People suck (http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Weekend/dying-homeless-man-stopped-mugging-york-sidewalk/story?id=10471047)
live in a big city? you can keep it. >:(
sorry if this is a derby.
Wtf??
Quote from: herm (not herb) on April 25, 2010, 04:41:22 PM
People suck (http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Weekend/dying-homeless-man-stopped-mugging-york-sidewalk/story?id=10471047)
live in a big city? you can keep it. >:(
sorry if this is a derby.
I don't think you can get far enough away.
It was 5:30am. He was homeless. It looked like he was sleeping. You can't see a pool of blood coming out from under him, and noone saw him get stabbed. (other than the woman he saved! why the F didn't she call 911?!?!)
Living in the city you walk by sleeping homeless people all the time. You just keep walking by... how the hell can you tell the difference between a dead person and someone sleeping?
Quote from: Vindingo on April 25, 2010, 06:19:13 PM]
... how the hell can you tell the difference between a dead person and someone sleeping?
One of them is breathing.
Quote from: kopfjäger on April 25, 2010, 06:22:04 PM
One of them is breathing.
I guess it becomes such a common thing you don't stare. You can't tell if someone is breathing with a glance out of the corner of your eye.
Im not saying that this isn't completely make the beast with two backsed, it just doesn't seem as unthinkable as the news people are making it out to be. AND... I don't think it has anything to do with violence like the article states. Noone saw the guy get stabbed, he was on the floor. There was nothing violent about the situation.
Some people disgust me.
Quote from: Vindingo on April 25, 2010, 06:19:13 PM
It was 5:30am. He was homeless. It looked like he was sleeping. You can't see a pool of blood coming out from under him, and noone saw him get stabbed. (other than the woman he saved! why the F didn't she call 911?!?!)
Living in the city you walk by sleeping homeless people all the time. You just keep walking by... how the hell can you tell the difference between a dead person and someone sleeping?
Gotta agree with Vindingo. They probably thought he was sleeping. Nonetheless, not a pretty snapshot of mankind.
Most folk probably thought he was sleeping, but the person who rolled him over didn't.
May his soul rest in peace.
If he was not obviously/visibly injured and was "homeless" looking..... people assumed he was passed out-drunk and could potentially lurch insanely at them if he was disturbed.
NY-ers have become pretty damn compassion-weary since the State decided to de-institutionalize the insane and mentally disturbed population. The majority of the so-called "Homeless" are in fact insane people who were set loose on the public under the pretense that they would be responsible and take their meds and show-up at the out-patient facilities to get the meds and stay on track
It was a sham and a pretense from the get-go....Governor Cuomo signed off on it a few decades ago...it was and is a disingenuous horrifying abandonment of humans who need care more than most other citizenry...
but it freed up an enormous amount of tax dollars that could be re-directed to programs that were more attractive to the State and its endless squadron of politicians wanting kickbacks for contract awards and to keep a bloated corrupt bureaucracy expanding
The State wants to fleece people for revenue it does not want to spend that money taking care of them
that being said....the good people of Queens have a long history of turning a blind eye to humans in crisis...read up on the Kitty Genovese stabbing in 1964....or the stories of the people living around JFK Airport scavenging the luggage of dead passengers on planes that have crashed in the area
here's a slogan for you "We're Humans, We Make Cockroaches Look Dignified!!!"
That's one of the reasons I moved out of nyc. I remember when some large psycho attacked one of my fiances on a crowded subway. I wrestled this 280 lb. gorilla off the train after punching him in the neck. An entire subway car full of people just sat and watched. After the transit police came and hauled the nutbar away, I sat there bleeding from my wounds after being slashed. The people on the train started to applaud and thank me for stopping this psycho who regulary beat and slashed people on this train. I turned to them and said "make the beast with two backs you".
I like how the article states it is main stream movies, video games, etc for allowing it to happen.
Always need to find a scape goat.
Kind of agree with Vindingo.
