The item of interest in the ill fated and short lived California thread was the Jeep CRD vehicles. In 2005 and 2006, Jeep produced about 10000 diesel Libertys and some number of diesel Commanders. There are some diesel Commanders floating around - I saw them for sale at least here in Wisconsin at the dealerships in '05 and '06.
Were these models available for regular gas as well? Were there other differences to the engines? What are the benefits of the diesel model? Better gas mileage I assume. What else?
sac
/knows nothing about Jeeps
//or diesel engines
I've never seen any diesel Commanders, not even on the website. I know they made CRD Cherokees, but I want a Commander. I want the 3rd row and the towing capacity as well. Plus, the Commander can take a M2 turret on the roof with the aftermarket kit.
Quote from: Sắc Dục on December 08, 2010, 01:52:29 PM
Were these models available for regular gas as well? Were there other differences to the engines? What are the benefits of the diesel model? Better gas mileage I assume. What else?
A diesel engine has more torque per cc
Better mileage per cc
A diesel engine will last 5-10x as long as a gas engine with normal use on both.
Diesel is a cleaner fuel as far as "greenhouse" problems go.
Diesel can be a "renewable" fuel as it can be made from any oil-producing plant.
I drive a diesel VW -- I get about 50 mpg on the highway. The comparable gas model gets about 30 mpg hwy.
Similarly, my old '86 Ford Ranger with diesel gets about 30 mpg highway, and the similar gas model gets 22 mpg with a tailwind.
They have the Commander CRD in the UK.
Thought about buying a CRD Liberty back in '06, but didn't since they dropped the option about the time I was looking and I got scared off.
My only experience is with the Liberty. The engine is awesome, the rest of the vehicle has its issues. There were a couple of recalls on transmission related problems and my transmission was totally replaced with about 200 miles left on the warrantee - whew. I wish Dodge would have put this engine in the Dakota pickup - that would have made an excellent little truck.
is it true they are using one of the Mercedes diesels?
Yes
The old Comanche had a 2.1l renault mfi. It was in the cherokee too.
I'd love to see a small truck with a diesel option but the cali fraud issue... Well...
The 3.0 v6 is a benz. The 2.4L in the Liberty is from VM Motori
Quote from: herm on December 08, 2010, 04:24:55 PM
is it true they are using one of the Mercedes diesels?
If they're anything like the Mercedes diesels of old, that's awesome.
I had one back in high school and the engine was all but bulletproof.
Only problem I ever had with it was a broken camshaft.
No idea what caused it to break, but here's how make the beast with two backsing tough that engine is...
The pistons hammered against the open valves that stopped moving when the camshaft broke.
The result was the cam breaking into several more pieces.
I bought a used camshaft and changed it out. (Pretty simple with it being an overhead cam design.)
That was it. No damage to any of the valves, pistons, anything. Put the used cam in and proceeded to put another hundred thousand miles on it before I eventually stopped driving the car.
Oh. And it was a 20 year old car with around 300,000 miles on it and it started with a touch of the key and got 36 miles per gallon.
You hear stuff like that on diesels. Never on a gasser.
Quote from: ducatiz on December 08, 2010, 04:42:53 PM
You hear stuff like that on diesels. Never on a gasser.
Yep.
I'd really like to own another diesel of some sort again.
I've been waiting for the Detroit boys to come out with a diesel half ton, but again, this Cali thing has poopooed that for years. Supposedly Toyota was going to develop a diesel Tundra after ditching the hybrid idea.
The Wrangler is offered with a CRD all over except the US. I'd love one. Ohh well...
Slowpoke posted?! Oh my!
