Yup,
I like this little gadget... ;)
My father bought a 1981 gs-450 Suz 2cyl this summer to get his interest in bikes back.
He owned f e a Royal Enfield 2cyl 500cc back in the 50`s so I of course fully encourage him.
Gs450 has CDI f spark & mechanichal advance.
Tried w my spare M900 one, started but not perfect.
After mailing enough info of wiring etc, Ignitech shipped a module w 2 alternatives f
the gs450, one advance as is + one adv fixated.
My fathers bike been in an unheated barn f 4 months,
started on 3rd try. :)
Runs good now.
So, any old bike w an ign problem, give Ignitech a try.
They made several of the 80`s Eastern vehicles, like the Trabant f e, work.... :o
In short,
If your 80`s bike w a CDI stops igniting,
try Ignitech.
It is very hard to find a early 80`s jap CDI when they fail,
& when you find one, it is expensive.
Just a tip. ;)
I love my TCIP4 on my 900SS. The ONLY thing I despise about it is the old school DB9 serial port connector.
There's no reason they couldn't put a USB port on it. The PCIII's have them and they are more sophisticated than the Ignitech modules.
They wouldn't have to change much, USB will map to serial just fine and they could possibly put a voltage sap in it too to power the TCI when it's on your desk.
I have a buddy who is a developer and when he has time he's writing a mini app so I can plug my blackberry into my PCIII. If the Ignitech had USB, one could do the same thing. FAR more portable than a laptop on the go.
QuoteThere's no reason they couldn't put a USB port on it.
Answer fr Jan about this:
"We have both USB and COM on some new unit. There is big problems with USB if you want use it when bike is running. USB is very disturbance sensitive. Many PC cannot works with USB when bike is sparking."
Quote from: greenmonster on January 11, 2010, 07:07:20 AM
Answer fr Jan about this:
"We have both USB and COM on some new unit. There is big problems with USB if you want use it when bike is running. USB is very disturbance sensitive. Many PC cannot works with USB when bike is sparking."
IT seems proper shielding should deal with this. It's a huge pain in the ass if you have a laptop that's not 10 years old...
Well,
I just got 14 10 y o laps f free!
OS W98, perfect in your garage f WS manual/spare part PDF`s, pics of mods etc.
And tuning my Ignitech ignition & MyECU on the 907IE w it.
Everybody should have a garage PC, saves trees, recycling etc. :)
Quote from: greenmonster on January 12, 2010, 07:10:35 AM
Well,
I just got 14 10 y o laps f free!
OS W98, perfect in your garage f WS manual/spare part PDF`s, pics of mods etc.
And tuning my Ignitech ignition & MyECU on the 907IE w it.
Everybody should have a garage PC, saves trees, recycling etc. :)
if you can get them for free, then email this to ignitech and maybe they can provide a free old laptop with their TCIP4?
that is my ONLY pregnant dog about the unit. the fact is, once you've got it tuned for your bike, unless you are changing stuff often, you don't need to get into it much. I ~~LOVE~~ my TCIp4 on my 900ss. I cannot rave about them enough.
But just comparing the TCIP4 unit to the PCIIIusb unit, the TCIP4 has that manky serial cable hanging off. At least get rid of the wires and put the RS9 directly onto the box.. :D
ducatiz, how did you go about tuning the tcip4 for your 900ss? Dyno or by looking at the DP1.1/2.4 charts and shooting for those #'s?
Just what kind of curve are you running?
The USB/COM issue may have more things to it than we know, Nemesis have both now,
this quite recent has COM:
(http://www.microtech-efi.com/images_/product/default/4.jpg)
http://www.microtech-efi.com/product/4.html (http://www.microtech-efi.com/product/4.html)
Just meant before that it`s quite a good thing to recycle old laps as garage PC's,
boat GPS`s etc. Check around, I`ll bet you can also find one fr the former century f almost nothing! ;)
Quote from: ato memphis on January 12, 2010, 02:28:06 PM
ducatiz, how did you go about tuning the tcip4 for your 900ss? Dyno or by looking at the DP1.1/2.4 charts and shooting for those #'s?
Just what kind of curve are you running?
dyno. they sent it with a pre-set curve based on the DP 1.1 modules, but it has more steps so it was a smoother curve. that was the starting point.
stock crank, lightened flywheel, bucci alu clutch, stock carbs with a jet kit.
the difference is pretty noticeable, even with the canned curve.
i'd like to swap to FCRs but I am looking for a TPS module to fit so I can use it for retard. the TCI has quite a few input options and one is for a TPS which allows retard.
any chance you could post up the 10 rpm / advance points?
