Ducati Monster Forum

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/sport/sportresults/mcn/2008/may/26-31/may2808ducati-confirm-ben-spies-approach/?&R=EPI-100697 (http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/sport/sportresults/mcn/2008/may/26-31/may2808ducati-confirm-ben-spies-approach/?&R=EPI-100697)

Ben Spies riding the greatest marque in motorcycling? Noooooooooooo :o

Have the rumours of Schwantz running a satellite Suzuki team with Spies gone away now?

He might actually have a chance to do well on the Duc and he is an AMAZING rider.  His ability to wrestle a bike around woudl come in handy on the Duc.


Pretty much... They weren't rumors though, they were trying to make it happen but the story goes that Suzuki wanted too much $$$ for a bike.

as the article mentions there's still a chance that rizla suzuki will run 3 bikes next year...

and tufty, why 'nooo'?

Bring it!!!  [thumbsup]

T

Wow....I thought it was just an unconfirmed rumor, and he'd for sure end up w/Rizla Suzuki... ???

-Should prove to be interesting....He is a sick rider, there's no denying that... I bet he'll do well in GP...

-So if Spies rides w/Alice-Ducati, Rizla will likely keep Capirossi + Vermeulen I would imagine, right??

We shall see how he does, no little fish in the Motogp, everyone is a shark.

I'm sure he's a super nice guy and God knows he's a super talented rider. But there's just something about his demeanor that rubs me the wrong way. I f he rode a Ducati I'd have to reinvent the wheel.

you're gonna have to 'splain that one... would you prefer him have the "total asshole" persona like mladin?

looks like there may be seats available elsewhere, too:

http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2008/Edwards+Kawasaki+discussions+confirmed

Heh, you gotta love a guy who speaks his mind.

how about who gives a shit about what anyone says or does off-track.  ben is a great rider.

would be interesting to see him on the other tech3 bike... bet that would give tufty conniptions   ;D

you had to ruin a perfectly good thread by using the M word.   ;D

ok, for the sake of discussion (yes, I know Corse is full through 09)

melandri is gone

who gets the seat?

Rossi? (sure sounds like he's staying at yamaha)

Hayden? (he and honda obviously aren't/haven't been jiving, dirt track experience might make him a good candidate for the d16)

Spies?

???

don't count on corse being full for '09...

i've heard that melandri is already out at ducati and it wouldn't surprise me one bit to see him and nicky swap seats for '09.

for some reason *cough*marketing*cough* ducati is fond of american riders.

they've offered nicky the ride once, why wouldn't they offer it to him again? he's not going to leave factory/repsol honda to go ride the same bike that isn't working for him on a satellite team, so that really only two (competitive) rides for nicky to consider if he leaves his current team: ducati and yamaha. also, don't forget, yamaha had an interest in nicky when he came to motogp and also had talks with  him prior to his re-signing with honda.

regarding ben, i'd be very surpsised if he came into motogp on anything other than a factory team. then again, given the recent developments in the dmg/ama rules proposal, maybe he'll take what he can get. suzuki is the "obvious" choice for him, but nobody has really impressed on that bike. it's unlikely he'll end up in nicky's vacated seat, but hopefully he ends up on a competitive bike (yamaha) instead of something else.

I'm just going off Livio Suppo via the MCN article in the OP ;)

ya, but "full" with who?  ;)

If he ends up on the Suzuki he'll be the next Hopper. 

I'd hate to see that happen to Spies. 

Probably because the sky would fall, pigs would fly, and the seven demons of Hell(TM) would be unleashed on the world if Ducati didn't have an Italian rider on its factory GP team  [evil]

...or at least that's the way the Italians see it  ;D

It'd definitely be interesting to see Boomhauer Nicky on the D16 though.

too bad they don't run that bike then.  =)

http://superbikeplanet.com/2008/May/080531g.htm

I can see Spies being competitive in WSBK...but MotoGP? Unlikely he will be nothing more than the next also ran. Just my humble opinion though.

is this because you've only seen him ride superbikes or because of nicky's gp experience?

did you see the times he ran on the gsv in testing last year?

Have you seen the competition he has run against in AMA?
Put him on a superior bike and get him in front of the pack and I will admit he can do some great things. But MotoGP packs are wolves all trying to be the Alpha...AMA packs...some Labs fighting over a pound of hamburger. There just isn't the inspirational riding in AMA classes anymore. Even watching British SBK races etc are worlds above the competition levels the AMA top classes seem to show.

