Ducati Monster Forum

Here in NSW we have gone all sneaky, just like Queensland.

I have reliable information (that the cops dont want you to know) that the NSW Police (Highway Patrol) are using an unmarked work van that they park on the side of the road and take happy snaps and then you get your bluey in the mail.

As far as I know they are operating in the Wollongong, Macarthur, Southern Highlands area.




                                         Mmick

so that would be a 'bread' van then??  ;D

sorry not really a laughing matter!

lol all the places that we went through yesterday

They've been doing that sort of shit here in Mextoria for years!!  [leo] [roll]

From XR6 and Maloo ute cop cars to all sorts of camera cars/wagons/vans!!  [evil]

And guess what?? It hasnt done crap for the road toll or changed road user behaviour!! But it has raised a treasury load of revenue!  [roll] [leo]

just finished talking with a good friend  [leo]

he was saying NSW is going to be putting in place 8 to 10 vans by the end of the year...

 [bang] [bang] [bang]

Yup.  Soooo...if its parked nice and level (maybe on the nature strip), facing the same direction as the traffic and precisely parallel to the side of the road, if it has dark tinted windows and especially if it has a lone occupant in the passenger seat..... proceed with caution.

If you or I parked in some of these places we'd get a parking ticket, so how is it that the authorities can book you for an offence whilst committing one themselves? 

Its a typical big fat shitty case of "Do as I say, NOT do as I do!"  [roll]

Like not signalling, talking on mobiles, u-turns over unbroken lines, speeding etc, etc, blah, blah, blah.  ???   [leo]

Nah none of thats dangerous, its 3 kays over the limit thats the killer  [bang].  I really wouldnt mind the sneaky speed camera business if there was more of a balance... if Plod was also out there nicking Mrs Mummy, yacking on her mobile in her Kia Carnival whilst handing out chicken McEffingNuggetts to lil' Seek and Destroy down the back.......................... GGGRRRRR....  [bang] [bang]

Dont get me started.

lol....

 [laugh] Classic Cliche, so true! Love it.

Our local Speed Camera 4WD (They are currently using a Nissan Patrol) and the Grey Ghost (A Van)
Pull up and set up where ever they want, Bike lanes, No parking zones, Center traffic Islands (Nearly causing
accidents while they slow down on the highway to try and climb the curbing to park) Painted traffic Islands,
Truck stop lanes.
The last one is causing truckies massive headaches, My mum works for a National supermarket company and she
was talking to one of there Transport company drivers Recently (About 6 weeks ago) he pulled over in the Truckstop lane
to take a phonecall and take his legally required break, and was told to move his truck further up the road or he
would be booked. The Camera Van was parked at the end of and to the left of the lane. The truck blocked the Camera's view.
He was doing the legal thing, this was the only place for 10k's to pull up his B Double safely, make his call and have his
30 min break as required by law within the time frame required, he Apparently showed his Log book to the cop, but to no avail,
He was moved on...

Now you can not see this van until you are pulling into the lane as it it is just after a slight bend and there is a fruit and Veg
vendor van parked just before it, so it's not like the guy deliberately pulled in front of the cop to block him from taking photo's
he would have already slowing down long before the camera van would have been in sight.

So what was the poor prick supposed to do?
Stay put and follow the Log book rules: Risk Copping a fine!
Try to make the next stop within his limited time window to take his break: Rick copping a fine!

He moved on, and got the the next stop, but as anyone involved with the truck driving industry knows, the Log book rules are
strictly enforced and the penalties are severe for the drivers and the companies that employ them. So considering there is a cop station
pretty close to the next stop, he was a little concerned about going over his time window, but luckily for him there was no problem.

Traffic branch, the only time they are useful, is when they are being run over by Traffic!