I'm hoping to compile a robust spreadsheet to show what people are running and by category of engine work
Quote from: ato memphis on January 12, 2010, 04:52:35 PM
any chance you could post up the 10 rpm / advance points?
I'm hoping to compile a robust spreadsheet to show what people are running and by category of engine work
sure, i need to download it though. i had an old POS laptop that has since grenaded so i don't have the map stored. let me figure out a way to get it off.
Very cool.
When you plug in, and open the program, you should be able to click "READ" at the top, and that'll take what's on the unit and put it on your PC.
Quote from: ato memphis on January 13, 2010, 05:36:05 AM
Very cool.
When you plug in, and open the program, you should be able to click "READ" at the top, and that'll take what's on the unit and put it on your PC.
yes, dear. you sound like my wife.
if you only knew how familiar i am with this setup, you'd be shocked. i bought a second one and might be putting a hacksaw on it soon... :D
wow! you are far braver than I. Didn't know if you knew you could simply "read" the unit
Quote from: ato memphis on January 13, 2010, 06:41:43 AM
wow! you are far braver than I. Didn't know if you knew you could simply "read" the unit
there is no patent on capacitive discharge ignition units. ;D
certainly not. A quick search on the USPTO does come up with some interesting issued patents related to "motorcycles" and "ignition"
Quote from: ato memphis on January 13, 2010, 09:04:29 AM
certainly not. A quick search on the USPTO does come up with some interesting issued patents related to "motorcycles" and "ignition"
click on --> [roll] (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=32&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&p=1&p=1&S1=((motorcycle+AND+ignition)+AND+programmable)&OS=motorcycle+AND+ignition+AND+programmable&RS=((motorcycle+AND+ignition)+AND+programmable))
The vast number of limitations and specificity of each claim, those specifics being limited to the composition of the handgrip show me a few things, without much more information:
a) its hard to get literal infringement
b) with all the other pre-existing options,
i) its going to be really hard to get doctrine-of-equivalents infringements
ii) there is substantial risk of invalidation should they try to enforce this patent
iii) its usefulness is probably limited to aggressive cease-and-desist letters to folks vending similar grips on the internet. also useful to prevent the importation of chinese clones on eBay.
c) they wasted a ton of money getting this patent prosecuted
Harley has a habit of trying some dumb intellectual property moves. I thought the attempts to trademark the sound made was the dumbest. Here's a writing on the topic, though not necessarily a "good" writing: http://www.bc.edu/bc_org/avp/law/st_org/iptf/articles/content/1998101101.html (http://www.bc.edu/bc_org/avp/law/st_org/iptf/articles/content/1998101101.html)
Quote from: ato memphis on January 13, 2010, 09:19:11 AM
Harley has a habit of trying some dumb intellectual property moves. I thought the attempts to trademark the sound made was the dumbest. Here's a writing on the topic, though not necessarily a "good" writing: http://www.bc.edu/bc_org/avp/law/st_org/iptf/articles/content/1998101101.html (http://www.bc.edu/bc_org/avp/law/st_org/iptf/articles/content/1998101101.html)
we went over that one in law school..
a few aeons ago..... ;D
one of the things we covered briefly last semester. i groaned and rolled my eyes, drawing unneeded attention to myself of course. oops.
Quote from: ato memphis on January 13, 2010, 09:38:56 AM
one of the things we covered briefly last semester. i groaned and rolled my eyes, drawing unneeded attention to myself of course. oops.
that and your outfit
(http://www.trendhunter.com/images/phpthumbnails/11192_1_230.jpeg)
thank god i've never done anything like that (or at least let anybody survive with pictures of me). i did the ol' Johnny Cash for halloween this year, and Michael Buffer the year before.
:-)
sorry for the threadjack folks
couple of memphis boys yabbering
I have the TCIP4 and I love it. The only real complaint I have is the interface. If you can live with that, then it's ~perfect~.
The other complaint (small) is that the company is far far away. You are stuck with no state-side support although I've heard they are still good on their word for replacements of dead boxes.
Frankly, if it works, I doubt anything will ever go wrong with it. I assume it has some kind of VRM in it so voltage shouldn't be an issue and it's all solid state...
I've read of heat issues. That's a concern of mine.
That, and I'd like to wire up the TPS sensor with the FCR 41's (if that's possible, I think the FCR's can provide that, and I think the Ignitech can, so I think I'd only need to wire it in...) when I get a set.
