Ducati Monster Forum

Rossi throwing his weight around....

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2009/Nov/091109-qa7.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2009/Nov/091109-qa7.htm)

http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=25778.msg551029#msg551029 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=25778.msg551029#msg551029)
 ;D

I was going for the 'cracks in Rossi's armor' angle....  ;)

A little Vagisil will clear that right up for him.  Seriously, is he that much of a pussy that he can't have a teammate that can actually push him?

as it has been said before by others and am now saying...it isn't a teamate to push him....it is the fact that his teamate has pushed Yamaha to lean towards him being their #1 rider as appoased to Valentino who with Burgess has done a make the beast with two backston of development on that machine to make it what it is now before Jorge even walked into that garage....Jorge has taken full advantage of Rossi's work in applying it, but make no mistake...the M1 is a product of Valentino in many ways....and Rossi has provided more that data and development...he has produced results...

now if you think it is undeserved for Valentino to be Yamaha's #1 rider...I would like to know why you think so....but if you look at any other team where 1 rider is producing and the teamate isn't and the level of cooperation and information sharing...Pedro-Bot when Hayden was his teamate, Colin Edwards and James Toseland this year, Elias and DeAngelis....all of them teamates...but run as different squads, because they are competeing against one another....so of course there is a wall between em....and the team is looking at the results for support.

It's not like Vale is an old man.  I'd guess he could be the "man" for at least another 5 years.  He's Rossi for fvck sake!!!

This is classic Rossi Jedi mind games, no?  Forces Jorge to feel he has to prove he's the number one guy even more, he rides just a little harder and crashes as much or more then he usually does.  Jorge is right there but he always seems to be on the raged edge to me. The other angle is Ducati is all moist now and the contract negotiations become even more silly and Yamaha ponies up to keep Rossi.

Ben is the heir apparent for the vacant factory seat in 2011 and he should be full stride by his second season.  I don't think he's a cream puff mentally and will Push Vale as a team mate as well.

Sadly, the racing has been pretty boring and the off track stuff is more interesting.  Hoping Ben puts the tech 3 scooter on the box and maybe even gets a win or two next season. At least we have that to keep us warm a IZ_ for the next 5 months.

I had a nice, long reply written but I canned it. 

Rossi is the #1 at Yamaha and he should be.  The M1 is his bike.  As you said, he's done all the development work and won the last 2 championships on it.  I realize that there's no such thing as loyalty but the whining just smacks of insecurity and is very childish.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80118 (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80118)

What's the buzz on Yorgay's contributions to the M1's continuing development?

WELL....he's tested the crash worthyness of the M1 more than a couple times....

the M1 is yamaha's bike. they can hand out tech to whoever they want.

iirc, didn't honda do the same?

i don't think that was the point he was trying to make.

rossi/burgess developed both the rc211v and the yzr-m1 into what they are today, just as doohan/burgess developed the nsr500 into the championship winning machine that it turned out to be.

but if the sentiment is that it's unfair to let one race crew develop a machine then let other rider take advantage of it, well... isn't that the point of the factory team? the factory ultimately owns the bike, and can do what they want.

 ???

I would guess that the argument would be that Rossi should retain #1 status and receive any updates before You'reGhey in the event that updates need to be staggered because he's done and continues to do all the development. Wall wise, now that Rossi is being challenged, I'm sure he feels somewhat disinclined to share any setup information with the other side of the pit. Yes, it's up to the team to distribute whatever bits they want but maintaining a #1 status should mean preference where there's some option one way or the other.

that makes sense...

but even if they're given identical tech, I'd think it'd make it more satisfying to lay the stomp on your teammate. just let the points speak for themselves and go home happy... isn't motoGP supposed to be about the rider, not the bike?  :)

and rossi has always been the uber

In theory yes, let the points speak for themselves but Rossi plays any way he needs to in order to win. This is just one of his tactics.

According to some return sniping from Yorgie, Rossi was using his race settings the morning of, when he and Burgess were unable to rectify certain issues.

I believe I've seen that Yamaha uses the open door policy with the sharing of setup, and nothing wrong with that at all, but its definately not Rossi getting it completely right all the time.

