Ducati Monster Forum

You know it's funny, whenever there is an economic crisis the over priced products that don't offer much value for the money are usually the first to falter. I'm surprised it has taken this long for HD to be in financial trouble.
 If you look at what Victory is doing though, they are growing every year and introducing new and exciting products every year. Maybe if HD took a different approach such as.... I don't know..... maybe selling a bike with decen't components without having to spend an additional $10K to make it look nice and perform as it should have from the factory? That would be a start, no? Oh, that and find someone other than a blind man to weld the frames together. Lol

Oh, that and find someone other than a blind man to weld the frames together.

In reality, they only thing they are doing is trimming the fat... If sucks to be a union worker on an assembly line and lose your $40 an hour job, and it sucks for the management as well.

While its not limited to just these companies, nor does this really state all that much about the regions, but I find it interesting that american transportation companies are located in the same general area, and are laying down like a cheap dates on prom night.

The MV is for all intents the same bike as they designed in 1994!

Improve quality a bunch and lower the price for what really is a 94 GSXR750 with a big bore kit. Perfect match.

Now Ducati with VW.. hmmm

If VW gets Ducati I see Ducati's going down a very boring road...

Steve,

They have changed some of the bolt on bits, but the core chassis, swingarm, engine are unchanged. The 312 is 60lbs heavier than a CBR1000. It is so dated in performance that it isnt even included in the comparison tests anymore!

Ive had 4 MV's and as much as I wanted to love them, just bitter disapointments, the lot.

I had an Oro, and it was a slow 600, my 312 was a joke, and I could run circles around it on my ZX10.

The bike was penned in 92, restyled slightly in 94, and the bodywork hasnt changed much since. I had a spare set from a 312 project that I put on a friends F750 Oro for track bodywork! 15 years difference, same part.

I love the MV Marque, I love the old bikes they made and raced, and I feel that the brand has been severely let down over the last 15 years of non development.

The sad fact is that some minor updates and a revamp of the existing motor platform do not a new bike make. Ducati stepped from the 996 to the 999 to the 1098, the big four update every two years.

its tragic, but true

Dear god no. I really hope that this does not happen. VW ripped the soul out of Lambo. The difference between Ferrari and Lambo used to be that a Lambo was a raw amazing car. A Lambo would kill you if you didn't know what you were doing. Ferrari's were for OCD control freaks, Lambo's were for people that wanted to get into heaven in a fireball. VW castrated the bull and now the difference between the two is mostly aesthetics. If VW gets Ducati I see Ducati's going down a very boring road...

MV..who knows....hopefully they survive and HD got out soon enough that they didn't do too much damage.

No, it was a car from a manufacturer founded by a man who could not get his design to be built by Ferrari. Furthermore, he wanted to make great cars that did NOT race (despite this, his employees went out and did it anyways), whereas Ferrari is/was a company bent on winning at the race track. That was the difference.

Lamborghini's increasing wealth allowed him to cultivate an interest in cars that were a far cry from the tiny Fiat Topolinos he had tinkered with in his garage in his spare time.[9] He owned Alfa Romeos and Lancias during the early 1950s, and at one point, had enough cars to use a different one every day of the week, adding a Mercedes-Benz 300SL, a Jaguar E-Type coupé, and two Maserati 3500GTs.[9] In 1958, Lamborghini traveled to Maranello to buy a Ferrari 250GT, a two-seat coupé with a body designed by coachbuilder Pininfarina. He went on to own several more over the years, including a Scaglietti-designed 250 SWB Berlinetta and a 250GT 2+2 four-seater.[9] Lamborghini thought Ferrari's cars were good,[9] but too noisy and rough to be proper road cars, labeling them as repurposed track cars with poorly-built interiors.[8] Most annoyingly, Lamborghini found that Ferrari's cars were equipped with inferior clutches, and he was continuously forced to return to Maranello for clutch rebuilds. Ferrari technicians would take the car away for several hours to make the repairs, not allowing the curious Lamborghini to view the work; he had previously expressed dissatisfaction with Ferrari's aftersales service, which he perceived to be substandard.[8] Frustrated with the recurring nature of the problems, during one particularly long wait, he took the matter up with the company's founder, "Il Commendatore", Enzo Ferrari.[1]
Period Ferraris had spartan interiors, lacking the plush appointments Lamborghini felt were essential to a gran turismo car

