Ducati Monster Forum

I thought it was time to have one place for all the Siemens ECU reflash talk.  Feel free to add  [thumbsup]

First, a little background of my own: My M1100 is running DP ECU, Termi Full Exhaust system and is kitted out with a WASPworks airbox-be-gone replacement induction kit, which also includes PC5 and 2x O2 "optimizers".  Using WASP's preloaded mapping for Termi slipons + stock headers the bike is running way, way better than stock.... but....  I'd like to remap the PC5 with precise mapping specific to my exact configuration, rather than the off-the-peg mapping developed on an M1100 running stock headers and different DP ECU.  

Soooo... in pursuit of the above, a session was booked with my local Dynotune centre.   Without going into all the tedious details.... I got make the beast with two backsed around  [roll] and it wasnt possible to go ahead with my Dynotune today as planned  [bang].   Which led me to begin to reconsider my options and hence this thread.

I had intended to leave the DP "Racing EVO" ECU unmolested and contunue running closed loop with the "optimized" O2 sensors.  However, I'm now wondering if its worth dumping the Lambdas so that when I eventually do get the bike on a Dyno, I can run PC5 mapping throughout the entire range.

To date the options for Siemens ECU reflashing seem be be these:

Anthony of Desmoworks is (or will soon be) offering a send-and-return reflash service, for US$300.   Other than deleting 02 inputs the specifics of the available maps remain unclear (to me). Perhaps Anthony will chime in.

Rexxer offers a variety of reflash units, the most cost effective for a single user comes in at around US$475.  It allows the user to backup the original ECU map, and then reflash with new custom mapping.  Again, details of the available mapping dont seem too clear to me.  Although the do-it-yourself nature of this option is strangely appealing......  More here >> http://www.rexxer.eu/ (http://www.rexxer.eu/)

So, whats the wisdom out there?  Is it really worth going to the trouble, effort and expense to rid myself of the closed loop when the 02 "optimizers" seem to do a pretty good job already?  

Anybody have any better ideas or more information on the reflash options for Siemens ECUs?

 I believe that the service Anthony is going to provide is a flash with Rexxer products. So same as the Rexxer unit, but cheaper. I may be wrong, but I don't think so. Maybe Anthony can tell us whare the maps come from.
Protune also has a flash unit (it looks identical to the rexxer) but I believe all it does is upload the map. It seems someone has used the protune on a M1100 here http://www.ducatimonster.org/forums/tech/198280-review-protune-powermap-siemens-ecu.html (http://www.ducatimonster.org/forums/tech/198280-review-protune-powermap-siemens-ecu.html)

I've ordered a Rexxer unit with a map with these specs.
Full system + highflow filter
No 02 sensors or flapper valve
Raised rev limit (to safe range)

I will post when I  Install

I ordered a 696 ECU from fleabay so that I can have it flashed by Desmoworks, but before I have it flashed I am thinking about opening it up to see what type of chip it uses. I'm wondering if it's possible to install 2 chips with different tunes, operated by a switch, or if it's possible to make a copy of the chip used? If so, we could copy DP chip's & do flashes for cheap. No idea what the inside of these look like, so I'll see in a week or two whenever I get the one I ordered.

Some options out there.

Monster 696                  
ECU   Stock   DP            
Exhaust   Stock   Open   Open w/DB   Short      
O2   Yes   No            
Air Filter   Stock   FreeFlow   Pod         

Monster 1100                  
ECU   Stock   DP   DP Full         
Exhaust   Stock   Open   Open w/DB   Short   Full   Full w/DB
O2   Yes   No            
Air Filter   Stock   FreeFlow   Pod         

Forgive me for my ignorance,
Im trying to rap my head around all of this reflashing or PCV and the like, and from all that i have read on the topic and the dyno results that i see the gain doesnt seem significant to me. At best i keep reading the driveability of the bike is improved with no significant power gain.

I clearly dont have a good understanding of it all.

I got Ryans Rodan underseat exhaust and i keep saying to myself i need to get a PCV with a custom map but im freakin confused with all these options. Why disable the 02s? arent they there for a reason?

I clearly dont have a good understanding of it all.

I guess ill just wait and see what everybody else does and hopefully someone will clarify which is the way to go.

I clearly dont have a good understanding of it all.

The o2 sensors are there to manage the closed loop operation of the tables. This part of the tune map is designed primarily to pass emissions and liet the bike run decently. Removing these can allow greater tune ability in the lower part of the map that would normally be closed loop operated, and there is potentially more power to be made overalll. The ecu itself won't make huge gains in power,but combined with a good intake setup like the wasp kit, and a good pipe setup  the ecu will be more valuable and allow more power to be extracted. The pcv is piggy back unit that offeres some extra control that the stock dp ecu fails to provide.

I'm planning to start work on creating a fully tunable solution. My solution, if feasible would be a standalone setup - reFlashable ecu's with custom tunes for very fair prices. I am not skilled enough to create the necessary software, or decode the siemens/ducati software, but I hope that  have the righttools to at least extract the oem software which is what will dictate whether I cam do this, or just how much I might have to farm out. I've tuned several cars using diy ecu's and software, so I'm confident that we can get some great tunes if we can figure out the software. I have a few contacts I can try to reach out to for some help with the decoding, getting a gui based tuning software, etc

No promises, but thats my goal cheap tunes for all. Forgive any typos, I just took an ambien and am off to bed.

Brad Black explains open/closed loop and the function of your O2 sensors nicely here >> http://www.bikeboy.org/open_closed_loop_efi.html (http://www.bikeboy.org/open_closed_loop_efi.html)

Thanks for the responses

I'm pretty well convinced that is about all you're going to get out of a PCV.
I'm not minimizing the importance of driveability *at all*.
IMO, it's 10X more important than peak power.

Way back when, I put a PCIII on my S4, and got it dyno-tuned.
It definitely ran better, driveability was definitely improved.

Curious part was the two power curves, showing a bit more power after the dyno-tune.
There were several spots where the before/after A/F curves crossed, yet the 'after' made more power at those spots...

I wouldn't mind a ECU map with no 02s, no immobilizer, setup for wasps, full system (or probably soon to be boomtubes s2), and race cams

Nice.  But how?  In Europe its possible to visit one of Rexxer's Dyno centres where they can write a custom ECU map.  Lets send Raux.  The ECU relfashing options currently available to the rest of us are more basic in nature.  At this stage I'm intending* (I cant beleive I'm really writing this) to have my ECU reflashed either by sending it to desmoworks or by using the rexxer box myself to remove the o2 inputs.  The rest I'll do via the PC5. 

*ungeheuer intentions are subject to change without notice  ;)

hmmm test bunny.. great... but i have only a 696. guess the group will have to get together and buy me an 1100

Hi there TB  ;D

Scheißegal 696 or 1100, this thread is about our Siemens ECUs and you do have one of those dont you?  So for you its possible to skip the whole PC5 process by dragging your arse (and 696) to any one of eight German Rexxer dynotuning centres.  >> http://www.rexxer.eu/e_kontakt.html (http://www.rexxer.eu/e_kontakt.html)  << What are you waiting for?  ;D

ok hmmmm

Ducati Saarland.. been to their shop.

