.  Am I danger to other drivers?  I don't think so, 'cause I pay attention, I have big Brembo brakes and fat tires with gobs of grip. 

Cops can't gauge my skills, my attentiveness, or my awesomeness.  The only thing they can do, especially without stopping me, is gauge my speed, and when the only tool you have is a hammer...

Well, I'm a shiny blue nail when I'm driving fast, aren't I?

Aww dammit, I'm rambling.

Drunk drivers are antisocial, ignorant bastards, and they should lose their license for a painful time on their first offense.  The second should hurt them a lot more, and if they cause an accident, the penalty if they're found to be drunk should be far more severe.

How the Legal system is make the beast with two backsed up in this Country
I mentioned this when it happened about 6 months ago.

Within 2 days of each other:
1. Young Woman gets Impatient, and runs a red light and hits a Driver going in the other direction who had the right of way, The driver in the right is Killed, she walks away from the Accident.

2. Young Guy, Also go's against the lights and pulls out in front of a Motorcyclist, the poor guy on the bike is killed instantly. (Newly Married)

There punishment: $500 fine and banned from driving for 1 to 2 years. They walk out of court free, They each took a Life!

A guy down South, on a motorbike decides on a perfectly straight clear piece of road at 5 in the morning to open the Throttle and give his bike a Squirt, he does something like 160 or 180 in a 100 zone. He is arrested, He is banned for 3 or 4 years, and put in Jail for a period of time (sorry, can't remember how long exactly)

Now tell me, how in any way shape or form can you respect the legal system when Stupid decisions like this are handed out every day?
These 2 people took a life, and they both walked away with no Consequences, this young guy on the motorbike got put in jail for being a bit stupid, but he hurt no one, The risk was there and he was stupid for doing it.
But in the end no one got hurt, I'm not saying he should not get in trouble for doing a stupid speed on a public road, but Jail time?!?!?

That's why I get so angry about the Road system and the politicians in this country, every thing is so skewed towards speed, at the detriment to every thing else. It's make the beast with two backsed  [bang]

An acquaintance of mine works with anti discrimination law and he has said that in his opinion, that shit that Governments, public officials an indeed the law etc dish out to us would definitely qualify as "discrimination" but..............

because we are not:

!. Gay (I''l' refrain from comment  ;D )

2. Of an Ethnic or religious minority.

3. Female (Motorcyclists as a group!)

4. Koori or Torres Strait Islander.

We are basically NOT covered by the Anti Discrimination Law.

And of course, as our Brothers and Sisters from the U.S. of A. , we have no Bill of Rights either.  >:( [leo] :P [roll]


Aaaah, what a Democracy??  [roll]

my friend gets her blacks back in 2027 , all she did was loose her 12 points she lives woop woop has horse's so cant move drove to work got done drove 2 more got done then a copper off duty seen her car on the road came to her house next day to arrest her court thru it out RTA gave her extra 5 years this all happned in a 4 week period , she wasnt speeding, wasnt drunk just drove when they said she could not how the make the beast with two backs is that hurting annyone , her honda fireblade now sits on her front doorstep she now knows she cant drive or ride or she will go to jail , Fu(k all coppers with a iron pole !!!!!!!!


bsbd  feral

Geez and I thought I had bad karma when it came to getting caught! Just proves there's always someone worse off.  Very harsh punishment considering what a lot of drunks get away with. Did your friend give that off duty cop a knock back in the past?

did you have a bad day feral cause the world would  be be a lot worse without  [leo] i feel for your friend but she should not of driven if you dont like the system complain too the people that make them not the people that have to enfoce them ive worked with a lot  [leo] in marine rescue and ses and even they disagree with the law at times  but they dont deserve that treatment and hope the few that post on here dont think that is the senterment on here  [bang]

Here's some DUI penalties from Nor Cal to compare with your own. Not the toughest in the world but not the most leinient either.

http://www.kandblaw.com/penalty_chart.html (http://www.kandblaw.com/penalty_chart.html)

quote " Fu(k all coppers with a iron pole !!!!!!!!"

A quote from the FAQs and policies board.
2.2.  Posting about religion or politics or cop-talk are allowed on a probationary basis, but limited to the Politics board.   <edit:  this didn't work, so the politics boad is gone.   politics, religion, and cop-bashing  are not allowed>
Having a go at the law makers is fine, ( that was the original intent of this thread) , but dont forget a lot of your fellow board members are coppers too.

Thanks for the comparison D.  Nice to know what happens in other parts of the world.

I think the problem here in Oz is that there is no consistency in punishment.  ie Joe nobody gets the book thrown at him for being a bit reckless BUT not hurting anybody. Whereas Mr Celebrity in the Public eye can get away with potential murder by driving drunk and getting a fine that wouldn't even dent the budget. And more publicity as it's published in all the papers (no such thing as bad publicity for a celebrity is there?)

And to clarify - it's not the police who had out these lenient punishments, it's the courts.  But it's the police who decide whether and what to charge the offender with.

And I do like the coppers who visit with us here.  :-*

Maybe Australia should adopt the Finnish model.
http://www.globalmotors.net/finnish-millionaire-gets-111888-euro-speeding-ticket/ (http://www.globalmotors.net/finnish-millionaire-gets-111888-euro-speeding-ticket/)

In that case Brimo it certainly seems that the poor bastard copped in the neck (or up the arse if you are that way inclined). 2km/h over the 'standard' fine limit and in a year with a huge income spike ... ouch!

I remember a similar case a couple of years ago when the Nokia owner (or highly paid exec.) copped a massive fine under that system ... lets face it a couple of hundred bucks is no deterrent to these people.

Just pinched this from the General Board ... nice system we seem to have in Australia [bang]

[bang] [bang] [bang] [bang] [bang]
Okay once MAY have been an accident but twice at the same place.  Surely that's murder.  She should never be allowed to drive a vehicle again. And where's the punishment in a wholly suspended sentence? ???

 [bang] [bang] [bang] [bang]

And yes I like the Finnish speeding fine model.  It may reduce the amount I have to pay for speeding fines  [roll]  ;D

I honestly don't know if I would be able to get behind the wheel again if I had caused somebody's death especially if I was solely at fault. But to do it twice ... in the same place (I mean seriously of all places to be super attentive) and then have the gall to call your self a competent driver and appeal your (I think, quite lenient) sentence ... well, really, what can you say?

I know what I say - lock the incompetent, self-centred, murdering beyatch up for about ten years!

Thanks, that feels better now......