I thought trains were supposed to be a cheaper way to travel. Although I am excited at the prospect of riding a train, I did the math, and it is the most expensive way to go. The trip is from Visalia CA, to Turlock CA, roughly 130 miles.
Its about a 2 hour drive and in monstergf's car (which I cant take because of her needing it)
29 mpg
20.17 in fuel cost @ 4.50 a gallon
Train is a 30 min bus ride (ick) and a 2 hour train ride
24.00 one way
or theres this option ...........
3 hours
125 vino
$13.50 @ 4.50 a gallon, scooter maddness [evil]
http://www.mapquest.com/mq/7-7WsmtAL3
scooter
vino
scooter+vino. nothing wrong with a little wine with your scoot.
(only kidding, don't get mad)
most of the time
trains are used to go farther than 130 miles
Quote from: Mother on June 10, 2008, 11:56:20 AM
most of the time
trains are used to go farther than 130 miles
Seriously. That's less than two days commute.
Make her take vino, usurp the car. ;D
Quote from: Gearhead_42 on June 10, 2008, 12:07:14 PM
Seriously. That's less than two days commute.
Make her take vino, usurp the car. ;D
?
that is less than a half day commute
that is like a 3 hour commute
Quote from: Gearhead_42 on June 10, 2008, 12:07:14 PM
Seriously. That's less than two days commute.
Make her take vino, usurp the car. ;D
she lacks the proper license/ experience
Quote from: Mother on June 10, 2008, 12:12:58 PM
?
that is less than a half day commute
that is like a 3 hour commute
Man, I thought 75 miles a day was bad... seriously? Mine is rural highway, so no traffic either...
I looked into taking a train home for X-mas this year. (Wisconsin to California) It will take over three days and cost about the same amount of money. Three days on a train seems a bit much for a first trip. I hate flying so I've looked into it before and I've never found a train to actually be cheaper. I haven't calculated out how much driving will cost, I figure by then gas will be even more expensive.
If you were a stuntman you'd take the vino down 99 the whole way [laugh]
;D
(http://www.cheaptelevision.co.uk/images/Top%20Gear%20Season%2010%20Stig%20Train.jpg)
130 miles, pssst no sweat 1.5 hours. Haul @$$. Ipod, or sirius radio. If the weather is nice ride!! [thumbsup]
The US doesn't really have the right infrastructure for trains to be a practical option most of the time. Now in Europe or Japan it would be different.
i've found the train to be cheap for trips within about 30 miles. most of the time it would take longer to take the train, but that's the trade off.
when going to NYC (around 120 mi) i have taken the train, bus, and driven/ridden. the bus (ghettohound) was the cheapest by far at $35 round trip. driving and amtrak were about the same after you figured in parking. all of those took around the same amt of time. if i had taken NJ transit it would have been around $40 round trip, but it would take at least 3 hrs longer with 3 transfers.
Trains (Amtrak, etc) should be compared with airlines, not with buses or other ground transport.
The convenience of a train (i.e. get up and walk around comfortably, large seats and cafe car --take it or leave it) don't exist on a bus or in a car.
The advantage of a train over airplane are quicker security checks and less time getting to and from (trains are usually in the downtown area, airports usually on the outskirts of town). The flight is a lot shorter than the train, but the going to and coming from the airport makes up for it (and cost)
When I worked in Boston, and lived in NYC (manhattan), flying to Logan from LaGuardia was murder. 2 hours ahead of flight, i had to leave to get to the airport, sometimes even earlier. Then, get through security and wait wait wait.
Amtrak is at Penn St in Manhattan -- 32nd street and 6th ave, right in the middle of the west side. Hop on and hop off at South Station in Boston.
Flying to boston: 4-5 hours total. Amtrak to boston, 4 hours total.
I wish the US would develop more intra-regional train, but people prefer their cars. I would definitely train it around me if i could.
Don't neglect wear, tear, insurance, registration, depreciation and so on. Now, since you already HAVE the vehicle it means a little less.