Guess I could work something up.

I have a stock ECU to play with. I could get that one done and sell off the DP ECU and PC V I have.

My options seem to be these:
Have ECU reflashed to remove o2 inputs
Have my PC5 custom Dyno mapped to handle fuelling throughout.

Seems like you have the additional possibility to skip the PC5 and go direct to having your ECU custom Dyno mapped at a Rexxer tuning centre (I didnt see Duc Saarland in their list though).  But I didnt realise that you already have your PC5.  Guess it depends what you can get for your PC5 vs what the custom Rexxer ECU tune would cost over just a standard reflash to remove o2 inputs + dynotune for the PC5.

OK I got a little more info of how the maps are developed for Rexxer.  This is from Joe at Spareshack.com

With regards to the maps. All the Zard maps are made by Zard in house as they have bought the RexXer professional and tuning software package. They are starting to see some really impressive results (triumph Bonneville with zard silencers, modified airbox and rexXer tune is giving an increase of 13bhp!!!). Quat D also have the full tuning package and create maps in house for all of their relevant exhausts. RexX work closely with Fabrizio Richardi (Ducati Xerox technician and the developer of the RexXer) producing custom maps for customers and dealers alike. The maps for the Termigoni systems are the dp maps taken as a baseline and then modified in house.

yeah i had the PC V shipped out to me last week.

Figured I would need it for sure when I change over to the 1100 cams and the port/polish. AND eventually the airbox change.

 Greetings lads,
Firstly thanks to Ung for all of his shenanigans and the entertainment thus far....been enjoyable following your adventures with your bike amigo. Also thanks for this very relevant post.
I am a fellow M1100 owner, although it is a bit beaten up at the moment having parked it into the back of a land cruiser that pulled out in front of me in Dubai. Will share the resurrection with you all at a later date...another story...
M1100 Siemens ecu.... whilst I don’t claim to be completely up to speed with these particular systems I have had extensive experience in tuning 2 valve air cooled motors (Porsche) for endurance racing. My experience is primarily with Autronic and Motec systems. Most of these systems were not using O2 sensors as they can be fragile in a race environment. my first comment would be that no 2 engines are alike and there is always something to gain with independent tunes, and there is nothing better than a single ECU directly controlling all the functions, especially as most engines (I would be surprised if the 1100 is any different) all benefit from individual cylinder tuning due to different head and barrel temps, sensitivities to detonation, benefits from exhaust scavenging etc. The tune is an all encompassing event, Cams, throttles and ecu all need to be in sync, exhaust temps should be typical. Now before deciding if the O2 sensors are to be removed it would be prudent to understand all of the inputs the ECU is dependent on for mapping to try and understand how dependant it is in them...does it have barometric compensation? Head temp inputs? Air temp inputs, knock sensor inputs etc...Believe it or not as I haven’t had the time to have a good look at the ecu, I don’t know the answers to these things, assuming it does, if the factory ECU can be unlocked successfully and ALL parameters accessed there is a lot of promise in the factory system. Tuning it to perfection can be something else considering there is as much to gain from spark tuning as there is from fuel mapping. In Dubai I managed to hit a car whilst trying to watch the road...god knows how many camels I would collect if trying to watch a lambda whilst on wide open throttle runs! I expect I might be trying to ride beyond my abilities.
Anyway, as I have a new exhaust coming (last one a bit dinged up) and a new dash (last one still embedded in the land cruiser MF!!! and from what I have read here the immobilizer will now be a problem also) I am in the same boat as you guys....need to find the right solution to the computer problem... Now I have an Iranian guy that works for me that seems to be able to crack anything....I am curious whether he could crack the Siemens...has anyone here ever seen the maps or have a clear understanding of the different tiers and options for tune ability? Coms port pin outs etc?

All the best to you all

has anyone opened up a monster ecu? pics?

You are correct  [thumbsup].  I've received information which confirms that the Desmoworks reflashing service is using Rexxer equipment/mapping.

Desmoworks are also listed on Rexxer's website as the only "Rexxer Point" in the USA.  

But I'm still wondering why I think its gonna be more fun to spend $175 more to own a Rexxer unit to reflash my ECU than to send it to Anthony to reflash it.  Doesnt make sense.  

I'm glad somebody other than me has got some entertainment from my "shenanigans" around here.  Good word for it that.  Shenanigans  [laugh] [thumbsup] 

The shenanigans continues.....  ;D

i think the key to owning your own is being able to use it again. ie, if you put the stock map back on, it reloads it. NOW, if you can change the map and then put it on, test it, put it back to stock, change it, put it on... etc...

that rexxer would have to answer i bet.

Raux, I've bombarded Christian at Rexxer HQ in Rüsselsheim with emails in recent days.  He has been fabulously patient with me and very forthcoming with valuable info.

Here's how the Rexxer User version works:
It comes loaded with a "tuning" map as per your predetermined requirements.
Before uploading this tuning map to your ECU the original ECU mapping is downloaded and saved to the Rexxer device.
You then upload your tuning map to your ECU - at which point the Rexxer unit becomes "locked" for further ECU tuning. (At the same time that this feature is locked, the additional features such as error code resetting, service interval resetting etc.... then - and only then - become unlocked).
If you later choose to upload the original stock mapping back to your ECU, the Rexxer unit then "unlocks" and can be reloaded with some other different "tuning" map - which Rexxer can email to you for a fee. You cant edit the maps yourself, unless you buy their editing software at great expense.

well that sucks

whole point would be to develop your own custom map.

You can.  You'll be needing the Rexxer Professional unit and the Rexxer Map Editor software, yours for a combined total of just EUR 5000  :o.

Thats why I'll be keeping the PCV  ;)

Soooo... my plan at this stage looks like this:  Buy the Rexxer User unit loaded with a basic M1100 DP Full System Racing EVO ECU cloned map, but modified to delete the o2 sensors.  And have my PCV continue to do its good work, but with the dynamic mapping assistance of a dual autotune setup.... There, I said it out loud.  And you think you're the TB  [laugh]...

would it be cheaper if they just took out the o2 and didn't load a map?

If you take out the o2 sensors you have to modify the map. The lower part of the map is controlled by the o2 sensors.

