Ducati Monster Forum

Kitchen Sink => No Moto Content => Topic started by: orangelion03 on May 13, 2010, 11:26:38 AM

Title: Clever Safety Device-Amazing!
Post by: orangelion03 on May 13, 2010, 11:26:38 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=E3mzhvMgrLE&NR=1# (http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=E3mzhvMgrLE&NR=1#)
Title: Re: Clever Safety Device-Amazing!
Post by: Oldfisti on May 13, 2010, 11:35:00 AM
That's a lot of faith in your invention to be willing to test it like that!


Dunno if I would have the beans to do it.


[thumbsup]
Title: Re: Clever Safety Device-Amazing!
Post by: Grampa on May 13, 2010, 11:35:51 AM
I'm Lorena Bobbit and I do not approve this message
Title: Re: Clever Safety Device-Amazing!
Post by: Oldfisti on May 13, 2010, 11:38:10 AM
Quote from: bobspapa on May 13, 2010, 11:35:51 AM
I'm Lorena Bobbit and I do not approve this message


[laugh]


I'm John Wayne Bobbit and I do!
Title: Re: Clever Safety Device-Amazing!
Post by: Monster Dave on May 13, 2010, 11:56:58 AM
1) Super cool safety feature
2) You guys are hysterical!  [laugh]
Title: Re: Clever Safety Device-Amazing!
Post by: SacDuc on May 13, 2010, 01:15:38 PM


This has been on the market for well over 10 years. About 7 years ago a shop I worked for installed one. Right after a guy shoved his hand wrist deep into an 18" table saw blade.

sac
Title: Re: Clever Safety Device-Amazing!
Post by: orangelion03 on May 13, 2010, 01:18:31 PM
Quote from: SacDuc on May 13, 2010, 01:15:38 PM

Right after a guy shoved his hand wrist deep into an 18" table saw blade.

sac

Oh sorry...I fainted...
Title: Re: Clever Safety Device-Amazing!
Post by: He Man on May 13, 2010, 01:24:03 PM
How often do people accidently slice of their fingers on this thing? Ive used a table saw, chop saw, miter saw, for atleast 6 years never have i ever come close to slicing my finger off.
Title: Re: Clever Safety Device-Amazing!
Post by: SacDuc on May 13, 2010, 01:35:25 PM
Quote from: He Man on May 13, 2010, 01:24:03 PM
How often do people accidently slice of their fingers on this thing? Ive used a table saw, chop saw, miter saw, for atleast 6 years never have i ever come close to slicing my finger off.


Home use or professionally?

sac


/what's the difference between a chop saw and a miter saw anyway?

Title: Re: Clever Safety Device-Amazing!
Post by: acalles on May 13, 2010, 02:22:21 PM
Quote from: He Man on May 13, 2010, 01:24:03 PM
How often do people accidently slice of their fingers on this thing? Ive used a table saw, chop saw, miter saw, for atleast 6 years never have i ever come close to slicing my finger off.

Quote
In 2003 the Consumer Product Safety Commission estimated that  “93,880 saw-related injuries were treated in U.S. hospital emergency rooms”. Of these 52,000 (55%) involved stationary saws (table saw 38,000 (73%), miter saw 7,640 (15%), band saw 4060 (8%), and radial arm saw 2,300 (4%). (Data summarized from: Injuries Associated with Stationary Power Saws, May 2003, Propit Adler, Directorate for Epidemiology, Division of Hazard Analysis, U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission)

often enough for a brilliant inventor to created a product to satisfy a need.

I think that thing is pretty damn cool.  [thumbsup]
Title: Re: Clever Safety Device-Amazing!
Post by: He Man on May 13, 2010, 04:33:25 PM
Quote from: SacDuc on May 13, 2010, 01:35:25 PM

Home use or professionally?

sac


/what's the difference between a chop saw and a miter saw anyway?



Does it matter? If your choping your finger off, your choping your finger off. If your a pro and you do it, you shouldda known better. If your a homeuser and you know what your doing, you shouldda known better. If you have no buisness around a screwdriver, well. YOU STILL SHOULD OF KNOWN BETTER!!! i just dont see how it could happen if you use the proper technique but freak accidents do happen. THing looks way to sensitive. What if my wood is a bit moist? or if by accident, your cutting an old piece of wood, and it has some iron filings on it from the drill head that skipped a few times when you were nailing it to another piece.etc. Your going to blow up your table saw over that?

Awesome, but needs some more thought to it.