Oh, and possiblity of accidents.
My favorite train:
(http://www.bayrailalliance.org/files/images/BART_macarthur_oakland.jpg)
San Francisco / Millbrae train now boarding, platform one.
I looked at the train home again (Wisconsin - Oregon this time) for Christmas. I decided on the train.
Price wise it's practically the same, especially when you factor in the per-bag charge that most airlines are implementing. We upgraded to a sleeper, otherwise the train would have actually been about half the price.
Sure it'll take us 2 days to get to Oregon, but it would take almost 24 hours by plane when you figure in layovers, delays, and how early we'd have to get to the airport to check in. Winter in Wisconsin promises delays of some sort, and I believe it's pretty uncommon for a train to be delayed for snow.
I think we'll be less groggy and grouchy when we arrive at our destination. I don't have to be at the station in the middle of the night and I get back in the middle of the day. If I wanted to get a flight at those times I'd be paying close to $1,200 a seat, that's more than my entire train trip for two.
No waiting in uncomfortable airports, we can move around in the train whenever we want. It's like a mini vacation before spending a week with my family.
I'll actually get to see the scenery as I go through all those states, rather than just an airport. And because we got a sleeper all our meals are included in the ticket price.
Also, it's sort of a novelty. I've flow all over the place; I haven't taken the train any decent distance before.
Another issue with Trains in the US is the tracks, at least in the Midwest. There are areas in the country where the train cannot exceed 30 mph due to the quality of the tracks. The Madison / Milwaukee / Twin City area was pushing for a high speed train, but were met with resistance in the towns by concerned parents that were worried about their unsupervised children playing on tracks and getting hit.
Quote from: ducatizzzz on June 11, 2008, 05:03:00 AM
I wish the US would develop more intra-regional train, but people prefer their cars. I would definitely train it around me if i could.
With gas prices going up, this may change somewhat.... it's just a matter of paying for the new train system. No politician would add anymore tax to gas in order to raise the revenue
Quote from: Ducatiloo on July 08, 2008, 10:14:13 AM
Another issue with Trains in the US is the tracks, at least in the Midwest. There are areas in the country where the train cannot exceed 30 mph due to the quality of the tracks. The Madison / Milwaukee / Twin City area was pushing for a high speed train, but were met with resistance in the towns by concerned parents that were worried about their unsupervised children playing on tracks and getting hit.
If they are worried about that, they should not let their kids out and walk them to their short bus for school.
[roll]
Quote from: Ducatiloo on July 08, 2008, 10:17:37 AM
With gas prices going up, this may change somewhat.... it's just a matter of paying for the new train system. No politician would add anymore tax to gas in order to raise the revenue
Fund it other ways.
Offer 99 year leases on the train land and stations and give them to private companies to run. Let them figure out ways to make them viable. Don't saddle them with the union contracts that Amtrak has ($50,000 for a conductor? Gimmie a break-- what's the skillset involved? Punching a ticket? oooo) Pass a law so that a single company can only run multiple regions if they are not contiguous, but require them all to work together and use the same trains and technologies. Limit profit margins for 10 years to 10% with all the remainder going to reinvestment, and then after 10, require a certain margin of reinvestment beyond maintenance. etc
The fed gov couldn't make air conditioners in hell profitable, but give it to the right companies and they can.
Colorado people may remember this if they are long term residents....
many elections ago, the state was trying to decide whether to use fed DOT dollars to expand the north south highway (I-25), or to begin construction of a commuter rail along the front range. one of the ideas for the train was that it would go from either Cheyenne WY or Fort Collins, CO to Colorado Springs, or maybe even Pueblo, with Denver as the obvious hub.
anyhow, there was a big study commissioned, which lasted past Gov. Romers last term in office. it concluded that expanding the highway was not a good idea, since...
a) the construction would be on going for years (10 or more)
b) upon completion, it would not be sufficient for the expected traffic patterns
so the panel advised that the state put the money toward a train system. problem is, Romer left office, and the new guy had other ideas. after first trying to divert the money to a monorail system to get skiers from Denver to the various resort towns, he finally settled on expanding I-25.
why? 'cause people want to have their cars, even if it takes them longer to find a parking spot than it does to drive to their destination.
so,..........a) is the highway expansion complete yet? b) has it made things any better c) if it has in fact cut down on the congestion, how long do folks think it will be sufficient?