I think Rossi deserves #1 status due to his history and work with Yamaha, but nobody is perfect.

I agree, I think Rossi should be #1 until Youreghey actually wins the title, then there could be some discussion. Until then, STFU. ;)

 ;D

 [laugh]

Rossi may never get used to the cultural oddities of the Japanese (Yamaha and Honda) and how that affects the ways he's treated.....it's a pretty tightly wound culture where they might not see Rossi or Lorenzo as much more than 'highly specialized and talented employees' and can't understand all the ego-driven behavior.

Perhaps Rossi should join forces with KR and Foggy and run his own team... [popcorn]

I don't know that you can do a comparison between what Rossi is and what Youreghey will become or what Rossi has accomplished and what Youreghey might (to put it another way). If Yourghey wins next year (I'm backing Stoner - there's a surprise!) and Rossi isn't close then why would the factory wait? Rossi's nearing the end of his career. What he has done doesn't mean that he'll win again, what he is defines his status in the team. Right now, he's still the best in the world, next year that might not be the case.

Now, go ahead and attack semantics if you want but the team needs to focus on what's best for the team, if Youreghey is getting better results, it serves the team and Yamaha to put him first and not wait until Youreghey has managed to even approach one of the greatest riders of all time.

What's best for Yamaha as a racing team would be to keep Lorenzo and Spies on the factory team next year and let Rossi go.  From a marketing standpoint, its really difficult, but for the long run you keep the young 20 somethings and its time for Rossi to close out his career with the challenge of creating a Ducati everyone can win on.

Who knows.  In the end Rossi may stay a few more years and Lorenzo bolts.  I could see the top four doing a bit of a merry go round next year anyway.

that's the magic bullet right there.  they don't just want the italian superstar GOAT, they want rossi + burgess.  those two are batting a thousand on developing championship winning machines.  and just a few months ago the desmo was being called the 'career killer'; even rookies with a chance to enter the series were turning it down.

so you give one of rossi's buddies suppo's job, turn in an expense request to phillip morris for several gajillion dollars, and go after them with guns blazing hoping... begging.. for them to win you an italian-italian championship but, almost more importantly, turn their disaster of a bike into the next RC211V or M1.

I'm not understanding why you think getting Spies on the factory team & letting Rossi goes makes sense? I mean, right now, Spies is the definition of unproven and Rossi just won the championship. Not to mention that I'm not sure (no one outside the factory is sure I would say) how much Lorenzo contributes to development, sames goes for Spies. In Spies' case, what bike do you end up with if you let the WSBK guy develop it? I really don't think that it follows to exchange Rossi for Spies until Rossi is on a downward trend in terms of results or at least The Ben is on an upward trend. If The Ben is beating CE2 consistently next year in qualifying and results then that would be an upward trend in my mind.

As far as letting Rossi go to Ducati, that really doesn't seem like a great idea for Yamaha. Even if he doesn't win the title next year, letting someone of his talent and skill go to a competitor who already wins a lot of races in favor of Spies seems a little foolhardy to me.

Agreed.  I think it would be a big mistake for Yamaha.  It would be great for us, though, as Rossi would most likely go on a quest to destroy Yamaha.  I don't have anything against Yamaha, but I think that would make for an exciting season!

rossi sounds like he's actually happy at yamaha. i doubt it'd be like his quest to destroy honda.

If Yamaha dropped him in favor of Spies, you don't think he'd be highly motivated to win on another bike?  I dunno, it just seems like him.

probably, i just don't see that happening*.

i think rossi is going to stay put unless something drastic happens. you just don't let a guy like that go. you definitely don't push him into your rival's garage.

if things go like last time when contract season comes around, i wouldn't at all be surprised to see lorenzo jump ship. he's already played the "i want more money or i'll leave" card**, yamaha has already said "this is what we're going to pay you, take it or leave it," and rossi has already said "him or me."

* then again, it still amazes me that ferrari somehow justified pushing schumacher out the door when he obviously still "had it."