There's a CRD Liberty clicking its way around my 'hood/ The only one I've ever seen
Quote from: duccarlos on December 08, 2010, 04:53:34 PM
I've been waiting for the Detroit boys to come out with a diesel half ton, but again, this Cali thing has poopooed that for years. Supposedly Toyota was going to develop a diesel Tundra after ditching the hybrid idea.
i would love a diesel in the tundra! Toytoa has plenty of diesels for their trucks/suv's. we just cant get them here. [bang]
Quote from: herm on December 08, 2010, 06:14:57 PM
i would love a diesel in the tundra! Toytoa has plenty of diesels for their trucks/suv's. we just cant get them here. [bang]
YUP. Not one, but two different engines. 34mpg combined (city/highway)
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/DMF/th_15bd8097.jpg) (http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/DMF/15bd8097.jpg)
http://www.toyota.co.uk/cgi-bin/toyota/bv/generic_editorial.jsp?deepLink=HL3_Specification_new&nodiv=TRUE&fullwidth=TRUE&edname=specSheet_HL4&carModel=Hilux&zone=Zone%20NG%20Hilux&navRoot=toyota_1024_root (http://www.toyota.co.uk/cgi-bin/toyota/bv/generic_editorial.jsp?deepLink=HL3_Specification_new&nodiv=TRUE&fullwidth=TRUE&edname=specSheet_HL4&carModel=Hilux&zone=Zone%20NG%20Hilux&navRoot=toyota_1024_root)
I drove a diesel Hilux and diesel Land Cruiser while in Africa... Not to mention the diesel in the Hilux, they also have a stiffer frame (or at least used to).
how would you compare it to your f150?
I don't have an F150. But, I've driven the most recent Taco a bit (~200+ miles) and the Hilux. I loved the Hilux. It felt firmer. Obviously it was a bit more abused as I was driving over Africa dirt roads. But, I would have trusted it to take me a lot more places than a US Spec Taco.
Quote from: slowpoke13 on December 08, 2010, 05:06:38 PM
The Wrangler is offered with a CRD all over except the US. I'd love one. OH well...
So what, the turd of a minivan engine In the JK doesn't do it for you? Me either. I've been wanting to replace my Cherokee with a wrangler for a while. The JK doesn't do it for me. A diesel JK though could really change my perspective.
In the meantime, I constantly harass my poor wife every time a nicely nodded LJ shows up on a local lot.
Quote from: slowpoke13 on December 08, 2010, 08:04:07 PM
I don't have an F150. But, I've driven the most recent Taco a bit (~200+ miles) and the Hilux. I loved the Hilux. It felt firmer. Obviously it was a bit more abused as I was driving over Africa dirt roads. But, I would have trusted it to take me a lot more places than a US Spec Taco.
sorry poke, mixing you up with one of the other navy folks [bacon]
Quote from: Sad Panda on December 08, 2010, 05:31:18 PM
Slowpoke posted?! Oh my!
There's a CRD Liberty clicking its way around my 'hood/ The only one I've ever seen
personalized tag???...if so, that is a service writer here...he has one...and a 4Runner decked out for beach duty....
Quote from: DW on December 09, 2010, 01:50:36 AM
So what, the turd of a minivan engine In the JK doesn't do it for you? Me either. I've been wanting to replace my Cherokee with a wrangler for a while. The JK doesn't do it for me. A diesel JK though could really change my perspective.
I love my 4dr JK. The minivan motor sucked hard when I lifted her. But, had her regeared with 5.13s and she purrs now. Milage still sucks though. Hence the desire for the diesel. But, I can drop in a 5.7 or 6.1(2?) hemi. Hell, a few companies make kits for the swap too. And depending on the milage, it might be bout the same as it is now. Not that I need a hemi and it'd likely be overkill for any practical use. But, it'd be fun.
Chrysler is an a very bad spot in regard to their powerplant options now. Their engines all seem to suck way more gas than the competition. I just bought my wife a Nissan Pathfinder. Pretty big vehicle with plenty of power and it gets 20-21 in highway driving. Our turd of a minivan was underpowered and got about 18 on the same trip. friends with durangos and grand cherokees are talking about mid to lower teens in mileage. I've driven anew liberty and it just sucked. That is not a truck engine. I'd love to take the engine out of my Pathfinder and put it in a lifted LJ. We need torque!!!
Quote from: WarrenJ on December 08, 2010, 04:18:23 PM
I wish Dodge would have put this engine in the Dakota pickup - that would have made an excellent little truck.
I would have bought that instead of getting the 4.7 V8 in mine.
