Ducati Monster Forum

I just fit a set of these on my pod filters.  I haven't tried them in the rain yet, but when I do I'll report back.

(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d147/pompino/5a8f2cc9-1.jpg)

They are ~$13.50 from http://outerwears.com (http://outerwears.com) and come in several colors.  

The red is off half a shade.  ;D

 [cheeky]

Are those just to keep water out, or do they also provide some desirable airflow effects?

I've seen them on the waspworks kit and wondered if they did any dyno runs with lots of air blowing over them, like you'd see at speed.

They keep out water and dirt. 

I rode with them today, and the bike ran the same as it always does.   [evil]

Man... its a tough audience around here  ;)

The WASP filter socks are made by outerwares - I got caught in the piss-pouring rain a while back and they kept the K+Ns nice n dry  [thumbsup]

Cool!!   [moto]

Did you post about these?  I searched here and came up empty.   I've been looking for something like this for a while and learned about them on maximum-suzuki.com

 [beer]

Did I post....?  Only this pic as part of the WASP kit (I didnt actually post about the outerwears)..
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4120/4862594179_043b76a58d_z.jpg)
I also have a red pair (but the red is off half a shade, so I'm running the black ones   :D  ;)).

 [laugh]

I love the look of pod filters on these bikes.  (Yes Nate, I know I have less power now [cheeky] )

I know...It's the look you're after.

Silly kids.  [laugh]

Less power  ???

It's been proven on the dyno that removal of the airbox on a 4V decreases power slightly.

I don't have a number for you.

It's a few horsepower. 

If I were really worried about horsepower, I sure as shit wouldn't be riding this bike or any Ducati for that matter.   ;D

But...but...

how will you 'man' up at Starbucks if your S4R only makes 111 hp?

I see.....   :(   Although I dont understand....   I dont understand how the ability to inhale more air - and if balanced with accompaningly more fuel - how that can decrease power output?  I'm not doubting what you say in any way - never hurts to suck up to the mods  ;) - I just dont understand  :-[ ??? ....

WASP are putting out Dyno charts showing +4hp for their M1100 kit (which I suppose consists of more than just pod filters.....). 

Educate me.

And sorry for the minor thread-jack.... 

M1100 is not a 4V...but I'm skeptical of most hp claims regardless.

On a 4V the airbox tricks the engine into believing the crankcase is larger than it is, because it's connected via the breather...and that has a relationship to hp.

I don't totally understand it either, but the source is irrefutable IMO.

I also don't think pods are very beneficial to 2V monsters...but you know about opinions. ;)

M1100 is not 4v, true enough. But still.... my bubble has been pricked... the seed-pod of doubt sown...  :( 

To avoid further thread-jacking here I'll continue the pod-filter debate over here >>  http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=39529.msg772336#msg772336 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=39529.msg772336#msg772336) <<  and return to topic with this M1100 wearing matching RED outerwear socks...

(http://www.waspworks.com/gallery/supertenere/M1100%20WaspPUK2.jpg)

There are theoretical plusses and minuses for both.

Theoretically an airbox allows for a more constant volume of calm, stable denser air, that in turn should provide for more power in the engine.

HOWEVER, the 2V bikes, more than the 4V bikes, have very tiny airboxes, so the volume is less than the air that can enter from the pods.

ALSO. If you run pd filters without a proper velocity stack, the speed of the air entering is actually slowed, the volume is lower, and the turbulence is higher.

With proper velocity stack (bell-mouth), you get a smoothing effect on the airflow, the air speeding up (kind of like the curvature on an airplane's wing speeds up the air), and a theoretical increase in power.

On 2V from what I've seen (dyno) and experienced (real world), if you go POD filters only, and no stacks/beast kit, you lose power.  We're talking 2-4 hp max.  These is true on the sports, supersports, and monsters (s2r) ---- i haven't had the experience of no airbox on the 1100 yet.  The beast kit, ducshop kit, and from what i hear of the wasp kit, each offer a bellmouth styled stack, which gives them more power. This is much more apparent on bikes such as the hyper, and the s2r, where the airboxes are severely undersized.  On the 1100, it looks like by Wasp's numbers, the effect is alittle smaller, but still should have net gains.

The big thing with the airbox is that it affords the same stable, smooth air at all speeds, where as pods lose that stable air, but given so much more surface area to choose from, air tends to go the way we want it to.

I would suggest that you'ld probably have even better power, with a set of stacks inside the stock airbox, and running tubes or (air runners) from the intakes in the stock airbox, to the front of the bike.  This, if done properly, would probably be the most effective method of increasing velocity, volume and density of the air being taken in, but would probably be alot of work, and look silly.

Go too big with an airbox, or too small, and you lose power. There's so many factors at play, that the physics gets abit overwhelming without being to test every variable.

The pod filters look dope, much cooler than the airbox. Your impression of them, is that they make the bike run better.  It's all likely that it does. 

Wait, scratch this....Ung, it's sapping 85 hp away, you're down to about 10-15. You should just send them to me, to get them as far from you as possible.