What happened next has become the stuff of legend: according to a 1991 Thoroughbred & Classic Cars magazine interview with Lamborghini, he complained to Enzo in "a bit of an argument", telling him that his cars were rubbish; the notoriously pride-filled Modenan was furious, telling the manufacturing tycoon, "Lamborghini, you may be able to drive a tractor, but you will never be able to handle a Ferrari properly."[9] Enzo Ferrari's snubbing of Lamborghini had profound consequences. Lamborghini later said that it was at that point that he got the idea that if Enzo Ferrari, or anyone else, could not build him a perfect car, he might be able to simply make such a car himself.[8][10] The tractor magnate felt that Ferrari's cars did not have the attributes of a superior grand tourer; Lamborghini believed that such a car should provide high performance without compromising tractability, ride quality, and interior appointments. Believing he could also outdo the legendary Ferrari performance, upon returning to Pieve di Cento, Lamborghini and his workers at the tractor factory opened up one of his 250GTs and starting working on it. The simple single overhead camshaft cylinder heads were replaced with custom units, and six horizontally-mounted dual carburetors were mounted to the V12 engine. Lamborghini would take the modified car out to the motorway entrance near Modena, and wait for Ferrari's test drivers to appear. According to Lamborghini, the improvements made his car at least 25 km/h (16 mph) faster than the factory's own cars, and it could easily outrun the testers in their stock machines.[9]

Some contend that Lamborghini entered the business of making automobiles purely to spite Ferrari by showing him that he could build a better car than his precious steeds, faster, sleeker, more beautiful, and more outrageous than what the Maranello camp could offer. Others contend that he simply saw a financial opportunity in producing such cars;[4] Lamborghini realized that the same components that he sold in his tractors could bring in three times the profits if installed in a high-performance exotic car.[11] It was the beginning of an historic rivalry: Ferruccio and Enzo would never speak again.[9]

No, it was a car from a manufacturer founded by a man who could not get his design to be built by Ferrari. Furthermore, he wanted to make great cars that did NOT race (despite this, his employees went out and did it anyways), whereas Ferrari is/was a company bent on winning at the race track. That was the difference.

Steve...

Simple statement about the MV Agusta F4 series -- if that bike was debuted today, I think it would still generate an incredible amount of publicity.  It isn't "dated" looking in my personal opinion.  I honestly don't think there is another motorcycle design that has come close to dethroning it's position as the sexiest looking motorcycle yet. (and everyone has had 10+ years to try)

I agree 100%  I don't know what some of the Japanese manufacturers are up to (?Suzuki?) but in the process of updating their bikes, they keep getting uglier each year instead of better looking.

I agree 100%  I don't know what some of the Japanese manufacturers are up to (?Suzuki?) but in the process of updating their bikes, they keep getting uglier each year instead of better looking.

The sad fact is that some minor updates and a revamp of the existing motor platform do not a new bike make. Ducati stepped from the 996 to the 999 to the 1098, the big four update every two years.

I know a bunch of Private Equity people so if anyone want to buy Buell I probably can get you some contacts. Put a decent engine in it and I figure you do pretty well. I worked with the state of PA on building an automotive factory out by Philly before the deal fell apart. They were offering tons of state money & tax breaks. Shipping port attached to the same facility. There was even enough space to put a small test track... Come on now, that's too great of a deal to pass up.  [thumbsup]

Buells not for sale. 

How will used Buells fare on the market now? Will thee be bargains to be had?

not sure if anyone has said this... but think Erik Buell, Chief Technical Designer... MV Agusta  [moto]

Side radiators were done by other manufacturers too.

And what is the AMA/DMG debacle going to do now?

we'll find out in march.

And the final straw has been the debacle in AMA this year.  Sorry Eric, you have not been competitive at the highest level.  Nearly double the displacement of your typical competitor is not the same thing.  Even granting the 848 against 600cc is pushing it in my opinion.  1125?? Forget about it.

All that aside, your company was beginning to show some promise with the whole ruthless engineering thing.  SOMEBODY, please give me an American bike to cheer for.  I will be your biggest fan.  Eric B, I'll even give you a second chance.  Just make a real effort this time. 

MotoCzysz?

Frankly, if a motorcycle company can't (or chooses not to) produce a single bike among their entire lineup that inspires me to want to ride, then they've failed as a bike manufacturer.

