i managed to strip the stainless steel replacement bolts for my front rotor.
Thank you, i think im going to go kill myself now.
Note: this is just a rant and doesnt belong in tech.
Those of you who know how hard it is to remove the stock ones can sympathize with me. :(
Strip the threads or head?
the bolt head.
not hard to get it off, ill just cut a slot into it, propane it and bang it out. but thats why i replace them with stainless steel.....so it wouldnt strip.
I almost did that a few days ago, SO FRUSTRATING.
Also, in case you don't know stainless is usually relatively weak, you may want to check the grade/class you have. Stock bolts are all at least class 10.9's.
It seems like more than half the mods I do, I run into some kind of crap like this. I always chalk it up to increasing the satisfaction of a completed project.
Quote from: pennyrobber on October 20, 2009, 06:12:30 PM
It seems like more than half the mods I do,
Cuz Ducati uses the cheapest harware possible. :P
:'(
Reminds me of when I broke off one of the 3 stator bolts inside the left side case on a 1200 mile old bike.
Also when one of the bolts holding the primary gear decided to just break up in 2, again on a 1200 mile old bike.
If it was easy.....everyone would do it.
Been there, done that. Go break something. It'll make you feel better. 8)
Quote from: Pedro-bot on October 20, 2009, 07:12:42 PM
Been there, done that. Go break something. It'll make you feel better. 8)
wtf But then ill have to fix it. . thats counterproductive!!! LOL
what is corrosion resistent AND strong?
I ride in rain ALL The time for hours on end and ill be ridiing when theres salt on the roads too.
Quote from: TAftonomos on October 20, 2009, 07:04:36 PM
~~~snip~~~
If it was easy.....everyone would do it.
[laugh]
Quote from: He Man on October 20, 2009, 07:56:12 PM
~~~snip~~~
what is corrosion resistent AND strong?
I ride in rain ALL The time for hours on end and ill be ridiing when theres salt on the roads too.
There are plated steel bolts that are reasonably corrosion resistant.
The Ducati OEM plated bolts *used* to be pretty good, but last couple years, they corrode pretty quick.
whats reasonable? cause these stainless held up pretty nicely...
the 2 that i didnt get out, i feel like if i heated it up for a tad bit longer it would of came out a lot easier. WHat i have in there is stainless 18-8.
where can i find 10.9s? Bolt Depot doenst have em. Fastenal might, but they rape pretty hard with fees ( .30 cent bolts turned into 75cent bolts pretty quickly since they charge 5 different taxes)
McMaster-Carr has some corrosion resistant 10.9 bolts.
Even an 8.8 bolt is stronger than the stainless ones you've got.
Here's a start:
http://www.mcmaster.com/param/html/Aboutsocketcapscrewmaterials/ (http://www.mcmaster.com/param/html/Aboutsocketcapscrewmaterials/)
bolt depot offers a 10.9 with a hex head in a zinc coating... might work.
I know desmotimes offers some form of stainless bolts...I'm guessing they're some type of special spec but you might want to speak with them to be sure.
McMasters got some nice prices, thanks for the link speeddog!
i'm in the same situation for the front exhaust header bolts.
freaking bolts and nuts rusted together.
anyone have the stud bolts rust proof?
Is it a Locktite issue? or just normal corrosion? Every bolt from the original factory assembly seems super tight, I've replaced a few and antiseized them, torqued to ISO spec. and haven't had a problem, tho' they havn't been in critical spots. just used zinc plated 10.9 steel, keep us informed of a better cure..
Quote from: He Man on October 20, 2009, 09:07:06 PM
McMasters got some nice prices, thanks for the link speeddog!
McMaster-Carr is a great place. They have literally everything, and at reasonable prices and stuff usually ships the same day.
had the same issue with my triples when i did the GSXR fork conversion.
I found that hitting the head of the bolt with a sizable hammer, and a good amount of force first helps convince the bolt to cooporate.
Now if you have a stripped allen head bolt, i have taken a torx bit and hammered it into the stripped bolt to the point that the bit cuts into the bolt head. But i think you said it was rotor bolts, and those are already torx, so a slot and should help. I would still hit it hard with a hammer first....makes you feel better also, just remember to focus your jedi hammer skilll as to not deflect impact to any other unsuspecting bits.
Quote from: Langanobob on October 21, 2009, 12:46:43 AM
McMaster-Carr is a great place. They have literally everything, and at reasonable prices and stuff usually ships the same day.
Definitely. They are a good supply company.
Quote from: Langanobob on October 21, 2009, 12:46:43 AM
McMaster-Carr is a great place. They have literally everything, and at reasonable prices and stuff usually ships the same day.
