So I learned the hard way this afternoon that Woodcraft's Riser clipons will not fit under the triples of pre-'02 Monsters; as you can kinda see in the pic the triple extends out further than the flange on the fork clamp which prevents the riser from bolting on:
(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii181/Staggerlee101/Moto/96af1df3.jpg)
For now, I just slid the forks up an inch and mounted them above the triple; I know it isn't ideal, but it'll have to do for the time being.
So I'm curious; has anybody successfully mounted riser clipons under the triple of an early Monster? Now that this problem has presented itself would appear that my only real option is SpeedyMoto's Tall Boys since they mount a little further to the side. Unfortunately, I may be old & gray before those ever come off of backorder. [bang]
Anybody else see an option that I'm overlooking?
how much rise are you looking for?
tomaselli clip ons clear and have about an inch of rise (about even with the upper triple)
Sorry to hear for your troubles....is it not possible to make a spacer plate to push the woodcraft away from the top triple?
How much rise did you select?
Quote from: xcaptainxbloodx on September 18, 2010, 08:23:05 PM
how much rise are you looking for?
tomaselli clip ons clear and have about an inch of rise (about even with the upper triple)
That you Mark?
These Woodcrafts are a 2" rise, which is about the minimum that I think I'd want to go. In all honesty, mounted above the triple like they are now, the position is perfect. Just a few inches lower than the factory bars and a bit more sweep:
(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii181/Staggerlee101/Moto/e95f9fdd.jpg)
Quote from: graydo on September 19, 2010, 07:23:02 AM
...is it not possible to make a spacer plate to push the woodcraft away from the top triple?
That's an idea that I've considered. The risers bolt to the clamps with a funky flange-type mount:
(http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii181/Staggerlee101/Moto/750d67d6.jpg)
I'm sure a decent machine shop could CNC up a couple spacers that would work, but it would probably end up costing about as much as another set of clipons.
Looking at pics of the CycleCat triple, it would appear that the leading edge is radiused enough to allow the risers to fit; maybe I'll get lucky and find one of those for sale somewhere.
its me indeed.
dont you guys know people at speedymoto? I hear if you know the right folks you can get factory seconds for pretty cheap.
what about a set of tapered drag bars? probably pretty close to the position you want?
(http://www.denniskirk.com/denniskirk/b2c/product_images/5/9/4/600pix/594203.jpg)
I don't, but Matthew knows them all real well. Maybe I should ask him to put a bug in somebody's ear...
I think I'm gonna take one of the clamps/risers up to Paul Brong this week and see what they think (and how much it'll set me back) about machining up a couple of spacers to offset the risers.
I'll certainly be keeping my eyes open for any cyclecat triples that may pop up; I think that would be the best option in the end as it would solve the clearance issue once and for all.
I have a 2000 m750 with clipons below the triple. They are two inch rise Swatt's (now defunt from what i hear) but I needed to make a 15mm spacer with through holes to clear the top triple. It was a huge surprise initially but I lucked out. I attend a tech college so getting some kids in the machine shop to make some new ones was a breeze. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.
Drew
couple options.
i would try giving woodcraft a call, they have great service. you might be suprised, they may even have some kind of spacers designed for your situation.
secondly, as others have mentioned, keep an eye out for a cycle cat triple.
Yep; called Woodcraft this morning. Super nice folks. They seemed genuinely concerned about my fitment issue and thanked me repeatedly for the feedback.
Unfortunately, they have no intentions of manufacturing a spacer to offset the riser. They didn't sound terribly thrilled with the idea of me taking it upon myself to do it either; I guess I can appreciate that.
guys are just worried about your safety [thumbsup].
I know you wanted those clipons a little lower than they are now... are you able to swap sides and turn them upside down? I've heard of a couple folks pulling that off.
Quote from: corey on September 20, 2010, 05:42:19 PM
guys are just worried about your safety [thumbsup].
Yeah, that and the possibility of a wicked huge lawsuit if something broke and I wadded it up.
Quote from: corey on September 20, 2010, 05:42:19 PM
I know you wanted those clipons a little lower than they are now... are you able to swap sides and turn them upside down? I've heard of a couple folks pulling that off.