Looking back, Nicky had some great battles with the Bostroms, with Mladin, etc. But the Kid hasn't won a MotoGP race since 2006...
I just don't think the AMA prepares riders for a class like MotoGP anymore. It does give them a good head of steam for WSBK though. Running the same tracks with "friendly" crowds that you have raced in front of most or your life makes a huge difference when they suddenly dump you into a world wide series with RABID fans. That plays alot on the mind when you are out there trying to qualify in front of fans who don't know you, could care less about you, and have absolutely no desire to root for you over their countrymen...

Nicky overcame that in his championship season and gave inspirational performances...but he has fallen off greatly, sad to say.

with the exception of mladin, you're right about the competition in the AMA. the problem is, mladin is a tough nut to crack.

mat's got a collection of 6 ama superbike championships that's only been interrupted by two people: nicky hayden and spies.

british superbike is insane. i used to love the british rounds of the world superbike championship when the bsb wildcards would bang bars with the regulars. the only other ferocious wildcards were japan's all japan championship racers.

fwiw, the ama superbike series has NEVER prepared anybody for gp classes. the traditional gp-feeder has been the smaller gp classes. there have been exceptions, though.

i think nicky's recent "falling off" has more to do with equipment and team dynamics than lack of heart.

You're missing the part of the equation that's changed since 2006- the bike.  It's been no secret that even while Nicky was in the hunt for the title, his team was busy favoring his spanish teammate for their spanish sponsor in a spanish run series.  When they moved to the 800, it favored Pedrobot completely and there has been 0 movement from HRC to develop the bike for him.  He needs the power to slide the bike around like he did in 06, that's his style, and it's just not there.

not to mention honda even admitted to "going the wrong direction" in the design of the rc212v by not engineering it for the high cornerspeed style required by the 800s.

...and as talented as Mladin may be....

I can't watch AMA because of him

i'm surprised you can't tolerate it enough to watch ben go through the grind it beat mat. fontana race 2 was just silly.

I realize it's just me...my loss.

I can't stomach him.

I can live without AMA.

I'll cheer Ben on wherever he lands...he's a racer and a good guy.

ya know, i realize he has that apparent matter-of-fact dickhead air about him.  but he's also just as matter-of-fact about not getting it done when he doesn't win.  kinda evens it out.

besides, you don't really have to watch all the non-racing coverage  :)

It would be better if he never did another interview. ;D

I must admit...I have a hard on about AMA racing.

I live on the east coast.

I've watched some pretty big names race at Loudon...I can drop them if you'd like, although it would date me.

I know NHIS was not the safest track on the schedule....maybe not safe period.

There was a better solution than the one Mladin brokered....

You honestly think Ben is a better rider than JT?  If you do then I'm astounded, hell if Colin went to AMA and ran against Ben (on equivalent equipment), Id have to think twice about betting against Colin.

I don't believe that there is anything like the same level of competition in AMA superbike as there is in other superbike series and I think the riders suffer for it.

Flame on.

Careful: DMG might sue you for saying that next year...even if they do run a spec tire, spec fuel, do rolling starts, and eliminate right turns ;D

outside watching ben and mat i think it's kind of impossible to tell.  hopefully next year we will know the answer to that one as far as ben is concerned.

Well we know he isn't used to running with a pack ;D

i don't expect it to be definitive, but laguna, indy and the pre-indy test should at least see where he stacks up with the field... taking into consideration his minimal familiarity with the bike and the overall (lack of) competitiveness of the suzuki, of course.

I agree. Mat's a punk. Big fish in a little pond. If he had an ounce of self respect he would have taken his 6 championships to the world stage to see how he really stacked up.

As for Spies, MotoGP will eat him alive. All the top riders have come up through the 125-250 system and not through SBK.  The SBKs are just too different for them to adequately adjust. None of the top WSBK riders that went to "the show" did well there either. Hayden just got lucky in '06 that Rossi's bike kept DNF'ing and he still almost won the championship.

first of all, cagiva in '93.

secondly, would you go to world superbike for a significant pay cut?

if your competitive drive was so immense that you answered yes, would you make the same decision as a family man supporting your wife and kid?

superbike hasn't seemed to hurt edwards, hopper, vermuelen, and toseland...