With that said (and all the rest) I'm a bit lost the Rexxer ala desmo works comes with a pre loaded map that can not be tuned (unless you or your tuning guy has the 5K Rexxer components) If that's correct it really doesn't seem much better then the DP ECU except cheaper. Pro Tune is supposed to have a way to change the mapping and an email I received from Moto Wheels says this will cost about 675.00 which seems steep but if it allows full re-mapping with the stock ecu then it's a good deal as re flash or PCV would not be needed but as of today it's no more than vaporware because until I see it on a bike working I say it doesn't exist. I also talked with the guys at Factory Pro yesterday they use Pro Tune and they have had a 695 for 2 weeks the Pro Tune guys can't even get right so it's wait and see for the 696/1100 and Pro Tune. The PCV from what I've heard can not change the A/F ratio below 5.5K RPM's but from what I hear the optimizers that come with it deal with the low RPM range pretty good. I have never seen a really good power curve from the PCV auto tune system as compared to what a good dyno tune will do. Do you think with a DP map ala Rexxer PCV will allow tuning below 5.5K RPM's ? Has Rexxer confirmed there re-flash can be tweaked to work with out the 02 sensors ? And since they have a "locked" ecu I'm thinking the PCV will only be able to change the outer edges of the map parameters hopefully that will be enough to get what your looking for. I'd like to be able to take the bike to a good tuner and have them custom map it with no compromise but at this time that's impossible. So I guess my options are a PCV about $350.00 or a re-flash around $300.00 and again I don't know of any re-flash that has been done, are the re-flashes still just vaporware in the US ? If that's the case then were right back to a DP ECU or a PCV. (All this started for me when I bought Leo Vinces slip ons for my GF 696 last xmas. FAAAAAAAACK.) I hope this nut gets cracked soon & good luck with your choices I'm going to wait & see if your configuration allows enough re-mapping through out the entire RPM range if so I'll probably go that route. The one other thing is if the re-flash ups the RPM limiter on the 696 not sure if thats an issue on the 1100. Thanks for posting up all your info. 

Raux, DucNaked is 100% correct.  Deleting the o2 sensors from the mapping IS modifying the mapping - its modifying the mapping to seek no input from the o2 sensors, requiring a re-write in the lower range.

Pay attention Link ;). Mate, look back a few posts and you'll see this >>Let me see if I can clarify.  AFAIK the Rexxer and the Pro Tune units works in exactly the same way. The units can be pre-loaded with whatever ECU remapping you wish, so its theoretically possible to have your ECU mapped in such a way as to not need a PCV or any other "piggy-back" device.  This presumes (and this is no different with PCV) that Rexxer/ProTune has a map already created for your bike's engine mods.  Once done though, for the initial entry price, you can not re-edit this new custom mapping (and I believe, but am willing to be corrected, that this too is the deal with the $675 ProTune device. Except that once you've used your ProTune to upload your ECU map it has no further functionality - such as Rexxers error code resetting etc....  So to me ProTune @ $675 seems to offer less than the $475 Rexxer.  Or have I misunderstood something???

This is true.  Thats why you need to reflash your ECU to remove the o2 sensors and the closed loop mapping area so that you can then use your PCV to map over the entire range.

Yes.

Locked ECU?  The ECU cant be re-edited.  Its the Rexer unit which become locked post the upload of your chosen "tuning" map.  However, once the closed loop is deleted from your ECU's mapping then you can modify air/fuel over the entire range with your PCV.

Christian at Rexxer was quite keen to write me a custom map to suit my WASP intake with Termi exhaust setup.  But I already know that my WASP developed PCV mapping works quite well with the DP ECU, so I'm going to stick to that formula. I asked Christian to just Rexxer me up with ECU mapping which clones the DP Termi full system map, excepting that the o2s are deleted and the rev limit is raised slightly.  The fine tuning I'll then do with the PCV that I already own, and (if I can get it right) with dual Autotune.

imho peak HP is all about dick swinging

riding a twin its all about the midrange

important things are where it makes good power and how quick it does

the graph you often dont see is power over time

to me everything rides on the tq curve. the sooner it comes on high and stays there, ie a flat curve, the better.

so all these tunes should be shooting for the highest flattest torque curve.

Maybe it helps to make things more clear for each of us if we take a look at my options:

Option A: Do nothing more.  So, leave my DP "racing EVO" ECU stock, leaving the Lambdas with Powercommander o2 optimisers to continue to manage in the closed loop.  Run with the WASP created "off-the-peg" PCV mapping.  The bike runs well like this (although I dont KNOW for sure exactly how well the WASP PCV mapping is matched to my particular setup).  For that I'd need to go to Option B.

Option B: (Now abandoned) Was to leave my DP "racing EVO" ECU stock, leaving the Lambdas with Powercommander o2 optimisers to continue to manage in the closed loop. And put my bike over a Dyno to create PCV custom mapping for the open loop area.

Option C: Reflash ECU to remove o2 inputs thus deleting the closed loop.  Dump redundant stock o2 sensors and "optimisers".  And put my bike over a Dyno to create PCV custom mapping over the ENTIRE range.

Option D: Reflash ECU to remove o2 inputs thus deleting the closed loop.  Dump redundant stock o2 sensors and "optimisers". Figure out how to adapt the PCV dual wideband o2 Autotune option (version AT-100) to build dynamic custom mapping.... over the entire range.

Option E: Reflash ECU with Rexxer-written custom tuning map, based on their best estimate of whats needed to fuel my WASP intake mod and Termi exhaust combo.  Dump redundant stock o2 sensors and "optimisers".  Dump PCV. A tidy solution, but no way to measure the outcome without visiting a Dyno.  And then - unless Rexxer hit it perfect first time - I'd need to go back to Rexxer to ask for ECU mapping to be modified based on Dyno results.  Could take several Dyno visits/Rexxer remapping to get it just right.

Not available to me, but for those who live in Europe there's also another option:

Option F: Visit a Rexxer Tuning Centre and have them reflash the ECU with a custom tuning map created using their Map Editor software based on their Dyno results for your bike.  This IMO would be the best option of all, after all what you would end up with is an open loop ECU mapped for optimum performance for your setup.  No "piggy-back" PCV.... No o2 sensors...  

This process is not that different to the PCV tuning session you'd get at your Dynojet centre EXCEPT that Rexxer are "tuning" the ECU mapping directly, rather than modifying the ECU mapping though an "add-on" unit.

Seems that for me the most sensible options are either Option A (after all its already fabulously better than stock)..... or to go to the next level, Option C.  But being sensible is not always what motivates me.  I wanna know if I can make the Autotune setup work, I like the tune-it-as-you go, user-inclusive modability this seems to offer. I believe it can be done and so its as much about the process of finding out how as the end result.  I know.  I'm my own worst enemy  [evil].

Whilst more of both is always nice, I'm not chasing peak HP.... or max torque... or any big raw number.  I just want to acheive the best overall result for my particular setup. The gain will be most likey in the how it does what it does rather than doing any more of anything I suspect.

Option G

work with Rexxer to establish a local shop that can work with their HQ to develop the Australian market :)

Well for me that would be perfect and whilst for an existing Dynoshop the AU$7000+ initial investment isnt astronomical..... the market Down Here is but a small one.  So I cant see it happening anytime soon.  

Listing those options wasnt intended just to illustrate whats available to me, but hopefully to make clearer the possibilities for us all by.... making an example of myself  [laugh].

