Siemens ECUs - the reflash/modding possibilities

[ungeheuer]

I thought it was time to have one place for all the Siemens ECU reflash talk.  Feel free to add  

First, a little background of my own: My M1100 is running DP ECU, Termi Full Exhaust system and is kitted out with a WASPworks airbox-be-gone replacement induction kit, which also includes PC5 and 2x O2 "optimizers".  Using WASP's preloaded mapping for Termi slipons + stock headers the bike is running way, way better than stock.... but....  I'd like to remap the PC5 with precise mapping specific to my exact configuration, rather than the off-the-peg mapping developed on an M1100 running stock headers and different DP ECU.  

Soooo... in pursuit of the above, a session was booked with my local Dynotune centre.   Without going into all the tedious details.... I got make the beast with two backsed around   and it wasnt possible to go ahead with my Dynotune today as planned  .   Which led me to begin to reconsider my options and hence this thread.

I had intended to leave the DP "Racing EVO" ECU unmolested and contunue running closed loop with the "optimized" O2 sensors.  However, I'm now wondering if its worth dumping the Lambdas so that when I eventually do get the bike on a Dyno, I can run PC5 mapping throughout the entire range.

To date the options for Siemens ECU reflashing seem be be these:

Anthony of Desmoworks is (or will soon be) offering a send-and-return reflash service, for US$300.   Other than deleting 02 inputs the specifics of the available maps remain unclear (to me). Perhaps Anthony will chime in.

Rexxer offers a variety of reflash units, the most cost effective for a single user comes in at around US$475.  It allows the user to backup the original ECU map, and then reflash with new custom mapping.  Again, details of the available mapping dont seem too clear to me.  Although the do-it-yourself nature of this option is strangely appealing......  More here >> http://www.rexxer.eu/

So, whats the wisdom out there?  Is it really worth going to the trouble, effort and expense to rid myself of the closed loop when the 02 "optimizers" seem to do a pretty good job already?  

Anybody have any better ideas or more information on the reflash options for Siemens ECUs?

[DucNaked]

 I believe that the service Anthony is going to provide is a flash with Rexxer products. So same as the Rexxer unit, but cheaper. I may be wrong, but I don't think so. Maybe Anthony can tell us whare the maps come from.
Protune also has a flash unit (it looks identical to the rexxer) but I believe all it does is upload the map. It seems someone has used the protune on a M1100 here http://www.ducatimonster.org/forums/tech/198280-review-protune-powermap-siemens-ecu.html

I've ordered a Rexxer unit with a map with these specs.
Full system + highflow filter
No 02 sensors or flapper valve
Raised rev limit (to safe range)

I will post when I  Install

[ChrisH]

I ordered a 696 ECU from fleabay so that I can have it flashed by Desmoworks, but before I have it flashed I am thinking about opening it up to see what type of chip it uses. I'm wondering if it's possible to install 2 chips with different tunes, operated by a switch, or if it's possible to make a copy of the chip used? If so, we could copy DP chip's & do flashes for cheap. No idea what the inside of these look like, so I'll see in a week or two whenever I get the one I ordered.

[Raux]

Some options out there.

Monster 696                  
ECU   Stock   DP            
Exhaust   Stock   Open   Open w/DB   Short      
O2   Yes   No            
Air Filter   Stock   FreeFlow   Pod         

Monster 1100                  
ECU   Stock   DP   DP Full         
Exhaust   Stock   Open   Open w/DB   Short   Full   Full w/DB
O2   Yes   No            
Air Filter   Stock   FreeFlow   Pod         

[causeofkaos]

Forgive me for my ignorance,
Im trying to rap my head around all of this reflashing or PCV and the like, and from all that i have read on the topic and the dyno results that i see the gain doesnt seem significant to me. At best i keep reading the driveability of the bike is improved with no significant power gain.

I clearly dont have a good understanding of it all.

I got Ryans Rodan underseat exhaust and i keep saying to myself i need to get a PCV with a custom map but im freakin confused with all these options. Why disable the 02s? arent they there for a reason?

I clearly dont have a good understanding of it all.

I guess ill just wait and see what everybody else does and hopefully someone will clarify which is the way to go.

I clearly dont have a good understanding of it all.

[ChrisH]

The o2 sensors are there to manage the closed loop operation of the tables. This part of the tune map is designed primarily to pass emissions and liet the bike run decently. Removing these can allow greater tune ability in the lower part of the map that would normally be closed loop operated, and there is potentially more power to be made overalll. The ecu itself won't make huge gains in power,but combined with a good intake setup like the wasp kit, and a good pipe setup  the ecu will be more valuable and allow more power to be extracted. The pcv is piggy back unit that offeres some extra control that the stock dp ecu fails to provide.