I tried that; waaaaay too low.
So I think I have it licked. I swung by a machine shop this afternoon to see what he thought about making up a couple of spacers and he assured me it would be no biggie; should have them in hand this week.
I also tracked down a cyclecat triple as an option, but it's for the SBK fork conversion; when I asked the machinist about making up a set of of shims for my 50mm forks, he flat refused to do it - said it was too dicey. Oh well, if I ever do a fork swap, I'll have the correct triple in stock.
why don't you get the zero rise and mount them above the triple?
or... get a new triple?
Quote from: Raux on September 20, 2010, 07:39:55 PM
why don't you get the zero rise and mount them above the triple?
Seconded. Woodcraft zero rise above the triple works very well for me.
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4079/4870555483_f9d1fbe447_z.jpg)
So neither of you see a problem with running around with the forks stuffed up through the triple an inch or more?
Quote from: Staggerlee on September 21, 2010, 05:39:49 AM
So neither of you see a problem with running around with the forks stuffed up through the triple an inch or more?
I'm curious about this as well. Wouldn't this really mess with the geometry?
Quote from: Veloce-Fino on September 21, 2010, 09:08:43 AM
I'm curious about this as well. Wouldn't this really mess with the geometry?
It would certainly have a major effect, greatly quickening steering.
Quote from: howie on September 21, 2010, 09:34:01 AM
It would certainly have a major effect, greatly quickening steering.
No joke. The thing turns-in like it's going out of style. Unfortunately, It's also twitchy as shit; me no likey.
Quote from: howie on September 21, 2010, 09:34:01 AM
It would certainly have a major effect, greatly quickening steering.
Not always a good thing....
Might necessitate a steering damper.
It depends. In my case, my fork legs are longer than stock (from a 998) so the triple isn't dropped very far. When I also take into account less nosedive on account of stiffer fork springs and better damping, it's actually more stable. Still drops into corners nicely, but no sign of headshake.
Also of importance is what you've done at the back. If you've raised the back substantially, then lowering the front is an additional change to geometry. If your rear is at stock height though (or lower), you can tolerate some drop at the front without upsetting the geometry.
An inch of change in your rake is quite a bit of change. On my 999 forks, there are lines at the top for dropping/raising the forks evenly, and the largest increment (all of them together total) is about an inch... so you are looking at probably some pretty quick steering, and a tank slapper in the near future if you're unlucky...
My 999 forks required me to raise them about a half inch in comparison to where my stockers were. It made a large difference in the bikes handling and steering, but is still reasonable and safe. I literally HAD to do it because of the tapering and widening of different sections of the fork body. You'd probably be okay, but if you can get spacers and go that route, I would.
Spacers are a common thing on modified bikes. I've got some on my calipers for christ sake. I think you'll be okay on your handle bars. Make sure you torque everything down evenly, and use some kind of anti sieze on the threads.
2 things I refused to do on my front end; move the forks through the triple to mount clip ons and shim the triple.
I dont think its dangerous. both are do-able, but a hack way of going about it. suspension and controls are two of the most important conditions of any bike and to go futzing around with them in order to make things fit ok just isnt right. take the time to find the RIGHT parts and then mount them appropriately.
the only exception would be like if you do a fork swap and get something longer thats already poking out and you can fudge that a little extra (3/4" say) thats fine, and sometimes will make the bike handle better.
Just a few very rough numbers to clarify.....
If the front is lowered or the rear is raised.....
20mm changes the rake about 1 degree.
.... which is significant. Maybe not radical though.
My FHE/opinion is that Monsters (not 696/1100) benefits from such a geometry change.
Quote from: stopintime on September 21, 2010, 01:03:29 PM
Just a few very rough numbers to clarify.....
If the front is lowered or the rear is raised.....
20mm changes the rake about 1 degree.
.... which is significant. Maybe not radical though.
My FHE/opinion is that Monsters (not 696/1100) benefits from such a geometry change.