I'd like more info to make a real determination.
Not to mention.......it was 530am.
Idk about you folk but I ignore the homeless-just step over 'em like a human speedbump.
If I saw the guy bleeding out, sure I'd call for help. Other than that though, sorry, not looking at you, no spare change.
what happened is reality, not a movie.
unfortunately no matter how "good" people think they are, until they are in the exact same situation you never know how you will react. sad to say most people's lives are hectic and busy enough... add in getting involved in a "potentially" more busy situation in this case a potential death and such, ie police reports on how you found a dead person, why you left the scene, someone else asking you questions, etc.. all bc you helped someone out and you still "have to get to" your child's recital, and now you know why people don't want to get involved... because "its their time" and they dont' want to be bothered.
don't be so quick to say people are bad because they didn't help, would you have stopped for a few hours to help if you "had" to get to a function or such or a job? maybe you would, maybe you wouldn't what if stopping cost you your job, etc? now would you be so quick to stop and lend a hand for a while?
Quote from: sbrguy on April 26, 2010, 08:11:49 AM
what happened is reality, not a movie.
unfortunately no matter how "good" people think they are, until they are in the exact same situation you never know how you will react. sad to say most people's lives are hectic and busy enough... add in getting involved in a "potentially" more busy situation in this case a potential death and such, ie police reports on how you found a dead person, why you left the scene, someone else asking you questions, etc.. all bc you helped someone out and you still "have to get to" your child's recital, and now you know why people don't want to get involved... because "its their time" and they dont' want to be bothered.
don't be so quick to say people are bad because they didn't help, would you have stopped for a few hours to help if you "had" to get to a function or such or a job? maybe you would, maybe you wouldn't what if stopping cost you your job, etc? now would you be so quick to stop and lend a hand for a while?
Too busy and hectic to save a life???
I have been there and I know how I reacted. Everyone else sucks!
Quote from: sbrguy on April 26, 2010, 08:11:49 AM
don't be so quick to say people are bad because they didn't help, would you have stopped for a few hours to help if you "had" to get to a function or such or a job?
Yes. Not a difficult decision [roll]
And IMO, this is one of the problems with our society: moral relativism run amock.
Quote from: herm (not herb) on April 25, 2010, 04:41:22 PM
People suck (http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Weekend/dying-homeless-man-stopped-mugging-york-sidewalk/story?id=10471047)
live in a big city? you can keep it. >:(
Maybe I'm naive, but I doubt this is indicative of city life in ALL big cities. I never found NYC to be a friendly place, exactly.
Other than call 911 what else would one do?
I sure as shit am not touching a strangers blood without proper protection to myself.
but then again, I won't administer CPR without a micro shield.
And yes, I do own one and always have it in my car or moto jacket.
family and good friends don't fall into the above category.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on April 26, 2010, 09:23:51 AM
Other than call 911 what else would one do?
I sure as shit am not touching a strangers blood without proper protection to myself.
but then again, I won't administer CPR without a micro shield.
And yes, I do own one and always have it in my car or moto jacket.
family and good friends don't fall into the above category.
I wouldn't expect heroic action, but I would expect someone to call 911, which apparently no one did for close to two hours, That one call might have saved this person's life.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on April 26, 2010, 09:23:51 AM
Other than call 911 what else would one do?
I sure as shit am not touching a strangers blood without proper protection to myself.
family and good friends don't fall into the above category.
That's reasonable, cb, I can totally understand those concerns. But direct pressure on wounds, along with other basic 1st aid, might have made a difference. Or just not allowing another human being to die bleeding in the street without even a hand to hold might have made a difference.
But if, as was previously stated by someone else, one had a previous engagement, by all means, just let him bleed [roll]
edit:
key points
a) dont blame the people for walking by him. If you dont know why, come live in NYC for a few months.
b) for the people who didnt walk by and actually checked to see if he was alive ( watch the video), your make the beast with two backsed up.
c) for everyone else, dont say you'll do something in a certain situation cause chances are you will never be in that exact situation the exact same way you describe it. otherwise you should never make the wrong choice.