Maybe we as a forum can all pool our money together and buy MV. What better than a bike company owned by true enthusiasts who actually ride.  [thumbsup]

they should all have one bike that caters to ya, huh?  ;D

If Buells could have been sold someplace other than HD dealers, they might actually have sold more bikes.

they should all have one bike that caters to ya, huh?  ;D

Now Ducati with VW.. hmmm Wonder if they will build the bikes in Tiawan like BMW?

http://hellforleathermagazine.com/2009/10/whats-going-to-happen-to-erik.html#more (http://hellforleathermagazine.com/2009/10/whats-going-to-happen-to-erik.html#more)

The last comment could be construed to suggest Buell motorcycles will be renamed has Harley Davidson... interesting thought but I'm not going to hold my breath.

The decision was made to shutter rather than sell Buell because it's product range and distribution network are so heavily dependent on its parent company, that there's relatively little value in the company that could be transferred to a new owner.

wow... talk about the parent company not "getting it..."

if it's so little value, let erik buy his name, his company, and his patents back for $1.

.......

Not my style, but I've met a few Victory owners and they rave about their machines.

He is one of the good guys in the motorcycle business. We need men like him to remind us of the passion that motorcycles inspire in all of us who ride. I can only hope the black leather boot of the motor company doesn’t crush his spirit to continue. I hope that he, his company and the workers there can emerge from this and continue to make motorcycles.

+1 - well said.

It is easy to knock their bikes, and being different for the sake of being different, but if 99% of us were put in his shoes to design a competitive motorcycle, the outcome would be lucky to keep up with a vespa.

mitt

Frankly, I doubt that H-D is overly concerned with Erik's fate.  I think they're just trying to stop the ($$) bleeding by amputating the least-valued appendages. 

From the same Hell for Leather article:

"It's not actually sales that are Harley's biggest problem -- although they can't help -- it's the troubled finance wing. Harley's practice of giving sub-prime motorcycle loans to unsuitable candidates has bit the company in its proverbial ass, forcing Harley to borrow $1 billion in operating capitol at 15%. That's only enough money to see it through to the end of the year. So far this year, revenue at Harley is only down 17 percent, yet net income has fallen 71.4 percent."

It does leave the door open for Buell once they get their finances sorted out but yes, I'm a bit shocked that HD think they appeal to a younger audience. The core value of Harley is the brand name & logo. At least that doesn't require any R&D. The only time they've produced something different (V-Rod) all the "HD Faithful" dissed it because it wasn't a real Harley.

Victory has been relatively successful for an American manufacturer, if you go for that style of bike- the V-Twin cruiser with some interesting engineering (compared to the Milwaukee guys), a good parent (Polaris) behind them, and what seems like a realistic estimate of what their market share would be.

Not my style, but I've met a few Victory owners and they rave about their machines.

I heard he's staying on at Harley.  The MotorCo. should give Erik the XR1200 to fix it and make it weigh at least 100 lbs. less.

And that Buell/Rotax engine?  Beats anything Harley will ever have.

LA

I'm with you Mike, F@%* Harley, I've been goin after market since day one, aside from the two engines, three headers, 4 fuel pumps, 3 stators, wait a minute now I can fix my own crap. Harley sucks

I think killing Buell was the result of that engine because it really shamed HD.

I'd like to see Erik B go off and do his own thing again, maybe restart Buell as an American version of Bimota -- designing bikes and using whatever powerplant he wants to, which is sort of his history with the Yamahas and harley lumps.

No doubt HD owns the rights to the Buell name, but historically, Non-Competes won't stand up in court.  I'm betting he is still under contract to them, so that would prevent him going out on his own.

The V-rod motor already did that.

I meant Buell using a Rotax engine shamed the HD historians.. (ahem.. "engineers").  The VMax (ahem.. V-ROD) might have done it too, but it's still HD designed (isn't it?) and is a V twin, albeit 60 deg... it's not a Swedish designed parallel, is what i meant...

I feel bad for Erik Buell, not so much for MV. Buell was allowed to put a few inovative ideas to market that are now commonplace (Mass centralization, underbike muffler) that never would have seen light of day if it wasnt for his tireless work and dedication. The AMAZING thing is that the Buell was built at all in the US, given the idea crushing, CYA attitude of nearly every executive I have ever worked with.

I thought Honda was pushing mass centralization pre-Buell.

I'm not sure where you get that idea, but non-competes often usually hold if both parties have acted in good faith.  I've done a few cases on business non competes and the affected party has to show bad faith by the other party as to some material part of their agreement.

It doesn't seem there is any bad faith by HD here, as they have just made a simple business decision and are retaining Erik Buell.  If he unilaterally goes off by himself, he will probably be subject to a non compete, and it will probably stand.

