So, I've wanted one of these for a long time and I'm seriously thinking about making the plunge. There is a 2004 extended cargo (w/2008 4x4 conversion parts) diesel for sale on Ebay. NADA (conversion van book) says it is worth $16.5k and he is asking $19.9k. Extras it has are 4" exhaust, in dash navigation, decent stereo, fox racing shocks and dampers, fox racing 4" lift, American Racing Mojave 17" rims. It has 105k miles.
Cons (for me anyway): 6.0L powersmoker and it used to be a lease vehicle. Also has accident damage on its carfax.
Conversion was just performed (w/in 10 months) which is good and bad (all brand new running gear, springs, diffs, xfer case, etc from 2008 parts) but makes me wonder it it is hiding something.
Questions - How much would you pay above NADA? Anything? What are opinions on the 6.0L motor? I know the 7.2L motor. I have heard bad things about the 6.0L, but have several friends with them and they have had no problems.
I want to turn it into a camper rig, but will do that in my driveway, with cash, over time. I think I can beat the $60k + needed to by a used Sportmobile already converted to camper.
I have a good friend who works at a Ford dealership. He has nothing nice to say about the 6.0L. :P
Trouble is, I really want a diesel so I can have a diesel stove and heater, and it has to be a Ford, just because their one-ton chassis are the best. So I'm stuck. The 7.2's out there are getting really old since they dropped those mid-2003.
What kind of trouble, specifically? I know vaguely about some sort of injector trouble which you think would be sorted in a 105k mile motor.
Quote from: angler on February 26, 2010, 10:22:37 AM
What kind of trouble, specifically? I know vaguely about some sort of injector trouble which you think would be sorted in a 105k mile motor.
I sent him a text and asked for a short list.
"Injectors, EGR (exhaust gas recirculation), and if they sit, the turbo will seize up. Also problems with the high pressure oil system."
A quick Google search tells me that these problems are either because of mediocre maintenance, or bad design. Depends on who you ask, I guess. As with many things I'd suspect the truth is somewhere in the middle.
Not being a wrench myself, I'm personally inclined to take the word of the people who see these things in their shop day in and day out.
*shrugs*
The majority of ambulances we run use the 6.0
now granted we abuse the shit out of these vehicles
but
they are in the shop a lot
the EGR on these motors is a very common problem with our fleet
as are turbo issues on the spares (the ones that sit)
3 out of the 20 units online have had motors replaced inside 120,000miles
MotoGPfan has some big ass Ford Diesel.
I am not sure what year it is, but never heard of any problems with it. Of course he put on some big exhaust, lift, tires, etc.
PM him over at coastalducaticlub.org for more info.
His is a little older (maybe like a 2003 or 2004) so not sure if the powerplant is the same.
worth a shot at speaking with him.
I'm a huge fan of the 7.3L Powerstroke, I was in the Ford business through it's life in the lineup. Was there for 2 years of the 6.0L and saw problems from the start.
I have a friend who purchased a used 6.0L and replaced the engine at 108,000 .... just out of warranty. Another bought one from someone he knew and knew the service history. He's at 180,000 with no issues. Unless I could get a full record of maintenance on the engine, I'd probably stay away.
I'm no expert, just thought I'd throw in my 2¢
Just hold out for the newest, lowest mileage 7.3 you can find, although these are very strong motors and I've seen them in super duty pickups with over 500,000 miles
Yeah the 7.3's are called the million mile motor. They have been putting that motor, first without a turbo in their trucks and vans since the mid '80s up until mid way through 2003. I can find these already converted to campers with low miles and the 7.3, but they cost $60k plus! Crazy that people buy these campers to tour the country then never drive them.
The turbo thing may be a deal breaker as it will sit. It would not be a daily driver.
The challenge, with both the trucks and the vans, is that people buy them for commercial purposes and drive their wheels off. Try finding a 2003.5 or earlier F-350 or E-350 with less than 150k miles.
I'll keep looking......
On a related topic, how do the new Chevy and Dodge diesels hold up? I'm not looking at the moment but I've been debating getting something bigger at some point.
Quote from: lethe on February 27, 2010, 04:24:40 AM
On a related topic, how do the new Chevy and Dodge diesels hold up? I'm not looking at the moment but I've been debating getting something bigger at some point.