The thing to do is complain long and loud to anyone who will listen! Cop top brass! Ministers, Opposition and in particular the media! Current affair shows are VERY useful!!  [evil] [thumbsup]

Phones take good pics now! [thumbsup]

Unfortunately "Orstraliens" are extremely good at having a grizzle but they wont put pen to paper and give the "whoevers" a big serve!  [evil]

You just gotta be as stubborn as they are ignorant and arrogant and stick it to 'em! Ok these pricks have a job to do but they only get away with these antics 'cos we let them!? >:(

Storm the Bastille!! Get the guillotine!!

As the late Don Chip said "Keep the bastards honest!"

Booked for what offence? Being legally parked??

I think they book you on something like "Interfering with a speed detection device" or some similar bullshit!!  [roll]

There was 2 things they mentioned apparently, 1 similar to what Dragonworld mentioned and another about
obstructing an officer from going about his normal duty or some other bullshit.

The Queensland Police Traffic branch is being trained to walk with a Goosestep, and they are soon to be fitted
with SS badges and will be instructed to say " Heil Anna" everytime a Superior officer walks past.

wow and here's me in little old SA worrying about the 'odd' (I mean odd as compared numerically to the occurrence of devices and vehicles in the other states) speed camera vehicle, and unmarked vehicle of the standard variety - mostly commodores or falcons!  We haven't gone to the extent of vans or anything else - yet.

although bike wise they are using unmarked BMW's, and now more recently a Harley has been seen....

Don't Worry Mr S2R, it will happen, they will see the massive amount of Money they can rake in from the Camera's
with minimal amount of effort and Expense and it will then start to roll out in South Australia.
All under the guise of Safety and "For our Protection"

I'm still waiting for someone in Victoria to take Vic Police/Victorian Government to court because the ADR's allow a
10% tolerance on vehicle instruments, but Vic Pol don't even allow 2 0r 3% when in comes to speeding.

So you could be sitting on 100k's, but your actually doing 103k's and you get pinged, how is that your fault?

yeah I know what you are saying there - I guess this is the benefit of the small but vocal population of SA - if the govt (as in state) introduced more cameras there would be a backlash, but there will be an increase of "police presence"

I too have wondered how Vic can maintain that sort of near impossible tolerance.  Ok the onus is on you to maintain your vehicle in roadworthy condition, but that would mean that every time you changed tyres you would have to get your speedo recalibrated - an expense not everyone would pay for - it is a ridiculous expectation!!

Here is one way the Vic authorities screw the populace!! And I HAVE seen this one with my own eyes!  [roll]

2 camera fines,

Fine No.1 was for 64 kph in a 60 zone, take off the generous 3 kph leeway and bingo! Pay up driver!! >:(

Fine No.2 was for 63kph in a 60 zone, safe you might think?? Then you'd be wrong! On this one they only took 2kph off which of course made it 61kph, and you guessed it, again "Pay Up Driver"!!  >:(  :o

I suggested this guy challenge this one in court but after weighing up the time off work for the hearing, the required legal representation etc, etc he just paid up without even a letter complaint!!  [roll]

It is interesting to theorise as to how many road users get screwed like this and just pay up?? Guvmint and Plods rely on public apathy and the "Cant fight City Hall" attitude, to just cough up the drachmas without contesting the infringement or complaining! [roll] :(

But with the amount of people getting F'd in the A in Victoria, Something has got to give eventually.
Some body will fight back and win. and then the floodgates will open.

Or if everyone took the fines to court, they would clog the system up for years.

This isnt really the issue.  What CairnsDuc is saying is that ADRs demand that the instrument you use to measure your vehicle's speed needs by law to be no more accurate out of the factory than +/- 5% (a 10% tolerance).  Yet VicPol dont allow the driver 5% over before you get a ticket in the mail.  So the entirely reasonable question is this:  How can you be expected to maintain your speed to an accuracy greater than that required of the speedometer?  

Catch22.  The speedo can be inaccurate but the driver cannot.  How does the driver know exactly how fast they're travelling? By looking at the speedo....  

You guys (in Victoria anyway) may not have noticed, but cops have not maned (personed?) camera cars for a decade or more...