Quote from: cyrus buelton on April 26, 2010, 06:46:21 AM
I like how the article states it is main stream movies, video games, etc for allowing it to happen.
Always need to find a scape goat.
The
bystander effect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect) has been known about since at least the 60's, so that seems doubtful. I agree, just a scape goat.
Quote from: He Man on April 26, 2010, 09:53:46 AM
c) for everyone else, dont say you'll do something in a certain situation cause chances are you will never be in that exact situation the exact same way you describe it. otherwise you should never make the wrong choice.
I've been in that situation, more than once, and have made the decision to help. I guess you should do whatever lets you look at yourself in the mirror.
Vinnie's right. No one walked by and thought, "hey, look...that dude's gonna die. Damn, I need to get to Starbuck's before I go to the office"
You get used to a particular environment and unless there's a major deviation, you process the environment the same way. In this case, people are used to seeing sleeping homeless people and reacted the same way they always would.
Most people live their lives on auto-pilot, simply unable to re-assess and re-evaluate ones environment all the time. They have the things they really care about, the things they really pay attention to and the rest is background noise.
How many people here have passed a vehicle abandoned on the side of the highway? Did you stop at all of them and check for a driver? What if that vehicle had stopped because the driver was having a heart attack and slumped over? My guess is no one would call 911 then either because no one would notice.
Wow - breaks your heart that people can be so selfish and self absorbed as to not even stop to check on him. It's as bad as the person who died in the ER waiting room because they ignored them for 8 hours. :-\
Terrible.
I gotta agree with the other big city folks that have chimed in here.
The girl is off the hook as she just ran from the attacker.
The dude that rolled the guy over and should have seen blood should have called 911...no excuse for him.
If blood wasn't visible, then I would have done the same as the people who just walked by though. I walk by homeless people here all the time. Sometimes they're sleeping in doorways, sometimes sleeing in the middle of a park, sometimes on the sidewalk. Seattle is bad, San Francisco (2 big cities I've lived) was even worse. You get used to seeing it so it becomes normal. If I checked every one, I'd constantly be doing it, and I'd also probably get attacked by one eventually. No thanks. I'll call 911 if I ever see something out of the ordinary...but someone sleeping/passed out on the sidewalk isn't out of the ordinary (for downtown anyway).
For those saying they would do something, have you ever seen a homeless person on a cold night? Ever offer a warm place to stay or a blanket? Homeless people freeze to death every year...so if you saw one and did nothing, then you did the same thing as the people who walked by this guy.
What I've noticed about big city folks, more so in NYC then Chicago........
Auto Pilot.
I-Pod in the ears, texting on a phone, and going about their business.
Rarely do they look around to see what the make the beast with two backs is going on.
But yeah.......if someone flipped him over and saw blood.....911 should have been called.
But if no blood visible. How the hell would you know?
Quote from: somegirl on April 26, 2010, 11:03:22 AM
The bystander effect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect) has been known about since at least the 60's, so that seems doubtful. I agree, just a scape goat.
Reminds me of the final Seinfeld Episode where they get arrested for the good Samaritan law when they let that fat guy get mugged.
I just love the spin blaming TV and Video Games.
Has that shit even scientifically proven a de-sensitized nature about us?
An actual peer reviewed, long-term study? If so, I'd like to read it.
I wrote a Mass Comm paper in college on Columbine and the media effect. I couldn't find shit on a correlation of studies of them playing video games or whatever they did to them killing those innocent kids. However, that was in 2003, so a lot of studies may have emerged since then or I didn't give two shits about the class and did sloppy research. Still got an A, though.