A non compete requirement only works under a contractual agreement, he can be subject to that agreement for the rest of his life regardless if he is working for HD or not (if that is how the agreement was structured).

german-designed, actually (porsche)...

Respectfully, the paragraph immediately above regarding "life-long" non-competes is not accurate (non-competes by nature must be limited in duration/geography, etc., to be enforceable).

And Erik Buell should set up shop in CA, where employee non-compete agreements are statutorily void and unenforceable as being against public policy (with few exceptions).  

And back on topic, innovation is a dangerous game (when profits rule), especially without support from the parent company.  Is anyone really surprised by Buell's announcement?

Isn't it a rule that young guys prefer sportbikes and older guys prefer cruisers -- in general? 

Interestingly, California has refused to uphold out-of-state agreements venued in another state.  No one has fought it in federal court and it remains to be seen if the fed cts would force CA to uphold an out-of-state non compete under full faith and credit -- on its face, they likely should be (forced to...)

I am surprised by Buell's announcement because HD has little new market.  The down-market bikes they sell aren't enough to attract new riders willing to buy the higher end stuff that their older riders are buying.

........

I am surprised by Buell's announcement because HD has little new market.  The down-market bikes they sell aren't enough to attract new riders willing to buy the higher end stuff that their older riders are buying.

I don't know the financial statistics of what profit Buell brought in or what it cost HD to run, but it appears that Buell wasn't the biggest seller out there and a reason for a company in a slow-economy to drop.

People can say all they want how great it was that Buell made these bikes and all the pride of desiging and owning a Buell, but profit and sales is what keeps a company going, not pride.

People here are speaking of how Harley Davidson makes only one style of motorcycle and needs that sportbike line.  Excuse me, but look at Ducati, do they make ANY cruisers?  So HD does not need sportbikes more than Ducati needs to make cruisers.

Rumors are flying that Yamaha might be interested in Buell... stay tuned..

It does leave the door open for Buell once they get their finances sorted out but yes, I'm a bit shocked that HD think they appeal to a younger audience. The core value of Harley is the brand name & logo. At least that doesn't require any R&D. The only time they've produced something different (V-Rod) all the "HD Faithful" dissed it because it wasn't a real Harley.

I'd ride the snot out of a v-rod, personally. it looks like fun, for what its made to do.

OK, I am tempted to take one off their hands now.  I just stopped by the same dealer that wanted more than MSRP on a year old model this spring.  Now they are clearing out their 1125R's and one CR for $6,100!

That is a good enough deal you could buy it and chop it up enough to make it look good.  Something for the radiators and headlight and a CR could look pretty good.

if that was true, Ducati would have been long gone in the 1960s...[/qoute]
While Ducati doesn't have the volume of sales as many other brands, they sell enough and had the proper management to keep themseleves in business.

[qoute]Harley didn't make Buell, Buell made Buell.  They were wholly owned and backed by HD, but Buell had a separate factory and a separate balance sheet.

I am also surprise by people who probably never even considered owning a Buell now want one just because they are going out of business and they may get one for a lower price. People now have so much feelings about Buell just because they're going on the business.  A feeling of guilt? Feeling of patriotic feelings for an American company or just taking advantage of low prices as a company goes down the drain?

If you really liked Buell, you all would of bought one when they actually needed you as a customer.

Damn. Track bike? Ride against all the other 600's.

Damn. Track bike? Ride against all the other 600's.

Key phrase here is "owned and backed by HD" which gives HD the right to decide if Buell was worth keeping or not. So in a sense, HD was in full control of Buell even if HD did not technically make the Buell bikes. Which is a reason not to compare Buell with Ducati. Ducati is an indepedent business who is has been apparently more successful than Buell.

It would be like Ducati owning another brand, i.e. Guzzi and the Guzzi brand only being cruisers..

If Buell was "all that" then they wouldn't of needed to be owned and backed by HD.  Buell would of not been involved with HD at all if they were truly an independent and successful company.

If you really liked Buell, you all would of bought one when they actually needed you as a customer.

Wrong. There was not significant forewarning that Buell was in trouble. They released a new bike platform, it was getting great reviews in the magazines (Look at the newsstand for THIS month's issues - not a word about Buell getting dropped), and they had an entire racing organization throw out the rulebook so they could compete. None of these things show a company that's about to get the boot.

