So I dove in and started doing the valves on my S2R1K this afternoon. Obligations meant I only got the bike torn down and the vertical head checked. I did this with the belts on and finding TDC was an interesting trick since the pictures of other people's windows had different kinds of marks. Anyway... 5 rechecks later these are the consistent numbers I was getting:
Vertical Cylinder:
Intake
Opener 0.003
Closer 0.003
Exhaust
Opener 0.003
Closer 0.002
These kinds of numbers would make sense as the valves seated more since the last check, right? (Openers tightened, closers loosened)
And if these are the correct readings, I should plan to file down or replace the openers to get to those to spec and replace the closers to try and get to 0.0-0.001, right?
Thanks guys just first time valve adjustment virgin.
you should just pull the belts. makes life loads easier.
but assuming you did it correctly. it sounds right.
Loosen those openers and tighten the closers. [thumbsup]
Quote from: ducpainter on January 23, 2010, 03:29:52 PM
Loosen those openers and tighten the closers. [thumbsup]
Thanks man!
Quote from: He Man on January 23, 2010, 03:20:23 PM
you should just pull the belts. makes life loads easier.
but assuming you did it correctly. it sounds right.
I wasn't planning on replacing the shims right now. I just wanted to figure out what I needed to do, get a little confidence in what I was doing at stages that I could back out of and have a mechanic do the work, practice as it were.
So how does removing the belts make it easier? Just that you can spin the cams easier? I am planning on doing the belts next so when I am in there doing the belts, I will do the valves at the same time.
Thanks for the help guys.
I personally read everything and I mean everything I could on the process. I know it sounds crazy but i read every article i could find, got the pro Italia dvd, the LT Snyder Manual (this is really good one), and finally last but not least, skimmed through and read every thread on the topic. Perhaps i overdid it a bit but thats just how i am. I didn't really have anyone to teach me and i didn't know much about mechanics but I got through it and so can you.
Make sure to stick a screw driver in the valve hole where the spark plug goes to make sure you don't drop your valve stem when you remove the shims....this option will work much better than trying to hold the stem in place w/ forceps; Specially for the vertical exhaust valve.
Quote from: yotogi on January 23, 2010, 04:20:00 PM
So how does removing the belts make it easier? Just that you can spin the cams easier? I am planning on doing the belts next so when I am in there doing the belts, I will do the valves at the same time.
Thanks for the help guys.
pretty much. once the piston is out of the way, you can spin the cam shaft as you please (though there is resistance in the springs) and is much easier than fighting the belts.
The biggest reason for taking the belts off is so you can rotate the cams by hand to make sure your closers aren't too tight.
#2 Reason is it makes it a *lot* easier to get the opener rocker moved to the side so you can get shims on and off.
And on a DS, it'd be *really really* hard to get the opener back in position with the belts on.
Whichever head you're working on, get the piston at top dead center.
That way you can't drop a valve.
Hey Speeddog, I think I already know the answer to this, but I'm going to ask anyway...With the piston at TDC, is the valve going to strike the piston when you spin the cam with the belts off?
I'm guessing your answer is "no", but I'm surprised 'cause I always thought it would be a problem.
Quote from: Speeddog on January 26, 2010, 06:39:07 AM
The biggest reason for taking the belts off is so you can rotate the cams by hand to make sure your closers aren't too tight.
#2 Reason is it makes it a *lot* easier to get the opener rocker moved to the side so you can get shims on and off.
And on a DS, it'd be *really really* hard to get the opener back in position with the belts on.
Whichever head you're working on, get the piston at top dead center.
That way you can't drop a valve.
Exactly why I do this. You can feel if there is any slight resistance on the closer with the opener slid over, not sure on a DS model. Such tight tolerances aren't always accurately measured with a feeler gauge when your talking .001". spinning it will gaurantee it is free to turn smoothly.
Quote from: AndrewNS on January 27, 2010, 03:36:00 PM
Hey Speeddog, I think I already know the answer to this, but I'm going to ask anyway...With the piston at TDC, is the valve going to strike the piston when you spin the cam with the belts off?