......and we don't hesitate to step over the carcasses of our own helpless and lost...
we put them out on the streets and yet can send hundreds of millions around the planet Darfur, Haiti ablah ablah
host pious do-gooder concerts for popular international disasters like they are Pet Rock fads...get a big ol' vanity buzz going
and congratulate ourselves on our fabulous sense of humanity
Quote from: RAT900 on April 26, 2010, 12:09:42 PM
......and we don't hesitate to step over the carcasses of our own helpless and lost...
we put them out on the streets and yet can send hundreds of millions around the planet Darfur, Haiti ablah ablah
host pious do-gooder concerts for popular international disasters like they are Pet Rock fads...get a big ol' vanity buzz going
and congratulate ourselves on our fabulous sense of humanity
Yep. And my belief is that we in America have put forth the notion that those downtrodden masses sleeping in the gutter deserve to be there by their own actions and are unworthy of our help. Which, personally is BS and I give to charities to help those individuals here as well as around the world, but it does seem that's attitude of many others.
Quote from: swampduc on April 26, 2010, 11:07:22 AM
I've been in that situation, more than once, and have made the decision to help. I guess you should do whatever lets you look at yourself in the mirror.
Your quoting me, so what is it your trying to say to me?
Lets recap, you've lived in NYC, saw a bum on the floor and dialed 911.
Or did you poke and prod every bum you see while you were living in NYC before you called 911?
Im pretty make the beast with two backsing amazed that you think youre a better person just because you inspect all 30,000 homeless people before you go to sleep at night.
And if you dont, its pretty sad to see you think that just because you make sure 2-3 homeless people are alive before they go to sleep hungry, dirty and without a job everynight, that you can look at yourself in the mirror.
Be real dude. Real people know they cant help a homeless guy except spare some change, and give him some food, a cig or some alcohol to ease the stress. Does it make me feel better at night? i can honestly tell you i dont care too much. I dont think about it. I dont feel anything about it. But i dont think im an asshole casue i didnt give him a place to sleep, or make sure hes okay cause hes passed out drunk. What if the dude was coked up and stabs you after you stick your face in his? And if you've seen as many homeless people as some of us, youll be desentized to.
The only thing i have to say is, bums dont normally collapse in the middle of the sidewalk. Thats about the only thing I can say that woudl throw a red flag for me. And even then id approach with caution. Id poke him iwth my foot and scream at him. Then call the cops, once they get the call, im bouncing.
I never pass a Salvation Army kettle without stuffing money in it...
I used to call it an investment in my future...
but kidding aside, dollar for dollar they deliver
always research a charity's rating
plenty of sites on the web report how much of the dollar goes to the program versus the salaries and "expenses"
there are some real eye-openrs on what a scam it is in many cases
Quote from: superjohn on April 26, 2010, 12:16:42 PM
Yep. And my belief is that we in America have put forth the notion that those downtrodden masses sleeping in the gutter deserve to be there by their own actions and are unworthy of our help. Which, personally is BS and I give to charities to help those individuals here as well as around the world, but it does seem that's attitude of many others.
Life is full of choices. Some choices lead to good things, others (like drug use and alcohol abuse) can lead to terrible things. Not all homeless people don't deserve to be there, and some prefer it.
Obviously some are mentally ill, and desperately need/deserve help. Some are just down on their luck and also deserve/need help. Others are tweekers/slackers/losers by choice. They get what they deserve IMO.
Just as all homeless can't be categorized as losers...all can't be categorized as victims either.
saying both that big city people suck for not doing anything, but avoiding big cities for their problems, is a bit of a clash of holier than thou-isms is it not?
So...if you deemed to live here with our poverty and our mental health issue homelessness, you would do something, but you choose to live far far away and criticize peoples' lack of action from there.
I personally focus on the kids, because the system for adults sucks...the same people who rant we should do something to help the homeless here are the same people who file suits on their behalf ensuring they cannot be held indoors against their will. The standard for danger to self or others is very high, and even then results in a very short stay somewhere safe.
G has 'regulars' in the ER.