Just ordered my Protune Remap kit from Motowheels!  They just got them in stock for the 696's.  A little FYI if anyone has been looking for them.  Up until now I think the only way you could get one was to order it directly from Protune in italy.  I'll post more once I get it and install it.  [thumbsup]

Thread bookmarked...:)

(http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/ac51/rllout/trip063.jpg)
Now if I only read German  [popcorn]

Details on which stage reflash you went with?


Let us know how this goes. I have yet to pull the trigger on desmoworks/motowheels protune/ rexxer...

Just curious on why you went with the Protune unit vs Rexxer. It seems you pay a premium for the Protune that offers less features than the Rexxer.

I went with the stage 5, which is "race" slip-ons and filter.  From what they say it is equivalent to dp ecu but with smoother low rpm.  O2's are disconnected.  It will arrive on the 16th, so hopefully I'll have an update that night [moto].  Honestly, I went with the protune vice rexxer simply because I wasn't having any luck figuring out how to get one in the us and couldn't read German. I know desmoworks is offering to flash your current ecu with their rexxer, but I wanted the hardware myself. 

Ich bin deselbe meinung.  Sooooo.. are you having fun yet?   [laugh] [bang]

Nein!!!!!!!!!  [bang]

Ich auch nischts.  Schlaff zeit hier, Guten Nacht.

Did you get the stock file to load?

You smashing your head into a brick wall is quite discouraging for someone else considering the same option..

You should write a guide/instructions once you figure it out. I'm sure it would help plenty of people (me).  [thumbsup]

I see the pic you posted. Do you have the Rexer User and can't get it to work ? I'm asking because I've been emailing Christain at Intermot and He's been very helpful reads and writes english very well. If you need his email address let me know. I'm about to pull the trigger on the Rexxer User unit but if you can't get it to work I'd like to know. Christain makes it sound very simple to use there unit and from his emails it seesm like you get the most bang for the buck with Rexxer Unit. I hope it's not to good to be true.
 Thanks

Link, both DucNaked and myself have the Rexxer User unit.  At this stage.... there are problems.  We're already in contact with Christian who - as you say - is extremely helpfull and I have no doubt that he'll do whatever it takes to resolve the current issues.  BUT...  at this stage I would hold off buying the Rexxer until we have a resolution.  Feel free to mention  "ungeheuer in Australia" to Christian.... He's well aware of the issues we're experiencing and that we're awaiting ... satisfactory outcomes.....

On the surface it does seem like the Rexxer unit offers most features for the $$, yup.  Over and above just reflashing your ECU, Rexxer promises the following:
1) Automatic Stock ECU back-up.
2) Error code diagnostic/resetting function.
3) Service light reset function.
Whereas ProTune we know is just a reflash tool, with none of the additional functionality listed above.

But thus far we have learned that the Rexxer Unit will NOT - despite their earlier assertions - back up the ECU's original mapping before uploading the tuning map reflash.  

Exactly as was reported of the ProTune unit on TOB.  

Christian resolved this issue by sending me a copy of the stock ECU map to keep as backup.  But.... as I said above, currently there are issues preventing all this from working as it should.

Christian and Rexxer are preparing to exhibit at the Intermot show in Cologne early next month and so I'm sure they'll be keen to have all the current issues resolved prior to then.

You might like to let him know that you're eagerly awaiting the outcome before you buy  :).  A little pre-sales pressure goes a long way  ;).

DN and myself will keep y'all posted.

[popcorn]

+1 on everything ungeheuer said

I believe that ung and I are the first to try the Rexxer on the m1100 and there are still some bugs to work out. Our bikes aren't excepting the tuned map, but we are able to reload the stock map on the unit and flash our ECU back to stock.

 Christian seems like a first rate guy, and replied very quickly to my problem. I believe in the end I will be satisfied with this product. Hopefully some good news to report next week.

I'll try to make it up to Intermot and talk to the guy.

That would be great  [thumbsup].  But since Intermot is still almost a month away, I'm somewhat hopeful that we'll have all this sorted prior to that.  Gotta love this network we have here  [thumbsup].

Thanks for clearing that up, I will send an email to Christain and drop your name not to put him on the spot but just to let em know I'll be waiting for "bugs" to be worked out prior to buying one. It must be frustrating if the the ECU isn't excepting the tuned map that's the main and only reason to have one of those units. I picked up a stock ECU on ebay for real cheap and I'll keep the original ecu stock and have the ebay ecu to play with so it really wouldn't matter to me if the Rexxer stored the stock map or not. It seems strange that they would release them with such major flaws. Oh well at least there trying. And big props to you & DucNaked for all your work time & money you've been putting into this and sharing it. 

Gentlemen we have lift off  [popcorn](http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/ac51/rllout/rexxer010.jpg)

(http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/ac51/rllout/rexxer011.jpg)

OHH SHIT. liftoff indeed. UPDATES don't tease! Was it successful? rpm limit increased?? bike runs properly??
 [popcorn] [popcorn]

yes,yes,and yes

still have to talk to ung. about a few things.  [coffee]

lift off nothing i got a funny in my pants.

talk about what?? you guys are going back and forth in german!! we all need to be in on the conversation!!

interesting

it's, ALIVE!

This is what I'll say for now.
The flash process was under five minutes. The map that I'm currently running removes the 02 sensor and the flapper valve. I have to say the map is pretty good. Removing the closed loop portion of the map and fattening it up has completely changed the bike in the lower rpm range. No more lurching or jerking down low. I now have nice smooth acceleration through the whole rpm range (which has also been raise).
 More to come. I'm waiting on a couple of answers to questions I have before I give a full review.

Good news DN  [thumbsup]

But shit.  I'm stuck here at work....  I wanna go home and play ECU flashing... 

Is it time yet?





What about now?

How bout now???

Yup, now's good  ;D

Closed loop? What closed loop?  8).  Christian at Rexxer sorted out the initial problem very quickly - I'm very impressed with his willingness to jump right in and get things sorted...... oh, and with his ability to withstand the gazillion emails going back and forth between me, him and DN.  

So this Rexxer thing?  Once we got the bug out of the system..... (I'm sure Christian has it sorted now for all future Siemens application Rexxers too  ;)).....  it really is plug-n-play.... it reflashed my ECU in just a few minutes.....  it allowed me to read and reset error codes....  seems it all works very well  [thumbsup].

My reflashed ECU now runs modified DP mapping - its a clone of the DP "racing EVO" ECU which is supplied with the Termi Full System exhaust, but with the o2s deleted and rev limit bumped to 9500rpm.  Oh and most importantly of all.... it now scrolls....  

 
....on the display at start-up  8) [laugh].

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4151/4991897114_8964d944af.jpg)

See you in the PCV/Autotune thread for Part 2  [evil]

So can we agree to give this product two thumbs up?   [thumbsup]  [thumbsup]

SWEEEEET

(says me)

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

(says my credit card

Christian is the man! Can't say enough good things about the guy.

I've sent him a link to this thread and I hope he stops bye. I have a feeling he's going to sell  a lot of these units and flashes.

