I've been contemplating trying to get out there and work construction for a while since I'm not having much luck with engineering. I'm sure at least a few of you have worked construction or are working construction now. How does one go about getting into it? Like, say... if I wanted to try framing, would I just show up at a construction site with a hammer and a hardhat and ask for work? I don't see any ads really on craigslist. Sometimes ignorance is bliss but not knowing anything about the real world is kinda sucking.
back in the day
that's how I did it
just show up at a site and ask
but times have changed
if I was in your shoes and wanted to get into construction now
I would get in touch with the Carpenters Union and get an apprenticeship
edit
The reasons for the UBC apprenticeship would be for the training and the employment resources available through the hall
Who hasn't, oh wait I forgot this is a Ducati forum.
I was born into it.
Fortunatly I was smart enough to work my way out of it.
Quote from: erkishhorde on December 16, 2010, 05:35:58 PM
<snip> Sometimes ignorance is bliss but not knowing anything about the real world is kinda sucking.
...and there you have it.
There is no gravity.
The world sucks. ;)
In all seriousness an apprenticeship is not a bad idea if you really want to work for a living.
I did when younger.
There is nothing like holding onto a jack hammer for dear life only to have to pry your hands open to let go of the handle.
I've been doing carpentry for 9 years frameing siding and trim for 8 of them and for the past year custom cabinets. Just have to find an add or word of mouth. BUT the way things are going its getting harder to get into it cause no ones building houses.
Quote from: erkishhorde on December 16, 2010, 05:35:58 PM
I've been contemplating trying to get out there and work construction for a while since I'm not having much luck with engineering. I'm sure at least a few of you have worked construction or are working construction now. How does one go about getting into it? Like, say... if I wanted to try framing, would I just show up at a construction site with a hammer and a hardhat and ask for work? I don't see any ads really on craigslist. Sometimes ignorance is bliss but not knowing anything about the real world is kinda sucking.
Wrong time to try to find a construction gig in Southern California. Worse time to try to find a construction gig with no experience.
I worked as a plumber when I was younger, unfortunately you probably won't have much luck just walking onto a jobsite looking for work these days. The construction business is in too much of a slump to hire someone off the street with no real experience, especially when there are other companies and unions fighting for that same job.
The way plumbing worked when I did it was that you had to work as an apprentice first. You could then go to a trade school, which you have to pay for, that will help make you more money. There are usually different/many levels of schooling that once finished you would have the title of "master", just like moto mechanics.
This will take you a period of years to do and the hours you will put in will be long and arduous but it will make you feel like you actually did something that day. My mother has been in the construction business for nearly 40 years so you can make quite a career out of it but, like others have said, it is a little harder to get in to since construction in a lot of places has been flat out halted.
You might have better luck trying to get in with a labor company. It's not fun work at all but it will get you on the jobsites and if you bust your ass and show them you're willing to learn it may lead to other possibilities. Plus, as a laborer, you'll most likely end up on all parts of the jobsite and get to do all types of work. That might help give you an idea of what dedicated field you might want to work in.
I assume you're looking for work right now? I might have a few people I can check with but it won't be for a couple months and I'm almost an hour from you, if any of that matters?
Quote from: kopfjäger on December 16, 2010, 06:15:11 PM
Who hasn't, oh wait I forgot this is a Ducati forum.
[laugh] That made me laugh out loud!!!
I have had some kind of construction/ construction related job since I was 14. Started out cleaning jobsites, sweeping floors etc. Then I installed septic systems, framed, finish trim, built cabinets, concrete countertops furniture... now I am back in school and I tile bathrooms nights and weekends.
Construction work sucks, but unfortunately it is how I know how to make money at the moment, and I refuse to work retail.
I wouldn't join a union. I have worked with a lot of union guys and they can do one thing. One guy could hang doors, another guy could build concrete forms, another could lay linoleum tile... you get the picture. They don't train you to learn the business or own your own company. I'm sure once you hit mid-late thirties, worker bee gets tough and you don't get the broad range of experience needed to run your own show. Unless you never want to do your own thing, don't like to work that hard and look good in neon orange.
No experience is tough, especially in Cali because you are competing with lots of day laborers who WILL work harder than you, and not expect as much money. You do speak English, so that is a plus and if you bust your ass, that gives you a foot up.
so umm, that was kind of a rambling assortment of thoughts ( had an organic chem final today and my brain still hasn't recovered)
Summary: it is hard work, especially coming from a desk job. hard to get your food in the door wtih no experience, 1 vote for "don't waste your time with a union"
Showing up to a job with a hard hat and a hammer will get you laughed at, and there is no way you would get a job like that at your age. Ask any architect, engineer, realtor that you know, if they know anyone...