...while i'm at it, it didn't hurt doohan, schwantz, rainey, or lawson, either.

And how many wins do they have, combined?

Total race wins for these four: 1
Total race wins for Thumbelina & Stoner: many more

OK, I know...loaded comment. But I couldn't resist. ;D

One I think eh?  Verm got one  last year in the wet.

1 win, 18 podiums, 6 pole positions.

i'd hardly call that "eaten alive".

...and I bet Edwards accounts for 5 of those 6 Poles  ;D

2, actually.

Hmm...just recalling all the talk on this board about Edwards doing well in qualifying  ;D

Suffice it to say that it's nice to see SBK riders doing well in GP. But the results over the past 1.5 years seem to favor the guys from the support classes. In any event, I'd welcome Spies to GP. Just as long as he doesn't displace Vermuellen or Capi.

the rumor, theory, whatever is that they would run a third bike.

Come on now, firstly JT is less than 1/2 way through his rookie year straight from WSBK and he's in the top ten and all but one of the tracks so far are unfamiliar to him. As for Verm, Edwards and Hopper in all fairness it's not like they've been on truly competitive rides in the last couple of years either. I think it's way too early to rule out SBK as a good entry vehicle for GP.

you're kidding right?  [roll]

Even the schlubs in MotoGP are making 7 figures.  I think he can still manage to feed and house his family after that pay cut. [cheeky]

no, i'm serious.

mladin made $7M last year to stoner's $4M.

but it's unlikely that he would've gotten (another) gp ride, so worldsuperbike is the only other "world" series he could've gone to.

ama superbike > worldsbk = paycut likely measured in millions (hodgson mentioned this before)

in addition to the dock in pay, there is significantly more (international) travel involved. mladin likes to rv (or fly his plane) to the races so he can spend more time with his wife and kid.

speaking of former world champion hodgson, even he prefers racing in the US... does that make him a cherry-picking pussy to?

Methinks Stoner only made a measly 4M because he was an unknown quantity and expected to be a seat filler. I'd bet he's making a tad more this year.

i've always said that the '07 motogp world championship was the cheapest one ducati has ever won. plus they got a lot of help from michelin, honda, and yamaha.  ;D

that said, what would mladin make in gp? what kind of "known quantity" would he be? why give up his $7M a year to be a question mark?

I'm not disagreeing that it's a paycut Derby, I'm just disagreeing with you presenting it like it would jeopardize him providing for his family. ;)

you said "jeopardy," not me...

i said that, from a family man supporting his wife and kid, the smart thing to do is stay on his current team making $7M a year instead of taking a pay cut.

it's a really easy concept to digest...

in the "pro" column, you have "spend a lot time with the wife and kid, and $7M a year guaranteed until you want to retire"

in the "con" column, you have "travel around the world 9 months out of the year, take a pay cut, and hope you have a job in 2 years.
 

he's also at the end of his career now.  a move to wsbk or gp would mean not being competitive for a while.  he probably doesn't have that time.

he has two kids now, btw.

yup...

he's 36, which is ancient in racer years. even if you argue that he should've gone 4-5 years ago, that's too old for a team to invest in a limited quantity*.

and before you cite bayliss (39 this year) as an example, he was in the right place/right time for his original ducati ride in worldsuperbike. if he hadn't already been with factory ducati in the ama when foggy had his career-ending incident, it's quite possible he never would've been considered for that ride.

for reference it looks like biaggi is pulling down "only" $1M a year in world superbike.

i'm pretty sure i wouldn't enjoy taking a $5-6M paycut.

*at least it was then... with dmg making changes to the "ama pro racing" class structure, rumors abound that zemke (32) and hayes (33) are both being talked to about world superbike rides for next season.

you said


We're arguing about tone.  Do you not recognize that worded like that it implies that he would somehow not be able to support his family on a measly $4M/yr?  We're not talking about you or me taking a paycut in tens of thousands of dollars, which *would* impact our ability to provide a specific quality of life for our families, we're talking about the difference between "stupid money" and "insane money".

speaking of that, i think it's a funny (as in interesting/ironic) result of the intersection between the actual racing being so damn good in wsbk the last couple years and DMG coming in to completely F up the big bike class here that suddenly people all over the world are being very vocal about getting some americans into that series.  it's about time.

i don't necessarily disagree with you.  but when you take the whole mladin picture into account, leaving ama for some other series doesn't make any sense for him.

not only is he 'getting by' on his $7m+/yr, he's earned the right to make that much, have a family, travel the way he wants to.  part of the reason any of this is a topic is b/c he has an abrasive public personality.  but i don't think you can find a single person out there who'll accuse him of not riding to the maximum of his ability at all times.  fierce, fierce competitor.

