While doing my valve adjustment, i saw this scar on the rod that holds the valve arm.
Any idea how it could of happened??
(http://kuixihe.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=592&g2_serialNumber=1)
Is that a 'scar', or a groove to let oil in?
Quote from: ducpainter on June 05, 2010, 07:48:01 AM
Is that a 'scar', or a groove to let oil in?
yea i just checked my haynes manual. i feel dumb. if thye are going ot make a groove like that, they should make it look nicer. mine is all jagged everywhere.
now i just have to figure out why my closing shim doesnt just drop to reveal the collets when i push on the closing rocker arm.
I installed the collets on one of the arms but theres a lot of binding and theres no way for me to measure the correct size without buying a whole kit and seeing which one fits best.
Quote from: He Man on June 05, 2010, 07:51:32 AM
yea i just checked my haynes manual. i feel dumb. if thye are going ot make a groove like that, they should make it look nicer. mine is all jagged everywhere.
now i just have to figure out why my closing shim doesnt just drop to reveal the collets when i push on the closing rocker arm.
I installed the collets on one of the arms but theres a lot of binding and theres no way for me to measure the correct size without buying a whole kit and seeing which one fits best.
Give it a little tap to free it.
Stop thinking like an engineer and start thinking like a mechanic. ;)
Im using a brass punch to hit it, it just wont budge.
im going to get rid of the hemostats and stick a clothing hanger in there to support the valve instead so i can tap it all i want. A screw driver in my sparkplug hole aint working to well.
jagged edges should have less surface area, and flow better. Why waste time (time = money) making an oil feed groove pretty, when only the techs (or the mechanic, or the owner) will ever see it
whatever, i know what it is now, but it just looks like someone went in with a screw driver and hammer. Thats all im saying, it didnt make sense how it got there other then it was always there.
Anyway, i still have to get the damn closing shim to slide down. going to try it again today. I just wish the closing shim didnt hide the collets so well.
U have the mbp collets or the stock rings?
i have the MBP collets. I installed them onto one of the valves, and it was to tight. so i removed it and reinstalled the stock ones. I dont have other shims to test which one would fit. And ontop of that, I did something stupid.
My hand slipped on the closing rocker arm ( im using a brass rod/punch to hold it down) and it pinned the stock collet into the shim and now it defintely wont drop. I called a few people to come give me a hand, and no the rare occasion i really need a hand, no one is available. :(
i need someone to support the valve with a thick rod so i can smack this stupid closing shim off and pry this stupid collet out.
Anyone have another way? if only my hand didnt slipp.
(http://kuixihe.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=595&g2_serialNumber=1)
go get some forceps to hold the valve while you use both hands to do the work
If I tap the shim hard enough my forceps just move around ( i have a pair they just arent shown). i need some solid pressure on the valve so i can tap if off...all while holding the closing arm down.
Quote from: He Man on June 05, 2010, 10:03:30 AM
If I tap the shim hard enough my forceps just move around ( i have a pair they just arent shown). i need some solid pressure on the valve so i can tap if off...all while holding the closing arm down.
You should be able to insert an 8mm allen wrench, or similar, through the intake cover side and hold the closer away from the valve.
Quote from: ducpainter on June 05, 2010, 10:10:42 AM
You should be able to insert an 8mm allen wrench, or similar, through the intake cover side and hold the closer away from the valve.
+1, it takes some finessing to get the wrench in the right place but once there it really simplifies the process
wow that sucks.. good luck with that.
i'll give you credit for trying all this stuff.
good thing for a lot of us to see this stuff you have going on. it keeps people like nick at valley ducati and stu at flightcycles in business. those of us that prefer to leave this stuff up to the mechanics keep the independent mechanics and dealers in business.
That's a pretty nasty scar on that arm. I think you should get it welded up asap.
Quote from: MrIncredible on June 05, 2010, 01:18:44 PM
That's a pretty nasty scar on that arm. I think you should get it welded up asap.
TIG or MIG? :P
I got the closing shim off eventually. I took a clothes hanger folded in half and then put a curve on it and stuck it inside and had a friend push on it then i started to tap the closing shim until it cam off. it was alot esier since the valve was firmly pushing back. Defintely needed 2nd set of hands for that one.
MBP collets do not fit without swapping to smaller closing shims. to much binding on the cam gear. either ill sell them or get ECS to install them since it would be to costly to get a billion shims just to see which one fits best.
Clearly seen below, my bike runs like crap with reason.
Horizontal
Intake
Open/Close .005/.002
Exhaust
Open/Close .006/.002
Verticle
Intake
Open/Close .004/.003
Exhaust
Open/Close .005/.003
Quote from: ducpainter on June 05, 2010, 10:10:42 AM
You should be able to insert an 8mm allen wrench, or similar, through the intake cover side and hold the closer away from the valve.
+2 on this, I struggled mightily until the light bulb went off. Like an extra pair of hands where there isn't room for an extra pair.
i need to try that next time. I couldnt get the 8mm easily, and a 2nd pair of hands was commig in. so i said make the beast with two backs it. I have to get back in there later to measure the shims when i get my damn micrometer back.
borrowed a micrometer and bought another shim mearsuing tool.
Since the MBP collets cause binding and i want to avoid buying new shims, i think i can get away with just installing hte collets, then check for binding, then sand the closing shim .001" at a time and see when i lose the binding condition but still be able to spin it.... it will take a LONG ass time though. any other suggestions? Maybe measure all the shims and start swaping some around.