Isn't Dodge still using the Cummins?
Quote from: ducpainter on February 27, 2010, 04:26:37 AM
Isn't Dodge still using the Cummins?
Yes, but how will the rest of the truck hold up 10-15 years from now. Around here 10 year old ones are looking pretty worn out.
Quote from: lethe on February 27, 2010, 04:28:42 AM
Yes, but how will the rest of the truck hold up 10-15 years from now. Around here 10 year old ones are looking pretty worn out.
It's a Dodge... :-\
Quote from: ducpainter on February 27, 2010, 04:26:37 AM
Isn't Dodge still using the Cummins?
If I could find a van with the cummins (and not made by Dodge [evil]) I'd be happy! That Cummins motor is the shit. Unfortunately Dodge has terrible problems with fit and finish and I still think Ford's one ton chassis is the best. However I don't think Dodge ever put the diesel into a van and no commercial entity converts them to 4x4, at least that I know. Several companies, Quigley and Sportsmobile, convert Fords as a factory option.
/edit/
Quote from: ducpainter on February 27, 2010, 04:30:14 AM
It's a Dodge... :-\
Precisely. I have a 1994 1500 pick up and the thing is bullet proof mechanically. About 8 years ago, the paint started going 3D on me and is now missing from probably 75% of the hood and roof. Also, most of the interior started to let go about the same time. No thanks.
There is always the GM Duramax, but I know nothing about that motor. Or Mercedes Benz Sprinters! Oddly you can find those with 4x4......
The benz/Dodge rigs are pretty good I've heard.
The peeling issue on your Dodge was common.
Ford and GM painted millions of that era vehicle out of warranty.
Chrysler didn't have to. I won't go into my thoughts as to why.
I have to go to a Chevy dealer today to go cosign for a car for someone, while there I'll poke and prod the Duramax but like I said not really looking yet, just a thought for now. Hell, if I hit the lottery the old Wagoneer laying in the back of the garage would get reincarnated as a diesel and be modified to have a half bed in the back with a passthru like an Avalanche. Lottery would be needed though mainly because I don't have time for such endeavor with having a job.
pesky jobs
How about a Sportsmobile? They are a sweet vehicle.
http://sportsmobile.com/ (http://sportsmobile.com/)
Don't know what you want to use the van for but you can always Expo with it [thumbsup]
I know all about Sportsmobile. I regularly check their used page. I would prefer to kit out a 4x4 cargo myself because I can do that over a number of years using cash which will allow me to set it up how I want and check out the lifestyle without the $60k initial investment (used). My biz is portable so with a satellite dish I can work from anywhere.
If it didn't have to be the diesel, this V10 dually rig is pretty sweet. At $11,100 right now
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1997-Ford-Econoline-Camper-Van-Quigley-4X4-21K-Miles_W0QQitemZ200443132135QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item2eab5778e7#v4-33 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1997-Ford-Econoline-Camper-Van-Quigley-4X4-21K-Miles_W0QQitemZ200443132135QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item2eab5778e7#v4-33)
Quote from: angler on February 26, 2010, 10:22:37 AM
Trouble is, I really want a diesel so I can have a diesel stove and heater,
yes, that farm diesel is pretty cheap.. :D tax dodger!
Quote from: 1KDS on February 27, 2010, 11:03:53 AM
If it didn't have to be the diesel, this V10 dually rig is pretty sweet. At $11,100 right now
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1997-Ford-Econoline-Camper-Van-Quigley-4X4-21K-Miles_W0QQitemZ200443132135QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item2eab5778e7#v4-33 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1997-Ford-Econoline-Camper-Van-Quigley-4X4-21K-Miles_W0QQitemZ200443132135QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Cars_Trucks?hash=item2eab5778e7#v4-33)
That has been on a bunch of times.
High mileage but good price
(http://images.craigslist.org/3n83k43mc5Te5Pe5S5a2m2edb61114e9a1c28.jpg)
http://newyork.craigslist.org/jsy/cto/1611752727.html (http://newyork.craigslist.org/jsy/cto/1611752727.html)
Quote from: 1KDS on February 27, 2010, 12:05:50 PM
High mileage but good price
(http://images.craigslist.org/3n83k43mc5Te5Pe5S5a2m2edb61114e9a1c28.jpg)
http://newyork.craigslist.org/jsy/cto/1611752727.html (http://newyork.craigslist.org/jsy/cto/1611752727.html)
Not bad...