+2, we use them a lot at my work. [thumbsup]
I rounded out the heads of two bolts on the handlebar clamp. I tried everything from a torx bit, drilling it out, using easy outs, jb weld'ing a bit into them, applying heat, all those tricks. In my frustration I finally grabbed another allen bit a little larger than the hole, hammered it in for a couple minutes, and that finally was enough contact for the torque wrench to work. Very frustrating.
Easy way is to use a hammer operated impact driver to loosen the bolts. Works every time.
FYI propane is probably not enough heat to do much good.
okay now it deserves to be in tech. thanks ducpainter lol
why isnt propane good enough to melt the threadlocker? works great for me. when i flipped it over and heated up every bolt for 30 seconds they all came out easily.
IMHO the BEST way to remove a stripped bolt is to
Apply HEAT, slot it, and hit it with a screw driver and hammer. works everytime.
Quote from: 64duc on October 21, 2009, 10:57:29 AM
FYI propane is probably not enough heat to do much good.
I disagree. Melting the fastener to the substrate is not the objective. Heating the area just enough so that any threadlocker is softened and slightly expanding the metal in the fastener so that any seized threads are freed is the objective. One doesn't drive 8 penny nails with a 12lb sledge.
Quote from: RB on October 21, 2009, 03:50:03 AM
had the same issue with my triples when i did the GSXR fork conversion.
I found that hitting the head of the bolt with a sizable hammer, and a good amount of force first helps convince the bolt to cooporate.
+1. If a bolt doesn't feel like it's going to let go with reasonable force a shot of Liquid Wrench and a sharp whack with a small hammer is usually enough to loosen it and get it moving. If it's in a tight spot you can insert an allen socket and hammer that. It may ruin the socket but I'd rather do that than strip a bolt.
Also +1 on the fact that a propane torch will usually heat a bolt enough to soften threadlocker.
I think for Ducati OEM the gold colored bolts are the ones with the anti-corrosion coating, stopped using them around '03. The sliver ones on later bikes corrode more easily.
Scott
QuoteIf a bolt doesn't feel like it's going to let go with reasonable force a shot of Liquid Wrench and a sharp whack with a small hammer is usually enough to loosen it and get it moving. If it's in a tight spot you can insert an allen socket and hammer that. It may ruin the socket but I'd rather do that than strip a bolt.
+1, several hard whacks, then heat. Then WD40 over night.
And the hard part,
sometimes you just have to realize it`s a no-go and try next day.
Not so easy when frustrated.... [evil] [roll] ;)
Been there, done that, you have my empathy, HeMan...
Quote from: greenmonster on October 21, 2009, 04:52:28 PM
sometimes you just have to realize it`s a no-go and try next day.
make the beast with two backs that shit. IF i start today, i intend to finish today. [evil] I guess when i re-powdercoat my wheels ill have a nice video tutorial on how to get those make the beast with two backsers out eh? lol
the only reason i wanted to remove my rotors is because i didnt want to lay my rotors on my home made bead breaker.
Quote from: He Man on October 21, 2009, 05:31:00 PM
snip.....
the only reason i wanted to remove my rotors is because i didnt want to lay my rotors on my home made bead breaker.
I don't believe you because there are no pictures...and no i didn't use the search function to find 'He Man's homemade bead breaker thingy'
Quote from: RB on October 22, 2009, 05:58:49 AM
I don't believe you because there are no pictures...and no i didn't use the search function to find 'He Man's homemade bead breaker thingy'
slacker
Quote from: RB on October 22, 2009, 05:58:49 AM
I don't believe you because there are no pictures...and no i didn't use the search function to find 'He Man's homemade bead breaker thingy'
You cant call TTIUWOP if you dont search for it!
ok i lied. i never psoted pics up. but i did mention it here. Ill post pics of it when i borrow a camera... its made of scrap steel nad uses a gas pipe as levering arm. works great. Im building a "well" for it so i cam lay the rim on a piece of plastic and have the discs sit in the cavity next time. works great cause it weighs about 60lbs and doesnt require it to be bolted down anywhere. All you need is 2 tire irons and some plastic shims to keep them from scratching!
http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=22204.0 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=22204.0)
Quote from: He Man on October 22, 2009, 02:34:45 PM
You cant call TTIUWOP if you dont search for it!
ok i lied. i never psoted pics up. but i did mention it here
http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=22204.0 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=22204.0)
you're a slacker too.
TTIUWOP... this thread is useless without pictures.
i am definitely a slacker....easily distracted....but i did use the search function to look up this acronym....you guys are killing me with this stuff...last month i had to ask what DIMBY meant....cuz i didn't use the search function...thanks DP.
