So, let's say that a friend was looking at getting a newish car that is sporty and AWD, because said friend is moving somewhere with winters, and said friend managed to find two cars near him that he was interested in. One of these cars is a 2008 VW R32 with just a hair over 10k miles, and can be had for $24k. The other is an '07 STI with just under 10k miles, and can most likely be had for about $26k. This friend of yours is newly single, in his late 30s and needs to be able to move a dog around. Which one would you recommend to your friend? ;)
Subaru are fun.. however I'd go for a Forester Turbo/STI or an Audi A4 Quattro.
All I have to add is that everyone and their mom has a Scooby...
Quote from: NAKID on March 30, 2010, 12:52:18 AM
All I have to add is that everyone and their mom has a Scooby...
everyone and their mom has a butthole too
don't make them a bad idea
Well, the Subies are borderline indestructible.....
of those two ... Have Dog = buy R32
Quote from: Speedbag on March 30, 2010, 02:33:02 AM
Well, the Subies are borderline indestructible.....
Which is good, because they are impossiable to work on.
Quote from: wbeck257 on March 30, 2010, 02:41:40 AM
Which is good, because they are impossiable to work on.
Pretty sure that applies to virtually any AWD small car....
Whatever you do, dont get your Subie in the "Widow Gold/Green". A more putrid color I cant imagine!
My vote goes to the R32 with 4Motion. My husband has a GTI (not 4 Motion). The GTI is very fast and responsive so I can imagine with AWD it would be even more so.
My cage is an Acura RL with Super Handling AWD (love it).
Quote from: Speedbag on March 30, 2010, 03:21:39 AM
Pretty sure that applies to virtually any AWD small car....
Having worked on Audi's, VW's and Subis they Subis are waaaaaaayyyyyyy easier to work on.
That being said you can get a nice 2 or 3 year old Audi for that price.
Quote from: Mother on March 30, 2010, 02:11:35 AM
everyone and their mom has a butthole too
don't make them a bad idea
brilliant, sir. bravo.
Quote from: DucaChic on March 30, 2010, 03:49:07 AM
My vote goes to the R32 with 4Motion (which is the same as the Quattro by the way). My husband has a GTI (not 4 Motion). The GTI is very fast and responsive so I can imagine with AWD it would be even more so.
the MKV R32 uses Haldex 4, not quattro which is torsen diffs.
Volkswagen - Haldex 4motion (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNK_W3RumMY#normal)
Haldex is freaking awesome, 2wd when you don't need it, AWD when you do.
along the lines of the R32 also look for a A3q 3.2. nicer car, 4 door, same engine and AWD system. those subies are OK, but much less refined and some what cheap feeling, their awesome if your a 17 year old who likes clear tail lights and big wings [laugh]
drive both of them, buy the one you like, but I do suggest looking at the A3 3.2 as well.
get the R32...
you know you like germans better ;)
Seriously get a 3.2 A3 those cars kick ass.
I have a 99 Impreza wagon and I love it. It just got totaled by an idiot that hit me in broad daylight in a parking lot. I'm looking at a couple newer subies now. I loved mine. You put snow tires on the thing and you are good to go. I tow a snowmobile on a small trailer and have gotten in and out of some hairy spots. I pulled a tacoma out once and multiple suvs that tourists have gotten stuck in our parking lot. While the STI is sweet I would look at things with more ground clearance personally. Depends on how much snow the area gets. If its not much the sti would be fine. Where I live we get anywhere from 300-600+ inches in a winter so ground clearance matters to me. I've only done scheduled maintenance on mine and it had close to 140K on it.
Quote from: teddy037.2 on March 30, 2010, 07:16:45 AM
get the R32...
you know you like germans better ;)
Here's the kicker Teddy, the same place just took in a Mk IV R32 with about 14k miles on it. Just wanted you to know because of that sweet spot you have for that generation. ;)
Quote from: DRKWNG on March 30, 2010, 07:55:27 AM
Here's the kicker Teddy, the same place just took in a Mk IV R32 with about 14k miles on it. Just wanted you to know because of that sweet spot you have for that generation. ;)
oh, you bastid!
And, the bilstein coilovers and OZ wheels I have on the GTI will swap right over. ;)
Quote from: teddy037.2 on March 30, 2010, 07:16:45 AM
get the R32...
you know you like germans better ;)
unpimp ze auto!!!!!!
Quote from: DRKWNG on March 30, 2010, 08:01:07 AM
And, the bilstein coilovers and OZ wheels I have on the GTI will swap right over. ;)
I am not listening to this anymore
[laugh]
Quote from: Mother on March 30, 2010, 08:02:08 AM
unpimp ze auto!!!!!!
