No more Buell...

[RetroSBK]

Steve,

They have changed some of the bolt on bits, but the core chassis, swingarm, engine are unchanged. The 312 is 60lbs heavier than a CBR1000. It is so dated in performance that it isnt even included in the comparison tests anymore!

Ive had 4 MV's and as much as I wanted to love them, just bitter disapointments, the lot.

I had an Oro, and it was a slow 600, my 312 was a joke, and I could run circles around it on my ZX10.

The bike was penned in 92, restyled slightly in 94, and the bodywork hasnt changed much since. I had a spare set from a 312 project that I put on a friends F750 Oro for track bodywork! 15 years difference, same part.

I love the MV Marque, I love the old bikes they made and raced, and I feel that the brand has been severely let down over the last 15 years of non development.

The sad fact is that some minor updates and a revamp of the existing motor platform do not a new bike make. Ducati stepped from the 996 to the 999 to the 1098, the big four update every two years.

its tragic, but true

[superjohn]

Steve,

They have changed some of the bolt on bits, but the core chassis, swingarm, engine are unchanged. The 312 is 60lbs heavier than a CBR1000. It is so dated in performance that it isnt even included in the comparison tests anymore!

Ive had 4 MV's and as much as I wanted to love them, just bitter disapointments, the lot.

I had an Oro, and it was a slow 600, my 312 was a joke, and I could run circles around it on my ZX10.

The bike was penned in 92, restyled slightly in 94, and the bodywork hasnt changed much since. I had a spare set from a 312 project that I put on a friends F750 Oro for track bodywork! 15 years difference, same part.

I love the MV Marque, I love the old bikes they made and raced, and I feel that the brand has been severely let down over the last 15 years of non development.

The sad fact is that some minor updates and a revamp of the existing motor platform do not a new bike make. Ducati stepped from the 996 to the 999 to the 1098, the big four update every two years.

its tragic, but true

That explains why HD initially liked them enough to buy them. Now I get it. 

[junior varsity]

Dear god no. I really hope that this does not happen. VW ripped the soul out of Lambo. The difference between Ferrari and Lambo used to be that a Lambo was a raw amazing car. A Lambo would kill you if you didn't know what you were doing. Ferrari's were for OCD control freaks, Lambo's were for people that wanted to get into heaven in a fireball. VW castrated the bull and now the difference between the two is mostly aesthetics. If VW gets Ducati I see Ducati's going down a very boring road...

No, it was a car from a manufacturer founded by a man who could not get his design to be built by Ferrari. Furthermore, he wanted to make great cars that did NOT race (despite this, his employees went out and did it anyways), whereas Ferrari is/was a company bent on winning at the race track. That was the difference.

[Paegelow]

MV..who knows....hopefully they survive and HD got out soon enough that they didn't do too much damage.

The only "damage" HD did to MV was to pay off their huge debt and rearrange their business so they can actually make a profit now.

[DrDesmo]

No, it was a car from a manufacturer founded by a man who could not get his design to be built by Ferrari. Furthermore, he wanted to make great cars that did NOT race (despite this, his employees went out and did it anyways), whereas Ferrari is/was a company bent on winning at the race track. That was the difference.

Lamborghini's increasing wealth allowed him to cultivate an interest in cars that were a far cry from the tiny Fiat Topolinos he had tinkered with in his garage in his spare time.[9] He owned Alfa Romeos and Lancias during the early 1950s, and at one point, had enough cars to use a different one every day of the week, adding a Mercedes-Benz 300SL, a Jaguar E-Type coupé, and two Maserati 3500GTs.[9] In 1958, Lamborghini traveled to Maranello to buy a Ferrari 250GT, a two-seat coupé with a body designed by coachbuilder Pininfarina. He went on to own several more over the years, including a Scaglietti-designed 250 SWB Berlinetta and a 250GT 2+2 four-seater.[9] Lamborghini thought Ferrari's cars were good,[9] but too noisy and rough to be proper road cars, labeling them as repurposed track cars with poorly-built interiors.[8] Most annoyingly, Lamborghini found that Ferrari's cars were equipped with inferior clutches, and he was continuously forced to return to Maranello for clutch rebuilds. Ferrari technicians would take the car away for several hours to make the repairs, not allowing the curious Lamborghini to view the work; he had previously expressed dissatisfaction with Ferrari's aftersales service, which he perceived to be substandard.[8] Frustrated with the recurring nature of the problems, during one particularly long wait, he took the matter up with the company's founder, "Il Commendatore", Enzo Ferrari.[1]
Period Ferraris had spartan interiors, lacking the plush appointments Lamborghini felt were essential to a gran turismo car