Chop saw only goes up and down and has a clamp and is built to resist sparks n shit.
Mitersaw has a swivel head is usually not shielded for sparks...n shit.
Sawzall is what you use when you dont give a shit and it needs to cut right hte make the beast with two backs now..  :P

edit: read the faq on their website.

apprently a nail has to be big enough to cause it to trip. it may or may not activate the system.
the system has a bypass switch
if the wood is wet enough to cause a mist spray durring cut it will activate.

pretty cool. If the saw isnt that much more than a regular table saw. it would be a nice feature to have. but id be pretty pissed of it the damn thing went off for no reason. and it would take one freaky accident for me to cut my finger off on a table saw.....its not like the saw is moving, your moving your hand into the blade... Id have to carry a spare device on the job....hopefully it wont ever activiate for no reason when your using an expensive cutting disc!
Title: Re: Clever Safety Device-Amazing!
Post by: DoubleEagle on May 13, 2010, 04:46:41 PM
Pretty amazing .......but I would like to see which one of those guys would lay his dick on the line to prove it's efficiency  :o

Dolph      :)
Title: Re: Clever Safety Device-Amazing!
Post by: rgramjet on May 13, 2010, 05:18:17 PM
Its a great concept!  Expensive!

Wet wood and my $15k Altendorf dont play together.  Moisture meter and metal detector are your friends.
Title: Re: Clever Safety Device-Amazing!
Post by: hihhs on May 13, 2010, 05:42:14 PM
I'm in construction and saw a very smart, very talented carpenter with about 20 years experience take three fingers off at the second knuckle with a table saw. He was doing something very repetitive and became distracted. Freakin' horrible. Obviously his fault but these things do happen, even to the pros.
Many people in the industry expect OSHA to require saws with auto-stop features like this one on job-sites by 2012. 
If OSHA does push this through the guys that made that thing are gonna get seriously rich.

Side note- according to an article I read recently the two most dangerous tools statistically are the razor knife and the ladder. Go figure.
Title: Re: Clever Safety Device-Amazing!
Post by: mitt on May 13, 2010, 05:42:43 PM
That is pretty awesome.  I wonder how it can tell the resistance change when you are wearing good rubber shoes?  You need a path to ground somehow.  Is there a ground tether you wear while using the saw?


mitt
Title: Re: Clever Safety Device-Amazing!
Post by: mitt on May 13, 2010, 05:44:24 PM
Quote from: hihhs on May 13, 2010, 05:42:14 PM

Side note- according to an article I read recently the two most dangerous tools statistically are the razor knife and the ladder. Go figure.

I believe that.  We can't use locking utility knifes anymore at work, they have to be self retracting.  The self retracting are far more dangerous in my opinion because they make the cutting work so much harder to do.

mitt
Title: Re: Clever Safety Device-Amazing!
Post by: DesmoDiva on May 13, 2010, 05:49:42 PM
There are two of those in the wood shop at school.

The stopping devices have had to be replaced a couple times.  ie. saved a couple of over tired, architecture students fingers.

Once it tripped for a nail in a piece of scrap.

IIRC, it is a few hundred dollars to replace the brake.  Not cheap, but cheaper than a lawsuit or losing a finger.

Mitt, there is no ground tether.
Title: Re: Clever Safety Device-Amazing!
Post by: mitt on May 13, 2010, 05:54:25 PM
Quote from: DesmoDiva on May 13, 2010, 05:49:42 PM

Mitt, there is no ground tether.

Hmm, I will have to do some research to know how it can sense a change in resistance between wood and a well isolated mammal wearing boot quality work boots. 

mitt
Title: Re: Clever Safety Device-Amazing!
Post by: DesmoDiva on May 13, 2010, 05:57:42 PM
It was explained to me that it detects an electromagnetic change in material, not necessarily resistance.
Title: Re: Clever Safety Device-Amazing!
Post by: Buckethead on May 13, 2010, 06:17:51 PM
Quote from: mitt on May 13, 2010, 05:54:25 PM
Hmm, I will have to do some research to know how it can sense a change in resistance between wood and a well isolated mammal wearing boot quality work boots. 

mitt

Humans make good capacitors.  [thumbsup]
Title: Re: Clever Safety Device-Amazing!
Post by: mitt on May 13, 2010, 06:18:23 PM
I did a little reading on their website, and I think I understand what is happening.  It uses the body's natural capacitance to create a dip in a weak voltage that is applied to the blade and sampled at a high frequency.

Not the body's resistance that would cause a current leak like I originally thought.  That would take too high a voltage to drive the leak and could be over ridden by someone wearing electrical safety shoes.

I am still very impressed at the system from both a mechanical and electronic standpoint.

mitt
Title: Re: Clever Safety Device-Amazing!
Post by: Buckethead on May 13, 2010, 06:19:33 PM
Haha!