Labor governments have made a big and even bigger business out of this baby (cash cow tax grab) and there weren't enough coppers to go around so they use contractors on way less $$$ to person the cars and further increase proffits!!!

Ita

See now you are just being silly ... you are not expected to 'maintain your speed' ... you are simply not allowed to 'exceed' the limit. If your equipment is not up to the task then you need to make allowance for that ... ie. drive 5% below the speed limit.






 [roll] [roll] [roll]

I agree with you Betty - whilst we could argue tolerances etc at the end of the day the Police are betting on human nature.  The Police are going on very good probability that people will not pay precise attention to their speedo, especially in more modern vehicles as there is an expectation that speedos are accurate, therefore be over the limit.  They (the Police) are simply trying to force people to drive slower in the expectation of less risk of accidents, as opposed to teaching people actual car control.......

And there is the Rub, how would I know that my Speedo is wrong/inaccurate?
This is the problem with the system in Victoria, and it still amazes me that people keep putting up with it!
I frequent a number of Forums, and the complaints/Topics/Posts about the system in Victoria
keeps rising everyday, but I wonder how long before the general public will stand up and say enough is
enough, I'll be driving through Victoria in about 10 weeks time, and I am dreading the 284 Klm's from the
NSW Border to the Spirit of Tasmania Ferry. I will be watching my Speedo and GPS/Nav speed like a hawk.

I have figured the only way to be safe (From the Cash Grab) in Victoria....
- Subscribe to Speed Camera service on TomTom GPS (This does not help with the mobile Cameras, but every
bit of extra information helps avoid a happy snap  ;D )
- Watch your Speedo like a hawk.
- If the speed changes down, be at that lower speed before reaching the speed zone sign.
- If the speed goes up, do not dare speed up before reaching the speed zone sign.
- Set the Cruise control below the posted speed limit by about 3 to 4 k's
- Don't forget to Smile for the Camera (Have best Leather Gimp suit on for the Occasion)
- Keep Lube/Condom in the Glovebox just in case I commit the horrendous crime of being over the limit by 1 or 2 K's  [roll]

I do feel that the only person perfect enough to fall within the margin of error consistently would be GOD.

For the rest of us.....Cha Ching.

No doubt this argument will go on and on and on and on  [bang]
.....but teaching "stupid people" to drive would be most awesome!

I have a problem with a "Private" (Read, profit based company) running the speed cameras!! Their profits are based on their performance......arnt they?? Things that make you go hmmmm? [roll]




If I get a piccie, I....
1.wait the 28 days and then ask for an extension....usually another 28 days.
2. Then I choose to take it to court.
3. The the Camera Orifice has to cancel the Infringement Notice and notify me of said act.
4. Then they have to set up a court date and get all the ducmentation together.(eg. Sworn affadavit from camera operator including their qualifications, documented proof of camera calibration, infringement details, a FREE picture (Heh, saves me paying for it. [thumbsup]) Notification of the court date and all the other legal bullshit required for me, the criminal!!
5. Then on the morning of the court date (Usually around 12 months) I'll ring the Clerk of Courts and say I wont be attending, make my apologies to the Beak etc. Give the usual reasons of loss of wages etc. This wastes a Camera operators time, a Police Prosecutor and of course the Court has a wasted spot in that days proceedings!
And usually I have only been stung an extra $10 or so on top of the original fine!

The extra Pesos is a cheap way of making sure the pricks have to earn the money they have extorted from me.  [evil]
And the last 4 infringements I have had have all been around 5-6kph over the limit detected speed! Poofdahs!  [thumbsup]

Civil disobedience?? Nup, definitely not!! Just playing their own system!! Now if everybody did this everything would just grind to a halt!!