Quote from: Statler on April 26, 2010, 01:04:27 PM
saying both that big city people suck for not doing anything, but avoiding big cities for their problems, is a bit of a clash of holier than thou-isms is it not?
So...if you deemed to live here with our poverty and our mental health issue homelessness, you would do something, but you choose to live far far away and criticize peoples' lack of action from there.
I moved away from the people who suck, not the homeless. I still have plenty of them out here.
this discussion would be more fun over a beer.
Quote from: Statler on April 26, 2010, 03:14:36 PM
this discussion would be more fun over a beer.
I'll buy, you fly. Let me know when to pick you up at the airport.
Quote from: silentbob on April 26, 2010, 09:17:14 AM
Too busy and hectic to save a life???
I have been there and I know how I reacted. Everyone else sucks!
took the words right off my keyboard...except i think everyone else is a <deleted to avoid being banned>
Quote from: Statler on April 26, 2010, 01:04:27 PM
saying both that big city people suck for not doing anything, but avoiding big cities for their problems, is a bit of a clash of holier than thou-isms is it not?
So...if you deemed to live here with our poverty and our mental health issue homelessness, you would do something, but you choose to live far far away and criticize peoples' lack of action from there.
I personally focus on the kids, because the system for adults sucks...the same people who rant we should do something to help the homeless here are the same people who file suits on their behalf ensuring they cannot be held indoors against their will. The standard for danger to self or others is very high, and even then results in a very short stay somewhere safe.
G has 'regulars' in the ER.
i can only speak for myself here...and not even sure if i was the intended recipient of your post.
i never said that big city people suck, just people in general.
i DID say that i have no interest in living in an environment where so many people have no regard for one another.
Perhaps it is a matter of perspective. City boy drives thru the country, stares at all things agricultural with rapt attention cause it's "new" and "different". Country boy driving same route doesn't pay two cents attention to the same, as it is just background noise to him. Now reverse it in the city. Country boy walking down the sidewalk looks at everything in amazement, and tries to take it all in. City boy, just walking down the street getting to where he is going, paying no attention to anything that is normal "city background noise". Neither person is better or worse than the other, they are just accustomed to and immune to their environments.
words fail me.
Quote from: silentbob on April 26, 2010, 03:20:15 PM
I'll buy, you fly. Let me know when to pick you up at the airport.
No...
you fly.
It will do you good to leave Cali.
Come to DIMBY...
I'll buy the booze.
You, me, Chris, and anyone else that shows can solve the worlds' problems in one night. ;)
Back on topic...
Me...if I saw a guy lying on the ground...
I'd do
something ...
besides ignore it.
Quote from: ducpainter on April 26, 2010, 04:25:16 PM
No...
you fly.
It will do you good to leave Cali.
Come to DIMBY...
I'll buy the booze.
You, me, Chris, and anyone else that shows can solve the worlds' problems in one night. ;)
Back on topic...
Me...if I saw a guy lying on the ground...
I'd do something ...
besides ignore it.
I've seen this in action.
He gave me a care bear.
my "you" wasn't aimed at anyone. It was just a plural pronoun. I should have said 'one' or 'people'
strange perspective:
I'll walk past at least three sleeping people on the street between the garage and the courthouse tomorrow. No way I'm checking on any of them. The cops will as they come by. Could be asleep. Could be dead.
I almost got beaten when I brought a snowshovel in my truck to Court and, in my suit, shovelled the sidewalk in front of the homeless shelter next door to Court. Apparantly I was disrespecting someone.
so roll someone over and check a pulse? nope. Not here.
Now if someone outside in the burbs is like that of course we stop and check. We put out a small fire in a girl's VW on an onramp a few weeks ago and called 911. Nobody else stopped.
So I understand the desire....but perhaps it's become such a normal thing to see people lying down sleeping that it's a particular situation different than the average bear of helping others.
I don't know.
Quote from: MrIncredible on April 26, 2010, 04:30:46 PM
I've seen this in action.