I am also surprise by people who probably never even considered owning a Buell now want one just because they are going out of business and they may get one for a lower price. People now have so much feelings about Buell just because they're going on the business.  A feeling of guilt? Feeling of patriotic feelings for an American company or just taking advantage of low prices as a company goes down the drain?

If you really liked Buell, you all would of bought one when they actually needed you as a customer.

Buell were not in trouble ...its HD that need money do they ditched Buell.but with 75% of new vehicle  being development costs its MV and Buell that cost HD real money. HD does not spend much on development for their bike as they have very long production runs with minor modifications .Overpricing and quality is HDs real problem plus the demographic issue...they must cost peanuts to build with the poor finishes and the development costs amortised tears ago.

Not even sure overpricing is a problem. They sell those bikes like crazy. I think an issue is a younger demographic is less interested in the 'mild thrills' a cruiser style bike offers.

Wrong. There was not significant forewarning that Buell was in trouble. They released a new bike platform, it was getting great reviews in the magazines (Look at the newsstand for THIS month's issues - not a word about Buell getting dropped), and they had an entire racing organization throw out the rulebook so they could compete. None of these things show a company that's about to get the boot.

The HD market is grossly saturated and there are huge deals to be had on the used market. A lot of people who "thought" they wanted to be the cool, tough guy HD rider realized that bikes are dangerous and not for them. Then there's the HD population that lost their jobs and really couldn't afford one in the first place. HD hooked them with low financing, even to high credit risks with the "Screw it, Let's ride" as campaign. Much like the housing market, "You're screwed". This is a sign of a company in real trouble, I would unload any stock you have ASAP and cut your losses, HOG hasn't even come close to hitting bottom.

You didn't get my point.  Nobody would of needed to be forewarned that Buell was in trouble in order to buy their bikes.
If more people liked Buell bikes and actually bought them in the past instead of just talking how great they are, then Buell would of sold more bikes and made the profit to run as an independent company apart from HD and remained in business.

If Buell was truly a successful company by itself, then they would be able to stay in business even if HD dropped them.
If a company like Buell needs to be backed up by another like HD in order to operate, then THAT is a good forewarning that business is not good.
Hmmm, what is a good example......ahhhh yes, General Motors backed up by the government.
GM cars got great reviews in the magazines too.

In AMA GT2 the Ducati PS1000 runs against Suzuki SV650 bikes.  ;)

In GT1 Ducati runs the 848 against the 600's.

You didn't get my point.  Nobody would of needed to be forewarned that Buell was in trouble in order to buy their bikes.
If more people liked Buell bikes and actually bought them in the past instead of just talking how great they are, then Buell would of sold more bikes and made the profit to run as an independent company apart from HD and remained in business.

You didn't get my point.  Nobody would of needed to be forewarned that Buell was in trouble in order to buy their bikes.
If more people liked Buell bikes and actually bought them in the past instead of just talking how great they are, then Buell would of sold more bikes and made the profit to run as an independent company apart from HD and remained in business.

If you really liked Buell, you all would of bought one when they actually needed you as a customer."

It is just a bad time for bike business, and mfg's are figuring out ways to streamline, and this is one way, to reduce model numbers.

I just checked the local dealer here....2009 1125cr   $5,995.      :o

I just checked the local dealer here....2009 1125cr   $5,995.      :o

Poor finishes???  Really?  Where do you get this?  HD has the best paint in the business.  

Where do I go to pick it up?

I used to run a HD dealership...we had lots of quality issues,peeling Chrome and fasteners were most common , electics ,timing side faliures and paint blemisheson multicolour options  ,for a so called premium price we had lots of issues.HD support is good for warranty but it can amount to $hundreds per bike..that has to hurt HD.

wow, they are really moving them. 

mitt

AMF should take over both brands.


Oh wait.... :P

Apples and oranges. The PS1000 is an air cooled bike running against water cooled ones.

The 848 running against 600s is merely the +/- 200 cc advantage given to twins (probably with weight restrictions as well). 200cc advantage is a far cry from a 525cc advantage.

You know all that though.  ;)

My point being that the Buell is not the only bike given an advantage. This has been going
on in different forms of motorsports for years. Hell, look at the GT2 class in ALMS.

stop the presses



http://www.autoblog.com/2009/10/20/buell-will-be-back-county-officials-throwing-axed-hd-brand-a-li/ (http://www.autoblog.com/2009/10/20/buell-will-be-back-county-officials-throwing-axed-hd-brand-a-li/)
 

BUT saying that, it would be cool if Buell starting using another V-2 motor shaped like and L   [thumbsup]

My point being that the Buell is not the only bike given an advantage. This has been going
on in different forms of motorsports for years. Hell, look at the GT2 class in ALMS.