LOLz I loved that ad campaign
If you can spend 25K on a golf, then find a used 335i and live with the RWD.
Oh yeah, live with the 400hp with a plug in piggy-back tuner too, all on 93 octane.
I worked at a BMW/VW dealership for 3 years....Unless something drastic has changed in the last 5 years, I wouldn't buy a VW for 25 when I could have a LOT more car for a little more $$.
Drive them both.
Quote from: MrIncredible on March 30, 2010, 08:49:45 AM
Drive them both.
MrI, do you get snow where you live? How did your 3-series do? Did you have snow tires or just all-seasons on it?
Quote from: Autostrada Pilot on March 30, 2010, 09:03:23 AM
MrI, do you get snow where you live? How did your 3-series do? Did you have snow tires or just all-seasons on it?
We get enough to identify it as snow on the side of the road-that's about it.
The car has been to tahoe in the winter (plenty of snow) where it did fine. It did have chains on all four tires, but that was mandatory (chain control). All seasons were on it. It did fine in the snow sans chains as well.
That car itself is very well balanced, so I wouldn't expect any problems, unless it had to do with the shitty ground clearance, or an unskilled operator.
caveat:
I learned to drive in the snow in a '61 newport which had been modded-aka one wheel drive, overpowered and unbalanced. This was in central mass, in the "city of seven hills". My perspective is screwy on what is an acceptable snow car.
R32
VW Unpimp - What time is it (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuC6jeKjTdg#normal)
Quote from: TAftonomos on March 30, 2010, 08:49:10 AM
If you can spend 25K on a golf, then find a used 335i and live with the RWD.
Oh yeah, live with the 400hp with a plug in piggy-back tuner too, all on 93 octane.
I worked at a BMW/VW dealership for 3 years....Unless something drastic has changed in the last 5 years, I wouldn't buy a VW for 25 when I could have a LOT more car for a little more $$.
As much as I do love BMWs, and miss my old one, I don't see myself going back down that road. To me, the last of their cars that I would consider is the E46 and they are getting a bit hard to come by configured the way I would want and in decent shape. There is a pretty nice looking M3 down here, a 2006 model, and I completely trust the people who are selling it, but it has a bit over 50k miles on it, and that is just more than I am willing to consider. Plus, BMWs can get astronomically expensive to fix/maintain once they are more than five or so years old. I have had a 2000 GTI with the VR6 motor (R32's little brother) since new and that thing has been bullet proof for more than 110k miles. [thumbsup]
Quote from: MrIncredible on March 30, 2010, 08:49:45 AM
Drive them both.
I have. I got to take the VW on one of the more twisty roads we have here on the island and I was quite surprised with it. I handled SO MUCH better than my suspension tuned Mk IV, and really hid all that weight that sits ahead of the front axle. I was also surprised with the DSG. I had driven a few of the newer Mk VI GTIs with the same transmission and walked away feeling meh, but this one felt pretty nice and seemed to shift a lot quicker. I can only assume that it works a bit better with the haldex system than pure front wheel drive, as the original owner of the car stated that he never had the controller re-flashed.
I drove the Scooby a bit yesterday, but it was on a road that I was not that familiar with. It did have a bit more of an agricultural feel to it, but it all honesty I kind of expected that. The car is no where near as refined as the VW, but has a good bit more power and overall scoot. Plus, being able to select how you want the power to be distributed front-to-rear is kind of nice. It's just a shame that it is so "HEY, LOOK AT ME!!!".
I am probably going to go and take both of them back out later today...
Quote from: Autostrada Pilot on March 30, 2010, 09:03:23 AM
How did your 3-series do? Did you have snow tires or just all-seasons on it?
A properly driven RWD BMW can handle light snow pretty damn well, and you will have no problems at all if you put actual snow tires on it. I drove mine through two winters in Germany and never had an issue.
I'm serious man, add a 3.2 A3 to your line up. based on the golf, but much, much nicer, suspension tuned better, they generally all came with nav and HID's.
(http://tpscene.com/pic/done9.jpg)
Quote from: acalles on March 30, 2010, 10:02:59 AM
I'm serious man, add a 3.2 A3 to your line up. based on the golf, but much, much nicer, suspension tuned better, they generally all came with nav and HID's.
(http://tpscene.com/pic/done9.jpg)
I've looked at these as well, and would really like them. The problem is that I can probably get the R32 for closer to 22K and the only way to get an A3 for that price is to find one with MUCH higher milage. The R32 only has 10k on it, and I have talked to the previous owner, and know that it is in really good shape.
Seems like your friend has already made up his mind ;D [thumbsup] Just don't get mad when a twin turbo 3 series blows by ya ;D ;D (BMW fanboy here)
Like I said, I like BMWs too. Just not the E90 series. ;)
And don't worry, a blown R32 wouldn't get shot down quite as easily as you might think.
