The more and more I ride my bike, the more I feel its just not balanced right. The rear sag is correct, and Im a 160lbs rider. I feel the front is way too light, especially accelerating out of corners. I always have to tuck and pull myself forward on the bars. Way forward. What would be the best approach to biasing the weight forward more? I was thinking of lowering the triples 5mm front and raising the rear a tad. Could this be too drastic a change? I thought about getting SM bars, but Im pretty happy with the reach to my bars.
What are my options besides buying an 848? ;D
stop in time did some great mods to his bike although it was a 695, but it's a good starting point. also ducati indianapolis (go to their tech article section) is working on some mods for a 696 of one of the guys here.
i would research both of them to give you some ideas.
what damper setting are you using on the rear. it kind sounds like that may be set too soft. there's not a lot of tq on the 696 so you can't be lifting the front, more likely your rear is too soft and being squashed down too quickly.
(my Monster is a S2R 800, thank you very much >:()
;D
696 has a progressive rear spring. Those are nice and comfortable, but not aimed at aggressive riding. A linear spring combined with any adjustments you can do to the stock shock will set you up for far better cornering. If you have full control over what this is about, do it yourself - otherwise let a competent suspension shop do it for you.
Compared with the previous Monster generation, the 696/1100 are much more willing to turn and I think they have more forward weight as well. You can raise the rear and lower the front, but I don't know if that is what you need. Rear suspension first - experience - wait for good fork upgrade options - experience - then, maybe, work on the geometry.
I have to make breakfast now - WSBK is on EuroSport [thumbsup] Ask again/more later!
Quote from: stopintime on October 25, 2009, 03:42:13 AM
(my Monster is a S2R 800, thank you very much >:()
you say tomato i say tomato. wait... that doesn't translate well to written form.
still an old style monster... but i'll give you the motor's cc's ;)
Quote from: Raux on October 25, 2009, 04:05:10 AM
still an old style the übercool monster... but and i'll give you the motor's cc's ;)
and single swing and shot gun exhaust and dual peg assemblies and higher seat and suspension in both fork legs...
Do you have those features? [evil]
;D
Quote from: stopintime on October 25, 2009, 06:12:21 AM
and single swing and shot gun exhaust and dual peg assemblies and higher seat and suspension in both fork legs...
Do you have those features? [evil]
;D
ooo he's getting riled up ;)
i know you have a cool bike. and sorry i should have said i 'think' it's a 695.
;D
Quote from: stopintime on October 25, 2009, 03:42:13 AM
Rear suspension first - experience - wait for good fork upgrade options - experience - then, maybe, work on the geometry.
That sounds like a good approach. Thanks.
Quote from: animatronik on October 25, 2009, 11:26:34 AM
That sounds like a good approach. Thanks.
so what damper setting are you running? there are 16 clicks. stock of course is middle.
The screw on my shock doesnt click for some reason. I was playing with it today and found the screw to be about 2/3rds to max.. I turned it to max and coming out of corners was awesome... felt planted...but only on smooth pavement. I think the damping was perfect at about 7/8, but maybe I need a stiffer spring? Anyways, thanks for the tip. Completely forgot that the rear was adjustable. Funny thing was that it made the fork feel softer. But I think Im happy once I get the rear sorted.
Quote from: animatronik on October 25, 2009, 08:32:58 PM
The screw on my shock doesnt click for some reason. I was playing with it today and found the screw to be about 2/3rds to max.. I turned it to max and coming out of corners was awesome... felt planted...but only on smooth pavement. I think the damping was perfect at about 7/8, but maybe I need a stiffer spring? Anyways, thanks for the tip. Completely forgot that the rear was adjustable. Funny thing was that it made the fork feel softer. But I think Im happy once I get the rear sorted.
use a very very light touch on the screw and you'll feel the clicks. it's not a CLICK CLICK more a
tick tick
+1 on ditching the progressive springs. Made mine a joy to ride going to linear.
getting rid of the progressive spring? the springs are linear i thought just the geometry gives it progression.
what spring are you using? how much? what color?
Quote from: Raux on October 27, 2009, 12:39:06 PM
getting rid of the progressive spring? the springs are linear i thought just the geometry gives it progression.
what spring are you using? how much? what color?
Monster springs are progressive...at least the rear anyway.
The fronts might be too.
The rear spring on my S2R1000 is Linear. the 696 looks to be progressive though.
Quote from: He Man on October 27, 2009, 02:13:37 PM
The rear spring on my S2R1000 is Linear. the 696 looks to be progressive though.
You sure?
696 progressive
1100 linear
I have no idea what's in the forks though
S*R bikes are all linear rear springs (93.56 % sure), linkage make it work progressive.
If the spring spacing between the windings gets tighter you have a progressive spring. The 696 spring is progressive.
Quote from: stopintime on October 27, 2009, 02:46:53 PM
696 progressive
1100 linear
I have no idea what's in the forks though
S*R bikes are all linear rear springs (93.56 % sure), linkage make it work progressive.