+1
Quote from: humorless dp on September 21, 2010, 01:35:24 PM
+1
Interesting. I think I saw somewhere in the archives that you've also cranked up your rear ride height a bit; still have it configured that way?
motowheels has an in house brand of clip on with a removable riser plate specific to mounting on TOP of your triple. The clamp is only 19mm tall. I've had back issues from years of soccer and started with the riser plate in, but as I got used to my bike, I took it out and with them being mounted up top, I'm very comfy!
I have them on a 99 750. I'll throw a pic up tonight when I get in from work.
Quote from: stopintime on September 21, 2010, 01:03:29 PM
Just a few very rough numbers to clarify.....
If the front is lowered or the rear is raised.....
20mm changes the rake about 1 degree.
.... which is significant. Maybe not radical though.
My FHE/opinion is that Monsters (not 696/1100) benefits from such a geometry change.
benefits in what way? how do you "measure" that benefit? a track day before and after or just doing it in the garage and going for a ride (placebo affect?)? are you using a damper with this set up? what did you go through to discover this upgrade?
pardon the questions but its a curious set up.
Quote from: xcaptainxbloodx on September 23, 2010, 09:57:54 PM
benefits in what way? how do you "measure" that benefit? a track day before and after or just doing it in the garage and going for a ride (placebo affect?)? are you using a damper with this set up? what did you go through to discover this upgrade?
pardon the questions but its a curious set up.
Raising rear and/or lowering front decreases front wheel trail, which is a deciding factor for stability. More trail means greater stability, but also makes bikes harder to turn. It's highly individual which way we should choose to go.
I've done 10mm front and about the same rear. (= ~ 1 degree less rake)(still 23 degrees left)
Enough to have a much sharper riding experience.
My suspension is working very well, so I have no need for a damper.
If I had more power, maybe I'd get one to control an airborne front.
Dampers are sometimes used to cover lacking suspension - bad idea.
I mounted my vortex over the clamp and pushed shocks up and I am still here to tell the tale. I feel it had a positive effect and the front feels more planted and secure with more weight over it. Mind you I don't do track days and this is based entirely on my experience of street riding for 5+ years.
Quote from: stopintime on September 24, 2010, 12:14:42 AM
My suspension is working very well, so I have no need for a damper.
If I had more power, maybe I'd get one to control an airborne front.
Dampers are sometimes used to cover lacking suspension - bad idea.
I dont know man, suspension and dampers arent really as connected as many believe. I see a lot of people come into the shop wanting to buy and install dampers on stock (shit), suspension thinking it an upgrade. like you say, a cover up. but i dont think a good, working suspension is not going to do the job of a damper. the cover up works both ways.
pushing your forks through to decrease trail can make your suspension dangerously twitchy (sharper)
if you dont know what you are doing. decreasing trail in conjunction with with a damper would provide that sharper turn in but mellow out the twitch and stop the loathsome tankslapper.
Currently with the spacers out....
(http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll153/vwbluxu2/Misc%20Stuff/brembo2.jpg)
here they were when I had the spacer...
(http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll153/vwbluxu2/Misc%20Stuff/4.jpg)
(http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll153/vwbluxu2/Misc%20Stuff/3.jpg)
I too am here to say, no issues what so ever. its not twitchy. the bike handles quite well.
While the service is less than perfect from motowheels, if you talk to Ed, he seems to be the glimmering light there.
Threadjack/ BlackKat, where did you get the headlight bucket shown with the speedo in it? /end threadjack
(http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll153/vwbluxu2/Misc%20Stuff/brembo2.jpg)
Quote from: BlackKat on September 25, 2010, 04:16:26 AM
While the service is less than perfect from motowheels, if you talk to Ed, he seems to be the glimmering light there.
On the contrary, I think it is among the top in the business. I talk with Ed, Brian, and Martin and think they do a great job.
Also, been there done this with clipons before.
That's why I still sit back in a chair with a cigar once in awhile, and when I'm done complaining about today's youth, musing about the weather, or talking about how I am actually much faster than rossi at some things, I reflect on CycleCat, who made a riser that came out the side, rather than in front of the triple, and did not interfere with any pinch bolts, regardless of orientation.