Title: SS rebuild Post by: Monsterlover on June 01, 2010, 04:16:06 PM Rebuilding the track bike.
Thought I'd put up some pics of the process. I was in the middle of an engine swap and TJR178 got me to go in on some powder coating. So I caved and did it. I had 3/4 of the bike apart anyway so I pulled the rest of it apart and sent everything out for color. I got everything back today and got started. My garage looks like a Ducati bomb went off in it. I hope to have it running by Sunday. (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/900SS%20rebuild/7ebaab1a.jpg) (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/900SS%20rebuild/54f61a63.jpg) (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/900SS%20rebuild/b98b8d6e.jpg) (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/900SS%20rebuild/95049279.jpg) more pics to come. :) Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: DesmoDiva on June 01, 2010, 04:18:05 PM Tease.....
Looking good. [thumbsup] [drool] Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: Monsterlover on June 01, 2010, 04:23:07 PM [evil]
Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: Duck-Stew on June 01, 2010, 04:41:31 PM HEY! That torn-down motor... Is that thing missing a camshaft?!? [evil]
Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: Monsterlover on June 01, 2010, 05:03:18 PM It's missing more than that...
Like the head of an intake valve... A piston... Etc [evil] Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: orangelion03 on June 02, 2010, 04:55:52 AM Is that ORANGE?!? Whatever color, it looks really nice!!
Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: Monsterlover on June 02, 2010, 05:14:34 AM Cell phone pics. . .
It's very close to KTM orange. Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: orangelion03 on June 02, 2010, 06:13:38 AM Cell phone pics. . . It's very close to KTM orange. Sweeeeeeht... Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: TJR178 on June 02, 2010, 06:56:42 AM Sorry about roping you in on that :)
It'll be worth it in the end though! Damn good lookin' so far. That thing's going to look sick when you're done [bacon] Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: Monsterlover on June 02, 2010, 07:57:27 AM I quit worrying about the price once I saw the orange.
When you look away, the image stays in your retinas :D Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: redial on June 02, 2010, 08:17:47 AM that is gonna be awesome!
AMG MOAR PICS! Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: junior varsity on June 02, 2010, 10:39:52 AM keep us updated. i like frame up builds.
Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: Popeye the Sailor on June 02, 2010, 10:50:10 AM Okay, now you need to paint your KTM Ducati red.
It'll satisfy my sense of proportion. Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: Monsterlover on June 02, 2010, 11:50:18 AM That would be wrong of me to do that to a KTM
Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: ducpainter on June 02, 2010, 12:03:35 PM I think if we're talking color changes we should be in ACC&Mods
Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: Monsterlover on June 02, 2010, 12:30:22 PM Move the thread wherever you think it fits best.
Just wanted to post pice of the reassembly process. More pics to come tonight :D Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: ducpainter on June 02, 2010, 12:36:43 PM Move the thread wherever you think it fits best. I think Dave is right...Just wanted to post pice of the reassembly process. More pics to come tonight :D the KTM must be red. [laugh] I'll do it cheap. :P Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: Monsterlover on June 02, 2010, 03:58:53 PM Not cheap enough....
Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: ducpainter on June 02, 2010, 04:13:42 PM Not cheap enough.... Send it...you'll be surprised [laugh] Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: Monsterlover on June 02, 2010, 04:26:13 PM I'm sure I would. To spite you I'd just crate the whole bike up as is and ship it to you.