You can measure all the shims and you will most likely be able to use some. A lot of shops will swap shims for a few bucks.
Quote from: He Man on June 05, 2010, 03:06:57 PM
TIG or MIG? :P
I got the closing shim off eventually. I took a clothes hanger folded in half and then put a curve on it and stuck it inside and had a friend push on it then i started to tap the closing shim until it cam off. it was alot esier since the valve was firmly pushing back. Defintely needed 2nd set of hands for that one.
MBP collets do not fit without swapping to smaller closing shims. to much binding on the cam gear. either ill sell them or get ECS to install them since it would be to costly to get a billion shims just to see which one fits best.
Clearly seen below, my bike runs like crap with reason.
Horizontal
Intake
Open/Close .005/.002
Exhaust
Open/Close .006/.002
Verticle
Intake
Open/Close .004/.003
Exhaust
Open/Close .005/.003
what kind of numbers are you shooting for?
He Man, first off, the SAME thing happened to me when I did my adjustment. That shit SUCKS. Took forever to get the closing shim loose again. I believe I ended up using a combo of prying with a TINY screw driver at the collet and pushing down on the shim. Was a REAL PITA. Second, those numbers aren't bad at all man. How many miles are on the bike? And like mentioned above, what # are you shooting for?
Quote from: He Man on June 07, 2010, 07:44:57 PM
Maybe measure all the shims and start swaping some around.
Without a stockpile of shims and no reasonably close dealer, that is what I did. Measured all the clearances and all of the shims first. Put 'em all back together (figured I could use the practice [roll] ) and then ordered new shims from EMS. Sloooooow going this way but it seemed to work. EMS ships super fast and, it seems to me anyway, that his shims are much more accurate than the ones I bought from a dealership (over-sanded one :( ). If you go to a dealership, bring your micrometer. Then.... you get to play the "which way does this half ring go" game. ;D
Quote from: He Man on June 05, 2010, 03:06:57 PM
TIG or MIG? :P
I got the closing shim off eventually. I took a clothes hanger folded in half and then put a curve on it and stuck it inside and had a friend push on it then i started to tap the closing shim until it cam off. it was alot esier since the valve was firmly pushing back. Defintely needed 2nd set of hands for that one.
MBP collets do not fit without swapping to smaller closing shims. to much binding on the cam gear. either ill sell them or get ECS to install them since it would be to costly to get a billion shims just to see which one fits best.
Clearly seen below, my bike runs like crap with reason.
Horizontal
Intake
Open/Close .005/.002
Exhaust
Open/Close .006/.002
Verticle
Intake
Open/Close .004/.003
Exhaust
Open/Close .005/.003
Are those numbers really that bad to make the bike run poorly?
i dont know if they are that bad that they run poorly. But the bike certainly does run poorly. Im not sure if the TPS and CO level has anything to do with how shitty it runs (im sure it does, but how much i dont know). It was last checked about 7,000 miles ago.
Im shooting for the 2v specs i have in my haynes (i copied this from ducati suite, im pretty sure they are the same)
Intake openers: .003"-.004"
Exhaust openers: .004"-.005"
Intake closers: .000"-.001"
Exhaust closers: .000"-.001"
hackers2r, once i got a 2nd pair of hands getting the collet off wasnt a problem at all.
Yeah, now that I look closer, those closers are off. How is the bike running like crap, what symptoms? Good to hear you got that shim off! I was by myself, what a mission it was!
Those numbers aren't bad at all. When I did my valve adjustment, my closing shim clearances ranged from .020-.026 :o
Quote from: mojo on June 09, 2010, 04:56:43 PM
Those numbers aren't bad at all. When I did my valve adjustment, my closing shim clearances ranged from .020-.026 :o
inch or mm??????
the bike has a bunch of flat spots, and its always coughing up the intake and it always feels rough.
Searching around, i found this post by duckstew...
http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=33755.msg588379#msg588379 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=33755.msg588379#msg588379)
QuoteAll the openers measured 0.005" and all the closers were at 0.002". I left it all alone. No need to mess with that...
which leads me to ask, why the hell is my bike running so crappy if those specs are pretty good.
I have some other questions that i found answer through search, but just wanted to verify them because im doubting if i was doing it right the first time or not.
You are suppose to measure the valves at TDC during the end of the Compression stroke. But if you remove the belts, you can just measure them when the opening rocker arm is loose, or course at TDC just to prevent the valve from falling in if u have to remove the closing shim correct?
the 2nd question is when to measure the top cylinder. There is a hash mark on the 8o clockish positiion. thats where the cam should be if i am looking to make measurements right.
my recollection could be bad but on mine (not a DS) both pulleys have a hashmark corresponding to one cylinder's (horiz?) TDC.
Quote from: He Man on June 09, 2010, 06:44:09 PM
which leads me to ask, why the hell is my bike running so crappy if those specs are pretty good.
Lean fuel issue? TB synched? What do your plugs look like? ....just ideas.
Fast food grease. Bad for the arteries, and Ducati's.
i got it all figured out. called EMS duc who sells the collets and to avoid buying new shims and since the closers are really tight (but not by too much) im just sanding them, reinstalling them etc.
So far i got 2 of them done. just 1 more cylinder and i should have .000 clearance for all my closers. :) taking pics as i go along so ill post them up for future reference later.
Try gaping your spark plugs to the spec. I think I remember you telling me you didnt gap them. I feel it could make a difference.
Hell...if a few thousandths on a valve shim make a difference then I would bet gaping them might help a bit.