If Honda came out with an 1125cc V twin next year, there is no way DMG is going to let it into the class. (though it'd be fun to see them do it)

Well, this explains why dealers are able to sell Buells at such huge discounts.  Harley is paying them $5000 for each Buell they sell, regardless of model.   :o

http://hellforleathermagazine.com/2009/10/harley-paying-dealers-5000-for.html#more (http://hellforleathermagazine.com/2009/10/harley-paying-dealers-5000-for.html#more)

they're gonna have to compete with the new ones first...

$5000 rebates at the moment.

I think that's my number 1 beef with the rule set. It seems like it should be as simple as

2 cyl = XXX displacement
3 cyl = YYY displacement
4 cyl = ZZZ displacement
5 cyl = WWW displacement

Manufacturer should never be mentioned in the rule, neither is engine layout. Boxers or Vs or Ls get whatever the limit for that number of cylinders is. Any colossal advantages could be remedied by weight restrictions as seasons progress.

<Secret H-D Executive Meeting>

Chairman Barry Allen - "We're in some deep shit, guys."

CEO Kieth Wandell - "No fooling, the toilet in the Executive Washroom won't flush. Why won't the make the beast with two backsing janitor fix it?"

CFO John Olin - "Kieth, you're an idiot. You fired him 2 weeks ago to cut costs!"

CEO Keith - "Oh....Um.... I forgot about that."

CFO John - "We're bleeding money, dammit! Can't we get a Government Bailout^tm?"

Chmn Barry - "John, you're even more of a moron than Keith.
                   We already sold $600M of bad debt. By the way, what do we have to show for it?"

CFO John - "Well, I bought a shiny helicopter."

CEO Keith - "Sweet! When can you take me for a ride?"

Chmn Barry - "You guys are dumber than a sack of hammers.
                   We've got a problem, what in the hell are we going to do about it?"

CEO Keith - "Screw it!  Let's RIDE!"

</Secret H-D Executive Meeting>

Fixed it for ya!   [laugh]

One of the dealers is letting an 1125r go for $6k. Wife said I could get it but have to trade the duc.  I can't part with the duc for that ugly thing. How will parts availability be in 3 years? 

Buell...blah...blah...blah...

All I want to know is:  Where the HELL is this road?????
Looks like SoCal and it reminds me a bit of Glendora Ridge Route...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v48/orangelion03/pic6.jpg)

 

I just checked the local dealer here....2009 1125cr   $5,995.      :o

Oh THAT road!  Well, everyone knows that road is right outside Buellton, California.

 [laugh]

<Secret H-D Executive Meeting>

Chairman Barry Allen - "We're in some deep shit, guys."

CEO Kieth Wandell - "No fooling, the toilet in the Executive Washroom won't flush. Why won't the make the beast with two backsing janitor fix it?"

CFO John Olin - "Kieth, you're an idiot. You fired him 2 weeks ago to cut costs!"

CEO Keith - "Oh....Um.... I forgot about that."

CFO John - "We're bleeding money, dammit! Can't we get a Government Bailout^tm?"

Chmn Barry - "John, you're even more of a moron than Keith.
                   We already sold $600M of bad debt. By the way, what do we have to show for it?"

CFO John - "Well, I bought a shiny helicopter."

CEO Keith - "Sweet! When can you take me for a ride?"

Chmn Barry - "You guys are dumber than a sack of hammers.
                   We've got a problem, what in the hell are we going to do about it?"

CEO Keith - "Jesus, Barry, no need to get all hot under the collar.
                 It's Buell, that shit is dragging us down."

CFO John - "Let's shut Buell down, that will save us a bunch of money!"

Chmn Barry - "John, how much will that save us?"

CFO John - "I have no idea."

CEO Keith - "Yeah, Buell! He's a witch!"

CFO John - "Burn him!"

Chmn Barry - "YES! BURN HIM!"

CFO John - "All our worries are over!"

CEO Keith - "Whew! I thought it was going to be hard to get out of this mess."

Chmn Barry - "Indeed, we're in the clear. Meeting adjourned!"

</Secret H-D Executive Meeting>

hey, its 150 on the speedo, in a speedo!

But why is he using his "gauge cluster" as a structural member?  That can't feel good.