Then, to spite me in return, you'd probably just wheel it into the driveway and hose the whole thing red, tires and all, and send it right back. Sound plausible to you? ;D Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: Monsterlover on June 02, 2010, 04:28:20 PM Tonight progress
Put wheels back together and mount up some tires. (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/900SS%20rebuild/6ac9e0d1.jpg) Viola! (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/900SS%20rebuild/e2d7f855.jpg) Best way to pull the clutch. Gun the hub nut off and pull out the whole assembly in one shot. This clutch is probably ok (I have a spare from the last engine) but I wanted to paint the side cover and needed to get at the primary gear. (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/900SS%20rebuild/a4079568.jpg) With the side cover off you can see my target on the left. (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/900SS%20rebuild/d82d7e32.jpg) Best way to pull the primary is thread on two clutch basket bolts, grab hold and pull it off. (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/900SS%20rebuild/ed8e186e.jpg) My primary from the last motor. I lightened it up :D (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/900SS%20rebuild/13dafde8.jpg) This engine obviously spent time outside. The cam pulleys had surface rust as did the cam belt rollers. I moved all that running gear over from the last engine. These pulleys are also adjustable (and not rusty) (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/900SS%20rebuild/361d902d.jpg) For fun here's a shot of the flywheel and starter sprag I lightened up. Is that thing really a sprag or am I just making stuff up? Anyhow... (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/900SS%20rebuild/c730a066.jpg) The original flywheel for comparison purposes. (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/900SS%20rebuild/8e3b0881.jpg) Side covers and clutch cover drying to perfection. (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/900SS%20rebuild/1f8ada6e.jpg) (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/900SS%20rebuild/183b8eef.jpg) That's all for today ;D Stay tuned... Same ML time.. Same ML channel Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: redial on June 03, 2010, 09:38:01 AM aaaaagggg
this thread is amazing! more pictures pleeeeease! must....paint....something....ktm orange! Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: Monsterlover on June 03, 2010, 12:04:15 PM Heading back out there now. My steering head bearing came in. My goal toningt is to get the side covers back on, cam belts and valve check.
If that goes well I'll try to get the forks and swing arm back on but that might be pushing it. Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: Monsterlover on June 03, 2010, 04:34:09 PM Tonight's progress
I didn't get done nearly what I wanted to because when I checked the valve clearances they were waaaay off. I might as well have been using a Popsicle stick to check them. Not wanting to buy new shims I decided to take all the shims out of the old engine. I know those clearances were spot on. I got the vertical head all done and ran out of steam. ;D So I started with all the clutch bits. Step one - put side cover back on. (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/900SS%20rebuild/dbbf5a73.jpg) Lightened clutch basket. (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/900SS%20rebuild/7270da6e.jpg) (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/900SS%20rebuild/3871dbc4.jpg) Pressure plate installed... (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/900SS%20rebuild/0cac123d.jpg) (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/900SS%20rebuild/7ee1f332.jpg) Plenty of pics of valve adjustments on the net so I skipped those. Here's a shot of the valve covers though ;D (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/900SS%20rebuild/dda91b8e.jpg) And a pic of the installed left side cover... (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/900SS%20rebuild/80a73cfa.jpg) Stay tuned... More to come tomorrow. Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: 1KDS on June 03, 2010, 04:57:10 PM What is the body color going to be?
Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: Düb Lüv on June 03, 2010, 05:02:28 PM What is the body color going to be? GREEN! like the stem of a pumpkin. Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: Monsterlover on June 03, 2010, 05:56:32 PM [laugh]
black Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: junior varsity on June 04, 2010, 04:05:19 AM my god, green would be so much better at this point. GENIUS
Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: ducpainter on June 04, 2010, 08:51:55 AM my god, green would be so much better at this point. GENIUS I'll do it green ML...package deal with the soon to be red KTM. [thumbsup] Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: Monsterlover on June 04, 2010, 12:50:45 PM I can't afford you.
Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: Duck-Stew on June 04, 2010, 06:16:09 PM Ur just skeered is all.... :)
Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: Monsterlover on June 04, 2010, 07:21:48 PM >:(
I want my cam back. ;D Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: Monsterlover on June 05, 2010, 04:45:31 PM Tonight's progress
Since I got the valves done on the vert cylinder I tackled the front cyl today. The easy access way- (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/900SS%20rebuild/46b0f80c.jpg) With the valves all done I started on the front end. I had already pressed the stem into the lower triple so all that was left was to put the bearing cups in the frame, grease em up and put the tripled in. With those installed I was able to throw the forks on. (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/900SS%20rebuild/3fd389d5.jpg) (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/900SS%20rebuild/297cf056.jpg) (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/900SS%20rebuild/7885d2af.jpg) With that done I started on the swing arm. Today's goal was to have the bike on the front and rear stands. (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/900SS%20rebuild/d817bbb8.jpg) On issue I ran into was debris in the threads of the clamp holes. One thing I lack is a set of metric taps, which I would have used to clean out the threads. I also knew that forcing the bolt through was a bad idea. So what I ended up doing was taking one of the clamp bolts and with a cutoff wheel cut a notch in the end to act like the flute of a tap. The picture is sucky but I tried at least. Hopefully you get the idea. To sum it up it worked beautifully. It threaded right in by hand and scooped out all the junk. (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/900SS%20rebuild/c6789e9f.jpg) And the swing arm is in! (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/900SS%20rebuild/8c8ba1d1.jpg) One more shot... (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/900SS%20rebuild/c8f72bb5.jpg) That's all for today :D Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: Raux on June 05, 2010, 08:06:19 PM WHAT??!! all that color work and you left the spring yellow [roll]
Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: Monsterlover on June 06, 2010, 02:41:19 AM Huh.
Never even thought about it to be honest. Maybe I should do it green ;D Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: TJR178 on June 06, 2010, 03:36:38 AM Damn that looks awesome [drool]
That ride must've inspired you to work your ass off on that thing last night...or you were just spending constructive time drying your drenched ass out ;D Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: DesmoDiva on June 06, 2010, 04:03:25 AM WHAT??!! all that color work and you left the spring yellow [roll] I would think it's a bit sacrilege to paint an Ohlins? Damn that looks awesome [drool] That ride must've inspired you to work your ass off on that thing last night...or you were just spending constructive time drying your drenched ass out ;D +1!! Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: Monsterlover on June 06, 2010, 04:08:10 AM I would think it's a bit sacralge to paint an Ohlins? It might be. But I just did it anyhow :D Black spring pics coming soon . . . Quote +1!! I didn't get that wet. I did actually hang up my leathers to promote drying, and hung my gloves off the garage door tracking with bungee cords to help them dry out [laugh] Only a little water made it into my boots, which seem to be designed to collect it [laugh] Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: greenmonster on June 06, 2010, 01:29:04 PM Nice writeup! [thumbsup]
Don`t you think your forks will have a hard time matching the rear shock? Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: Monsterlover on June 06, 2010, 01:35:40 PM Stop it! Stop it! Stop it!
[laugh] now I want black forks... I wrenched on it for 10 hrs straight today and made a ton of progress. Pics to come soon. Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: Monsterlover on June 06, 2010, 02:38:46 PM Lots of progress today.