DISCLAIMER: the specifics here are to the best of my recollection. i apologize if time and my Alzheimer's has caused me to incorrectly recollect some of the facts
Quote from: ducatizzzz on July 08, 2008, 10:45:35 AM
Offer 99 year leases on the train land and stations and give them to private companies to run. Let them figure out ways to make them viable.
This is a good idea which is being done in Europe quite a bit for new projects. It seems to be the only way to build very large capitol projects now a days. Contractors there are forming design, build, & operate companies (probably not the right term) to construct the project and then operate it for a certain number of years to make their profit.
I know several companies have proposed this for various projects across the US (Seattle's Alaska Way Viaduct, and Highway 520 Floating Bridge, for instance), but I don't
believe any government body has bit yet. Sometimes local laws make this sort of arrangement illegal as well. The laws need to be changed.
As a kid, I used to ride the train from Martinez, CA to Sacramento to spend the day with the grand parents. Time was about the same. I had more freedom to wander around the train and not just sit in the car. Dad could read the paper, play with me, whatever. We both got there relaxed. We'd take the train home that evening and usually sleep the entire ride. Don't know about the cost. But, I'd believe it was a bit cheaper than driving. If nothing else, it was much more fun.
Rode the train from DC to Philly for Santathon with Knight. Was perfect. Rode home the next morning hungover, reeking of alcohol and dressed as Santa. I could just imagine being the kid listed above^ and seeing that on a train.
Ridden trains in Italy and Japan regularly. Italy was fine. Wasn't a long enough period to be any judge. I've been riding the trains here in Japan and I think it's the absolute best way to travel. I can make it just about anywhere on a train. There are local lines, extended distance lines, and bullet trains to whisk you around. They all use the same hubs and are fairly easy to Navigate. Some are Govvy run, some are private run. But, they all work together. All this in a land mass about the size of California.
The train system in Japan is excellent. [thumbsup]
NYC to Boston $18 round trip via chinatown bus.
NYC to Washington is something like $25 per way.
no idea how they keep the prices that low. not to mention the bus that goes to atlantic city. they pay you $50 casino credit and you get a meal voucher.
Quote from: He Man on July 08, 2008, 09:35:43 PM
NYC to Boston $18 round trip via chinatown bus.
NYC to Washington is something like $25 per way.
no idea how they keep the prices that low. not to mention the bus that goes to atlantic city. they pay you $50 casino credit and you get a meal voucher.
no stations, just a room to buy a ticket. no ticketing systems, you print it out at home. you line up outdoors, etc. lower overhead. minimal insurance, God help you if they crash and you try to sue them -- each bus is its own corporation and has no assets.
$18 * 100 = $1800 which is a typical load. Those buses have a 150 gallon tank and use diesel and can get 10-15 mpg. Do the math, it works out, esp when you have no overhead.
I hate to say it, but the TGV train system in France is pretty make the beast with two backsing nice
Quote from: cyrus buelton on July 09, 2008, 05:02:29 AM
I hate to say it, but the TGV train system in France is pretty make the beast with two backsing nice
sure, except when those frog bastards schedule a strike. then the country stops.
Quote from: ducatizzzz on July 09, 2008, 05:51:56 AM
sure, except when those frog bastards schedule a strike. then the country stops.
In Italy they very politely tell you when they are going to strike about a week in advance and still work the three rush hour trains in the morning and evening. Doesn't make the general population upset and still makes a point because they loose all the ticket money during the rest of the day. As a commuter I appreciated it.
