Ducati Monster Forum

It seems like it would be confussing....is it not just all gears are down instead of up???

So you don't grind your toes off when up shifting at full lean in a corner.

^makes sense

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH makes perfect sence! [wine]

When you are up-shifting you are accelerating.. it takes less time to press the shifter down than it does up.
When you are down-shifting you are decellerating.. you have more time to posistion your foot to press the shifter up to down shift.

Additionally, if you are in race tuck, it's much easier to press down rather than trying to wedge your toe under the shifter.

I've had my Monster with GP shift for about 2 years and I really like it. Plus it's a great excuse not to let anyone ride your bike ;)
And FWIW I have no problems switching from the Duc to my GasGas with the standard 1d5u

That is the truth, on my 1098 try wedging your foot under the shifter at WOT.  I'm lucky to be hanging on!

My buddy Chuck Campbell and his friends Harry Vanderlinden and Kevin Schwantz were hanging around in the pits at VIR a few years ago.  They were party to a conversation that went something like this:

Rider 1:  I don't know why you don't change all your bikes to GP shift.  That's why I'm faster than you, 'cause I can shift easier leaned over than you can.
Rider 2:  I'm just used to shifting one down and five up, and I don't think it's hindering me.
Rider 1:  You're just being stubborn.  Mr. Schwantz, tell this moron why he needs to change to GP shift.
Schwantz:  I can't.....I've never ridden a bike with reverse shift.

End of conversation, to snickering from most of the bystanders present.

I figure if standard shift is good enough for a 500cc GP World Champion, it's good enough for me.

it feels more natural to me.
My norton is the same (except on the other side). No problems going back and forth w/ the standard / Japanese pattern.

Love my GP shift.  It seems to shift smoother also.

I find less miss-shifts with my GP pattern...

Feels a lot more intuitive to me

try it before you knock it. thats all i got to say and thats anyone who uses it will tell you.

i often found myself struggling to upshift when under hard acceleration, especially in corners.
it became even more difficult with my rizoma rearsets. yea, they are uber-adjustable, but the shifting lever is just TIGHT.
i think i might give the ol' GP shift a try.

That was my problem Corey give it a shot you might be surprised how nice it is.



Another point is when your on the bike you want to make sure you are upsetting the chassis as little as possible.  ESPECIALLY when leaned over so why not minimize the movements required to upshift by switching to a gp pattern?  Instead of moving my toe under the shifter i can just tap it down coming out of the corner keeping everything more stable.  Sure a regular pattern is fine for a 500cc motogp racer but aren't they professionals?  They are masters of the art of keeping a bike stable and we as average riders are not.  Why not make it easier on yourself and your machine and try a gp shift today?

My 0.02

that's it for me exactly.

Same for me.

Never missed an up-shift since.

Also, at least on the Duc, you are getting rid of the linkage and instead the lever is connected directly to the shift shaft, and ALL slop is eliminated. Which is why it seems to shift more effortlessly.

Once had the bolt that holds the stock shift lever to the rear-set bracket shear off.  There I was... shift linkage just dangling.  Switched to a direct shifter lever.  GP pattern now.  Never looking back.

A most convincing argument for GP pattern.

Any idea why the bikes didn't originate that way to start with ?

Dolph     :)

Reverse shift is definately worth trying to see if you like it.  Simple and free modification.  Just flip the linkage upside down and try it.  I have yet to find a negative to it.  It stopped all of my pussyfootin misshifts.  Makes it SOOO much easier to stomp (literally) through the gearbox when you are accelerating hard.  Keeps your toes off the asphalt.  And, as mentioned earlier, a good excuse to keep others off of your bike.  There is a pretty ugly week or so until you get used to it.   Bikes don't respond well to starting from a stoplight in 6th gear.  It takes a bit longer to get fully converted when put in instinctive situations (cars pulling out, beating the yellow light, etc.)  All said and done, it was a big hit for me.  The best part is that if it isn't for you, just flip the linkage back over and you are back where you started with no $ lost. 

Just remember to BE CAREFUL on the road when trying it.  Don't let fiddling with your gears occupy attention that should be focused on the crazys in their cars.  Cause you can bet that they are not paying any attention to you.