I'll start with a pic of the spring after I was encouraged to make it not yellow anymore. (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/900SS%20rebuild/7d3ed031.jpg) Got the rear wheel set up and installed. I had spacing issues between the swing arm arms. I used the air sander and removed powdercoating where necessary but I was still off a good .060" Turns out I hadn't beat the Cush drives in far enough. The right sized socket and a wicked hammer took care of that right quick ;D (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/900SS%20rebuild/6e264002.jpg) I figured I might as well do the front wheel while I was at it. (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/900SS%20rebuild/82fad968.jpg) It's starting to look kinda like a motorcycle :) (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/900SS%20rebuild/f68dc152.jpg) Now to get moving on the rear brake assembly. (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/900SS%20rebuild/3de54b43.jpg) (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/900SS%20rebuild/1f986aae.jpg) And on to the foot peg brackets... (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/900SS%20rebuild/450cf58d.jpg) (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/900SS%20rebuild/67486761.jpg) The throttle bodies are easy to drop in place. Silicone spray can help if you have it around. I love the stuff, especially when it comes time to wrestle the airbox into place on the throttle bodies. (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/900SS%20rebuild/318278a6.jpg) Left side controls are in and the slave cylinder is bolted up. (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/900SS%20rebuild/ba46cd96.jpg) (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/900SS%20rebuild/d79342d9.jpg) Here's the before shot of the airbox. I ditched my original box because it was full of oil and bits of piston. Much easier to use this other box I had laying around. (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/900SS%20rebuild/49e0c778.jpg) And the after shot. My goal here is less restriction to incoming air. It's not pretty but this isn't a show bike. (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/900SS%20rebuild/419bdeb8.jpg) Starting the wiring harness. It's like stuffing 10 pounds of poop in a 5 pound bag sometimes. I didn't take any before pics. I just relied on how the harness was bent and that got me close enough. Only a couple of the plugs could be switched so I used a paint marker on the plug and it's component to keep track of what went where. (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/900SS%20rebuild/a66ec5ce.jpg) Fairing stay and gage in place. I say gage because there is only a tach on this bike. (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/900SS%20rebuild/f982f592.jpg) Got the airbox mostly where it needs to be. This was a pain in the ass, but I must be getting better at it. It was less of a pita this time around than I remember it being last time. (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/900SS%20rebuild/946e70d7.jpg) Side note... WTF is this thing? I found it on the floor under the engine. I have no memory of this item. Anyone know what it could be? (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/900SS%20rebuild/e57722d1.jpg) All right!! Got the airbox in place. I didn't even have to bust out a hammer. (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/900SS%20rebuild/faa8875e.jpg) Don't shoot me because of where these coils are mounted. The bike came to me with them like that. As ghetto as it is they did survive a left side low side completely unscathed. (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/900SS%20rebuild/b2d34d83.jpg) The last thing I did today was get the nose fairing back on. I'm likin it :D (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/900SS%20rebuild/195231ca.jpg) (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/900SS%20rebuild/49d4983d.jpg) That's all for now. Battery is on the tender so maybe tomorrow I'll get to try and light this thing off and see if it runs... Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: ducpainter on June 06, 2010, 04:17:13 PM What else do you need besides a tach? [roll]
And that coil mount was the only alternative after I salvaged what was left of the stock fairing cage. Ghetto... >:( Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: Monsterlover on June 06, 2010, 04:33:48 PM What else do you need besides a tach? [roll] nothing ??? It wasn't a complaint, just pointing it out was all Quote And that coil mount was the only alternative after I salvaged what was left of the stock fairing cage. Ghetto... >:( it is ghetto but I'm not saying it's wrong. Three really isn't a stellar place to mount those without some complicated bracketry. I'd love to stick them in the airbox or somethin like that. However since this bike has already tried to murder me twice, it gets no such love from me. They stay how they are ;D Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: Some Dude on June 06, 2010, 05:10:13 PM Nice writeup! [thumbsup] Don`t you think your forks will have a hard time matching the rear shock? What he said. Nice looking bike though Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: redial on June 07, 2010, 03:13:27 AM great progress,
the rear spring looks sooooo good in matte black! [thumbsup] Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: Goat_Herder on June 07, 2010, 07:51:09 AM [clap] love these build threads! It's great seeing your bike taking shape. Keep up to good work and keep those pics coming!
Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: 1KDS on June 07, 2010, 12:43:58 PM checking this thread daily, love the fast progress. Bike is starting to come together and look great! [thumbsup]
Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: Monsterlover on June 07, 2010, 02:56:01 PM Im taking tonight off. It's 9pm and i wanna watch a movie ;D
hard to believe that bike went from nothing to where it is now in 5 days. Im timing myself as well. Im up to almost 16hrs Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: redial on June 08, 2010, 08:05:55 AM cant wait to see the body work go on and the colors come together! [drink]
Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: Monsterlover on June 13, 2010, 01:02:17 PM So I got back to it today determined to have it running and ready for a test ride.