Quote from: Kyna on July 09, 2008, 06:31:16 AM
In Italy they very politely tell you when they are going to strike about a week in advance and still work the three rush hour trains in the morning and evening. Doesn't make the general population upset and still makes a point because they loose all the ticket money during the rest of the day. As a commuter I appreciated it.
They do pretty much the same thing in France, only when it gets really bad do they shut down the rush hour trains. They also publish the strikes on the calendar, a year ahead of time.
Quote from: ducatizzzz on July 09, 2008, 05:51:56 AM
sure, except when those frog bastards schedule a strike. then the country stops.
well yeah, but doesn't that happen in most Euro socialist countries?
Better then the cab driver's in paris who seem to strike daily
Unfortunately, I'm on a train at least once a week. (It used to be twice a day until I moved into NYC).
A few observations from being a frequent Acela traveler, frequent NJ Transit customer, and my first and LAST time using the AutoTrain.
1 - The Acela is AWESOME. It is fast, it is smooth, it is quiet and the food isn't too bad. I used to have weekly meetings in DC, and I would catch the 6am Acela from NY Penn Station and be 1/2 a mile from the White House by 9:15. On the way back I would plug in my laptop and watch a Netflix movie. 99% of riders of the Acela are professionals, and there aren't too many assholes or degerates! 8)
2 - You NEED to have a sense of humor to use NJ Transit. For the most part it works, but when it doesn't (especially at rush hour) it becomes Hell on Earth. The new double-decker trains are really quite clean and comfy, and there are a few other cars that are decent as well. The old Silver Arrow cars (the ones with the ridged aluminum bodies and crappy brown vinyl seats) SUCK. Really suck. The benefits are 1) the express routes are really convenient. 2) on non-rush hours, the trains aren't too crowded 3) it's cheap. The downsides 1) can get super-crowded at times - standing room only 2) Aberrant mass of humanity at odd hours. 3) Frequently NOT on time if it's not the morning rush into NYC.
3 - Auto train... sounded like a good idea at the time. My ex- and I took our car and my parents took theirs when we went to Florida once. First of all, they damaged BOTH my car and my parents' car. The morons torqued the wheel straps down so hard they knocked both cars out of alignment. Secondly, you need to WANT to meet other people. If you can't fill a 4 person table for a meal, they WILL seat you with other people who are REALLY, REALLY HAPPY ABOUT BEING ON A TRAIN :P [bang]. You want privacy on a long distance train ride? You AIN'T gonna get it!! I'm naturally an introvert and this was NOT fun. You love meeting new people? You'll love a long train ride.
Quote from: tommys67 on July 09, 2008, 07:49:30 AM
You want privacy on a long distance train ride? You AIN'T gonna get it!! I'm naturally an introvert and this was NOT fun. You love meeting new people? You'll love a long train ride.
Okay, but if you have a sleeper, you'd have privacy then right? Our little cabin has a 2 person capacity so I'm hoping that will take care of the privacy aspect. Besides on planes I seem to sit next to Ms. McFriendlypants or Mr. Creepyguy who both want chat about my trip or how much they hate flying and are petrified of heights. a 10 hour plane ride next to Creepy did not make for a fun travel experience either.
Sorry about your cars.
Quote from: Kyna on July 09, 2008, 08:05:50 AM
Okay, but if you have a sleeper, you'd have privacy then right? Our little cabin has a 2 person capacity so I'm hoping that will take care of the privacy aspect. Besides on planes I seem to sit next to Ms. McFriendlypants or Mr. Creepyguy who both want chat about my trip or how much they hate flying and are petrified of heights. a 10 hour plane ride next to Creepy did not make for a fun travel experience either.
Sorry about your cars.
The auto train was 8 years ago - those cars are long gone. Thanks, though! [thumbsup]
No, you're right. In your cabin you're isolated. The porter will stop by every once in a while, and they are generally McFriendlys as well. I was talking about meals and the observation cars.
When I get Ms. McFriendlypants on a plane I put on "Final Destination I" and chuckle at the part when the plane blows up. [evil] [popcorn] BOOM [popcorn]