He gave me a care bear.
me too!
good to know someone cares..
Quote from: MrIncredible on April 26, 2010, 04:30:46 PM
I've seen this in action.
He gave me a care bear.
Does it make me a bad person? ;D
I guess my perspective is skewed.
I live where I live because it gives me a sense of community.
I know a bunch of people...and they know me.
If any of us
really needs something there is usually someone that can help.
Maybe I'm just lucky.
Quote from: Statler on April 26, 2010, 04:34:33 PM
I almost got beaten when I brought a snowshovel in my truck to Court and, in my suit, shovelled the sidewalk in front of the homeless shelter next door to Court. Apparantly I was disrespecting someone.
In 95, my best friend got his ass kicked by 3 "urban campers" coming out of a diner at 4 am after he had just bought breakfast for their "buddy", who 40 minutes earlier had hit him up for change on the street. In the city, some forms of "charity" are not without their risks.
i had my front teeth knocked out with a baseball bat in 1991, in Boston. i was a bystander who tried to reason with some guys trying to crash a friends party. if i hadnt ducked, i probably would have had my brains knocked out instead. i was 21.
I dont worry so much about charity/compassion, so much as doing the right thing.
This is just another example of news media trying to blame violence on video games. Anyone who has ever been in Philadelphia has seen homeless sleeping on the streets and in the parks. Whoever is saying you can tell the difference between dead and sleeping, or dying and drunk/drugged has never been to a major city. The only person at fault in this situation would be the guy who rolled the body, saw the blood, and left. Everyone else was just going about business as usual.
Quote from: somegirl on April 26, 2010, 11:03:22 AM
The bystander effect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect) has been known about since at least the 60's, so that seems doubtful. I agree, just a scape goat.
I don't think anyone read your link
The bystander apathy effect is what happened here
but
no one wants to read and understand it
Here is (IMO) a better explaination of it
Darley and Latane Study of the Bystander Apathy Effect (http://www.nniland.com/AP%20Psych%20Documents/Ch%2013%20-%20Darley%20Latane%20Study.pdf)
I read them and they make reference to the same instance I made to Kitty Genovese
2 issues are at hand here.. there is a distinction between a circumstance that would trigger Samaritan behavior vs. triggering Personal avoidance/flight behavior.
In the instance of the "sleeping/drunk homeless person" people will not risk attack or fatal disease-transmitting bites and spitting to determine if said individual is in crisis.
On the subway one does not know generally if a fight is between two rival gang members, a girlfriend and boyfriend, pimp and hooker etc acting-out
again they will not risk injury disease or death for an uncertain circumstance
also keep in mind that the law abiding populace in most urban areas have been disarmed and lack the tools to equalize a violent circumstance even if the players' roles appear cut-and-dried...the bad guys and the police are the sole carriers of weaponry
NYC Transit undercover often disguise themselves as homeless and ride the trains...if such an individual got into a fray with a "normal" looking pickpocket...what would the judgement call be?
I will be honest...if I saw a person swinging a machete at a crowd I would head in the opposite direction...even if I was carrying....if I interceded I would be charged with vigilantism would be broken financially and would be reviled as an armed lunatic
"Justice/Enforcement" has become the sole province of law-enforcement and they don't like people interfering in their area of operations
in the end, circumstances dictate and drive response.....I was downtown on 9/11 and I saw more courage sacrifice and bravery than I will ever witness again...by the very same people who walk past the homeless and ride the subways and witness altercations and don't jump in
we did not run away from the disaster we went toward it to help
there are no hard and fast rules to human behavior...just myriad exceptions to what some people would like to believe they know about us as a species
yes there is
man is inherently selfish and motivated purely by subjective desire
the concept of selflessness is a myth
there is always a personal benefit to any act
be it helpful or harmful
that transient died purely because those involved and those that walked by saw no gain by helping him
You're a cynic
Quote from: ducpainter on April 27, 2010, 04:23:23 AM
You're a cynic
because I believe all people are selfish...yes
the rest of the parameters of the definition do not fit
socrates was a cynic
I said...'They refused Jesus too'
He said...'You're not him'
Quote from: Mother on April 27, 2010, 04:21:42 AM
that transient died purely because those involved and those that walked by saw no gain by helping him
That seems to imply there was a conscious decision involved.