And Ita, you would remember Atwood?? the Vic Pol rider training area?? If I remeber correctly Phil (Who loved a beer!! :o) and Karl were in attendance  [thumbsup].
 I did a course up their when I was with Vic Roads and the senior Police instructor told us that the safest place for a motorcycle to be is in FRONT of the traffic, NOT in it!
And he did admit that as motorcyclists we have to "Play The Game" of russian roulette in regards to our real world "motorcyclist safety strategy" and the Camera enforcement policy.
[/quote]

We noticed.  Doesnt matter if its a Sworn Member operating the camera device or not - the result is the same.  My gripe is not with the operation of the equipment but with the narrow emphasis on speed enforcement as the... solution.  Even VicPol's top Traffic Cop, Deputy Commissioner Ken found himself running foul of a (civilian operated) speed camera.  Here's a man with a long record of safe driving, free of any traffic violations, a man in the public eye who would presumably be very aware of the embarrassment of being caught speeding.... Who would no doubt take every precaution to ensure he wasnt snared..... and yet even with the best intentions, even with a driving record which indicates no propensity for speeding he still, as will we all sooner or later, gets ticketed.  This doesnt contribute to road safety in any way.  It merely makes good, safe drivers cynical.  But for government, its the perfect solution to the road "toll" problem - blame every fatality and serious injury on speed and rake in the cash for every inadvertent minor infringement.  Whereas, to put coppers in cars out on the road nabbing bad or inattentive or aggressive drivers - who may or may not be speeding would cost money.  But I include VicPol in my criticsism of the government's nice-little-earner-road-safety-fiction for the enthusiastic promotion of it by senior police at every opportunity.  

That's why I will watch with much interest the next few years, with the amount of regular drivers being caught up and pinged for silly piddly amounts over the limit.
It is well known that people (Like professional drivers) have lost there jobs due to excess points for tiny amounts over the limit. How is that saving lives?
how is that not a gross misuse of power?
I will watch this one closely, I think eventually this will get to a tipping point, eventually people will say enough is enough, We are tired of being ripped off and
treated like children in the Nanny state/Nation.
Particularly now that at least once or twice a year I expect I will have to come across the Water from Tasmania to Melbourne for various reasons.

I wonder if speeding fines will carry across the water to find me in Tasmania?  :P

Public Up-rising! ... you know you want one, you know we need one.

But as has been said most people couldn't be bothered ... it is far easier to just pay the fine (knowing they have done worse) and then complain about it at every opportunity.

Something in the order of that recent-ish protest in (I think it was) France would be a nice start.

I think you're worrying a little too much, just be.... observant and you'll be alright. 

Maybe we all do substantially less than the speed limit for a while.  After all, slower is of course safer. [roll]  The ensuing traffic chaos would certainly bring our displeasure to the attention of the authorities and I'm sure that the accident rate would actually rise.

Good Theory Ducmeister, They tried that in the UK, didn't work, because the vast majority were being pinged for only silly amounts over the limits.
consequently the General Public started taking matters into there own hands.
http://www.speedcam.co.uk/gatso2.htm (http://www.speedcam.co.uk/gatso2.htm)
Like the ones shown on the above listed Site.

Not that I am saying people should take the law into there owns hands, Just providing the link for Reference purposes...Just Sayin  ;)

That's why in NSW they have cameras watching the cameras.

I wonder if they keep these 'camera cars' away from certain socio-economic areas due to fear of fire-bombing (whilst the operators are inside)?

They do that in the UK also, doesn't work, one guy carries the Tyre, another the petrol in a Bag or Softdrink Bottle

Put on your Balaclava, Throw, Splash, light and run.......

Over and done in about 20 seconds, for them, but when the Tyre catches, well the damage is done.  ;D

Or the Paint Spray can on an Extension arm for the Gantry Camera's.


Not that I would suggest anyone do this of course, that would be very Irresponsible and Illegal.   :P

Have you noticed alot of the NSW cams have a little spy cam watching the main cam for people doing exactly the above.

Rob [bacon]

Heh, spray/disable the spy cam first??  [evil]

Hypothetically speaking of course!!  [roll] [thumbsup] [cheeky]

Write a letter to every labor MP telling them how make the beast with two backsed this is and explain why it should return to the 10% + 3kph that it was untill they got their greedy cash grabbing hands onto it... :(

Ita

But People have been writing Letters Ita, From the General Public to Motoring/Motorcycling groups and and has it made any difference?
No, they just rolled out more of the bloody Cameras and trotted out the same tired rhetoric that is was to save lives, we are all speeders
and that we should all think of the Children.