Man, I love turning this list loose on something......keep them coming!
322k miles is a tad high......
Two words on the V10 - GAS PIG!
Its got to be a diesel......
Quote from: ducatiz on February 27, 2010, 11:15:55 AM
yes, that farm diesel is pretty cheap.. :D tax dodger!
Huh? I wish I had access to off highway diesel........
I do ;D
You need some?
Quote from: angler on February 27, 2010, 02:57:45 PM
Man, I love turning this list loose on something......keep them coming!
322k miles is a tad high......
Two words on the V10 - GAS PIG!
Its got to be a diesel......
Huh? I wish I had access to off highway diesel........
I know a couple of places... [evil]
Jim beat me to it....
Quote from: ducpainter on February 27, 2010, 03:04:21 PM
I know a couple of places... [evil]
Jim beat me to it....
Well, when I buy one of these things I'll be driving it up to your neck of the woods at least twice a year. I'll make sure to stop in and fill up!
So it's not a normal thing to have at the local gas station? Most of them around here have a pump for it and also a racing gas pump at couple of them too.
he is referring to fuel that is normally used in Excavators, backhoes etc...
It is a different color than normal diesel.
Quote from: lethe on February 27, 2010, 03:19:50 PM
So it's not a normal thing to have at the local gas station? Most of them around here have a pump for it and also a racing gas pump at couple of them too.
Only a couple around here.
Quote from: Got Duc on February 27, 2010, 03:27:59 PM
he is referring to fuel that is normally used in Excavators, backhoes etc...
It is a different color than normal diesel.
Yeah...
but I still think they're adding 'bio' products.
Quote from: Got Duc on February 27, 2010, 03:27:59 PM
he is referring to fuel that is normally used in Excavators, backhoes etc...
It is a different color than normal diesel.
I know, separate pump marked off-road use only right?
yep and if they find it in your on road rig the fine is very painful
Quote from: ducpainter on February 27, 2010, 03:30:39 PM
Only a couple around here.
Yeah...
but I still think they're adding 'bio' products.
I don't think so.
A buddy of mine sells Bio fuel. There are problems with it. THe Bio fuel is so clean it usually causes clogs in the system. Now this is for homes but I am sure it would play havoc on the filters in trucks.
Mom is 200% right. If the coppers catch you with the wrong color fuel in your tank the fines are very steep. Thought it might be a little tougher to get caught in a van versus a truck where you can look into the tank.
Quote from: Got Duc on February 27, 2010, 04:20:49 PM
I don't think so.
<snip>
So...
riddle me this...
why is my heating oil freezing before it gels?
Quote from: ducpainter on February 27, 2010, 04:22:23 PM
So...
riddle me this...
why is my heating oil freezing before it gels?
cuz you got water in the tank...?
Quote from: Got Duc on February 27, 2010, 04:20:49 PM
I don't think so.
A buddy of mine sells Bio fuel. There are problems with it. THe Bio fuel is so clean it usually causes clogs in the system. Now this is for homes but I am sure it would play havoc on the filters in trucks.
Mom is 200% right. If the coppers catch you with the wrong color fuel in your tank the fines are very steep. Thought it might be a little tougher to get caught in a van versus a truck where you can look into the tank.
I've heard they pull it from the water separator
Mother is right, water separator or they will take a dip out of the tank. If it's red you're screwed.
Quote from: ducpainter on February 27, 2010, 04:22:23 PM
So...
riddle me this...
why is my heating oil freezing before it gels?
add 5% kerosene. kerosene is just #1 diesel anyhow..
What if it smells and tastes like french fries?
Quote from: Mother on February 27, 2010, 04:26:26 PM
cuz you got water in the tank...?
Don't think so...
It happens with every fresh fill.
After I add Diesel 911 the problem disappears.
Quote from: ducatiz on February 27, 2010, 04:41:41 PM
add 5% kerosene. kerosene is just #1 diesel anyhow..
If the problem was gelling I'd go that route.