Got the tank on (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/900SS%20rebuild/6a74f696.jpg) I use a sharpie to mark the tank tubes so I know what hose goes where. I also put a mark with the paint marker on the feed line. I know the return line has a plastic ring on it with a "R" on it but smarter people have done dumber things... I've had the battery on the tender for days. I'm running that super tiny yuasa. Can't remember the number atm. As is it is not enough cca to start this bike. I plan to upgrade the ground and starter solenoid/ starter cables to 8 gauge to see if it helps. If not I'll have to get a bigger battery. DP pipes hung in place. I still need to have new hangers made so if anyone has access to a waterjet machine I need your help. These won't pass tech. (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/900SS%20rebuild/3e00e839.jpg) A crash would have the pipes torn off the bike and turned into debris on the track for other riders to try and miss ;D But for now they are fine. The final piece is on!!!!! (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/900SS%20rebuild/aa0ad11e.jpg) I had to use my 12v charger on "start" to get the bike to run. As it turns out, low battery voltage/ cca was only one of three problems I had between me and my test ride. In the midst of trying to get it to fire I kept smelling something burning. Then fluffy stuff stuff started intermittently shooting out of the exhaust pipes! DOH!!! The engine had come to me with paper towels balled up and shoved into the intake and exhaust ports to keep stuff out. I know I pulled the intake ones. I had left one or both paper towell balls in when I bolted up the header pipes [laugh] No reason to pull the header pipes when fire will do my bidding [evil] Once most or all of that was blown/burned out it still wouldn't fire up. Even on brand new plugs. I had the coils switched. I swapped plugs to see if it would help and it fired immediately (on the charger on start) Final shots- Idling in the driveway waiting to go on a test ride. (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/900SS%20rebuild/5504ce5b.jpg) (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/900SS%20rebuild/fafa3451.jpg) And after I got back from a five minute cruise (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/900SS%20rebuild/a6a5c849.jpg) Sara gives me a celebratory forehead cleaning [laugh] (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/900SS%20rebuild/71b24feb.jpg) Everything went ok I think. The rear shock needs help. I'd guess I have less than 10mm of sag, not much compression or rebound. Don't know why though. I never did anything to the shock other than paint the spring and it worked well for the previous owner. The bike seems slow to turn but I'm used to the ktm sumo with wide bars. Actually I think it's pretty good in the front. It seems like it would be stable in mid turn. I could only do so much on cold tires. In my neighborhood [evil] Hope you enjoyed my little writup. Sorry about the iPhone pics. It's all I had. That's all she wrote.... Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: lethe on June 13, 2010, 01:08:30 PM [thumbsup]
Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: ducpainter on June 13, 2010, 01:16:58 PM How much preload did you wind in to that spring?
Shouldn't be more than 15mm. I still think you can make simple hangers that will pass tech with 1"x1/4" aluminum bar stock with some simple bends. I appreciate the fact you made it yours....I liked it better before. :-* Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: Monsterlover on June 13, 2010, 01:17:56 PM Forgot to mention that I kept track of the reassembly time with the stop watch on my phone.
