I thought this was a perfect example of a rider with stiff arms.
its also a perfect example of what happens when you loose the rear and chop the throttle.
Highside Motorcycle Crash on Mulholland (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlMbFlPzS24&feature=related#normal)
Wonder if that's the same turn from the scooter crash I posted... I see some spary paint on the road that says yes.
Yeah, I see way too many folks around here riding all lock arm like that... No bueno. There's some (probaly not much) chance he could have saved that if his body mechanics had been better.
Also if you watch closely, it's easier to see in the full speed version, his line isn't smooth. It has a distinct wobble in it
I would say his form is horrible but then I would have to call it a form.
You can also see him crack the throttle open right before the highside.
Question?
in the slow mo you can tell that the rider notices that his rear end is getting loose and so lets off the throttle and high sides. So here is my question do you
a) maintain throttle
b) pull in the clutch
i know letting off the throttle causes a high side so what is the correct option in the current situation?
Stay on the throttle, possibly even increase it very very slightly to ride out the slide. You'll either succeed or lowside...both are better than a highside
Pulling in the clutch will do the same thing as chopping the throttle...highside.
When it doubt, get ON the throttle. It sounds counterintuitive, and is damn near impossible to do in the heat of the moment unless you've trained yourself to do it. You don't have time to think about it. It's gotta come from muscle memory. And frankly, I have no idea how to train yourself to do it other than by racing or by really hard track riding.
And yeah, his form and his constant line corrections suck.
What if the cause of the rear stepping out is due to getting on the motor to hard?
I've slide the rear alot while doing slow speed body work in 1st gear, usually ill just hold the throttle, it gives a little shudder and i have no issues what so ever. NEver tried apply gas when the problem was too much gas to begin with...
Reread what Triple J said, in particular "You'll either succeed or lowside...both are better than a highside"
Surprisingly enough, he lands on his ass. That kind of impact on a knee or shoulder/neck, he most likely would not have "walked" away. I bet it doesn't feel good to sit.
I hear something touching the ground twice--one when he wobbles, and once right before he loses the rear.
the pegs, he was scrapign them, thats why he had to pick the bike up and correct his turn.
iin all the videos
its either
a) excessive throttle
b)too much trail braking
if you noticed all the gear looks brand new like they rarely wear them cause they never ride...or we got a bunch of doubleeagles on our hands who keep their gear meticulously clean. Ill vote for the former though.
at least he had some gear on and not crocs and shorts like the scooter guy
Quote from: Spidey on August 03, 2010, 07:41:34 AM
When it doubt, get ON the throttle.
"GAS GAS GAS GAS GAS GAS GAS GAS" [then shit self]
I thought it was cool how everyone ran over to check on and coddle the bike, ignoring the rider [laugh]
Seriously, didn't he turn the front wheel back to the right (direction of the slide), forcing the rear to continue around and eventually hook up? I thought I learned in MSF to not steer into the slide as one does with a rear-wheel-drive car for that very reason....
Or else I'm a dummy [bang]
Well, at the point the rear stepped out he was already going off. He was in no position with his locked arms and poor form to recover anything. So whatever happened after the rear stepped was mostly just happenstance on his end - he was already past a point of control
My initial impression was that he tilted the bike too far and grounded something that doesn't move, lifting the rear. Been there, done that. I personally enjoy it, but I guess you gotta know when it's coming to enjoy it, huh? ;D
The old addage of "when in doubt, gas it" is somewhat valid, depending on circumstance...front or rear?
For a front end slide it is almost always valid, as most front end slides are the result of a front that's overloaded. During overload a judicious application of throttle lightens the front and regains traction. In nearly 30 years of riding motorcycles I can count on one hand (OK....one finger) the number of times I've lost the front because it was light! (and that one occurred in a right hander on a hill that crests during the turn....it's turn two at Barber Motorsports Park....and it resulted in an unrecoverable slide because I wicked, lightening it further......oops.......I still wick when the front moves....experience still says its the correct action)
For a rear slide it depends on severity. Typically I'll simply maintain throttle rather than wicking. If the slide is "new" and the yaw angle is minor, this, or a slight increase of throttle setting, actually results in optimal acceleration off corner. If, on acceleration from corner exit, the slide is minor and grip suddenly fails, but yaw is still minor I chop throttle. I didn't say decrease, I said "chop". While the yaw angle is minor, a sudden reclaimation of grip and the accompanying directional correction are easily acceptable. I've never crashed with this technique (until it happens this coming Sunday since I haven't knocked on wood). If the slide is well developed I maintain throttle and steer in (countersteering, more kinda dirt track style). Nearly as often as not, in my experience, this results in a low side....but having tried the alternative I'll slide, please. I've rarely gotten to this point on the street, as my feel for the rear is such that I avoid slides of this magnitude on asphalt. Modern rubber typically "goes off" slowly and predictably with a few exceptions.....like early Pilot Sports and a few Dunlop offerings I've tried that hold until they don't, new or old.
To me, this rider would have been better served moving his weight to the inside of the turn, decreasing the lean angle required to hold the turn at his speed. This is why "hanging off" works! If you're grinding hard parts, you need to either move the hard parts up or, in the words of Jamie James at the Schawntz School, "Get your ass off the bike"...as he told my buddy Chuck Campbell to get him to hang off more.
The MSF school assumes you're riding a 700 pound HD and you're sliding because you're on ice or you've locked the rear in a panic slide. The MSF is a GREAT tool for beginning riders, but it's not a handling school!
Quote from: Sad Panda on July 15, 2010, 04:50:11 AM
Wonder if that's the same turn from the scooter crash I posted... I see some spary paint on the road that says yes.
Yeah, I see way too many folks around here riding all lock arm like that... No bueno. There's some (probaly not much) chance he could have saved that if his body mechanics had been better.
Also if you watch closely, it's easier to see in the full speed version, his line isn't smooth. It has a distinct wobble in it
Yes it is.
This guy makes a living taking video/photo of bike wrecking on Mulholland.
There are dozens of videos of wrecks all over that specific turn. Some attribute it to that black patch in the apex
Here's a playlist with every video he has of wrecks on that turn. I watched ALL of them... some pretty crazy ones. One bike bursts into flames and burns away to almost nothing.
[[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qX9jUWRqr-4&feature=list_related&playnext=1&list=PL467A2492C0B9CBFF]]
Can't imbed it, you need to paste into browser in order to view the entire playlist.
edit* here's that bike burning...
Motorcycle Crash - R6 Highsides & Burns on Mulholland (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1UYkrxFls4&feature=BF&list=PL467A2492C0B9CBFF&index=18#normal)
Ok, does the woman at 4:35 have a tail? WTF.
that's just her hat tied to her belt or belt loop
Way too much traffic on that make the beast with two backsing road. [thumbsdown]
nice Morgan at 4:30ish.
That one area where past the guard rail where several crash must be like a 2nd apex or something. Seems plenty make the section along the guard rail only to suddenly lose the rear like they're throttling up to much ~
JM
The rider also appears to be pushing the bike down, i.e. his body is on the outside of the bike in the turn... granted some folks still do that (Larry Pegram, for one).
damn. im pretty sure it was horrible watching his bike burn.
Here's a tip:
If you need to put out a fire with a fire extinguisher, spray at the BASE of the flames. Don't try to douse it like you're spraying a garden hose.