My one concern is so much about my riding style IS about being focused on the road ahead and my peripheral surroundings ( especially at warp speed in the twistie bits ).

I'm thinking my instincts are responsible for certain things and shifting is almost just an instinctual movement .

I'm one of these people that has trouble chewing gum and walking at the same time so I don't want to be wondering " now do I push or do I pull ? "

It took me quite a while to get comfortable with braking w, my index finger only. I still have to have at least 3 fingers on the clutch lever.

Dolph     :)

There will definately be a wondering period.  A couple of moments where you have to hold the clutch in and think it out.  A couple of stalls.  One or two endless searches for neutral.  The 30mph roar of 1st gear on Main St is a crowd pleaser.  In the end, it becomes just as second nature as the original pattern was (in my case anyway).  Must be that mucsle memory crap. 

I don't think I would like it. I recently had an opportunity to drive a D8 CAT The "gas Pedal" is the opposite of well everything else. Its deadman position is full throttle. There is a lever that reverses the way this works when you want to Idle the machine. It was weird..

I used to set my bikes up with this pattern but I have switched back. It's a matter of preference. I'm sorry to disagree with most of you but there is no real advantage to gp shift. If you are shifting mid corner, then you are going into the corner in the wrong gear.
 
I can only think of one corner on one racetrack where shifting midcorner is necessary and it's a downshift oddly enough. It's a huge carousel that you have to drive through without hitting the rev limiter, then at the end it drops into a chicane. If you don't downshift before you hit the chicane, you lose your drive out.

As far as upshifting better, just learn to stop using the clutch and you should never miss a shift again. If you put your toe on the bottom of the shift arm and put pressure up, as soon as you roll the throttle off real fast, it shifts! Just keep the constant pressure on the shift arm and it will work quickly and smoothly with no need for a clutch.

I used to race with gp shift but when doing 2 or 3 downshifts going into a corner, it's very hard to bang down the gearbox when you have to pull your toe up to downshift. It actually caused me lots of false neutrals, and a few race wins. It's so much easier to bang downshifts by pushing the lever down instead of up.

It's just personal preference. Run it however you like. Racers are split almost 50/50 on this. Most of us put a sticker on that says the shift pattern for the cornerworkers that pick up our bikes after a crash, and the tuners that run our bikes on a dyno. Honestly though, if you think that it gives you some advantage to shifting mid corner, then your technique is wrong.  ;) Trust me on this...it is EXTREMELY rare that you should need to upshift on a corner. Especially on a Duc because the power delivery allows you to pull out of a corner no matter what gear you are in. Someone mentioned being good enough to shift while leaned over, and while trying to stand the bike back up...sorry man but you lose time that way and when racing, that fraction of a second is too important. Driving hard out of a corner is crucial and that momentary loss of drive will put the guy behind you, in front of you. No racer sets himself up to have to shift midcorner, we set up for the corner and drive out by getting in the right gear BEFORE tipping in...myth busted!   [beer]

Your missing my point.........for racers i can understand picking what is going to be most comfortable for you and you should not be shifting out of the corner.  HOWEVER not all of us are racers or are even that good where we set up a perfect corner everytime and don't have to shift on the drive out.  For the average rider such as myself i see an advantage for when i don't time it perfectly and it takes less effort for me to just slide my foot up on the peg to shift up then to slide it under and then up.

For a good racer i'm sure it doesn't make any difference what you are running it is personal preference.  Hell we still don't know why Rossi does that whole sticking out that leg thing before the corner but it keeps him comfortable right?  To someone who is new to the track or doesn't know the corner perfectly why not just make it a little easier on yourself?

I'm sure a lot of us do not go into a corner in the proper gear and this helps us when we make that mistake.  I have been bouncing off the limiter out of a corner and or right towards the end of my drive and having a gp shift makes it a lot easier on me.  We didn't seem to be talking about racing here but the average rider.  Most of us are not worried about the fraction of a second.

A few posts here have referenced track riding and I hear that as a common explanation of why it is a good idea. The overall point is that track or street, you should not be shifting midcorner. This is a bad habit that just needs to be corrected instead of trying to make a bad habit easier to do. [beer]

Whatever feels comfortable is the best way for you to set yours up. It's my advice that you should correct bad habits, rather than enhancing your bad habits by making it easier to do. Shift pattern aside...track or street...boxers or briefs...develop better riding habits for yourself and don't repeat the myth that you should set up gp shift to make it easier to upshift mid corner.  [moto]

so you concede that it is easier to shift one direction or the other...  ;D

personally, i've caught more false neutrals upshifting with standard shift than i ever have with gp-shift.