Now, getting back to Naughty people damaging the Cameras.  [cheeky]

Civil Disobedience has worked quite well in the UK, quite a number of Cameras have been removed due to the Constant destruction
of the Cameras. I have a friend who lives in the UK, and where he is located they went from 2 Cameras to nearly 30 in about 6 months.
A lot of the general public got pinged on Roads that had been the same speed limits for years, Camera went in, speed limit dropped
at the same time and people got caught.
So the Public retaliated, Cameras were Burnt, Cameras were knocked down and run into. Now they only have about 4 Cameras left
in the area that still work (And he suspects they won't last much longer)
at 10's of Thousands of Pounds or more to replace when they get damaged or destroyed, The Councils ran out of money to replace them
and when they got knocked down or burnt, they stayed down.

And apparently it's not unusual to hear of the Safety Team Camera vans being attacked and being vandalized even with the Operator
still sitting in the van.

BTW, this is more of what the "Safety Nazis" are doing here in Vic.  >:( [evil] [roll]


http://forums.justcommodores.com.au/pub/101772-melbournes-new-super-speed-cameras-locations.html (http://forums.justcommodores.com.au/pub/101772-melbournes-new-super-speed-cameras-locations.html)

Caught a bit on the news today the Vic gov have got Webber back on side after he called Vic the nanny state [laugh], after Hamilton got done for doing burnouts. [laugh]
Can't find the story, but some good reading in the google link.

http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&cr=countryAU&q=mark+webber+nanny+state&start=0&sa=N (http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&cr=countryAU&q=mark+webber+nanny+state&start=0&sa=N)

But Webber was right, Victoria is becoming the Nanny State, With Queensland ramming it's nose right up Victoria's arse getting high
off the fumes and copying everything it does because it wants to be one of the Kewl kids too.

And if Webber backs down from his comments, then he's a tool.

Screw it! let's call it like it is, we are becoming the Nanny Nation.

I have to be careful what I say last time I spoke what I thought about Coppers   [bow_down] [beer][leo] [leo] [leo] [leo]I got into Troble form Moderators !!!!!!

What Makes me laugh is the quote" there is no such thing as safe speeding " Ask a copper when they have sped to pull you over about that and they say but I have done a course so there is such a thing as safe speeding then ????????


What happened In the NT when they put a speed limit on the Unrestrected roads the road toll went up .

Senior Constable Trevor Bergman, I wish you success  [clap]  >>  http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/motorists-speeding-fines-could-be-overturned-as-cop-takes-on-cameras/story-e6frf7jo-1225866984157 (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/motorists-speeding-fines-could-be-overturned-as-cop-takes-on-cameras/story-e6frf7jo-1225866984157)

And he is 100% correct, how can you be expected to be within the 5% tolerance expected by the Victorian state government,
when the ADR's allow up to a 10% error in the Speedo of your car.

I know that for me to be doing 100KPH on my Nav systems I have to be doing about 109 on the car's speedo, and I have
run both our GPS unit's at the same time to confirm that one was not be generous or lagging behind, they both said the
same speed Spot on 100KPH, set the cruise control, then check the speedo of the car (An 09 Hyundai Getz) sure enough 109
on the speedo.
Took the Wife's 07 Corolla out, both Nav's set up again, straight bit of road, bring the car up to 100KPH on the Nav's set the cruise
Speedo says 106.

I know the Bosses Mercedes is the other way, his speedo says he's doing 93 when the GPS says he doing 100, he also tried another
GPS to ensure it wasn't his GPS lying to him, same result.

I will give Qld that, at least if you anything up to 10k's over (Unless the cop is having a bad day) they will generally give you the
"Slow Down" wave or the highway patrol will flash the lights at you, give you the "Slow down" and let you go on your merry way.
And more often than not the Speed Camera's are also set to about a 10% tolerance as well.