I wish everyone provided the costumer service this guy does!  [thumbsup]

when purchasing a unit, you specify the tune, and the features?

Just checking, as this may be on the list of things to do before going to dyno the PCV when the waspworks kits come out.

Must get rid of stupid immobilizer, and 02 sesnors.  Proper map across the board. 

And a personalized startup doesn't look too bad either!

Yup, it's that easy.  ;D Just tell them your set up and what you want done.
The personalized start up is  [bacon] You can get up to 15 standard characters.
I got DUCNAKED M1100S  [moto]

hey ungeheuer,

here's the real question.
could you take your future PC V map, and add it to the dp map via Rexxer and eliminate the PC V?

Do I set this at the time of flash or do I tell rexxer what message I want prior to receiving the product?





Just wanted to say THANK YOU do DN and Ung for taking a leap and being our test pilots for the rexxer unit. You guys are great!! I'll be ordering as soon as I get my bike back. My wallet however, does not approve.

Seriously though, you guys are awesome!  [thumbsup]

No is the short answer. 

As far as mapping goes, the Rexxer device comes with a new tuning map (to your specifications) and thats that.  No GUI interface a la Powercommander from where you can manipulate the map. 

I did run that possibility by Christian right at the outset.  Although I'm sure he can build you a Rexxer loadable ECU map with the same characteristics.... how to determine would be the issue.  Christian told me that having access to my PCV mapping wouldnt help him arrive at a result.  Nonetheless, he was very keen to write me custom mapping for my WASP intake w/ Termi Full exhaust combo.  So arriving at the desired end result is entirely do-able without PCV.  Thats the main advantage >> go directly to your desired outcome,  but as we discussed earlier the problem is that outside of Europe you got no way of measuring and/or fine tuning the Rexxer setup.  Its "suck-it-and-see".  At least with my PCV hanging off it, I can custom tune my piggy-back solution at my local Dyno.  Or not  [evil].

But your theory is sound.

Ung/DN

Would you recommend working through spareshack or directly with Christian at rexxer hq?

You specify all your requirements - including any custom "welcome" message - ahead of your order.  I just sent Christian an email.

I'll let DN speak for Spareshack, but with the great service we got from Chris I'd buy directly from him again anytime. There was a problem, it wasnt fun, the man got us the solution in lightening fast time and always in good humour despite the heat.  Sounds like I'm onboard with Rexxer here I know, but its not so.  Credit where its due is all.  My vote: Go direct to the source.

Sent you a PM.

I agree with ung, go with Christian. Although SpareShack is where I ordered it from all my support came from Christian. If I'd known how good his English was I would have bought from him. Also there is no price difference.

I just put up a little write up in Tutorial. Nothing much, but it might help someone.  ;D
http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=42608.0 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=42608.0)

Well, I'm "all in " as they say. I just made my order for the Rexxer User through Christain. I will be the 1st guy in US to use it on the 696. I'm getting 2 maps one for slip on's, free flow air filter with 02 sensors & 10K RPM rev limit. One map without O2 sensors installed in case I want to try piggy-back a PCV. So any 696 guys on the fence hang tight & I will post up results. I may even do some before and after Dyno runs just to see the power curve changes. 

You don't need the pcv to run without o2 sensors. I don't have one and I have them removed. I'd just run the "without" map, it makes the bike run so much better below 3000rpms.

Congrats on your purchase! If you have any questions feel free to PM me.

Ok, small update.  I received my Protune today.  Installation was all of about 3 minutes.  Remove the seat, plug it into the small port (DDS?  I can't remember right now), turn ignition on and follow the on screen prompts.  When all said and done, display now reads "Racing 696" so you know it took.  Unfortunately, it was raining tonight (of course), so I didn't really get a chance to put it through it's paces.  I can say that it now starts and idles much much better, and sounds pretty f'n mean idling now!  Quick throttle blips, especially when cold, no longer result in it stumbling.  Just very quick throttle response.  One quick note though; when you get done, it'll be in EU mode instead of USA, so all your measurements will be in kilometers.  To fix that, just hold the 2 position selector switch up, turn the key on, then hold down for 5 seconds.  Display will now read '000000 Pro'.  Move the switch up and release until you scroll through all the zeros and it will read 'Unit set' if I remember correctly.  Hold down until it says ecu, then you can scroll through EU, UK, JAP, and finally USA.  Hope this helps anyone who gets the protune.  I'll update tomorrow evening as I will be riding to work and back. 

Thanks for the info, I'll shoot you PM when I get the Rexxer in my hands I already have a question or 2. It's good to hear that it will run much better below 3K that will make around town traffic much nicer.

Just a note about the ProTune.
I didn't have the issue with the display reading the wrong units. My bike went straight to USA.  Of course, I bought my ProTune directly from the company in Italy.

The dyno results are on a post at the DML, If anyone wants me to, I can also post them here.  Let me know.

I put a link to your post on the DML on the first page of this thread  ;D

I got the Rexxer Unit and installed the new map on the 696 & the results of the reflash are great ! The map is set up for Hi flow filter, slip ons & 02 sensors still installed with a rev limit at 9500 RPM. The bike is a lot smoother at low RPM's you can lug it down to almost 2K and it's still smooth and at 3500-4000 crusing in 3rd is really nice just roll on the throttle and she scoots, there is no noticeable dip in the power band from 3K to 5K (I want to get it on a dyno just to compare maps from the DP ECU to Rexxer) from 5K to 9K the bike pulls much harder then before so I'm thinking there's a torque increase starting at around 5K cracking the throttle from 7K to redline is a LOT more fun then it was and will make passing cars much better. Having the redline at 9.5K makes a big difference (my dash was reads about 9.8K when the rev limiter kicks in) Over all the Rexxer reflash transformed that 696 motor into a nice little power plant, it actually will now power wheelie with very little effort. IMO if you like your 696 your gonna really like it after your reflash. The unit was sold with 2 maps, 1 map installed on unit for instant plug & play the other map was emailed to me but as of now I can't acsess the 2nd map which is set up for complete open loop with no 02 sensors I'm waiting for some help from Christian on this. The only problem I have with the reflash is the dash is now in EU mode. I checked the manual but could not find any way to change it back to USA. Does any one know how I can get the dash back to USA mode ? I saw a post here or on the DML forum on how to change the dash but after searching I can't find the post. Thanks in advance for any help.
 Link

I PMed you how to set to us specs, then if you go back a page obsidian gt also exlpains it. Glad your bike is running well.  [thumbsup]

With your info. I'm back to USA spec. & all is well.
 Thank-you

Damit, I thought after the Ohlins shock and OZ wheels swap out, my major spending was done.  Now you guys are making my wallet start to bother my ass.  Guess I'll have to make it a little thinner again.

The Rexxer unit definitely sounds interesting.  I have a set of the new BoomTubes (series 2) on my M1100, but I have not touched the air box.  I would love to get rid of the low end jerkiness and increase the RPM limit.  Would a Rexxer map accomplish this, something like the slipon map, or would I first need to open up the air box?  I am not looking for more power, just smoothness throughout the RPM range.     