He Man, thanks, i would really like to see this contraption of yours.
but back to the thread....
edit: haha...i can use the google search fine...tire change (http://wristtwisters.com/mechanical-technical/20714-tire-change.html)
Any steel bolt, no matter what the grade, can cause a big headache when it is threaded into aluminum. Once galvanic corrosion sets in, the two dissimilar metals can just about weld themselves together.
My method of breaking them free is a shot of PB Blaster and a couple good whacks with a hammer or impact driver. If that doesn't work, I'll resort to using heat, but you need to be carefull not to heat the aluminum past 400F or you will anneal the aluminum.
(http://kuixihe.com/zenphoto/zp-core/ducati-techical-photography/BeadBreaker.JPG.php?z&p=full-image)
and
But this one is pretty flawed, it wont fit inside the hub. Though its not a big deal because more than 1/2 of it will catch so i dont care.
(http://kuixihe.com/zenphoto/zp-core/ducati-techical-photography/CutchHoldingTool.JPG.php?z&p=full-image)
nice 1
i particularly like how you placed the penny there for scale.
Yeah, cause we don't know how big the clutch hub is...
theres all sorts of shit on my floor. I didnt even notice the penny was there... i guess that means i need to sweep!
[thumbsup]
Did you weld that stuff yourself? What kind of welder? Sorry if it's been covered in a different thread.
its just stick welding. its not pretty but it ill hold.
Looks fine to me. And, there's no such thing as "just" stick welding. Stick welding is probably the best and strongest type of welding. MIG is for girlymen welders.
Isn't stick welding way harder to learn too?
Scott
Quote from: scott_araujo on October 28, 2009, 09:48:39 AM
Isn't stick welding way harder to learn too?
Scott
Scott, I'm far from a proficient welder myself and what follows is just my opinion and certainly not gospel. I think that to become a good welder in any type of welding is not so easy. The problem with MIG is that a beginner can lay down what looks like a nice bead, and we think it's easy to learn. But the proof is in testing and too often MIG welds that look pretty don't have enough penetration and are weak. Not to say that there's anything wrong with MIG welds done by a skilled welder.
I think it's easier for a beginner to get a strong weld with stick. An example is He Man's bead breaker. There may be prettier things to look at but it's strong and functional which is what counts. If he'd MIG welded it, assuming he's a beginning MIG welder, it would probably look better, but likely not be as strong.
I have friends who are professional high pressure cross-country pipeline welders (stick) and they can weld upside down on the bottom of a pipe better than I can weld a flat plate laying flat on a bench. They also do not use MIG welding on the high pressure pipelines, I think it's a matter of code and approved procedures. The first pass is sometimes done with TIG, I think to eliminate any possible slag inside the pipe and the rest of the passes are done with stick. But they use MIG in their shops for fabricating things because it's fast and convenient.
Edit: But yeah, you're probably right that stick is harder to learn.
Quote from: Langanobob on October 28, 2009, 07:09:29 AM
Looks fine to me. And, there's no such thing as "just" stick welding. Stick welding is probably the best and strongest type of welding. MIG is for girlymen welders.
choke on my flux! my MIG beads will always look better than your stick.
how i began stick welding
Clean parts
Crank amperage up.
ground
Dot the i's
STAB AND DRAG
joking...well only half way. My brother is a professional welder, but other than that, i dont claim to know what im doing that much, just that what i build works great. I had to rebuild it 3 times cause the welds kept snapping when i was applying the force to break the bead. hence the massive welds and massive pieces.
Quote from: ducatiz on October 28, 2009, 11:00:54 AM
choke on my flux! my MIG beads will always look better than your stick.
Read my above comments on the difference between looking better and actually being better [cheeky]
And I stole the girlyman reference from Ahhnold. Didn't really mean it!
Quote from: Langanobob on October 28, 2009, 11:09:24 AM
Read my above comments on the difference between looking better and actually being better [cheeky]
And I stole the girlyman reference from Ahhnold. Didn't really mean it!
it all depends on the intended use. i know stick is better than mig for some things, but damn i love mig over stick for ease.
Spend some time welding with OxyAcetylene if you want to improve your welding skills.
You can *see* what's going on, and you learn a lot from that.
Really, it's all just related to 'seat time', with a little instruction.
In most cases, if your weld bead is wider than the thickness of the material, and it's breaking, you're doing it wrong.
Big +1 to starting out with an oxy acetylene setup first. It is much slower than both stick and mig/tig welding, but because it is slower you can really see and understand what is going on. ie, forming a puddle and keeping it moving, too much/too little heat, or too much/too little rod.