Except today. I forgot to run it today [bang] Im guessing 2 hours today. Add that to what I've already done and im at 18hrs to rebuild and ride this bike from a pile of parts. Next time I think Ill be closer to 12 :D Wait. . . did I just say next time???? ;D Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: Monsterlover on June 13, 2010, 01:23:42 PM How much preload did you wind in to that spring? Shouldn't be more than 15mm. I measured before I took it apart from the head of the shock to the lock ring and made it the same, to the thousandth of an inch, when I put it back together. Quote I still think you can make simple hangers that will pass tech with 1"x1/4" aluminum bar stock with some simple bends. I probably will end up doing something like that since there are really no great alternatives. Quote I appreciate the fact you made it yours....I liked it better before. :-* Thanks :) It wasn't bad before. I just get carried away. Paint came out good enough for a trackbike I think. Im not a painter though. I can see why you charge what you charge ;) Wanna ride it at dimby? Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: ducpainter on June 13, 2010, 01:31:34 PM I measured before I took it apart from the head of the shock to the lock ring and made it the same, to the thousandth of an inch, when I put it back together. Try backing it off to 0 and winding in 15mm. I saw the thing in a pic, and I don't remember that many threads showing.I probably will end up doing something like that since there are really no great alternatives. Thanks :) It wasn't bad before. I just get carried away. Paint came out good enough for a trackbike I think. Im not a painter though. I can see why you charge what you charge ;) Wanna ride it at dimby? I may take you up on that. I miss the bike as a 750, it was dog slow and a real blast to ride hard. I miss my Monster a little too. The 2V bikes are awesome at NHMS. The 996 is fun, but you always are muscling the thing around, and the places you need to be on the throttle hard are somewhat less than confidence inspiring on a 100+ hp bike. There isn't much room there...you'll see. Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: Monsterlover on June 13, 2010, 02:02:39 PM What happened to your monster?
Are you a 4v only man now? Say it isn't so! Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: lethe on June 13, 2010, 02:04:37 PM Try backing it off to 0 and winding in 15mm. I saw the thing in a pic, and I don't remember that many threads showing. sounds like a place for a 620 to rule!I may take you up on that. I miss the bike as a 750, it was dog slow and a real blast to ride hard. I miss my Monster a little too. The 2V bikes are awesome at NHMS. The 996 is fun, but you always are muscling the thing around, and the places you need to be on the throttle hard are somewhat less than confidence inspiring on a 100+ hp bike. There isn't much room there...you'll see. going to have to do one with you guys one day Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: Duck-Stew on June 13, 2010, 02:39:59 PM Nicely built, nicely colored (Du-Ka-Toom-i)...
Just one technical point to add: As the cable size # goes up, the size of the wire goes down. If you plan on upgrading from the stock cables (which are 6ga BTW), use some 4ga ones and not 8ga. That is all... [moto] Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: ducpainter on June 13, 2010, 02:40:26 PM What happened to your monster? I still have the Monster...don't get nervous. ;DAre you a 4v only man now? Say it isn't so! I just don't ride it on the track any more. Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: Monsterlover on June 13, 2010, 02:48:56 PM Nicely built, nicely colored (Du-Ka-Toom-i)... Just one technical point to add: As the cable size # goes up, the size of the wire goes down. If you plan on upgrading from the stock cables (which are 6ga BTW), use some 4ga ones and not 8ga. That is all... [moto] Gotcha. . . done many a car audio install in my day. that being said, there's no way the stock cables are 6 gauge. Id guess 10 at best. At least on my bike. . . I have a bunch of leftover power and ground wire (8 gage and 4 gage) and the 8's are slightly bigger than the stock wire (insulation OD) Even if they were the same gage I'd bet that my wire would pass more juice as they're braided copper and very flexible whereas the stock wire is pretty stiff. Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: ducpainter on June 13, 2010, 03:05:47 PM Gotcha. . . You really can't go by insulation od.done many a car audio install in my day. that being said, there's no way the stock cables are 6 gauge. Id guess 10 at best. At least on my bike. . . I have a bunch of leftover power and ground wire (8 gage and 4 gage) and the 8's are slightly bigger than the stock wire (insulation OD) Even if they were the same gage I'd bet that my wire would pass more juice as they're braided copper and very flexible whereas the stock wire is pretty stiff. Just sayin' Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: Monsterlover on June 13, 2010, 03:29:43 PM I know, I know.