Also, on their website under updates, they claim to have the backup feature working.  Can anyone verify this? 

I have an unresolved issue with my Rexxer reflash.  

My Rexxer reflash deleted the stock closed loop and therefor (in theory) the need for the stock o2 sensors..... but....

Since physically disconnecting and removing my stock o2 sensors I now get the "check engine" light illuminating when I roll off the throttle from above 6000rpm back down into the supposedly deleted closed loop area at 4250>>4000rpm.  Light stays on for around 4 seconds and then goes away.... until the next time I roll right off the gas.  Interestingly this only happens when actually riding, when in gear and on the move.  If I pull the clutch, rev the motor... or in neutral... no light.  I used the Rexxer to retrieve the DTC error codes (so I can confirm that feature functions well).  Both codes - P0133 and P0153 - are defined as "o2 sensor circuit slow response".  And yet the ECU is meant to be flashed to pay no regard to any o2 inputs.....  :-\ .

I emailed Christian @ Rexxer on Monday morning..... and am still waiting to hear if theres a fix  :(.

I was thinking that probably only happens while riding is due to the increase in air pressure but WTF do I know. It may be possible that the reflash has just adjusted the parameters of that circuit instead of deleting it. I know on the Suzuki ECU's that can be tuned with a Teka box that's what happens you just adjust the parameters until you get the desired result never really removing the o2 code but for all intense & purpose it's like deleting it. It still seems odd that you have a code that says slow response on something that is removed from the bike ?? One would think the code would say "no o2 circurt" DuckNaked is also running no 02 sensor map I wonder if he's getting the same code but I don't think he's done the wasp mod or running the PCV and what that would change is beyond me. FYI Christian was out of town all last week His last email to me was He won't be answering any emails until next week. I also have the no o2 sensor map but I can't get it to load from my email to the User Unit so Christian has more than one email waiting for Him. I know He'll get my problem sorted out. Good luck with this & keep us posted.

OH BOY! OH BOY! OH BOY! - I want this!

Yeah but when I last checked with DN, he still has the o2 sensors in place and connected (no "check engine" light on mine when I ran like that either).   It seems to me that when the revs drop back down into the former closed loop area.... the ECU is still waiting to hear.... something...  from the o2 sensors.  And I need the ECU to want nothing from the stock o2s.

 [popcorn]

Jesus you're a pain in the ass  [laugh]
So, on my nice relaxing Sunday I went out and braved the rain, wind, and cold. I unhooked those make the beast with two backsing sensors and went for a test drive!!!!!   [popcorn] [popcorn]

















And the verdict is  [popcorn] Same errors!!
As you said they quickly go away and only occur when you snap the throttle closed. I don't know what to make of it. Hopefuly Christian can shed some light on the subject.

sounds like there's a condition that the computer reads that is seperate of the map.

That's what I'm thinking.

So which is better....

Rexxer or Protune?

Or the same.... ?

Haven't seen you around for a few weeks, vacation?

Both units appear to do the same job, but rexxer is less expensive and offers great customer support from what I have read. Maybe the others can ship in with 1st hand experience.

Not sure but i think as far as how your bike will run there prob. real real close but IMO you get a few more features with the Rexxer one being able to get maps emailed to you and then you download them to the unit & install on your bike which opens up some options that are not avaible with protune refalsh. Two is the unit will read error codes. protune is total plug & play right now and Rexxer still has a few bugs. I weighed cost & features & went Rexxer from what I've read on protune you couldn't go wrong with either.

Thanks for taking the trouble - in the cold and wet an' all - to verify that this issue is not limited to just me.  Next time you're in Australia I owe you  [drink] [beer].

Soon would be good.....  [popcorn]

Yeah I'm counting.  Two weeks now and still no word from Rexxer.  They're busy - I know - busy doing stuff other than resolving my issue. I can wait, but  I just thought I should let you all know that if you have a Rexxer "issue".... dont hold your breath while you wait for resolution to become a priority.

If you make it up to Köln, make sure when you're at  the Rexxer stand to ask in a very loud voice "So...... when your reflash deletes the closed loop... does it completely delete ALL o2 inputs?"  ;D [bang]

Need to hear from a Protune user:  Does Protune really delete the o2 inputs, or like Rexxer is it just faking it?

ok for sure heading to Koln today. Will try to track Cristian down.

I need to speak to him as well. Just done the reflash, the new start-up message is in (although spelt wrongly!), and disconnecting the flapper valve motor doesn't show an error code, however my rev limit is still 8250, it should have been changed to 9500.. :'(

I posted on the other thread.

EPROM tables and EPROM chips, such as the FIM aren't useful on anything made after the 998.  Map ECU's took over.  Your information is great, but the solution isn't viable anymore.

Roger.

You know... I'm just a little disappointed that the back-up response has gone cold at the moment.  I still run with a bug which needs to be ironed out and it would be nice to at least hear that Rexxer are working on it.

Many thanks to Raux for personally bringing the issue to the attention of Marco Daniele at Rexxer's Intermot stand in Cologne  [thumbsup].  I feel confident that now we have the Man Himself involved the issues will become a greater priority and we can once again give the Rexxer product and their customer support the  [thumbsup].

Cheers Raux - good work mate  [beer].

Glad all this was brought out BEFORE I ordered one; so now it's

 [popcorn] [wine] [drink]

Agreed, let those with the disposable funds blaze the trail.

And Ung's an aussi so he's probably good with a machete.  ;) Wild kangaroos and all...

When I get my map corrected & reflash, is there an easy way of telling if the closed loop section has been deleted?

Unplug the 02 Sensors.  If there's no errors it should be deleted. 

Did Rexxer raise the price?  I'm seeing it for 449 EU ($675 USD)!

Nope - same price.  But the US$ has deteriorated in value significantly recently.

I know the US$ exchange rate is bad at the moment (from a US buyer's point of view) but I'm calculating 449 Euro at around US$630.  That price includes German sales taxes which if you're outside of Europe you dont pay - so price without tax is around 380 Euro.... or around US$530 at current exchange rates. 

Doh!  Desmworks ECU flashing service is looking more appealing.  That is, unless I can convince myself that the Rexxer is worth the extra $230...

Agreed, I am thinking that US$300 is more appealing...

I bought the Rexxer and with shipping to US it was well under $600.00 US, I guess the dollar is taken a beating again. You will be more than happy with the reflash for 300 it's a great deal & the mapping is fantastic.

The main benefit from here on out to purchasing the Rexxer unit vs getting a reflash,  is that the ReXXer unit offers the ability to reset the service indicator, and pull error codes, both of which are very nice for the garage-mechanic, who does his own servicing, and doesn't feel like always being stared down by the dash wrench.  Whether this is worth the cash difference or not, is up to each individual it looks like

Well its certainly not susceptible to currency fluctuations thats for sure!   Other considerations are these: If you have only the one ECU then you're off the road whilst you send it away for reflashing. And If there was any error or bug in the reflash then you're off the road (a second time) whilst you return the ECU to have it rectified....  It does seem cost effective.... but I'm happier with the convenience of owning the device..... recent customer support failings notwithstanding.