I work at a VW dealer and have a sweet spot for them, and I also own a Scooby Baja Turbo. My .02 is get the MK 4 R32 or find a nice Legacy GT 2.5 Turbo. Nothing against an EVO or an STI ( as they are very compitant vehicles) , but they scream "Look at me!" to the cops as a high profile vehicle. I like the fit and feel of the MK4 R32 better than the MK5 and it is a more reliable unit overall. The Legacy GT 2.5T is basically a slightly detuned and slightly heavier STi without the insurance pricetag or profile and more comfort and convenience. The last option if you don't mind going a lil older is to find a nice Audi S4 Avant with the 2.7BT in it.
I am more for the undercover utility purpose than the flash factor with an ideal of owning long term and dealing with the variant maintenance and ownership costs when I make these suggestions, so take it for what it's worth.
Quote from: zooom on March 30, 2010, 11:46:00 AM
I work at a VW dealer and have a sweet spot for them, and I also own a Scooby Baja Turbo. My .02 is get the MK 4 R32 or find a nice Legacy GT 2.5 Turbo. Nothing against an EVO or an STI ( as they are very compitant vehicles) , but they scream "Look at me!" to the cops as a high profile vehicle. I like the fit and feel of the MK4 R32 better than the MK5 and it is a more reliable unit overall. The Legacy GT 2.5T is basically a slightly detuned and slightly heavier STi without the insurance pricetag or profile and more comfort and convenience. The last option if you don't mind going a lil older is to find a nice Audi S4 Avant with the 2.7BT in it.
Good info. What do you tend to find on the Mk IVs as more reliable than the Mk V?
Quote from: zooom
I am more for the undercover utility purpose than the flash factor with an ideal of owning long term and dealing with the variant maintenance and ownership costs when I make these suggestions, so take it for what it's worth.
I like the low key factor of the R as well. One (only thing really) thing I didn't like about the S2000 was that every little punk kid was wanting to try and race.
Have you considered some sort of little red convertible?
Mid-life crises is just around the corner ;) :-*
Quote from: MrIncredible on March 30, 2010, 11:51:54 AM
Have you considered some sort of little red convertible?
Just sold this:
(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z53/b_upton/DSC_0070.jpg)
Maybe, but those red stripes on the wheels gave me an extra 50 bajillion hp!
Quote from: DRKWNG on March 30, 2010, 11:50:38 AM
Good info. What do you tend to find on the Mk IVs as more reliable than the Mk V?
1st...the manual transmission is more reliable than the DSG with the errant mechatronic issues we've had.
2nd...doing repair yourself with VAG-Com and software protocols is easier to work around and through with the MK4.
3rd...as someone previously pointed out of the Haldex units and their nature....and they are serviceable...
4th...the chassis is lighter in the old gen and it feels more planted to me and I think it is due to the subframe in part and it's design and composition.
I am sure there are a few other things, but am drawing a blank right now as I am seeing the clock and it is time to head home from work....I'll check in on this tommorrow and maybe remember some of the other things....
Thanks! One thing I was curious about, isn't the Haldex system the same between the Mk IV and Mk V?
Also, I have heard mixed reports on the mechatronic issue on the DSG boxes. At first I heard that VW was going to do a recall on all of them (especially the early production cars), but then later heard that VW reversed that decision. Got any idea on that? If I send you the vin, can you verify if this vehicle needs it?
Quote from: DRKWNG on March 30, 2010, 12:07:51 PM
Thanks! One thing I was curious about, isn't the Haldex system the same between the Mk IV and Mk V?
Also, I have heard mixed reports on the mechatronic issue on the DSG boxes. At first I heard that VW was going to do a recall on all of them (especially the early production cars), but then later heard that VW reversed that decision. Got any idea on that? If I send you the vin, can you verify if this vehicle needs it?
DSG warranty was extended to 100k miles.
the haldex 2 in the MK4 does not have a pump or pressure reservoir, you have to have 1/4 wheel turn before it has enough pressure to engage the rear diff. Haldex 4 in the later cars has a pump and reservoir, it can engage the clutches as soon as you apply the pedal, before you even start moving. it can also apply more torque to the rear, some thing like 60% vs the 40% in the earlier system.
they both have tuned controllers available, the haldex 4 has the possibility of a tuned controller with a remote to pick between comfort, sport, and race. they are normally set in sport.
I've only replaced one haldex unit, and it was failed due to the car being jumped backwards, also killed the instrument cluster and the lateral accell sensor.
OR.. keep a look out on vortex, I see turbo MK4 R32's for sale their every once in a while, usually mid 20k mile range.