I'll peal back the insulation and measure it Will report back ;D Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: DesmoDiva on June 13, 2010, 03:41:50 PM [clap] [clap] [bow_down] [bow_down] [bacon] [bacon]
B wants to know which model of KTM that is?? ;D Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: Monsterlover on June 13, 2010, 03:53:44 PM Prototype super duke never released to the public ;D
Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: DesmoDiva on June 13, 2010, 03:58:25 PM You must have got a killer deal on it!!
:-* Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: Monsterlover on June 13, 2010, 04:07:03 PM Last year yeah.
After destroying the last motor and finishing this rebuild I probably can't afford to get rid of it [laugh] Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: Duck-Stew on June 13, 2010, 04:40:32 PM All the stock cables I've played with were 6ga... Maybe someone did a switch-er-oo on you.
Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: ducpainter on June 14, 2010, 12:14:12 AM All the stock cables I've played with were 6ga... Maybe someone did a switch-er-oo on you. I never changed them.I think he's assuming the od reflects 'normal' insulation thickness. Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: TJR178 on June 14, 2010, 02:51:05 AM Sweet man! I can't believe it looks like that after seeing it sprawled across the floor only a few weeks ago.
[clap] Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: Monsterlover on June 14, 2010, 03:40:06 AM When are we doing yours?
[evil] Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: Monsterlover on June 14, 2010, 10:14:02 AM I never changed them. I think he's assuming the od reflects 'normal' insulation thickness. No. . . the 8 gage I have is only slightly larger than the wire on the SS (od) so that leads me to believe that the wire on the duc is 8 or smaller. Like I said, I'm gonna measure it. Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: ♣ McKraut ♣ on June 14, 2010, 11:03:25 AM No. . . the 8 gage I have is only slightly larger than the wire on the SS (od) so that leads me to believe that the wire on the duc is 8 or smaller. Like I said, I'm gonna measure it. what would be an optimal ground cable gauge for upgrade purposes? would it be different for the liquid cooled bikes? i've thought about doing this on suggestions from others (in re: easier starting of the engine), but wasn't sure what exactly i would be looking for in terms of gauge etc. btw really nice work on the rebuild [thumbsup] Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: Monsterlover on June 14, 2010, 11:12:37 AM Thanks!
Should be no difference for a liquid cooled bike. If you have 10 gage now, or 8, you could step up one size larger (8 or 6) Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: Duck-Stew on June 14, 2010, 01:51:19 PM From my research, stock cables are 6ga so an upgrade would be to go to 4ga.
Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: Monsterlover on June 14, 2010, 02:11:54 PM Well, here's what I found.
The 8awg wire I have is Phoenix Gold wire and it's labeled as 8 awg. I cut back some insulation on the ground and starter cables and they measure .190" As does my 8awg wire. According to all the charts I just found with google, .190 wire diameter puts it between 5 and 4 awg. My wire has thicker insulation on it. My theory was that the bike's wire was also 8awg or smaller ( I was thinking 10. . .cloudy memory) which proved to be correct. However, that's using my wire as "8awg" reference. In reality it seems that it's really larger than 8. Not sure what else to say except I guess I could throw on a piece of 4awg I have but in reality that's probably more like 2 [laugh] Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: mitt on June 14, 2010, 04:33:32 PM I am pretty sure Europe doesn't use AWG NEMA sizes. More like mm or mm^2.
Cool project ML. [thumbsup] edit - found a quick x-reference chart http://www.litz-wire.com/wirediminsions.html (http://www.litz-wire.com/wirediminsions.html) mitt Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: mitt on June 14, 2010, 04:39:05 PM The optimal ground size could be determined pretty easy if you know how many amps and how long a run it is.
Wiring practices on cars / bikes / trailers are so sh!tty compared to any other wiring it is amazing they work at all. I always get a kick out of car audio amp kits, that come with like 16' of 4 gauge wire for the + side, and 1' of 4 gauge for the - side, then use the iron body / frame for the rest of the - line. Using steel as a conductor for 15' defeats the runs of massive Cu wire. mitt Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: Monsterlover on June 14, 2010, 05:38:33 PM Thanks Mitt.