They haven't gotten as Anal as Victoria yet. So I will watch this case with much interest.  [thumbsup]

Yes , very interested in this one!!  ???

Although, as has happened many times in the past, unless the media keep on it, the Guvmint/Plods will "bury" it! Never again to see the light of day. [roll]

Because if the public at large get hold of it the enforcemment agencies are screwed for the lying, kniving revenue raising slimeballs that they are! [roll] :o

Bring it on!! Go TREV. I'd chuck some money at him for a fighting fund! [thumbsup]

How old is that Merc?

ADR18/02 allowed +-10%, but it was superceeded in July 2006 by ADR18/03 which doesn't allow the speedo to under-read at all, but allows it to over-read by 10% + 4kmh, so a pre-06 vehicle can read anywhere from 90 to 110kmh when doing a real speed of 100kmh, but a newer vehicles speedo must read no less than 100 and up to 114kmh when doing 100kmh.

But just because it's _legal_ for your vehicle to have an under-reading speedo, that's not in itself a sufficient defence for a speeding fine... You'd need to prove that your speedo _does_ under-read by enough to have made you think you were travelling under the speed limit, and that you had a reasonable expectation before the offence that the speedo was accurate.

There's a pretty good (if somewhat long) article about speedos and traffic law here:
http://www.trafficlaw.com.au/speedos.html (http://www.trafficlaw.com.au/speedos.html)
It's somewhat oriented towards Victorian state law, but it's a good read about the possible defences in court and their likelyhood of success...

big

It's an 04 model (C Class I think)

Got a little letter in the mail today, telling me I owe the authorities $146 for doing 102 kph in a 100 zone!  >:(

Time to make the poooofdahs earn their $$$  [evil] [evil] [evil]

I'd call them c#%*s!! But those things are useful?? More like limp pricks, no use to any c#%*!!  :P ???

What the ?    ??? Has the world gone mad ?   ???

What a load of guano !!! >:(

Yep Kaz! 'Tis the world as we know it nowadays!!  : [roll] [roll]

Detected speed was an incredibly dangerous 105kph less our generous 3kph leeway equates to that terrible, antisocial 102kph in the 100kph zone!

Lordy, :Lordy, I am such a miscreant!! [evil]

And they don't even know you as well as we do!

Yes so dragon was in his best behavour then, hey and he still got done. As Big T would say that it is just WRONG

Mate that is make the beast with two backsin' soft...  :o   Last ticket I got on the bike was for 30 over and I was walking for a month!!!!   :'(

Ita

The thing is Ita me old mate, it twerent on the Duc it was in the Rodeo!!  ;D

If I was on the bike they wouldna got me! I'd a been a blur in their poxy little piccie!! [evil] ;D [thumbsup] [cheeky]. PHUGM!

Giddy up!! Good stuff mate... [beer]  Now that's another issue...  Car and bike licences should be separate...

Ita

How that can be said to be anything other than blatant revenue raising is beyond me.

Did you get pinged by a fixed Camera or a Mobile unit?

Yep thats just the thing!? Its a fixed overhead gantry!! ???

I know the bloody thing is there and I dont speed under it!  [leo]

But when questioned of course the Plods just wheel out the old "They are checked regularly and are indisputably accurate!" And then I have to spend big bucks to defend against a $146 infringement?? Not really a financially viable proposition!

You reckon they play on that?? Surely not!! [roll] :o [evil]

Deja vu, but just send them a letter. Tell them they are a bunch of ....oh sorry, hold that thought.  [bang]

I don't know what is it with you bloody hoons and your careless behaviour on public roads.

Don't you know it is infinitely safer to suddenly and agressively slam on your brakes just before the gantry taking your speed from 105 to 85 in the blink of an eye.