This is all well and good, but I also need to get some time on a dyno as well, and I want to make sure I don't get carried away with advance with the dallas heat.
the problem is finding a TPS module that can sit on the throttle axis. i've considered it might be possible to put a potentiometer directly on the throttle grip as well, but it would need to be fabricated.
BRad Black wanted to use a MAP connected directly to the manifold(s) to provide TPS-like feedback but apparently it varies too much to use effectively.
I don't think heat will be much of a problem, i mounted mine right in the same spot where the original spark module(s) was/were. plenty of airflow. hypothetically, the wires could be extended and it mounted elsewhere, like undertail.
Some Keihin FCR models come with TPS, and that's what I was hoping would be able to be obtained, directly off the carbs, a short run of wire to the Ignitech. In my head it seems quite simple since Sudco lists TPS on the FCR-MX carbs, and on some of the japanese bike's carbs too I believe.
Quote from: ato memphis on January 13, 2010, 11:01:23 AM
Some Keihin FCR models come with TPS, and that's what I was hoping would be able to be obtained, directly off the carbs, a short run of wire to the Ignitech. In my head it seems quite simple since Sudco lists TPS on the FCR-MX carbs, and on some of the japanese bike's carbs too I believe.
i had no idea.. can you shoot me a link?
http://www.sudco.com/keihin.html (http://www.sudco.com/keihin.html)
Check out the FCR41-MX features.
http://www.dynoman.net/carb/keiFCR.html (http://www.dynoman.net/carb/keiFCR.html)
Check out the CBR900RR - with TPS and 41mm
And you'll come up with additional applications if you search "Keihin FCR 41 TPS", perhaps Chris K @ CA-Cycleworks has done some questioning of the proper groups, because that would be fantastic. Imagine being able to update your bike's carbs and ignition, have them work together and really transform the bike. (Too bad this isn't current model stuff, or it would be a problem worth solving for those in the industry)
Quote from: ato memphis on January 13, 2010, 11:17:04 AM
http://www.sudco.com/keihin.html (http://www.sudco.com/keihin.html)
Check out the FCR41-MX features.
http://www.dynoman.net/carb/keiFCR.html (http://www.dynoman.net/carb/keiFCR.html)
Check out the CBR900RR - with TPS and 41mm
And you'll come up with additional applications if you search "Keihin FCR 41 TPS", perhaps Chris K @ CA-Cycleworks has done some questioning of the proper groups, because that would be fantastic. Imagine being able to update your bike's carbs and ignition, have them work together and really transform the bike. (Too bad this isn't current model stuff, or it would be a problem worth solving for those in the industry)
so i just called up my bud at Sudco and he gave me some cross refs for their carbs that have a TPS mount. i might be plunking down some coin now... sheesh
please share your findings!
Quote from: ato memphis on January 13, 2010, 03:46:07 PM
please share your findings!
won't be overnight... :D
kit 016-671 which is for a yamaha has the same throats and axial diameter as the ducati carbs. it's for a trx850. the TPS mount and boss is there and you just have to order the tps from yamaha (3 wire, i believe). when ordering the kit from sudco, ask them to rejet it the same as the ducati carbs. carbs are identical otherwise except the jets and the tps boss.
i think i need to pat myself on the back.. ;D
can the standard FCR41 be adorned with a TPS? What do you know, man?!
Here's what I know about TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) and the Keihin FCR series carbs:
021.561 1621-844 HARNES $23.15
021.560 1614-812 SENSOR $84.89
Don't know if is plug and play or not, this information found by researching on the Sudco website.
Quote from: ato memphis on January 16, 2010, 05:14:00 PM
Here's what I know about TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) and the Keihin FCR series carbs:
021.561 1621-844 HARNES $23.15
021.560 1614-812 SENSOR $84.89
Don't know if is plug and play or not, this information found by researching on the Sudco website.
The TPS unit itself [evil] is plug and play, but you have to wire it and program it in the ignitech.
That is as simple as wiring the TPS's wires to the proper plugs on the Ignitech harness. Once it's connected, then you have to set up the Ignitech to understand the TPS's voltage range. There will be a nominal voltage for a closed or "zero" state throttle and a maximum voltage for fully open or "one hundred" state. Once you have those two values, you then set up the steps (10 available, just like the RPM advance) of spark retard. I haven't done this yet except as a dry run on the desktop, but that's it in theory.
In short -- TPS has three wires, one is 12v (dropped to 5v usually) from the key switch for power and the other two are the feed to the spark control. ( It has a built-in VRM so variations in voltage do not affect it. It works the same as any potentiometer. )
The output voltage usually is very low, such as 3.x to 4.x and increments in 100ths of a volt.