The problem is not gelling.
Quote from: Got Duc on February 27, 2010, 03:27:59 PM
he is referring to fuel that is normally used in Excavators, backhoes etc...
It is a different color than normal diesel.
Why would you want it over highway stuff? Cheaper?
Quote from: MrIncredible on February 27, 2010, 04:51:59 PM
Why would you want it over highway stuff? Cheaper?
No...
it still contains sulfur which acts as a lubricant in the injection pumps.
Bio diesel may not be suitable for older injection systems and will work as a solvent, disturbing dirt. Good stuff when used early on in compatible systems.
Quote from: MrIncredible on February 27, 2010, 04:51:59 PM
Why would you want it over highway stuff? Cheaper?
Different (cheaper) tax rate. It is dyed red so the tax people know.
Quote from: ducpainter on February 27, 2010, 04:46:39 PM
Don't think so...
It happens with every fresh fill.
After I add Diesel 911 the problem disappears.If the problem was gelling I'd go that route.
The problem is not gelling.
Have you talked to your oil delivery people? 911 works both for water and cold weather jelling.
Quote from: howie on February 27, 2010, 05:06:13 PM
Have you talked to your oil delivery people? 911 works both for water and cold weather jelling.
No...
I'm going on the info from my service guy...
and the fact that a heat gun on the line where it exits the tank resumes the flow.
Usually heat doesn't re-liquefy diesel.
No answer for why it is freezing.
That is weird.
Quote from: Got Duc on February 27, 2010, 05:28:12 PM
No answer for why it is freezing.
That is weird.
because the ethanol they're adding is turning to water...
just like in gas? [evil]
ahhhhhhh
Quote from: ducpainter on February 27, 2010, 05:33:56 PM
because the ethanol they're adding is turning to water...
just like in gas? [evil]
grrrrrr...make the beast with two backsing ethanol
I'm going to pay flocks of crows to eat all that corn.
Quote from: Got Duc on February 27, 2010, 05:34:43 PM
ahhhhhhh
Keep in mind this is pure speculation.
I do know that pure diesel doesn't freeze.
It will gel.
Heat does
not reverse gellation.
Heat
will thaw ice.
Quote from: ducpainter on February 27, 2010, 05:51:40 PM
Keep in mind this is pure speculation.
I do know that pure diesel doesn't freeze.
incorrect, it will freeze, but at around -50F
QuoteIt will gel.
Heat does not reverse gellation.
Heat will thaw ice.
something is not right. i would try wrapping the pipe and using a low-watt heater. my gut feeling is you've got water in the line though.
kerosene has a higher freezing point and doesn't just work as anti-gel due to being a solvent.
Quote from: Mother on February 27, 2010, 04:11:09 PM
yep and if they find it in your on road rig the fine is very painful
Old boss got caught in NorCal last summer, said it was about $1500
Quote from: Mother on February 27, 2010, 04:11:09 PM
yep and if they find it in your on road rig the fine is very painful
one of my old neighbors had a fuel oil tank on his house.
and a hand pump on it. filled up his truck all the time with it -- an F250
he never had a problem, hard to look in that tank tho
There is a big fine if your truck isn't registered as farm machinery. Some states have that designation. MD does. AZ did and my Uncle ran all their trucks as farm machinery and drove them everywhere.
Finally talked to a mechanic friend over the weekend. Here is the scoop on the 6.0L. Weak head bolts that should be changed out for ARP studs and better gaskets - lots of blown head gaskets and warped heads on these motors. Worthless EGR system. Totally cokes up and can mess up performance and other systems (like coking up the turbo). There are many EGR delete kits on the market. Lots of coked up turbos that seize. Finally the injection system uses oil pressure (hydraulic electronic) to work so frequent oil changes a must or you loose your injectors. I think I'm going to take a pass on this one......
So now it is either wait for a low mileage 2003 and a half or older van or a 2008 and newer low dollar van. They switched to the 6.4 in 2008. No EGR, twin turbos (no variable vane stupidity), completely redesigned head, and back to the tried and true high pressure common rail injection. Downside with the 6.4L - it now has the diesel particulate filter in the exhaust and has to be run on ultra low sulfur diesel (no trips to Mexico.......). Sometimes I hate "progress"........