 [evil]

Ok so the thread-jack continues.  Dont blame me.  I tried  :).

I hear only what I want to hear... and in that context your answer was much more sensible than DP's  [roll]  ;) [laugh]...

So as the air flow becomes more turbulent and less stable at higher speed..... its a good thing that I've got Autotune adjusting my PC5 on the fly then eh  8).

Does anyone just sell velocity stacks? I've already go pods and fuelling mods...

tpo sells two sets of stacks only.

1 for midrange power, 1 for high end

Tell me again what the benefit of a water repellent sock is over your filter? Water vapor doesn't have a dramatic impact on power unless you're riding in a monsoon and pour your drink in the airbox at the same time...

I don't think I ever told you previously, but they are to protect your engine whilst riding in a hard rain.  No more, no less.

Oh, and pods replace an airbox.

I didn't mean you personally, just in general. That's what I'm asking though, is what are you protecting your engine from? Rain drops won't damage a motor, even if you're in a torrential downpour. Hydrolocking a motor requires a substantial amount of water entering the cylinder, which on a bike is damn near impossible. In fact the only way I know to hydrolock a motorcycle without fording a river is to have a leaking fuel system. Rain drops that even get into a cylinder will be vaporized instantly during combustion. Hell, I used to have a turbo GTI that had water injection to cool the intake air to run more boost and make more power (yes, obviously FI is far different than NA in that regard).

On a dirt bike where you're seeing heavy particulates I can see a pre-filter making sense, but on a street bike I don't "get it" other than they're pretty (and hey, that's totally an arguable reason).

How much rain.

Soaking wet filters don't do their job well.  Moisture dripping into the filter, and into the cylinders when the bike is sitting, also is not good.

They're water repellant, and don't inhibit airflow, seems like a good idea nomatter how you look at it.

It's mostly just another layer of protection...you may not need them, but if t is sensible to have.

About enough to flood the area up to the airbox. As in about three feet + of standing water. To damage a motor from hydrolocking it (the only way water damages a cylinder - vapor actually steam cleans it) you have to take in a pretty substantial amount of water, all at once. Pouring water into an open airbox as long as you don't dump a bucket in, will not actually damage the motor.


A wet filter on a running bike still filters remarkably well, the moisture doesn't alter the size of the filter mesh. The vacuum created by the running motor and the heat of combustion will wick and then evaporate any vapor present very quickly. A wet filter on a sitting bike won't cause much damage either, as the heat of a recently run motor will quickly evaporate almost all the water out of the filter.


I'm not saying it is a bad idea to have extra protection, but my issue lies with whether or not they really offer any more protection other than a slight bit of misplaced peace of mind. It's like avalanche insurance in San Diego. It doesn't really do anything and it costs you money, but gosh darn it... it provides an extra layer of protection "just in case" the laws of physics and thermal dynamics are temporarily suspended.

Prefilters make sense on dirt vehicles, they prevent particulates from caking up the air filter. On a road going bike though I'm just not sold. They look neat though, and if that makes you want to buy them, don't let me hold you back.

Show me  ;D.

Thanks.  We didnt  [thumbsup].

Can do.

Civic Water Steam Cleaning Engine Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tt7IY0keOD0#normal)


Glad to hear it. Everyone's bike is their bike and can do whatever they want to it. Just offering an opposing viewpoint backed up with experience and evidence for those considering the purchase.

Unless you (1) have pod filters on your bike and (2) you ride in the rain a lot, I'm not sure your arguments are convincing.  I for one would like to see you dump a cup of water in your airbox whilst the bike is running.   [coffee]

I've talked to quite a few folks who run pod filters and the unanimous response is that their bikes run poorly in a hard rain.  Since I ride year-round in all sorts of weather, their experiences were enough for me to drop the sum of $30 on the pod filter covers. 

That's the type of feedback I was originally looking for, evidence from an actual rider that has used these before on their own bike that they produce a tangible result. Please don't take my presentation of my experience as anything more than trying to better understand why someone would put these on their bike.

Of course I wouldn't dump a cup of water into my bike for two reasons. One, that is the exact scenario that DOES cause hydrolock, not the trickle that rain causes. Second, no reason to stick my finger in the socket just because I know 110v won't kill me.

I don't have pod filters on my Monster, but I did ride a Sportster with a velocity stack/mesh screen filter for ten years. It went through more rain storms than I care to remember, and the mesh screen wasn't nearly as effective as a modern paper or oiled filter for particulates. When I tore the bike down last the cylinder walls were perfect and it never ran poorly in the rain. Because of that experience I tend to have a hard time buying into filter overkill using the 'it protects the motor' argument. The 'it runs better in the rain' argument is a totally different and completely valid. Also, just so we're clear, I never stated that a bike is going to perform as well with rain coming into the filter as one on a dry day, just simply that it isn't going to damage the motor, and not many people intentionally take the bike out in poor weather conditions. As we all know these aren't exactly BMW adventure tourers.

Hmmm...I always equated "not running well" with "bad for the motor," but I guess that's not necessarily true.