I'm planning to start work on creating a fully tunable solution. My solution, if feasible would be a standalone setup - reFlashable ecu's with custom tunes for very fair prices. I am not skilled enough to create the necessary software, or decode the siemens/ducati software, but I hope that  have the righttools to at least extract the oem software which is what will dictate whether I cam do this, or just how much I might have to farm out. I've tuned several cars using diy ecu's and software, so I'm confident that we can get some great tunes if we can figure out the software. I have a few contacts I can try to reach out to for some help with the decoding, getting a gui based tuning software, etc

No promises, but thats my goal cheap tunes for all. Forgive any typos, I just took an ambien and am off to bed.

[ungeheuer]

.....I got Ryans Rodan underseat exhaust and i keep saying to myself i need to get a PCV with a custom map but im freakin confused with all these options. Why disable the 02s? arent they there for a reason?....I clearly dont have a good understanding of it all.

Brad Black explains open/closed loop and the function of your O2 sensors nicely here >> http://www.bikeboy.org/open_closed_loop_efi.html

[causeofkaos]

Thanks for the responses

[Speeddog]

~~SNIP~~

At best i keep reading the driveability of the bike is improved with no significant power gain.

~~SNIP~~

I'm pretty well convinced that is about all you're going to get out of a PCV.
I'm not minimizing the importance of driveability *at all*.
IMO, it's 10X more important than peak power.

Way back when, I put a PCIII on my S4, and got it dyno-tuned.
It definitely ran better, driveability was definitely improved.

Curious part was the two power curves, showing a bit more power after the dyno-tune.
There were several spots where the before/after A/F curves crossed, yet the 'after' made more power at those spots...

[mattc7]

Some options out there.

Monster 696                  
ECU   Stock   DP            
Exhaust   Stock   Open   Open w/DB   Short      
O2   Yes   No            
Air Filter   Stock   FreeFlow   Pod         

Monster 1100                  
ECU   Stock   DP   DP Full         
Exhaust   Stock   Open   Open w/DB   Short   Full   Full w/DB
O2   Yes   No            
Air Filter   Stock   FreeFlow   Pod         
dp race cams, no cams

I wouldn't mind a ECU map with no 02s, no immobilizer, setup for wasps, full system (or probably soon to be boomtubes s2), and race cams

[ungeheuer]

I wouldn't mind a ECU map with no 02s, no immobilizer, setup for wasps, full system (or probably soon to be boomtubes s2), and race cams

Nice.  But how?  In Europe its possible to visit one of Rexxer's Dyno centres where they can write a custom ECU map.  Lets send Raux.  The ECU relfashing options currently available to the rest of us are more basic in nature.  At this stage I'm intending* (I cant beleive I'm really writing this) to have my ECU reflashed either by sending it to desmoworks or by using the rexxer box myself to remove the o2 inputs.  The rest I'll do via the PC5. 

*ungeheuer intentions are subject to change without notice 

[Raux]

Nice.  But how?  In Europe its possible to visit one of Rexxer's Dyno centres where they can write a custom ECU map.  Lets send Raux.  The ECU relfashing options currently available to the rest of us are more basic in nature.  At this stage I'm intending* (I cant beleive I'm really writing this) to have my ECU reflashed either by sending it to desmoworks or by using the rexxer box myself to remove the o2 inputs.  The rest I'll do via the PC5. 

*ungeheuer intentions are subject to change without notice 

hmmm test bunny.. great... but i have only a 696. guess the group will have to get together and buy me an 1100

[ungeheuer]

Hi there TB  

Scheißegal 696 or 1100, this thread is about our Siemens ECUs and you do have one of those dont you?  So for you its possible to skip the whole PC5 process by dragging your arse (and 696) to any one of eight German Rexxer dynotuning centres.  >> http://www.rexxer.eu/e_kontakt.html  << What are you waiting for? 

[Raux]

ok hmmmm

Ducati Saarland.. been to their shop.

Guess I could work something up.

I have a stock ECU to play with. I could get that one done and sell off the DP ECU and PC V I have.

[ungeheuer]

My options seem to be these:
Have ECU reflashed to remove o2 inputs
Have my PC5 custom Dyno mapped to handle fuelling throughout.

Seems like you have the additional possibility to skip the PC5 and go direct to having your ECU custom Dyno mapped at a Rexxer tuning centre (I didnt see Duc Saarland in their list though).  But I didnt realise that you already have your PC5.  Guess it depends what you can get for your PC5 vs what the custom Rexxer ECU tune would cost over just a standard reflash to remove o2 inputs + dynotune for the PC5.