32 seconds.
Title: Re: Clever Safety Device-Amazing!
Post by: mitt on May 13, 2010, 06:23:52 PM
Quote from: Obsessed? on May 13, 2010, 06:19:33 PM
Haha!

32 seconds.

even less, because by the time I had typed and hit post, I got a warning, someone else had posted message, so really more like 20  ;D


mitt
Title: Re: Clever Safety Device-Amazing!
Post by: brimo on May 13, 2010, 07:14:59 PM
Capacitive switch.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touch_switch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touch_switch)
Title: Re: Clever Safety Device-Amazing!
Post by: He Man on May 13, 2010, 07:37:18 PM
assume you had a hammer that mimic the properties of human flesh so that this device triggers.

also assume the device is reloadable instantly.

Inamgine playing wackamole with this thing.
Title: Re: Clever Safety Device-Amazing!
Post by: Speeddog on May 13, 2010, 08:28:24 PM
Quote from: DesmoDiva on May 13, 2010, 05:49:42 PM
~SNIP~

IIRC, it is a few hundred dollars to replace the brake.  Not cheap, but cheaper than a lawsuit or losing a finger.

~SNIP~

I spent ~$400 at an Urgent Care to get 4 stitches on a lacerated knuckle.
(Work on motorcycles for a living and I get wounded washing a glass  [roll])
I don't think you can get to a bed in an ER for a few hundred, let alone get any treatment.

I'm pretty sure that fingers that are cut off with a rotary saw aren't easily reattached.
Perhaps someone here knows...
Title: Re: Clever Safety Device-Amazing!
Post by: hihhs on May 14, 2010, 06:19:19 AM
Quote from: Speeddog on May 13, 2010, 08:28:24 PM
~SNIP~
I'm pretty sure that fingers that are cut off with a rotary saw aren't easily reattached.
Perhaps someone here knows...
~SNIP~

The guy that was injured on my job-site(previous post) had one of three fingers successfully reattached & has very limited use of the of "saved" finger. Not to get too graphic but the saw blade destroyed the fingers. It was not a "clean cut".

Title: Re: Clever Safety Device-Amazing!
Post by: erkishhorde on May 14, 2010, 07:39:44 AM
I taught the shop class for the first year college of Architecture students for a few quarters while doing my master's classes. Got to talk with the shop manager a lot. I'll echo DD on saying that it's a few hundred dollars and not $60 like what the video says. It works great though. It often gets set off by soggy wood and nails and pisses the hell out of the shop manager. I think it's only actually been set off by a finger like twice in the last 5 years. But if you think about it, it's like insurance. You pay for the false alarms all the time like paying a premium for insurance and then when the real deal comes you don't get your ass sued off by some angry parents.

Even though these kids are taught the right way to use the equipment, most of them are still afraid of it and will do stupid shit. And as said before, even a pro gets a little careless when doing repetitive work.
Title: Re: Clever Safety Device-Amazing!
Post by: Speeddog on May 14, 2010, 07:50:27 AM
That was what I recalled from a real ER TV episode.

They showed the X-rays of some fingers that got Skilsawed.  :'(
Title: Re: Clever Safety Device-Amazing!
Post by: Grampa on May 14, 2010, 07:53:16 AM
fyi.... a severed finger will get ya like a grand from AFLAC  ;D


thats like a free Termi slip on system
Title: Re: Clever Safety Device-Amazing!
Post by: Oldfisti on May 14, 2010, 07:52:00 PM
A severed foot is the ultimate stocking stuffer.


:D
Title: Re: Clever Safety Device-Amazing!
Post by: Jobu on May 15, 2010, 07:12:18 PM
Quote from: SacDuc on May 13, 2010, 01:35:25 PM

Home use or professionally?

sac


/what's the difference between a chop saw and a miter saw anyway?





Quote from: He Man on May 13, 2010, 04:33:25 PM
Does it matter?

From a pure statistical standpoint, it matters a lot.  Recreational users, by man hours, will make up a very small percentage of table saw usage.  Therefore, even if they are 50% more likely to make a mistake (which probably isn't true because they are probably more careful, respect the saw more, and don't use it for an extended period of time such as a professional would who is ripping 2x4's, etc.), the professionals are still going to have by far, more accidents.

Plus, most the time a recreational user is doing it as hobby and is, therefore, having fun and not distracted, whereas a professional may be having a bad day, running on little sleep, or distracted by a retarded laborer. 
Title: Re: Clever Safety Device-Amazing!
Post by: He Man on May 15, 2010, 07:50:50 PM
A parent would sue the school cuase a kid cut his finger off with a table saw?
sorry, that shouldnt even be allowed!!!!

Perhaps your right Jobu.

Statistically it would matter, but you should always be paying attention when operting something like that. better said then done i guess!!