Did you shift w/clutch or without clutch? I used to catch false neutrals with standard shift too until I learned to go clutchless. Once you learn that, it's super smooth and fast. In fact, I can't even imagine a false neutral from clutchless upshifts because you put pressure on the shift lever, then quickly chop the throttle. Since you already have the pressure there, it pops into gear everytime.

You know, you made me wonder something. Yes, I do concede that it is easier to shift one direction. As I stated, downshifts are much easier to kick down than up. I wonder if gp pattern, clutchless downshifts would be easy? hmmmm I only use the clutch on downshifts because I'm slipping the clutch out while trailbraking into the apex (racing). I've never tried clutchless downshifts, so I'm just wondering.

In other words...it's give and take. It's easier to kick the lever down than up. So, do you want to make it easier to go up a gear, or down a gear? I've found it to be much more beneficial to be able to be more aggressive with downshifting, and learned a technique for upshifting that eliminates the disadvantage from having to pull up with the toes.

I don't think i was clear enough i'm not talking about midcorner, you shouldn't be shifting midcorner no matter what.  I'm talking about the drive out of the corner.  After the apex it is much easier to just tap down on the shifter in my personal experience when i am slammed back into my seat from acceleration.  When i had standard shift trying to pull my body back up to wedge my foot under would upset the chassis.  And when i'm driving out of that corner going from 60 upto 110 in the blink of an eye and still maybe a little bit leaned over i'd rather keep everything as stable as possible.

I know in a perfect world you should not be shifting till the bike is perfectly stood up straight, if you hit the corner correctly.  But we are not all perfect riders as i stated previously nor do we have the $$ to set up the gearing perfectly for every track or street situation.  From a standard riders perspective i feel having a gp shift after the apex of a corner would make it easier on the rider and the bike.

But like you said it is preference and i am talking only about one example, even though it is the whole reason i switched to gp shift.

I'm personally still working on the whole clutchless thing but i find downshifting without a clutch can be very touchy on my bike.  Upshifting on the other hand isn't much of a problem but i am still an advocate of the clutch at the moment.  ANd i feel a lot of regular riders are the same way.

Gotcha...the most common explanation that I hear over and over is people saying that it's so you can shift up while fully leaned over without scraping your toes....this is a very bad habit. You are explaining something totally different than what most people say. [beer]

I'm with you on this one, Fasterblkduc.  I've refrained from commenting after I made my opinion on the subject known (standard WORKS better for me), but I've always found the full lean shift arguement lame beyond comment.  I figure anyone who uses that stance has never actually ridden hard enough to know what he's talking about, so I don't bother to rebut.

As to your clutchless downshift thought, I, too, have considered this and I've tried it out in casual riding.  It doesn't work very well for me.  I figure it's because the dogs on the gears are undercut, so when upshifting they engage positively, but on downshift there's no "ramp" to help force the two gears, rotating at vastly different speeds, to mesh.  YMMV.

As to the shifting whilst leaned point of view, I find this to be a common event.  I don't mean shifting at or near the apex, but at many racetracks (and tight to semitight roads) it's not uncommon to shift whilst still at a fair angle of lean.  I don't know about you guys, but my bikes have fairly narrow ratioed transmissions and can run through a full gear in under 50 yards, especially in the lower gears.  Therefore, it's not uncommon to run out of steam a few dozen yards off the corner apex, inducing a need to shift.  Often, especially in the situation of a loosening double apex or a chain of linked same-handed corners, I'll shift up, and maybe even back down, whilst still canted.  Think of Roebling Road and the 7-8-9 complex...all right handers with very little time on the fat part of the tire.....yet 9 is much faster than 7-8.  Here at Sandia, turns 3 and 4 are left handers with 3 a 2nd gear turn and 4 is 3rd or 4th gear (depending on the bike)...yet the bike never gets quite vertical between them.  No choice but to shift leaned, but not at full lean.  Standard shift has never been a problem for me. 