I'm starting to think you just don't understand the road safety message [cheeky]

Yes Betty, I stand before the members of this esteemed site populated by Pillars of social conscience, virtue and public good!! [roll]

With my head bowed in silent chagrin and shame that I should even dare to insinuate that the Plods and Guvmint wouldn't have my best interests foremost in mind when formulating these fair and reasonable Road User Attitudinal Alteration Strategies! :P

How dare I insinuate that the strategies are aimed at relieving the general public at large of their hard earned Drachmas and less to do with raising funds for the public coffers that we see naff all of!

After all, arnt these strategies lowering the road toll everywhere??.............Well, arnt they?? [cheeky]

Eloquently put Dragon.   [bow_down]

But you're preaching to the converted  [moto].  Is there no action we can take against this stupidity?? I can't bring myself to conform but you can't win against the bastids either.  [bang]

And I'm loathe to say anything about the lack of revenue I have donated to official retirement funds lately during my 9000km junket.  Especially now I have a legal number plate that will stand out like you-know-what's in a photo.  :'(

But then I do ride like a girl  [roll]

We now have 3 Speed Cameras
2 new Highway Patrol cars (Not counting the 2 already up here)
and more Speed Guns then ever before.

And yet our Road toll before Xmas was the highest ever recorded, and yet still people
swallow the "Speed Kills" bullshit hook line and sinker everytime.

there was a crash a few months out from Xmas, A family friends Sister and brother in law
and there Child, Killed because a Drunk driver decided to over take in Fog coming in the
other direction and pulled out in front of them, instantly killed.

And yet, the police blamed Speed......  :o
1. The Guy was drunk out of his brain
2. He pulled out over double lines
3. 2 cars doing 100k's hit each other head on

And the local Traffic plods blamed Speed as the factor that killed them?!?!?
It wasn't until days later that it came out he had crossed double lines and he was drunk out of his brain.
The Driver he went around was doing 80k's in the clearing Fog came forward with the complete story
about the guy's reckless driving at which point the Police admitted he was also well over the Blood Alcohol limit.

And yet to this day, the Police still put this accident down to Speed  :o :o :o :o :o
HOW THE make the beast with two backs DOES THAT WORK?

Its very easy to blame speed!! Duh!! Sharp as bowling balls these investigators!? Of course they were speeding, they were moving werent they?? Therefore they were at speed?? Yes? [roll]

Investigating properly and thoroughly and looking and reporting  ALL factors and not just the politically preferable elements that fit nicely into the authorities' agenda wheelbarrow is what SHOULD be happening!  [roll]

The ballot box is one way to go.
At the end of the day we vote.
But unfortunately we don't all stick together.
And the guvmn't here listen to the likes of the road safety council aka HAROLD SCRUBY bleating  on  [puke]
Need to send letters to your local member etc.
 A good case for example is the shooters party in NSW.
They put some people up and got elected.
The shooters party now have two members in the NSW Parliament.
Now i don't want to start a debate on the values of owning a nice big gun. ;D
But goes to show people power works. [thumbsup]
And the shooting fraternity stick together
 There must be more Bike riders and other car enthusiasts out there than gun owners, to get some voted in, to fight these bastards and there draconian laws.


We need a party name and a leader

I will give Betty my vote for leader  [bow_down]

Just what I was thinking but you beat me to it.


That's too hard, they don't have the resources and it would drain tax payer inputs into pollies fat super policies.

Article in the Herald Sun today re: Bob Jane setting up courses at Calder raceway for 'hoons' to show them the dangers of their behaviour on the streets and letting them get it out of their system at the track instead with legal off-street drag racing.  I would like to see a scheme introduced where you have a choice - pay a fine or pay to attend this course. Bet I couldn't get a pollie to support  education over revenue raising though.

Rob - all the pollies are the same doesn't matter who you vote for, they all want us to pay for their slice of pie.

There is, and has been, riders' advocates on all these road safety boards for years but, as a minority, we seem to get ignored more and more.