Let me chime in with real world experience. I just rode home 15 minutes ago through moderate thunder showers with a pair of k&n pods on a 695. I can tell you for sure that the engine is not happy with wet air filters. Open the throttle much more than 10% and the motor chokes out and will nearly stall before it is able to catch its breath after the water clears. i don't have to ride in the rain much here in San Diego, but $30 doesn't sound like a bad price to avoid a potentially hazardous situation of the bike stalling in traffic.

[roll]  Not even close.  Show me that "Pouring water into an open airbox.... [of one's Ducati]... will not actually damage the motor".
Show me  ;D.   [popcorn]


...I'm confused....So just to be clear.... dumping a bucket in will damage you motor.... and if dumping in a cup of water will also damage your motor....  how much less than a cup can you "pour into an open airbox" and have it "not actually damage the motor"??  And can you show us you doing this just so we get the right idea  [laugh].

Thanks  [thumbsup]

 [popcorn] [popcorn]

The point is that water from rain will not lock your engine.

Now if you guys left the freakin' airbox alone this whole thread would be moot. ;D

Which would make it like every other thread I start!   :P

You're too modest. ;D

fixed

You're trying to bait me and that's cool I guess but I think it's pretty clear that what I'm saying is that the quantity of water is irrelevant. The rate at which it enters the motor is what matters. Trickle it in and you'll be fine, dump it in and you've got a problem. You strike me as a bright guy so I'm sure you already knew that.

But humorless is right and we're all friends here. Plus this thread has crushed my dreams of pod filters so I hope y'all are happy.

[roll]... I knew that.. sheesh...   [laugh] ;)

Its the bucket and cup pouring thing that I'm concerned about.  Bait you? Moi?? Far from it my fellow DMF friend  :) ;) [thumbsup].  

But is it not our duty to fellow DMFers and visitors alike, to ensure that advice given on a board as highly esteemed as this be accurate  ;D?  I wouldnt want anybody to pour slightly too much water into their motor and have it be ruined.  All we apparently know so far is this:

A bucket of water will ruin your motor.
A cup of water will ruin your motor.
Rain splashes will not ruin your motor.

But then.... ...  and...  Sooooo.... I'm a little confused and just wondering....  as to exactly how much water and exactly how quickly you can pour it into an open airbox.... without sustaining damage? ;)

Cant wait for the show...  ;D   [popcorn]

Try it and let us know ;D... pot stirrer. :-*

Seriously...

as a kid...sometime around the middle ages...

I watched mechanics dribble water directly into carburetors to bust up carbon.

How much?...at least 8 ounces over the course of a few minutes...but they were trying to save the engine not explode it.

I think that same amount of water all at once might do a motor in.

but since Artful's point was rain won't do it...yeah...he embellished a bit...so...

You're both right. [thumbsup]

American water - 1,000,000,000 gallons at a rate of one gallon per cylinder per hour.

To convert that to Australian water just divide by number of gallons into pints of Fosters, so roughly 8,000,000,000 pints of Foster's can be poured into a 695 motor as long as it is the rate of eight pints per cylinder per hour.

My numbers may have a margin of error since the Foster's would be entering the cylinder swirling in the opposite direction.

Aw man this is like today's modern little league where even the fat kid in right field with his finger up his nose gets a trophy.

I can confidently say I put about 100 gallons of water (100 x 8 = 800 pints of Fosters) through a VW motor with no ill effect. Like you said, blasts out carbon with the steam. Lets you run another three pounds of boost too.

 ???

It keeps me from treating you guys like adults.

Otherwise I'd just get bored with the bickering and lock it. ;D

All at once? [evil]

Ever notice how clean a cylinder is that has a coolant leak just into the combustion chamber?

Haha I just ride my bike in crappy weather too often to fiddle with something that makes it potentially run worse in those conditions. They sound and look awesome, just would rather avoid the headaches.

Plus if I bought them I now know I'd have to buy these fishnet jimmy hats for them to ride in the rain, which would indirectly result in me losing this argument. Unpossible.

My first car had a Chrysler 2.2L four banger in it. Ask me anything you wanted to know about blown head gaskets and how sparkly they make a cylinder wall :D

Oh we're not bickering Boss, we're havin an intelijunt deb8 about volume and flow...  [thumbsup]

Gallunz.... Pintos.... Cubic bleedin' yards.... See? This is why we need you to give us a visual demonstration......  of the amount  [bang].  Your quaint ol' measurements mean nothing to we in the Outside World.  How many cups and or buckets is all them gallions of water... is it more than one???




Wait.... a moment....




Did you just say... a [Big Number of litres] of Foster's Lager... can be poured into a 695 motor???  :o :o  Are you make the beast with two backsING SHITTING ME???  :o :o  

Man I wouldnt even pour that shit down the bell mouth of a Harley!!!   That's some sick, cruel and seriously unusual punishment you got going there matey  [puke]....

Fosters...... :-[

Sick bastard  [laugh] [laugh] [thumbsup]