Quote from: Vindingo on December 16, 2010, 07:46:33 PM
Summary: it is hard work, especially coming from a desk job. hard to get your food in the door wtih no experience, 1 vote for "don't waste your time with a union"
so here's a question
you are a seasoned construction guy
you acknowledge that its a PITA to get in the buisness without experience
and yet you vote no on the union idea
even though it is a sure fire way to get your foot in the door?
that doesn't make any sense
Quote from: Mother on December 16, 2010, 07:51:58 PM
so here's a question
you are a seasoned construction guy
you acknowledge that its a PITA to get in the buisness without experience
and yet you vote no on the union idea
even though it is a sure fire way to get your foot in the door?
that doesn't make any sense
I'd rather have my foot shoved up my own ass than be a union member.
just sayin'
Quote from: humorless dp on December 16, 2010, 07:55:43 PM
I'd rather have my foot shoved up my own ass than be a union member.
just sayin'
agreed
but
use them the way they use their members
get an apprenticeship, get your foot in the door, get to know some folk
and
then go scab
Quote from: Mother on December 16, 2010, 07:58:51 PM
agreed
but
use them the way they use their members
get an apprenticeship, get your foot in the door, get to know some folk
and
then go scab
but the deal with unions is you buy into the program...
you pay dues...go to school...stand around on a jobsite for a few years and collect a pension.
No working involved. ;)
Quote from: humorless dp on December 16, 2010, 08:01:25 PM
but the deal with unions is you buy into the program...
you pay dues...go to school...stand around on a jobsite for a few years and collect a pension.
No working involved. ;)
I dunno what unions you guys worked for
but
can you send me a contact?
I would love to stand around and earn a pension
this sitting around and napping is killing me
Quote from: Mother on December 16, 2010, 08:03:59 PM
I dunno what unions you guys worked for
<snip>
no foot up my ass.
Quote from: Mother on December 16, 2010, 07:51:58 PM
so here's a question
you are a seasoned construction guy
you acknowledge that its a PITA to get in the buisness without experience
and yet you vote no on the union idea
even though it is a sure fire way to get your foot in the door?
that doesn't make any sense
joining a union will not necessarily get you work, but it will cost you time and money. Pay to take classes, joining fees, and that still doesn't guarantee you work. Paying to get your foot in the door to an empty room...
I think it is a waste of time. 4 years working for an independent contractor will give you 10x more expedience than apprenticing 4 years as a union carpenter.
It also wouldn't hurt to work on your house, your parent's house, friends houses... get some basic tools and practice on forgiving clients.
Quote from: Bick on December 16, 2010, 06:26:02 PM
I was born into it.
Fortunatly I was smart enough to work my way out of it.
I wasnt.
Quote from: humorless dp on December 16, 2010, 07:55:43 PM
I'd rather have my foot shoved up my own ass than be a union member.
just sayin'
+1
I have a cousin thats a union carpenter in New Jersey. He builds concrete forms all day every day.....Id rather work retail.
Unions [roll]
If I was to do it all over, I would have gone to HVAC or Plumbing school and started my own gig. I have two friends, both in HVAC that pull down $300+ per year. They bust their asses and the busy seasons suck because you are always on call with a small company. There is a happy medium.
If you want to try something different, that doesnt require years of technical education or shoveling shit as an apprentice, ride the Green Wave. Learn how to do home energy audits, sell solar thermal hot water systems or get trained on spray foam insulation.
Use your engineering credentials to your advantage. For example, if you are an electrical engineer, sell PV systems.
The framers that I use, work 6-7 days a week, 8 plus hours a day in 100 degree heat and 20 degree cold and they all speak Spanish. They are happy to have the work. They are some precise and fast mofo's. Unless you are superman, you can't keep up with them.
^^^
what he said! Pimp the degree and get creative!
Quote from: humorless dp on December 16, 2010, 08:01:25 PM
No working involved. ;)
Thats SOO not true! Holding a stop sign with a sour look on your face is hard work ( unless there is a traffic cone you can stick it in. then all you have to do is spin the sign around once in a while )
Quote from: Vindingo on December 16, 2010, 08:17:56 PM
joining a union will not necessarily get you work, but it will cost you time and money. Pay to take classes, joining fees, and that still doesn't guarantee you work. Paying to get your foot in the door to an empty room...
I think it is a waste of time. 4 years working for an independent contractor will give you 10x more expedience than apprenticing 4 years as a union carpenter.
It also wouldn't hurt to work on your house, your parent's house, friends houses... get some basic tools and practice on forgiving clients.