** and he stayed... probably a good move on his part to stay on the m1, but he won't be able to play that card again.

Wall is now semi-official?

http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/156560/1/rossi_and_lorenzo_stop_sharing_data.html (http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/156560/1/rossi_and_lorenzo_stop_sharing_data.html)

"the fun team"? lol

Rossi's in the right on this one IMO.  Did you watch the FIAT interviews?  George basically says that he is relying on Rossi to develop the bike so that George can go fast.  Rossi's right to complain that he is being made to develop a bike (With no input from Jorge) that is being given to one of his chief rivals.  Let George win on his own. 

I really hope they're not teammates next year.

easy money bet they won't be.

Wonder if anyone will actually bet that they remain teammates?  I might have to wander over to the 2011 Silly Season thread to see.   ;D

=)

i know it's ridiculous that that thread already exists.. but this year silly season is all year.

let them fight a duel....

crew chiefs at five paces  [popcorn]

Mebbe - if Rossi wins the championship in 2010, then he stays with Yamaha until he retires.  If not, I can see him going elsewhere to try for the three-peat.  Maybe Kawasaki can be tempted back in?  But I still like the idea of him on something out of left field.  IMO, among all the riders, only Rossi can attract sponsor's millions without much difficulty.

I don't see Rossi going anywhere until he loses the championship.  When he does, whoever pics him up will have a very motivated rider.  That is the key with Rossi you have to challenge him and keep him motivated. 

Jorge will likely go to Honda b/c he has the killer instinct/aggressiveness Dani doesn't.

Spies being unproven in MotoGP would grab my ear if he didn't set all kinds of records in his ROOKIE/Title winning season for WSBK.  I didn't want him to be that good, but he just is and has the mental strength to challenge Rossi....he will be on the podium more than once this year  [popcorn]

Ducati is stuck with Stoner....thats a good thing, cause the guy is gonna light things on fire this year (warmup highsides excluded).  He is not going anywhere unless Ducati builds the Ark(w/$100 bills) and Rossi walks out of it.

My curve ball, Spies has the chance to get sniped from Yamaha this year.  I think Ben, would go for the big bucks and developing a 1000cc GP bike into a championship winner.  It will be hard to pry him from the Yams, but there is a chance and Ducati has the right cards to do it.

I know, I know....I'll copy and paste into the 2011 Silly Season thread.....so, walls are good, we all like the rivalry  [coffee]

i think spies has a 2 year contract.

he's already signed with yamaha through 2011.

didn't he lose it in 2006 and 2007?  :)

Nah, he just loaned it out for a while.

Well, now we will see how well Rossi can do without being able to rip off Jorge's set-up.

 [laugh]

RightO....I mean he can get swiped for 2012 and beyond to develop his own 1000cc GP bike creating his own legacy.


I should clarify....if he loses the championship to another Yamaha.  I could see him going to Ducati, but not if Casey holds the title....he will only go if he can develop the bike and win on it...that is the challenge Rossi is seeking.  If he stays on bikes he only has two manufacturers to choose from, continue with Yamaha or write the Hollywood ending with Ducati

Ooops! Hope Jorge doesn't hurt his hand some more during one of his inevitable race crashes he will have chasing Valle!

http://www.cyclenews.com/articles/road-racing/2010/02/12/lorenzo-injured-in-motocross-crash (http://www.cyclenews.com/articles/road-racing/2010/02/12/lorenzo-injured-in-motocross-crash)

ironic since he said @ sepang that he had spent too much time on a motox bike during the break

So if George is missing the next test, and they don't share data anymore... wouldn't you think he's really behind the curve early this season?  He's off Rossi's pace and you'd imagine Rossi will pick up another half second or more at the next test while Yorgie sits at the house.  They should let Spies develop Yorgies bike while he's gone.   :P

Jorge may well end up a bit further behind.

What I remember from what I've seen in print, Spies has been working on his riding technique and not changing the bike much, if at all.

That's what I read too. There's a nice article by Spies on Cyclenews.com that I read yesterday. He has mentioned several times about him adapting his riding style to suit the bike not the other way around. He's a smart cookie, he'll get it figured out... and watch out when he does! He's no Valle beater by any means but I think he will do well. I think he and Edwards will compliment each other and both will profit from it. I see no walls being built in that pit.

Its all good for me.  I have a bottle of Johnny Walker and two stogies riding on Lorenzo not winning the title.  Setbacks are good.

Nice bet! [clap]