You will have to use a multimeter to set the throttle positions to your needs -- i.e. write it all down.
you go first. (and report back your doings)
Quote from: ato memphis on January 16, 2010, 05:14:00 PM
Here's what I know about TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) and the Keihin FCR series carbs:
021.561 1621-844 HARNES $23.15
021.560 1614-812 SENSOR $84.89
Don't know if is plug and play or not, this information found by researching on the Sudco website.
As I've said in the ignitions thread, I'd like to give this a crack...I enquired about the TPS through a local distributor their price..
harness $35 aus
sensor $139 aus :( with a 3 week wait!
can an recommend somewhere to purchase in the states?
Time-out. Check my other thread on the TCIP4 right quick for the latest I got back from Sudco when I emailed 'em about it:
http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=33971.0 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=33971.0)
And more specifically:
Quote from: ato memphis on January 16, 2010, 07:05:28 PM
Other information:
Those interested in getting a little more zip out of their bikes will likely find the Ignitech a handy ignition and performance tuning tool. The ignitech's features are not being fully realized in its plug-and-play form. The Ignitech's software shows the ability to use a Throttle Position Sensor (TPS). Those same people looking for more zip may also upgrade to Flatslides (such as FCR 41 for the 900 or the 39s for the 750). The Sudco catalog does list a TPS sensor and wiring harness:
021.561 1621-844 HARNES $23.15
021.560 1614-812 SENSOR $84.89
-- Email from Sudco re: FCR41s and the TPS --
Quote from: ato memphis on January 16, 2010, 07:05:28 PM
Hello Josh,
Sudco Part number 016-671, the 41mm FCR carbs for the Yamaha TRX850 are basically the same as the Ducati FCR carbs. The biggest difference is the TRX850 carbs have the mount and throttle shaft for a TPS, where the Ducati carbs do not and these pieces are not available individually. The other difference is the TRX850 have longer spigots, different jetting and cable bracket then the Ducati, but all these pieces are available for purchase. Basically, if you purchased the 016-671 carbs, TPS from a 98 or earlier Yamaha TRX850, changed the jetting, spigots and bracket you would have Ducati FCR41 carbs with TPS.
Chad Thompson
Sudco International Corporation
(323)728-5407 x107 - Phone
(323)728-8060 - Fax
chad@sudco.com
Quote from: ato memphis on January 18, 2010, 02:14:52 PM
And more specifically:
that's funny... i emailed chad about a year ago about this and figured out the TRX carbs fit Ducatis and told him...
Chris was copied on the emails to Sudco, and here's his take on the matter:
Quote
You actually can't purchase the spigots for the Ducati dual FCRs. They're never available and are stupidly expensive. So the next question would be how much longer are the TRX spigots...
Alternatively, we have a customer who got FCRs + TPS working on his bike and he is reporting a huge improvement in driveability. I'm hoping he'll reply with some details of how he got it all to work.
Chris
From: http://www.speedzilla.com/forums/general-ducati-chat/56146-ignitek-tcip4-amazing.html#post596610 (http://www.speedzilla.com/forums/general-ducati-chat/56146-ignitek-tcip4-amazing.html#post596610)
Two shops that seems to sell spigots:
http://www.motorcyclecarbs.com/Keihin_FCR_Spigot_Adapter_Appl_W53C1588.cfm (http://www.motorcyclecarbs.com/Keihin_FCR_Spigot_Adapter_Appl_W53C1588.cfm)
http://www.keihin.de/ (http://www.keihin.de/)
do you really need the spigots? I would have thought that we could have just extended the throttle shaft, made a bracket to support the TPS and configure it from there??
I was just going to get the sensor and cable and see what could be done...
Yes. The throttle shady is too short on the ducati carbs
Friends, Romans, Ducatisti,
I call your attention to this thread:
http://www.speedzilla.com/forums/general-ducati-chat/56146-ignitek-tcip4-amazing.html#post596784 (http://www.speedzilla.com/forums/general-ducati-chat/56146-ignitek-tcip4-amazing.html#post596784)
Gents, we may soon have a package setup.
I am hoping it would consist of:
Vague instructions on how the wires connect to Ignitech
FCR 41's with tps connected, jetted to baseline ducati settings, with appropriate spigots, mounting, etc
More stickers to put on the back of my cage.
For those of you playing at home who already have flatslides, i'm not sure this would be all that helpful to you. But you may be able to sell those suckers and get the package. I'll annoy Chris tomorrow afternoon and post up any findings I have.