Ducati has been using progressive rear springs on Monsters since the beginning...
I'm skeptical that all of a sudden they've changed.
If Ducati's photographs are accurate (questionable), 696 and 1100 are progressive, 1100s linear.
If my memory is accurate (questionable), SR 1000 is linear. All 2 valve DSS Monsters are progressive, no recall about the S4.
Quote from: ducpainter on October 27, 2009, 06:00:31 PM
Ducati has been using progressive rear springs on Monsters since the beginning...
I'm skeptical that all of a sudden they've changed.
+1
I think the only Monster straight-rate shock springs are the ones that came on OEM Ohlins.
AFAIK, all Monster forks other than S4 and S4R,s,t came with progressive springs.
Quote from: Speeddog on October 27, 2009, 07:40:07 PM
+1
I think the only Monster straight-rate shock springs are the ones that came on OEM Ohlins.
AFAIK, all Monster forks other than S4 and S4R,s,t came with progressive springs.
well that's good the S4R forks i picked up are the non-progressive.
Mouseman, tell me more about the spring.
What is the big problem with these bikes suspensions? Mine feels good but: 1. I haven't had it that long or ridden it very hard. 2. I am 195lbs.
I remember Randy Mamola oncw commenting that " He was the adjustable feature" on the bike he was to ride.. What works for 195 is too hard for 135.. Don
So i think i need to upgrade my rear eventually. My wife and like to take the 696 to lake michigan in the summer an hour away, and the rear just isn't cutting it. way too soft, even for me, i weigh 210 lbs alone...
is my only option the $1700 1100 suspension?
http://www.store.commoto.com/ducati-monster-6961100-ohlins-rear-shock-p-4115.html (http://www.store.commoto.com/ducati-monster-6961100-ohlins-rear-shock-p-4115.html)
this is way too much, but i want something adjustable!
what about other showa shocks, i don't need ohlins, just a better than what i got now
thanks
Quote from: DucatiTorrey on February 24, 2010, 05:22:21 AM
So i think i need to upgrade my rear eventually. My wife and like to take the 696 to lake michigan in the summer an hour away, and the rear just isn't cutting it. way too soft, even for me, i weigh 210 lbs alone...
is my only option the $1700 1100 suspension?
http://www.store.commoto.com/ducati-monster-6961100-ohlins-rear-shock-p-4115.html (http://www.store.commoto.com/ducati-monster-6961100-ohlins-rear-shock-p-4115.html)
this is way too much, but i want something adjustable!
what about other showa shocks, i don't need ohlins, just a better than what i got now
thanks
The correct spring for your weight will go a
long way to making that shock adequate for your use.
Try it before you drop that kind of money on a new blingy shock.
Quote from: DucatiTorrey on February 24, 2010, 05:22:21 AM
So i think i need to upgrade my rear eventually. My wife and like to take the 696 to lake michigan in the summer an hour away, and the rear just isn't cutting it. way too soft, even for me, i weigh 210 lbs alone...
is my only option the $1700 1100 suspension?
http://www.store.commoto.com/ducati-monster-6961100-ohlins-rear-shock-p-4115.html (http://www.store.commoto.com/ducati-monster-6961100-ohlins-rear-shock-p-4115.html)
this is way too much, but i want something adjustable!
what about other showa shocks, i don't need ohlins, just a better than what i got now
thanks
When I got my new spring, riding with a passenger didn't feel wobbly at all. So, a +1 to what DP said.
If you want easy preload adjustability (remote clic clic wheel/nub mounted on the frame) to increase safety with a passenger - at least my shock manufacturer, WP, makes one for later upgrades. Costs about $250, but I don't know if it will suit your shock.
search for the Ohlins DU 737. I've seen them for around $700. It's what I'm planning on using. See below link.
http://www.ohlins.com/Our-products/Motorcycle/Products/Sport/DU-737/ (http://www.ohlins.com/Our-products/Motorcycle/Products/Sport/DU-737/)
EDIT: Just looked at IndyDucati's project bike, it's the same shock.
Quote from: ducpainter on February 24, 2010, 05:26:01 AM
The correct spring for your weight will go a long way to making that shock adequate for your use.
Try it before you drop that kind of money on a new blingy shock.
soooo, I can get a better spring alone? not a whole shock? hmmm
Quote from: z0mb1e_DUC on February 24, 2010, 07:08:08 AM
http://www.ohlins.com/Our-products/Motorcycle/Products/Sport/DU-737/ (http://www.ohlins.com/Our-products/Motorcycle/Products/Sport/DU-737/)
is this the 1100 shock? or an ohlins version of a 696
just took a look at my stock 696 shock vs an Ohlins race shock for Xaus' old bike. think i'm going to sway things out, but looks like an easy swap to change the spring one for one. the 696 definitely is a progressive spring and the Ohlins will be linear.
DucatiTorrey, maybe find an stiffer spring and just swap them out.