 [bow_down] Betty gets my vote too.   [thumbsup]

Advocates aren't enough. :'(
We we need a dedicated party
How this for a name.
Fair go for road users party.
I recon it would get votes, especially if we got Betty as leader.
in NSW  [bow_down] [bow_down]

You guys will have to find your on leader down there [laugh]

Years ago (geeze Mick your an old bastid) when I was in MRA NSW (real old) we used our own forms at accidents which at the time was more comprehensive than what the cops used and we found in most cases 'other' factors than speed.


Even today when I'm wearing my RFS cap, I watch how the Traffic Accident squad go about there bussiness, they take lots of pictures and paint lots of yellow lines on the road, and yet the result nearly always seems the same - speed. Me, I've got my own theory, mobile phones. Now there is a subject on its own.




                        Mmick

I hear ya Mick!! Being a Bona Fide "old bastard" meself I can remember these "private" traffic conflict reports! And the difference between unbiased and politically oriented crash reporting!  :(

I remember reading a while ago from one of the Guys on Netrider (I think) he was involved in one of the discussion groups
for some road safety committee for Vic Roads and the TAC, they were discussing various items and assorted bits and pieces,
then one thing about crashes really caused him to sit up and take notice, A senior traffic Cop mentioned when determining the
reason for an accident, they were instructed if no clear reason for an accident could be determined, it was marked as a speed
related incident.
Also if someone had a crash, say on a wet road, you were doing 60 in an 80 zone and had a bingle, it would be a marked as
a speed related incident (To fast for the conditions)

He started to bring up a number of different scenarios:
Oil slick on road + Bike has crash because of Oil = Speed related crash (To fast for the conditions)
Car pulls out in front of you + Hit car and crash = Speed related crash (To fast to take avoiding actions)

He rattled off a staggering amount of scenarios to this Cop and just about every time they could twist it into a Speed related
accident, He said this was pushed from the very top levels of the Police and Vic roads/Government. and was to assist
with the role of Speed related enforcement. Revenue raising.

So you can see why I get on my Soap box every time the issue of Speeding gets raised, there is just so much lies and bullshit out there
it is incredible.
And Quite frankly why I don't vote, I don't want to be seen supporting any of the Wankers in power or trying to get into power.
Because the are all Thieves and Liars. Favorite Quote from the Movie Hunt for Red October from a Politician
"When I'm not kissing Babies, I'm stealing there Lollipops!" Never a truer word spoken!

I don't know if that is true ... I think the 'serious' accidents are investigated pretty thoroughly - its just how it is reported that's the problem.

Heather, you may recall a little incident on the F3 not too long ago (well perhaps your clutch arm wants you to forget) ... most of the initial delay was related to 'crash investigation' so I think we can't dismiss the job that they do. My understanding was the cause of the accident was 'speed differential' ... in other words somebody was going TOO SLOW in comparison to the other traffic.

No prizes for guessing that it was reported as a 'SPEED RELATED ACCIDENT'. The fact that it caused many hours of delays (some people taking 8-9 hours to get home from work) only made it easier to push the 'road safety message' ... even though the delays were mostly caused by bureaucratic cock-ups which resulted in some heads rolling.

But the over-riding message ... SPEED KILLS.

Anybody with any amount of logic knows that is what happens ... if speed is mentioned anywhere on a crash investigation report, i will be listed as a cause ... or the cause.

The problem is you need hard evidence that this is what is happening ... so you need people like the guy mentioned (but more than one) to turn 'whistleblower' and have enough public support to cause an uprising. I honestly believe for something to happen there needs to be some kind of sustained public protest on a massive, massive scale.

But the problem is that the Australian public are far too tolerant, too lazy and concede when boredom sets in ... but we are all happy if somebody else does it for us.

Plus anybody that leads this type of thing becomes a political animal themselves and they start to push there own agenda, the real issues get lost and the confused movement becomes easy prey for our political 'representatives'.

See, not a cynical bone in my body.

Agree totally with ya Betty.  That's why we are voting for you.  All the points you make are exactly what I'm thinking - creepy.

Oh and I was being sarcastic with my "Too hard, no resources comment".