Bringing back from the dead.

First a note. I am not posting this to slander Anthony or pro italia. Honestly, Anthony has been pretty good about responding to my questions and emails and such, so please just take this as me trying to understand what may have happened.

I am going to paste an email that I sent to Anthony the other day. I believe that the email was forwarded to Christian at rexxer for help. Any thoughts or ideas are appreciated. I have 2 ecu's one that came factory installed in the bike, and another that I got used that was tested as good that was reflashed by anthony.



Anthony,

I just did some more testing on the bike, and ultimately reinstalled the oem filter and my stock ecu. 

I first tried turning the key on and off several times, let the bike idle for a few minutes to warm up. During the warm up I tried using the fast idle, and the bike didn't seem to respond to it like normal, it sounds and acted very lean. I rode the bike around the block and it continued to surge. At part throttle the bike ran awful, it would fall flat on it's face and if I gave it a little more throttle it would surge. felt very dangerous because the bike would fall flat on it's face, mid lean this could be very bad. 

Next I swapped the MWR filter for the oem. Same results, although felt a little less lean. Still completely un rideable and the diffence really wasn't that great. 

Last I replaced the ecu with my oem, completely stock, factory ecu. The bike rides normally. I didn't even force the tps to reset when I put the factory ecu back. 

Since the bike runs completely fine with the factory ecu, without me even resetting the tps through the key on / off procedure this seems to indicate to me that something is wrong with the flash. 

Thoughts?

The ECU which you got used: Was it tested as good by you on your bike prior to the reflash?

Yup!

Have you heard back from Anthony or Christian?
I don't see why they wouldn't reflash the ECU. It wouldn't cost them anything and it takes less than a minute to do.
What type of map did you get and with what options?

I haven't heard back from Anthony today, but like I said he's been great so far so not too worried there.

The map was supposed to be for slip ons, MWR filter, removed o2 sensors, and stock rev limit.

Just wanted to update everyone.

Anthony reflashed my ECU 2 weeks ago and sold me an MWR filter to go along with it.

He recommended a flash for me that removed 02 and raised the rpm limit while richening the a/f mix.

He did a PERFECT JOB with choosing the right tune. Bike is running like a dream. I pulled the plugs and they look really healthy. Not white anymore like before the tune.

I bought an ECU off ebay for a $50 a few weeks ago and he flashed that one.

I can't believe I ever waited to get this done, the bike is a completely different animal now.


Thanks Anthony!

Does anyone know if you can re-flash a 696 ECU to run a 1100?  Does the re-flash just change the fuel tables or is it an entire chip re-program.

The reason I ask is its easier to find used 696 ECUs.

Thanks,
Chris

Ask Anthony at Desmoworks.

And then post back with the answer, I would also like to know. ;D

Yes. I have 696 flashed to 1100.  Works with no problems

This is what I am hoping for. A this point I'd bet that a ref lashing of it will solve the problem. I suspect that something just didn't take quite right.

In case anyone else was wondering, the answer I was given is that they are not compatible.

I'm new in this forum. I'm very interested in M3C Siemens ECU.
¿Can anybody send me a file with a M3C mapp? My bike is a Duc 696. ¿Where is a explanation for the extructuration of mapp data?   

You cannot just install the new data into your ECU.

You have to either
1. Mail your ECU to a business that can re-flash and install a new map

or..

2. Buy a hardware unit(Rexxer or Protune) that will reflash and install a new map for you...

Option 1 is cheaper. Option 2 allows you to reflash your ecu more than one time depending on what changes are made to your bike

Hey DoWorkSon.

I am not interested in Reflash me ECU (for the moment). I only want to analyze the data into file mapp. I know that DexXer User almost is necessary to reflash the ECU.

And the best way to fine tune your bikes is on a dyno !

Great thread! Thanks Ung and DN for pioneering the Rexxer trail for the rest of us [beer]

I am leaning towards the more economical Rexxer flash service (not the full user rexxer unit) the options in the states are either Proitalia/Desmoworks or Redline Motorsports from what I understand.  Any others?

Lastly > Are there any Rexxer agents in the states that that have the capability to create custom dyno tuned flashable tunes like there is in Germany?

  [beer] 

Redline in VA have the full RexXer Map-Editor facility.

And for those interested the rest of the Rexxer saga continues in its own thread here  >>  http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=43335.0 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=43335.0)

I see. Without being able to physically get my bike to VA (I'm in CA) I guess that doesn't help me getting a custom dyno tuned flash.  I've emailed Dave at Redline, sounds like they are doing great things there with Siemens + Rexxer. 

First, thanks for all the INFO!

I just purchased and received a Rexxer unit from Dave at Redline. now to go find my stock ECU and see how it goes.

For review I have an 09 M1100s > HMF Slipons > Removed flapper (and solenoid) from stock midpipe (welded up the hole/slot)  > DP Cams > MWR airbox Mod > PC5 > Autotune (dual) > DP air filter > DP "Full" ECU (soon to be replaced by my stock ECU and Rexxer Map)

Scott

Cool  [thumbsup]

Be good if you add to the knowledge in the dedicated Rexxer thread here  >>  http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=43335.90 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=43335.90)

Another option might be www.tuneboy.com.au (http://) (http://) (http://) (http://)

i recall him talking about the siemens ecu's, he also spoke of the panigale but i cant recall if he was still working them out or was actively tuning them. its not listed on his site but im sure his hardware will work with the 1100 if it has the same ecu as the streetfighter, multi or diavel. if its not the same ecu there is a chance as his website doesnt have a complete list of tunes.

he has done the job on my m800 magnetti. A Really good hardworking guy that can be a bit hard to get hold of, email is your best bet.

basically with his gear u will get all the hardware (except wideband sensor) needed to download, log, modify, and flash your ecu as much as you like. he has a lot of tunes already done and many on his website but as said above, dont just look at his website list, he is likely to have more than what is listed. you will need to hook up his gear, get a serial code off your ecu and email it to them, then Emma will send back a software licence to allow your hardware to tune that specific ecu. it will be locked to that one ecu.


im not affiliated at all, but i am a happy customer. and sorry if this has been mentioned before, didnt feel like reading 9 pages of info that dont relate to me  ;D

Or it might not be.

... but his website lists zero Siemens ECU'd Ducatis  :-\.

I believe the current Multi and Diavel run Mitsubishi ECUs.  Streetfighter runs Marelli.  None of the models listed run Siemens AFAIK.

I dont doubt he's a good bloke who does a great job [thumbsup].   But doesnt look like he does anything with Siemens ECUs  :-\.