JM
Quote from: DW on December 10, 2010, 08:30:52 PM
Chrysler is an a very bad spot in regard to their powerplant options now. Their engines all seem to suck way more gas than the competition. I just bought my wife a Nissan Pathfinder. Pretty big vehicle with plenty of power and it gets 20-21 in highway driving. Our turd of a minivan was underpowered and got about 18 on the same trip. friends with durangos and grand cherokees are talking about mid to lower teens in mileage. I've driven anew liberty and it just sucked. That is not a truck engine. I'd love to take the engine out of my Pathfinder and put it in a lifted LJ. We need torque!!!
complaining about the fuel mileage on jeeps is like complaining that a funny car wont hold a 1g turn
fact is the new Jeep JK has specs that kick the old TJ/YJ/CJ's ass
JK 3.7 V-6 has 205hp and 240lbs of torque vs. TJ 190hp and 235lbs/ft
JK 4.46:1 first gear vs. TJ 3.83:1 first gear
JK 4:1 low range vs. TJ 2.72:1 low range
JK 4.11:1 axle ratio vs. TJ 2.73:1 axle ratio
these numbers are fantastic, I have an added 15k in my TJ to get these numbers
but
the kicker is the JK has a fat ass, it's 1000lbs heavier than the TJ
thus the butt dyno says that the engine is lame duck
My step mom has a auto JK and my dad has a 5 speed TJ, the TJ feels much snappier. The JK is probably a much better vehicle but it needs a little something in the power department to be great (like a diesel).
complaining about the fuel mileage on jeeps is like complaining that a funny car wont hold a 1g turn
fact is the new Jeep JK has specs that kick the old TJ/YJ/CJ's ass.
JK's are capable. Their paper specs look impressive. The driving experience though, as you said is lacking. I also don't expect great things out of Jeep fuel economy. I do think that certain things could be done in the design to improve it. Diesels are more efficient, which is not a bad thing. To get back on topic, I have wanted a diesel jeep for a long time. The torque characteristics and potential for longevity inherent with that type of powerplant make a great deal of sense. They would also easily kick the ass of the current engine. I know it was time for the 4.0 to die. But there are far better options elsewhere. Just not under the Chrysler umbrella.
Quote from: DW on December 13, 2010, 01:55:06 AM
complaining about the fuel mileage on jeeps is like complaining that a funny car wont hold a 1g turn
fact is the new Jeep JK has specs that kick the old TJ/YJ/CJ's ass.
JK's are capable. Their paper specs look impressive. The driving experience though, as you said is lacking. I also don't expect great things out of Jeep fuel economy. I do think that certain things could be done in the design to improve it. Diesels are more efficient, which is not a bad thing. To get back on topic, I have wanted a diesel jeep for a long time. The torque characteristics and potential for longevity inherent with that type of powerplant make a great deal of sense. They would also easily kick the ass of the current engine. I know it was time for the 4.0 to die. But there are far better options elsewhere. Just not under the Chrysler umbrella.
agreed, I would love the diesel in my TJ
but in the JK
(already carrying the extra 1000lbs)
The CRD is 300lbs heavier than the 4.0 gas motor
(from everything I can find which isn't much)
is the torque and fuel mileage going to be able to overcome the extra 1300lbs?
(not including the added weight of upgraded suspension and drive train)
Yes.
Quote from: ducatiz on December 14, 2010, 03:32:57 AM
Yes.
Awesome
I will now spend my free time pining over this Mod
My liberty CRD had never lacked for power but they have been plagued with transmission problems. I am not any kind of authority on transmissions but perhaps the transmission they used could not handle the extra torque developed by the diesel. My tranny had two recalls, one of which was to detune the engine to reduce wear and tear on the transmission. A few months ago, I was having other transmission problems and they ended up replacing it completely. Fortunately, I had about 200 miles on the warranty yet.
Its been about -2F here in the mornings which has required plugging in the jeep for starting. It seems to start well right down to 0F but once it gets below 0, it's not even worth trying without plugging it in. Several hours of heating and it pops right off.
I wish someone would build a couple of great vehicles around this wonderful engine instead of trying to shoehorn it into some existing platform like they did with the Jeep. It would make a great midsize car or midsize pickup engine.
That engine was made for the Liberty by vm motori. No other vehicle has one. It shares the bottom end with some industrial eq but the top end and efi are all unique to the liberty. Of course the crd system is licensed from benz.