Your chart is the same as all the ones I found. What's the deal with my wire being marked 8 and actually being much larger than that? Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: mitt on June 15, 2010, 03:12:42 AM Thanks Mitt. Your chart is the same as all the ones I found. What's the deal with my wire being marked 8 and actually being much larger than that? I am not sure why that would be. There are so many different types of wire, it could be it is larger due to a loose braid for flexibility (you mentioned it was soft) like for welding cable. mitt Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: ♣ McKraut ♣ on June 15, 2010, 05:19:40 AM so... there's no harm in "over-doing" the gauge with a thicker gauge wire... like 4 or larger(thicker)?
Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: mitt on June 15, 2010, 07:08:39 AM so... there's no harm in "over-doing" the gauge with a thicker gauge wire... like 4 or larger(thicker)? No harm - until you get into a very specific wiring application I deal with. In my industry, we use the resistance of the wire (like 10 to 14 size) to help limit the current during very high short circuits on our devices. If we over cabled our devices, we would have more current let through the cable due to lower impedance, and thus push our devices further toward or perhaps over their intended design margins. mitt Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: Monsterlover on June 15, 2010, 08:52:12 AM So it's like a fuse...
That comes on a spool? ;D Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: mitt on June 15, 2010, 09:00:02 AM So it's like a fuse... That comes on a spool? ;D Everything is a fuse if you use enough current [thumbsup] But, we can't fuse open the wire, or even blister its insulation, but 8 feet (4 on each side of the device) of 14 gauge wire can limit a lot of current due to its internal resistance when you are taking 10,000 amps or more available at say 120V potential. mitt Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: Monsterlover on June 15, 2010, 12:35:14 PM I don't know what you do for a living but I think I'm afraid of it.
;D Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: 1KDS on June 15, 2010, 04:12:02 PM Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: mitt on June 15, 2010, 04:32:01 PM Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: 1KDS on June 15, 2010, 05:30:57 PM Couldn't resist, I have been watching you talk electrics in this thread waiting for my chance to pounce.
Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: 1KDS on June 15, 2010, 05:31:43 PM Oh yeah, the bike turned out sick ML [thumbsup]
Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: ducpainter on June 16, 2010, 03:42:03 PM Oh no you didn't ;D [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh]mitt Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: Monsterlover on July 06, 2010, 04:57:07 AM So I upgraded the power and ground cables on the SS and OMG what a difference in start-ability.
The cables that were on there were actually 6 awg. I replaced them with 4awg that I had laying around. As it turns out car audio makers (or at least Phoenix Gold and Monster Cable- the two brands I had laying around) oversize their cables. They call it 4awg, it's actually 2awg when you measure it and look it up on the chart. So I went from 6 to 2 on the bike. I replaced the ground cable, the power to the starter solenoid, and from the solenoid to the starter. I use a tiny battery. If it were any smaller it would say Everedy on it. Before the bike would crank and crank and crank and maybe sputter a little. By the time it actually would start i would be wondering if it was going to start or the battery would die first. Now it cranks a couple times and it's running. :D For those with tiny batteries I highly recommend doing this. (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/848af111.jpg) Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: junior varsity on July 06, 2010, 05:49:51 PM Agreed. Great upgrade.
Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: adgergewh on July 06, 2010, 06:17:01 PM Lots of progress today. \Side note... WTF is this thing? I found it on the floor under the engine. I have no memory of this item. Anyone know what it could be? (http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y25/900rider/900SS%20rebuild/e57722d1.jpg) If you didn't figure it out ( i haven't read past this post) it goes on your swingarm stand Title: Re: SS rebuild Post by: junior varsity on July 07, 2010, 04:31:00 AM i put them on my ears when i play rugby.
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