^ Agreed.
Seems like OA is rapidly falling out of favor these days, and now that plasma torches are common it's not even used as much for cutting. It is a good way to start and is a more forgiving and "elegant" form of welding. Not sure when TIG or HeliArc came into common usage but I think most all of the WWII 4130 airframes and aluminum parts were gas welded.
OA isn't just for beginning and the guy at Tinman Tech, an acknowledge metal working master, really pushes gas welding, especially for aluminum. www.tinmantech.com (http://www.tinmantech.com)
Quote from: Langanobob on October 28, 2009, 10:44:52 AM
Scott, I'm far from a proficient welder myself and what follows is just my opinion and certainly not gospel. I think that to become a good welder in any type of welding is not so easy. The problem with MIG is that a beginner can lay down what looks like a nice bead, and we think it's easy to learn. But the proof is in testing and too often MIG welds that look pretty don't have enough penetration and are weak. Not to say that there's anything wrong with MIG welds done by a skilled welder.
I think it's easier for a beginner to get a strong weld with stick. An example is He Man's bead breaker. There may be prettier things to look at but it's strong and functional which is what counts. If he'd MIG welded it, assuming he's a beginning MIG welder, it would probably look better, but likely not be as strong.
I have friends who are professional high pressure cross-country pipeline welders (stick) and they can weld upside down on the bottom of a pipe better than I can weld a flat plate laying flat on a bench. They also do not use MIG welding on the high pressure pipelines, I think it's a matter of code and approved procedures. The first pass is sometimes done with TIG, I think to eliminate any possible slag inside the pipe and the rest of the passes are done with stick. But they use MIG in their shops for fabricating things because it's fast and convenient.
Edit: But yeah, you're probably right that stick is harder to learn.
I know more about welding than I can perform. ;)
Welds that work come down to process...
Mig is not a penetration process, but rather a deposition process.
Stick normally penetrates better than Mig, so the welds are perceived to be better because they seem to work when others fail.
That's why we have engineers.... :P [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh]
To design welds...and processes that fail. ;D
^
DP, that is really a good post. ;D If you composed it yourself if is even more better.
The best I can manage in response is that:
If God wanted there to be painters
He wouldn't 've given us rattlecans.
Okay, so He Man, what kind of bolts did you end up getting to replace the ones you had and where are you going to get them from? I am going to replace my bolts too. I was informed about some chrome plated bolts but I don't remember where to get them from. I don't want to spring the money for titanium.
Quote from: Langanobob on October 28, 2009, 10:26:57 PM
^
DP, that is really a good post. ;D If you composed it yourself if is even more better.
The best I can manage in response is that:
If God wanted there to be painters
He wouldn't 've given us rattlecans.
He gave you those rattlecans so you can justify the dogshit results because you were too cheap to hire a pro. :P
That was in jest in case there was any doubt.
Quote from: uclabiker06 on November 01, 2009, 12:05:26 PM
Okay, so He Man, what kind of bolts did you end up getting to replace the ones you had and where are you going to get them from? I am going to replace my bolts too. I was informed about some chrome plated bolts but I don't remember where to get them from. I don't want to spring the money for titanium.
Im going with 12.9 steel or someshit, i scoped them out, havent ordered them yet since i have no need to remove my rotors right now. But i figure ill just buy a big box (50?) since they are also the same rotors on a few other bikes that my friends own as well. I can cut 12 out for you if you want. you wouldnt save much though lol
Quote from: He Man on November 01, 2009, 06:06:13 PM
Im going with 12.9 steel or someshit, i scoped them out, havent ordered them yet since i have no need to remove my rotors right now. But i figure ill just buy a big box (50?) since they are also the same rotors on a few other bikes that my friends own as well. I can cut 12 out for you if you want. you wouldnt save much though lol
where are you getting them? maryland metrics?
12.9 is about the strongest you can find.
ill have to search it again. it doesnt seem to be in my favorites... ill post up when i find it.
"I can cut 12 out for you if you want. you wouldnt save much though lol"
Nah, I'm good. I'm set on trying to find the chrome coated bolts [evil] ... thanks though HeMan. Actually just found the link to the place that (according to Mr. Duc-Stew) carries chrome coated bolts; his wonderful idea not mine. These bolts probably would pass for Titanium to the naked eye! Anyways here is the link to the place. Guess you have to click on products then bolts http://www.dmpolish.com/tips.htm (http://www.dmpolish.com/tips.htm)
Anybody know the bolt size for '06 S2R800 front rotors?