Quote from: acalles on March 30, 2010, 01:49:41 PM
I've only replaced one haldex unit, and it was failed due to the car being jumped backwards, also killed the instrument cluster and the lateral accell sensor.
ok, that's a story i wanna hear. [evil]
Quote from: derby on March 30, 2010, 01:52:12 PM
ok, that's a story i wanna hear. [evil]
what, that tow truck drivers can't tell the difference between black and red?
$50 tow for a dead battery, almost $2500 in parts, they couldn't prove the truck driver did it. they had to pay it.
then I told them, you need a timing belt and they didn't listen, and 3 mo later I was doing another 3K in work to this beat up TT.
Quote from: acalles on March 30, 2010, 01:58:53 PM
what, that tow truck drivers can't tell the difference between black and red?
$50 tow for a dead battery, almost $2500 in parts, they couldn't prove the truck driver did it. they had to pay it.
then I told them, you need a timing belt and they didn't listen, and 3 mo later I was doing another 3K in work to this beat up TT.
I heard "jumped backwards" and I was thinking off a ramp.
Quote from: MrIncredible on March 30, 2010, 02:02:12 PM
I heard "jumped backwards" and I was thinking off a ramp.
+1
I can't blame the tow truck driver too much, I too once jumpered a car backwards - luckily no damage.
mitt
Quote from: MrIncredible on March 30, 2010, 02:02:12 PM
I heard "jumped backwards" and I was thinking off a ramp.
[laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh]
I wish it was that exciting.
I also forgot, in backwoods northern NM dialect of broken english we speak here, the past tense of "jumping" as in, catching air, is ramped.
so in that case it would have been "ya bro, they ramped it backwards, bigger then shit, I guess they weren't putting attention to the road" [laugh] [laugh]
Quote from: DRKWNG on March 30, 2010, 12:07:51 PM
Also, I have heard mixed reports on the mechatronic issue on the DSG boxes. At first I heard that VW was going to do a recall on all of them (especially the early production cars), but then later heard that VW reversed that decision. Got any idea on that? If I send you the vin, can you verify if this vehicle needs it?
as far as the mixed reports...lately it is dependant on the codes at the time and what the techline and the field engineer/rep says to get done based on their evalutation on an individual basis.
The potential recall is moreso due to a pinched wire connection going to a specific temperature oriented sensor in the unit and them deliniating the specific rance of units that got that part installed which is still not clear due to the 3rd party subletter that was assembling those units and information not available completely yet...so they are not sure which cars on the VW and Audi platforms to call in as a whole, so they are still handling them on a case by case basis under the guidance of a technical service bulletin.
As far as anything VIN oriented, PM me and we'll talk.
pm sent
buy a mustang and take the bus in the winter.
Or buy a Mustang and become a really good driver in the winter.
I've driven both the cars you're looking at....
not THE cars, but both models [laugh]
I like both of them. Here are my thoughts. If you're going to be racing it on the track, or doing some rallying, or soming honda civics at the stoplights. Go STI. If you're going to be driving it often, taking it out for dinner and hitting some twisties on the way home. R32.
The VW is so much more civilized on the inside and in ride quality. It was still REALLY fun on the backroads. Maybe not as fast as the STI, but smoother, and more civilized I guess. The STI was fast, in straight lines and through the country...but the interior looked like it came out of my mid 90's mitsubishi. Hard plastics...gaps....and on top of that, the car had a rough ride. Not terrible, by any means, but way more rough than the VW (R32 or GTI).
obviously the DSG is having some problems (in some cars), but when it works....man...IT WORKS
Quote from: corey on April 01, 2010, 06:48:25 AM
buy a mustang.
Now why would I go and do a silly thing like that?
Quote from: Le Pirate on April 01, 2010, 07:27:34 AM
I've driven both the cars you're looking at....
not THE cars, but both models [laugh]
I like both of them. Here are my thoughts. If you're going to be racing it on the track, or doing some rallying, or soming honda civics at the stoplights. Go STI. If you're going to be driving it often, taking it out for dinner and hitting some twisties on the way home. R32.
The VW is so much more civilized on the inside and in ride quality. It was still REALLY fun on the backroads. Maybe not as fast as the STI, but smoother, and more civilized I guess. The STI was fast, in straight lines and through the country...but the interior looked like it came out of my mid 90's mitsubishi. Hard plastics...gaps....and on top of that, the car had a rough ride. Not terrible, by any means, but way more rough than the VW (R32 or GTI).
obviously the DSG is having some problems (in some cars), but when it works....man...IT WORKS
Thanks for the info. This is pretty much the conclusion I came up with as well and have pretty much decided that I will go for the R32 if I decide to make a move on either.