With exception of the d-bag who took a picture of the poor guy I doubt anyone had the slightest thought process about the situation and wrote it off as background noise as previously stated.
Quote from: ducpainter on April 27, 2010, 04:35:30 AM
I said...'They refused Jesus too'
He said...'You're not him'
exactly
Quote from: alfisti on April 27, 2010, 04:39:01 AM
That seems to imply there was a conscious decision involved.
With exception of the d-bag who took a picture of the poor guy I doubt anyone had the slightest thought process about the situation and wrote it off as background noise as previously stated.
every person that walked by either looked at the guy, hesitated or stopped and moved on
all conscious decisions to not act
Mother, while I agree with your selfishness bit, I think you're leaving out an important point...that individuals are satisfied by very different things, so while all being self-interest motivated, the desired individual effect is reached through very different actions. Thus people's careers of helping others; such as firefighters.
how hard is it to make a phone call? the number is really easy to remember, and i bet 99% of the population has a cell phone these days. unless they have an iPhone, there is no excuse for not reaching out.
"help" does not have to be rendering direct aid, or stepping in and putting ones self at risk.
and i understand the avoidance of the homeless/drunk stereotype, so most of those who walked by the guy are off the hook. but not all of them.
those type of people suck.
as far as the argument about vigilantism vs. law enforcement.....see the part about making a phone call.
@ Statler: firefighter are in it for the thrill, not the feel good....
Quote from: He Man on April 26, 2010, 12:19:56 PM
Your quoting me, so what is it your trying to say to me?
[snip]
The only thing i have to say is, bums dont normally collapse in the middle of the sidewalk. Thats about the only thing I can say that woudl throw a red flag for me. And even then id approach with caution. Id poke him iwth my foot and scream at him. Then call the cops, once they get the call, im bouncing.
I quoted you because I disagreed with your statement. Clear enough? Or is that reasoning too convoluted?
As to whether I'm a better person than you, again, let me make it clear: I don't know, and I don't give a rat's ass. I'm not living my life trying to compete with you or anyone else. I just do what I think is right.
I included the last part of your statement because I think that what you said there is the right thing to do, at the least. I personally might do more, but I don't think there's anything wrong with at least calling the cops, as you said you would.
Quote from: Statler on April 27, 2010, 05:42:45 AM
Mother, while I agree with your selfishness bit, I think you're leaving out an important point...that individuals are satisfied by very different things, so while all being self-interest motivated, the desired individual effect is reached through very different actions. Thus people's careers of helping others; such as firefighters.
No we agree completely, i just am not clear at times
I mentioned subjective desire
that is me saying folks are driven by different things
as to the fireman thing
that organization has a very good PR guy with the assistance of positive public opinion
the individuals are a completely different story
People walk by and choose not to help. On some level they are aware of their choice.
I have chosen to stop, check, and then call. It annoys the crap out of the Seattle FD.
A few years back a guy was laying just off the sidewalk, on the grass. He appeared to be sleeping. I drove by at least half a dozen times. I commented about him on every pass. One person drove by and then went to a fast food place and got him some food. Then they discovered he was dead.
I was driving past in an ALS ambulance. We might have been able to make a difference. Never know, because we did not stop.
There are safe ways to help. Calling 911 is easy, and you can hide 3 blocks away if is unsafe.
[thumbsup]
Quote from: Little Monkey Toes on April 28, 2010, 05:22:59 AM
There are safe ways to help. Calling 911 is easy, and you can hide 3 blocks away if is unsafe.
Thats about the best thing said all thread man. Well put. As long as you help its good enough.