Quote from: ducpainter on February 24, 2010, 05:26:01 AM
The correct spring for your weight will go a long way to making that shock adequate for your use.
Try it before you drop that kind of money on a new blingy shock.
+1, and springs are usually about $100. I put heavier straight rate springs in the fork of my 800 Dark. I'll be doing the same to the stock rear shock when I get some spare cash.
Scott
i talked to my dealer, they are hard to work with, they seem to not want to do any "mods" to my bike. I asked about rear springs, and they said they could do that with a revalve job (whats that?) but he said he doesn't like to do front springs or internals, it "really tears you shock up". cant wait to move to denver to get a new dealer to work with. They ahve also been giving me shit about lifting the rear shock with the 1100 spacer. Sorry for the rant.
I emailed Ohlins about the new spring
"A stiffer replacement spring will help with load carrying capacity & ride height issues. But the extra energy of the stiffer spring rate puts extra stress on the (already weak) stock shock. This breaks down the oil inside quicker & the resulting high heat could damage the shock. Oil seal failure is also a real possibility. Worst case, the ride will be springy, bouncy etc.
You really need the whole package for a safe, comfortable ride but we understand it is a large investment."
yeah if i was making money selling Ohlins at those prices i would say the same thing.
you aren't tracking the bike. you are just getting a spring to match your weight.
revalving involves changing the internals of the shocks front or back to change how they act.
you also can change the front springs very easily on the 696. there is only one shock on the front of the 696 though. so it is cheaper to revalve if you go that way.
honestly everything you are saying about your riding would benefit from stiffer springs front and back. you're relying on the shock to compensate for the extra weight.
call up Indy Ducati. they have done all this on a 696 with great results.
Great thanks. i'll start with a new spring and revalve in the rear this spring.
thanks Raux. Hows the weather in Germany?
Quote from: DucatiTorrey on February 27, 2010, 05:21:29 AM
Great thanks. i'll start with a new spring and revalve in the rear this spring.
thanks Raux. Hows the weather in Germany?
really you should check out Ducati Indy's tech article on the 696. they mention how they changed the springs front and rear and what the differences did.
freaking riding weather and my bike is still in parts
so after talking with my dealer he said adjusting the height on the front forks to level out the geometry is feasible, but will leave marks where the triples were. I'm doing it anyways, but anyone know how to clean this up, or if you even can? its it going to be scratches or just "grime".
TIA
Torrey
Quote from: DucatiTorrey on March 08, 2010, 04:10:32 AM
so after talking with my dealer he said adjusting the height on the front forks to level out the geometry is feasible, but will leave marks where the triples were. I'm doing it anyways, but anyone know how to clean this up, or if you even can? its it going to be scratches or just "grime".
TIA
Torrey
I wouldn't count on him being correct.
regarding the comment from Ohlins. It is true that if the spring is changed and the stock damping was correct for the spring the oil will burn up and you won't gain much. The thing about Ducati components is they are typically under sprung and over damped. When you change the spring you are bringing the designed spring and damping rates closer together.
I'd try it before I spent oodles of cash on a shock.
Quote from: ducpainter on March 08, 2010, 04:18:54 AM
. When you change the spring you are bringing the designed spring and damping rates closer together.
even if its an ohlins spring / stock shock? i'd like to learn more about this.
Quote from: ducpainter on March 08, 2010, 04:18:54 AM
I'd try it before I spent oodles of cash on a shock.
absolutely
Quote from: DucatiTorrey on March 08, 2010, 04:37:05 AM
even if its an ohlins spring / stock shock? i'd like to learn more about this.
absolutely
Doesn't matter the spring brand.
The only reason a shock has damping is to control the spring. Without damping it would be like a pogo stick.
The spring controls your and the machine weight. There is only one (ideal) weight spring for that particular combination.
So the first step is to get the correct spring on the shock/forks for you and your machine and then figure out the valving characteristics required to control that weight spring.
Quote from: DucatiTorrey on February 24, 2010, 08:40:07 AM
soooo, I can get a better spring alone? not a whole shock? hmmmis this the 1100 shock? or an ohlins version of a 696
It's the 696 application specific shock, per Ohlins website. It might very well be the actual shock from the 1100s, just sold as the 696 model, who knows? FYI, it's the same one from DucatiIndy's project bike.
Quote from: ducpainter on March 08, 2010, 04:49:40 AM
Doesn't matter the spring brand.
The only reason a shock has damping is to control the spring. Without damping it would be like a pogo stick.
The spring controls your and the machine weight. There is only one (ideal) weight spring for that particular combination.
So the first step is to get the correct spring on the shock/forks for you and your machine and then figure out the valving characteristics required to control that weight spring.
thank you
Quote from: z0mb1e_DUC on March 08, 2010, 05:12:19 AM
and thank you
It's the 696 application specific shock, per Ohlins website. It might very well be the actual shock from the 1100s, just sold as the 696 model, who knows? FYI, it's the same one from DucatiIndy's project bike.