Maybe that's where the disconnect between what I'm saying and what Derby is hearing is.  I'm not even arguing that he should make the move. ;)  I get that he's happy and has all the reasons in the world to stay in AMA, my point of contention was just that it was silly to imply that the paycut would have an impact on providing for his family.

maybe you just want the last word.   ;D

that's not what i was saying.

look at it this way, mat took the ama superbike championship in 2000, defended it successfully in '01, and lost to nicky in '02... this was all on the 750cc superbike. he then came back on the 1000cc superbike and won '03, '05, and '05.

now, where would you have liked to see him leave the ama? surely not after losing to nicky in '02. maybe after he won his championship back in '03?

so let's say he went to world superbike in '04 and managed to secure the $1M salary given to a 4-time world champion and former motogp racer.

4 years in world superbike at $1M = $4M (if he managed to keep his ride)
4 years in ama superbikes at $7M = $28M

so a move to world superbikes virtually guarantees a $24M loss in future earnings.

now tell me, is that a smart move for a man supporting a wife and two kids? do you think that might have some impact on how he provides for his family?

would you take a $24M paycut?

Pfft! I'd never notice it.  [roll]

Gotta agree with Derb here. 

Why put yourself through a much more rigorous touring schedule and take a giant pay cut?  So you can compete with the rest of the guys who couldn't get it done in GP?  Hardly worth it.  WSBK is a great series, but let's face it - it's where racers go to die (and take giant pay cuts).  Honestly, Mat doesn't need the money, but he also doesn't need to go to WSBK (and with it lower his quality of life) so he can prove himself to a few keyboard racers.

and 24M?  I don't care how much $$$ you have, if you give up 24M (of a total 28M) over 5 years, you deserve to be kicked squarely in the nuts every day for the rest of your life.  That's like being demoted from CEO to secretary in terms of a pay cut.

I've tried very specifically to explain the singular point that I'm discussing, and everyone is missing it.  I give up. [roll]

[laugh]

yes, i'm laughing at myself here too.

Edwards wasn't on a competitive bike? make the beast with two backs, he was Rossi's teammate!  Not like he was riding for some second string satellite team.

You say it's about the money, I still  say it's about the self respect. When you're out in front all the time just out for a Sunday ride like he usually was, a competitor would want to have some real competition again.  Again, he's just a big fish in a very small uncompetitive in the scheme of things pond.

well, he did have his time on the aprilia cube (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aprilia_RS3_Cube) after honda (reportedly) offered him a ride on "some second string satellite team." fwiw, haga didn't get along with that bike, either.

after roasting his cajones on that POS, colin got offered a ride on, you guessed it, a honda satellite team.

so you're saying you'd take the $24M paycut?

fwiw, mat has competition. yeah, it's not a whole field of competitors, but spies has taken the championship from him two years in a row and has got the measure of him so far this year. mat has repeatedly said that if it wasn't for ben, he would've retired years ago. he's out once ben leaves.

+1  Gotta agree with Derby's line of reasoning.  I'd happily kick ass in AMA against lesser competition for an extra $24M, rather then move to WSBK.  That's a no brainer...I don't care how competitive you are.

Ben Spies Ducati Moto GP

not that's some insight.  ;D

 ;D

Nooooooooooo!  [bang]

Once you have a few million in the bank, does a few more really change your lifestyle?

it may not necessarily change your lifestyle but it might change your thinking on the matter once you have 2 kids.

i had completely forgotten about this interview (http://forums.13x.com/showthread.php?t=156227) with alex barros where he talks about carlos checa taking $100k/year to ride the ten kate honda.

i wish i could remember what site that was originally on. it evidently wasn't superbikeplanet...

If you were only talking a few, like the difference between $19M and $24M, or $6M and $9M then no.  But a $24M difference...hell yes!