What happened next has become the stuff of legend: according to a 1991 Thoroughbred & Classic Cars magazine interview with Lamborghini, he complained to Enzo in "a bit of an argument", telling him that his cars were rubbish; the notoriously pride-filled Modenan was furious, telling the manufacturing tycoon, "Lamborghini, you may be able to drive a tractor, but you will never be able to handle a Ferrari properly."[9] Enzo Ferrari's snubbing of Lamborghini had profound consequences. Lamborghini later said that it was at that point that he got the idea that if Enzo Ferrari, or anyone else, could not build him a perfect car, he might be able to simply make such a car himself.[8][10] The tractor magnate felt that Ferrari's cars did not have the attributes of a superior grand tourer; Lamborghini believed that such a car should provide high performance without compromising tractability, ride quality, and interior appointments. Believing he could also outdo the legendary Ferrari performance, upon returning to Pieve di Cento, Lamborghini and his workers at the tractor factory opened up one of his 250GTs and starting working on it. The simple single overhead camshaft cylinder heads were replaced with custom units, and six horizontally-mounted dual carburetors were mounted to the V12 engine. Lamborghini would take the modified car out to the motorway entrance near Modena, and wait for Ferrari's test drivers to appear. According to Lamborghini, the improvements made his car at least 25 km/h (16 mph) faster than the factory's own cars, and it could easily outrun the testers in their stock machines.[9]

Some contend that Lamborghini entered the business of making automobiles purely to spite Ferrari by showing him that he could build a better car than his precious steeds, faster, sleeker, more beautiful, and more outrageous than what the Maranello camp could offer. Others contend that he simply saw a financial opportunity in producing such cars;[4] Lamborghini realized that the same components that he sold in his tractors could bring in three times the profits if installed in a high-performance exotic car.[11] It was the beginning of an historic rivalry: Ferruccio and Enzo would never speak again.[9]

- Wikipedia

Adam

[Mad Duc]

No, it was a car from a manufacturer founded by a man who could not get his design to be built by Ferrari. Furthermore, he wanted to make great cars that did NOT race (despite this, his employees went out and did it anyways), whereas Ferrari is/was a company bent on winning at the race track. That was the difference.

How Lambo got started is way off from where they went. If I had cash I would rather have a 80's/90's Lambo over the Ferrari equivalent. I think it would be a hell of a lot more fun to drive.

[EvilSteve]

Steve...

You're obviously (no, I'm really *not* being sarcastic here) more qualified to comment than me, I haven't owned a single MV (although, I've wanted plenty). I have ridden MVs but that's not the same as owning. I rode an F4 750 and thought it was great, fit me really well & was a pleasure to ride. I have several friends who own MVs & other than (one of my friends having) some issues with fueling, have been happy with their bikes. In that instance we're talking about reliability, not design. The forks have been updated, the brakes, the motor. They've updated the wheels, they've done minor tweaks for years i.e. exactly like a 911. Ducati copped a lot of flack for the change from the 916/996/998 (I'm no expert but what was the major difference other than motor?) to the 999. They still get flack for it and many people complain about the 1098/1198 design being too Japanese. The F4 was the most beautiful design in motorcycles since the 916 IMO, you don't just throw that out because "it's time for a change". MV also invested a lot in the F4 radial valve design, this was one of their core principals and also couldn't be cast aside. Like Ducati, they've painted themselves into a little bit of a corner with their core brand and how much they're able to innovate. Not to mention that they're an even smaller company that Ducati & have an even more limited ability to invest in R&D.