No worries.  Your post dont relate to this thread.  So its even  ;D ;)

yeah.... you can be like that if you want, read and quote the lines that paint a pretty little picture for you, or you could read the lines you didnt quote and get the full story.


the red being the important parts you left out of your story... i did send him a sms for you and for your information, the siemens ecu is still in the works. so consider this post a heads up then. when he finishes it will be another alternative to tune your bikes with and a great one at that.  :-*

[roll]

I dont have a story to tell.  No line to push.  No "pretty little picture".  Nothing to sell.  I just like dealing in facts.

Posting up about ifs and maybes only adds to confusion.  I felt the need to clarify.

In a thread (which as you said, you didnt bother to read) about tuning Siemens ECUs its nice if the facts relate to that.

If down the track tuneboy does actually have some options for the Siemens crowd please come back and tell us all about it  :).

More options is good [thumbsup] [thumbsup].

Apologies for staying off track, but the mention of TuneBoy  [thumbsdown] brought up bad memories. I bought his product for a Triumph a few years ago and would not buy another from him. Without going through a long discourse, I had every sort of problem imaginable with it. [bang] I accept that these types of programs are finicky and extraneous variables can effect them. What I could not accept was the poor customer service. Don't believe me? Just go to a Triumph forum and read the comments. Initially, most cut him a lot of slack, but the complaints were cumulative and informational. Lucky for the Triumph crowd, a freeware program (TuneEcu) is now available for them that is superior in all aspects compared to TuneBoy. And, funny thing about the freeware, the developer actually provides ongoing support.

On a positive note, I sent a spare ecu for my 2012 1100 EVO to MotoWheels for a reflash.  [thumbsup] I was pleased with the improvements. Certainly not comparable to a dyno tune, but fine for me as I am merely a street rider. I also now have a tiny bit more of underseat space, having been able to remove the exhaust valve servo.

Here, lemme help  >>  http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=60726.0 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=60726.0)

[thumbsup]

Waiting patiently for my ECU and MWR kit to come in the mail  [coffee]

Meanwhile...

(http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/4647/phuppimageupb.jpg)

Dissecting a monster this far is quite a task IMO

So, I just posted another question about this, but I should have read all the way through this thread first.  [bang] I want to get my ECU reflashed after installing my K&N air filter.  I read the post about Redline in VA that has a Rexxer facility.  My parents live somewhat close to that shop, so I could ride down there and get my bike tuned.  When I called, they said they could tune the bike and reflash the ECU for $400 vs. $300 to just send it in for flashing.  They also said it should make a night and day difference to bring it in because they will be able to tune everything the best.

So, I'm wondering, do you guys think it is worth me taking the trip down there in person vs sending my ECU in?  It seems like everyone else has been fine without the in person tune.

If they are talking dyno tune, it would be a bargain.

+1

$400 for custom dynoed reflash?  Yup, I completely agree with oldndumb.

http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=63263.msg1169106#msg1169106 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=63263.msg1169106#msg1169106)

If you take it to Redline, they'll dyno it

Luckily my parents live an hour away from there.  I can either hang out for a few hours or just convince them to pick me up.  So, I'm thinking I will just do this instead of mailing it in.  I'm excited to see the results!

You have no idea how lucky your are that you live that close to RedLine.  As far as I know they are the only dyno tuning Rexxer reflash facility in the USA. The rest of us have to settle with canned Rexxer tunes unless we want to go the whole PCV route. Do it!

I thought getting the ECU reflashed would eliminate the need for a PCV.  If you still would need a PCV to get everything right, then it definitely makes sense to go to the facility and do it in person.  I'm going to have to take off early on a Friday and ride down there.  I will update the thread with my results afterwards. 

Having your ECU reflash properly custom tuned will eliminate the need for a PCV.  Most of us just dont have that option  - in reality adding a PCV is hardly mandatory if the "off the peg" map is a reasonable "fit" - but better is... better  [thumbsup].

  [popcorn]

Can anyone confirm if the Monster DP Race ECU (the one included with the Termignoni exhaust) has disabled closed loop operation?

I read the Superbikes (848/1198) with the DP Race ECU have the O2 sensors disabled already, and I figure it should be the same with the Monsters, specifically my 696.

still closed loop

http://www.ducati.ms/forums/92-hypermotard/117597-one-last-time-pc5-bazzaz-info-needed-hm-evo-1100-a-6.html#post1159887 (http://www.ducati.ms/forums/92-hypermotard/117597-one-last-time-pc5-bazzaz-info-needed-hm-evo-1100-a-6.html#post1159887)

That pretty much summed up what I found and was trying to convey before the other thread was locked. I'm still waiting for my Power Commander kit to arrive, the vendor supposedly is waiting for it to ship from a warehouse.

Reflashing the ECU to eliminate closed loop and then just loading a fixed fuel map (either from Autotune or a dynotune) is certainly one way, but I was wondering how the ECU would adjust for changes in fuel/temperature/pressure without closed loop operation. I could see it using the temperature sensors, a MAP sensor, engine vacuum, and throttle position along with the fuel map to project the correct commanded AFR but it probably won't be as good as a feedback O2 system?

Also that's roughly $900-$1200 right there ($330 PCV, $300 Autotune, $300+ reflash). Protune quoted me $500 USD, MWheels/Rexxer wanted $600 USD for their reflashing units, but some vendors will reflash for $300. Then add in the cost of a dynotune if necessary.

the Rexxer maps are the closest thing to having your bike 'dyno tuned' without it being on a dyno, you can ask them to 'delete' the O2 sensors, but, the mapping if not mistaken[ung correct me], does compensate when the O2 sensors are not "deleted" . . .still at $600.00 for the Rexxer, it the best bang for the buck you can get and you get a nice tool to reset your service wrench ;D

the maps when dyno tuned, the closed loop oporation part of the map, is made in such a way that while creating teh map teh close loop is disabled, this will make teh ECU compensate for the 'higher' VE values . . .

it adjusts the same way it does in the open loop portion of the map, and the same way every open loop ecu works: the environmental sensors.

as to whether or not something is closed loop or open loop it depends on the model and year.  all siemens ecu are closed loop, std or dp.  as are the Mitsubishi ecu in the mts 1200 and diavel.  the marelli ecu depend on model, only 848 is closed loop in dp from memory.

I recall the Siemens ECU using both speed density and alpha-n for our Monster. I assumed the speed density portion would be in the closed loop, utilizing the manifold pressure sensor as well as the throttle (alpha) and engine RPM (N), and that it switches to alpha-N in the open loop portion. I can't see the factory calibration to determine if it actually uses the other sensors (air temp, engine temp) to make fuel corrections or whether it is all speed density.

of course it uses the other sensors.

the speed-density at very low throttle openings, or the n-alpha are the base inputs.  the ambient air temp and press and engine temp are applied as trims to the pulse width as defined by the base inputs.

they are n-alpha in the closed loop area as well.

Not trying to be rude
but if you know how to reprogram ecus then why are you asking questions on this level
if you cant reprogram why try to figure this all out