I've tried GP.  In fact, I have a 250 Aermacchi that is "reverse shift" (though it came that way....no change on my part) and I can't easily change it. (no room to flip the mechanism on either end).  I ride it that way.  I prefer standard.  OH...and speaking of oops....not only is the Aermacchi the only bike I currently own with "reverse shift", but it also shifts on the right.  That'll drive a man to  [drink].

I tried it and switched back.  It wasn't bad, but I didn't see any big advantage to it.  Plus, most bikes are street-shift, and it's easier for me to switch bikes if I stick to one style.  BTW, I never use the clutch for upshifts on the track.

As somebody noted, Schwantz doesn't use GP shift, and I believe he said Mladin doesn't either (I could be mis-remembering, though).  Also, Ienatsch said it's more useful for 2-stroke bikes with a tiny powerband.

mladin doesn't because of an ankle injury (ultralight accident that almost ended his career).

I have ridden my 1098 R which is race setup with the Full ( open ) Termignoni Exhaust and DP ECU ,but have ridden it 5062 miles on the street only.

I try and ride it hard on the back roads in the " Hills " and " Forests "  of Southern , Ohio where I can pretty much ride as fast as I feel comfortable.

What I do is down shift as I approach a corner an let the engine break for me and if need be add some front break just enough to hit the corner at a speed that will allow me to get thru it and carry enough rpms to where I reach the apex and can roll on the the throttle hard so I'm not in a position to need to shift any time during a corner.

Corners are to me all set up by line and down shifting into the right gear which will allow me with some help from the front brake to go ahead and blast out of the apex .

Dolph       :)

Well as for me, Ive been shifting with a standard shift since age 12 and the pattern is set.

Up shifted (up) from age 4-35, went GP for 5 yrs., back to "standard" on my first 1098 7K, now 16K on my 1098S set up GP for the past 6K.  Only times I've screwed up has been leaving the garage in 2nd gear & 1 highway patrol OH SHIT!
I have 3 other bikes in the garage all set up standard & I don't even think about it, I just know which bike I'm on.  They are all so different that you can't forget any part of the bike...including how to shift it.

Ride your ride, and make decisions that suit you and no one else.  [thumbsup]

kingbaby, your last statement pretty well sums it up.

Dolph      :)

I think that's why I have no problem switching from the GasGas to the Duc and back again. The riding position is so different that I don't even have to think about which way to shift.

   Yeah, suicide shift with a mousetrap clutch to right foot shift ,left brake , to left shift{both patterns} right brake, to Jawa one shift and no brakes, Oh shit!! what am I RIDING?? Good point King... [clap]

Me too.  ;D

Since switching to GP shift, I have gotten so much ass.

boogers sticky

High Five!

Switched just to try after reading this thread and I will be leaving it GP.  Just more comfortable for me. 

I've tried it (on a friend's bike).  I had no problem adjusting to it, but I don't see why I would want it for street riding on my bike, unless possibly all I was doing was taking on-ramps to freeways.

There are times when I have to make a sudden downshift, for example I come around a blind corner and am suddenly facing a very steep, cambered uphill that I might not have realized was there (for SF bay area riders, think about that right-hander on Page Mill Rd).

On the other hand, I can't think of a time I've ever suddenly needed to upshift.  I can just stay in the gear I'm in if necessary, even if it's not ideal.  My bike hits the rev limiter at 85 mph in 2nd gear.

One thing that I haven't seen mentioned yet, and this pertains to those having trouble with false neutrals with standard shift. . .

Do you have the shift lever adjusted down far enough?

I've never owned a bike yet that didn't need significant adjustment to the shift lever in that direction.

Just sayin

Dolph,

They used to come in all forms and variations: left side shift (which the japanese standardized across the board to get us where we are today), right side std shift, right side reverse shift, left side reverse shift.

The companies flooding the market with a standardized pattern made everyone else do the same.