I'm guessing your answer is "no", but I'm surprised 'cause I always thought it would be a problem.
With piston at TDC, yes, the valves will hit the pistons if you spin the cam far enough.
You don't need to turn the cam that far to get the opener rockers on and off, same for checking for drag or binding due to overly tight clearances.
This board is reason enough to get a Duc
everybody who goes thru it and lives to tell about it will add one useful tidbit
Lose the belts, don't fight it
after consulting the experts I came up with this, is worked with my brain,
(Clip off)
(opener rocker - move)
(opener shim - off)
forceps - on valve stem
closer rocker - down, secure with 8-10mm allen (EEEEEEEEEXCELENT TIP)
collets - out
Allen - out
closer shim - out
Closing shim -on
Allen - in
Collets - on
Allen - out
Forceps - off
With a little pressing on the closer rocker and spinning the cam at various points
http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=29821.0 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=29821.0)
enjoy
Thanks for all the tips and pointers! I must have watched Chris's video a dozen times before I dove in there.
I got a set of the new ExactFit belts from California Cycleworks today and am diving in this weekend!
Quote from: seevtsaab on January 28, 2010, 04:17:32 PM
closer rocker - down, secure with 8-10mm allen (EEEEEEEEEXCELENT TIP)
Nevermind, I was able to figure it out (I ended up using a 3/8" drill bit).
Quote from: seevtsaab on January 28, 2010, 04:17:32 PM
This board is reason enough to get a Duc
everybody who goes thru it and lives to tell about it will add one useful tidbit
Lose the belts, don't fight it
after consulting the experts I came up with this, is worked with my brain,
(Clip off)
(opener rocker - move)
(opener shim - off)
forceps - on valve stem
closer rocker - down, secure with 8-10mm allen (EEEEEEEEEXCELENT TIP)
collets - out
Allen - out
closer shim - out
Closing shim -on
Allen - in
Collets - on
Allen - out
Forceps - off
With a little pressing on the closer rocker and spinning the cam at various points
http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=29821.0 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=29821.0)
enjoy
One other thing, you want to block off the oil return galley with something or sure as hell a collet will jump from the end of your finger and go right down that little hole.
Well, the work is done!
But, how do you do secure the closer rockers? I had to grab a buddy of mine from down the street to help me get the the closers on and off.
I got a little stumped when trying to get both opening rockers clear. In the ducatitech.com video Chris points out that you can get it so the cam turns over freely. I was never able to get both openers clear at the same time. I have an S2R1K so there may some differences up there in the head. After turning it over and checking it out, I just didn't think it possible, nor did it matter as I as able to do them one at a time.
The ExactFit belts were perfect and the 5mm allen key belt tension trick worked perfectly. Thanks for the pointers guys!
The 5 mm allen key method doesn't work for a 1K DS engine. Your belts are way too loose.
Do a search for belt tension
I did a couple of searches and found mention of using a 3mm to check.
Couple of questions though:
1.) Is that right? Do you do the same check with 3mm instead of 5mm?
2.) Why are the 1000DS belts spec'd to run so much tighter?
3.) Do all of these take into account the change to loosen the belt tension that happened a while back?
The reason why I as is, I had my belts adjusted at the dealer less than 3,000 miles ago. Before I removed the belts, I checked the tension using the 5mm wrench on both cylinders and they appeared to be tensioned closer to what I have now than the tighter tolerance you are saying is needed. I have no reason to suspect my dealer from doing the work incorrectly. I talked to them about it and stood over his shoulder to see how it is done with the factory tester.
And I would still love for someone to explain how to secure the closers. Thanks everyone!
maybe your more motivated than me to write a tutorial for the DS1000 motors but.
1) you cant get both rocker arms to come off at the same time. its impossible due to the shape of the cams.
2) the 5mm trick does not work. A 3mm did work though.
3) the timing locations are different
4) you may or may not need to remove the cam to get the belt off. i found a trick of using a shim to get it out.
Thats the only differences i knew of.