The 2010 MV sport bike is meant to be newish, I hope more so than the "new" Brutales (there I go kind of agreeing with you ) because the design is getting a little long in the tooth.

In reality I agree with you, the F4 (and derivatives) haven't changed much since inception. What I disagree with is the characterization that the F4 is as bad as you're making out. You really do sound bitter. There may be good reason for it but that's what comes across to me.

I'm hoping the F3 triple they're working on is going to be out soonish, I may end up having some personal experience of ownership on which to base discussion at that point.

[MotoCreations]

Simple statement about the MV Agusta F4 series -- if that bike was debuted today, I think it would still generate an incredible amount of publicity.  It isn't "dated" looking in my personal opinion.  I honestly don't think there is another motorcycle design that has come close to dethroning it's position as the sexiest looking motorcycle yet. (and everyone has had 10+ years to try)

[Bill in OKC]

Simple statement about the MV Agusta F4 series -- if that bike was debuted today, I think it would still generate an incredible amount of publicity.  It isn't "dated" looking in my personal opinion.  I honestly don't think there is another motorcycle design that has come close to dethroning it's position as the sexiest looking motorcycle yet. (and everyone has had 10+ years to try)

I agree 100%  I don't know what some of the Japanese manufacturers are up to (?Suzuki?) but in the process of updating their bikes, they keep getting uglier each year instead of better looking.

[lwszabo]

I agree 100%  I don't know what some of the Japanese manufacturers are up to (?Suzuki?) but in the process of updating their bikes, they keep getting uglier each year instead of better looking.

but thats what sells. I think most "squid's" would buy anything as long as Suzuki puts there name on it.

[junior varsity]

I agree 100%  I don't know what some of the Japanese manufacturers are up to (?Suzuki?) but in the process of updating their bikes, they keep getting uglier each year instead of better looking.

I think the new CBR is a huge step in the right direction. I find it downright good looking. Not a fan of Y, S, or K though. Currently.

The sad fact is that some minor updates and a revamp of the existing motor platform do not a new bike make. Ducati stepped from the 996 to the 999 to the 1098, the big four update every two years.

Aesthetically,
Would it not be more accurate to say they went 851-->916-->999-->1098?

It just seems that you've got 4 distinct Superbike generation groups:
Group:              1                            2                      3                   4
Members:      851/888             916/955/996/998          999           1098/1198
SubMembers:     ?                           748                   749                848

Much like you have Monster iterations:
1. 851/888 Framed Monsters
2. ST Framed Monsters
3. S*R Monsters
4. New Monsters

And both with Ducati SBK's and Monster Series, One could chose to divide it differently with engine evolution or chassis changes, rather than mere aesthetics like bodywork.

[mrplease]

super bummer 

i always loved the buells...

[Mad Duc]

I know a bunch of Private Equity people so if anyone want to buy Buell I probably can get you some contacts. Put a decent engine in it and I figure you do pretty well. I worked with the state of PA on building an automotive factory out by Philly before the deal fell apart. They were offering tons of state money & tax breaks. Shipping port attached to the same facility. There was even enough space to put a small test track... Come on now, that's too great of a deal to pass up.  

[Porsche Monkey]

I know a bunch of Private Equity people so if anyone want to buy Buell I probably can get you some contacts. Put a decent engine in it and I figure you do pretty well. I worked with the state of PA on building an automotive factory out by Philly before the deal fell apart. They were offering tons of state money & tax breaks. Shipping port attached to the same facility. There was even enough space to put a small test track... Come on now, that's too great of a deal to pass up.  

Buells not for sale. 

[Mad Duc]

Buells not for sale. 

As the saying goes - everything is for sale.