Its funny to switch back to standard on a demo bike after using GP shift. I was coming out of a 1st gear turn, stomped DOWN on the shifter to go to second, and was confused when it didn't go anywhere. As I banged off the rev limiter I realized it was because this was standard shift, quick lift to second gear and the revs started climbing from the normal range again (as did the multistrada's front wheel ;))

Sorry to bump such an old thread...but thought I might add something to what has been said here.  My husband and I currently share our Monster ( and by share I mean he rides or I ride...not one of us hanging out on the back).  This is temporary as buying two bikes right off the bat wasn't financially feasible. The Monster fits me really well and him, well, tolerably, to learn until he can move to something bigger to fit his 6'5" frame. But to make things more interesting, he's missing his left leg below the knee thanks to some unpleasantness in Afghanistan years back. He has a hard time hunting around with his prosthesis on a standard shifter, especially on smaller frame bikes like those 250s they put you on for the MSF courses. In fact, he inadvertently snapped a shifter off one of the class bikes  :-[  So many thanks and kudos to our Ducati dealer and staff who worked with us to not only find an awesome bike but to make a one-off shifter for us to both use.  It looks like one of those rocker shifters you see on big cruisers and monkey hangers and for my husband it essentially works that way. Though this is smaller and his foot can actually touch the peg and both shift points. But now he just shifts with his heel. Rear is up, Front is down. Meanwhile, I have smaller feet and am able to shift normally, so I wind up with a GP shifter. So aside from the MSF course (all of 2 days), GP is all I've ever used.  I thought the solution was ingenious and it has enabled both of us to experience proper motorcycling and I can't tell you how refreshing it was to find a shop that didn't try and shove a scooter down my husband's throat! 

I did, unfortunately, low side in a corner right after the winter holidays taking a right turn. Totally my fault. So hopefully the bike will be good to go and we are just going to need to cough up the bucks for frame sliders. Not sure about GP versus standard for racing, etc as I've never done any of that and am a long ways away from it, but I will say that GP hasn't been that hard to adjust to with the exception of inadvertently slipping into neutral when down shifting from 2nd to 1st when coming to a stop.  Not an issue till I try to start moving again!! DOH ;D

Rock on [thumbsup]

GP pattern feels more aggressive to me. Plus I get to tell (like a squid) other bikers that I ride with a GP shift.  [laugh]

i switched mine to gp when I got it... my feet were so big they wouldn't fit very well. Later on I bought the right boots and just never switched back.

Don;t know if anyone has seen this video before as it is a bit older.  It was supposedly due to a recent change to a GP shift pattern.
Well worth being careful when first making the change.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZmlGebbLEI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZmlGebbLEI)

Can't seem to get the video to play on the site.  Maybe the https?

That crash was due to target fixation.

Not sure how a recent switch from standard to GP would cause that. He would have been downshifting going into that corner, which is normally pushing down on the lever. Pushing down in GP shift would have made him go up a gear so wouldn't have upset the bike like that. Even if he had just switch back to standard from GP, then he would have pulled up to down shift, which on standard is also an upshift.

I think he just dumped the clutch on downshift, didn't have a slipper, then target fixated.

I've forgotten I was on a regular shift bike in an endurance race a couple times (not my bike)...went to shift up at full throttle from 2nd to 3rd (push down), and instead dropped it into 1st (without using the clutch, just blipping the throttle). That's definitely an eye opener...I probably would have flown over the handlebars if the bike didn't have a slipper and I wasn't WOT!  [laugh]

I don't think either has an advantage for the street, but I like GP far better on the track. It allows for quicker, more positive upshifts. A lot of guys still prefer standard on the track though, so it's personal preference.

I'd advise though to anyone who makes the change to put a piece of painters tape on the dash with the letters GP written on it as a reminder until it becomes second nature.

yep. He lost traction an regained it - which spooked him, but he'd recovered and could have made it - if he hadn't fixated on the wall and gone right for it.


One can be fancy and get decals!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GP-SHIFT-STD-SHIFT-Custom-Decal-Sticker-Reverse-Shift-/230974141537?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item35c721b461&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/GP-SHIFT-STD-SHIFT-Custom-Decal-Sticker-Reverse-Shift-/230974141537?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item35c721b461&vxp=mtr)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/race-shift-pattern-decals-ccs-wera-fits-all-motorcycle-/261369861129?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3cdadb9409 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/race-shift-pattern-decals-ccs-wera-fits-all-motorcycle-/261369861129?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3cdadb9409)

I use a sticky note when I take it in for stuff.