Things must be way different in california
I was a Millwright, we were part of the UBC
I took a test to get placed in the apprenticeship (no cost, no dues)
waited until my number came up (no cost, no dues) wait time was 3 months
and
my first duty as an apprentice was to report to a job site with my tools and start working (dues came out of my check as I was paid)
Then I was scheduled for classes while I worked with the option of working Mon-Thur with class Friday
or
go for a week at a time every 2 months and I got paid to be in class
when the job finished you were put on the books and automatically enrolled by the union for unemployment and all dealings with unemployment was taken care of by the hall so no weekly job searching
during the apprenticeship you were trained in every aspect of Millwrighting and were actively discouraged from focusing on a single set of skills
the longest amount of time I was on unemployment between jobs was 2 weeks
So what happened to the Millwright gig?
Quote from: rgramjet on December 16, 2010, 08:32:01 PM
So what happened to the Millwright gig?
I wanted to be a fireman and have some "meaning" to my life instead of a nice paycheck
[bang]
Quote from: hbliam on December 16, 2010, 07:06:35 PM
Wrong time to try to find a construction gig in Southern California. Worse time to try to find a construction gig with no experience.
True dat.
I build houses in the Santa Ynez Valley for a living. Not with hammers but with schedules and CAD programs and spreadsheets. I like my job actually. My clients usually suck, but the houses I get to work on are pretty nifty and the locations are always beautiful.
Here's the thing about construction, no one does it because they want to. That means you don't really want to. Ask anyone in any trade on a site how they got into construction. Not one of them will tell you: well ever since I watched Builder Bob cartoons as a kid I've wanted to be hot mopping roofs in 100 degree heat. Its the fulfillment of a dream! Nope, its always:
Well I was out of work and my buddy . . .
After I got kicked out of college I . . .
Well this is what my old man did so . . .
My cousin said he could get me work so I hopped the boarder. . .
Do not consider a construction job as a career choice. The work sucks, its sporadic at best right now and you will earn shit for money. Plus you'll have to invest many hundreds if not thousands of dollars in your own tools. You know who pays for that saw blade when in goes dull? Probably you. Having a summer of swinging hammers under your belt will help you in your engineering work, but now is not the time for it. I know framers so make the beast with two backsing talented they routinely call engineers on their mistakes and tell them exactly how they want the RFI drawn up so it matches the correction they already made because they sure as hell weren't going to wait around for a pencil pusher to get back to them next week. Some of these guys went 6 months without work last year. Not to be harsh, but they are not looking to babysit a noob at the moment. They have a hole to dig themselves out of. The only way to do that with contract work is to bust ass.
If its money you need you are better off waiting tables. If it is knowledge about how construction works, well I dunno. I got into construction by a complete fluke myself. I certainly didn't have an overwhelming ambition to work in this field. I kinda think no one does.
I suggest grad school to kill the time until the economy is better. Or a serious drug habit to help you piss the next decade away. Either way.
sac
Many years ago, after High School, but before I decided I needed to go to college, I was toiling away as a Shift Manager at McDonald's. It was an okay gig at the time, but the hours sucked and so did the pay.
I was still living at home with my parents and they had a renovation that required extensive masonry work done by a local contractor (this is in mid-Michigan).
Since I was home a couple of the days, I helped out a little bit here and there for no real good reason.
A few weeks later I find out that the mason contractor has an opening and I contact him about it. With no experience, I got the job. I also applied to a local junior college around the same time for their automotive service program.
I worked to the mason contractor for about two years. It's a tough job. I mainly worked on the crew that did block foundations and flatwork (finished concrete for basement floors, garages, driveways, sidewalks and such). The company also did poured wall foundations and had a brick crew. I helped out with each. We worked in the hot, humid days of summer, and the miserably cold days of winter. I had to buy tools, as well as the right clothing for the conditions (Carhartt became a well known brand).
The upside was the satisfaction in seeing the fruits of your labor (which I really, really miss today), as well as the fairly good physical shape I got into.
Downside was the hard working conditions (both weather and the physicality of the job) and the relatively low pay.
Would I do it again, in a heartbeat.
Would I do it today, if I had too, yes, but it still probably wouldn't pay the bills (my fault) and I'd probably get pissed at the shoddy construction workmanship I see nowadays.
Sac speaks the truth. Horrible time to go into construction. I've been in the trades for over 15 years now, and I'm very good at what I do. Yet, even with that much experience, I'm jobless.
I've even toyed with the idea of going into business for myself again, but there just isn't enough work around to justify it. Things are so bad here, the most reputable builder in my area let all his guys go and has resorted to doing handyman work, and he's only working 1-2 days a week at that.
Quote from: Mother on December 16, 2010, 08:03:59 PM
I dunno what unions you guys worked for
but
can you send me a contact?
I would love to stand around and earn a pension
this sitting around and napping is killing me
Yeh and union laborers in NYC make $45 an hour. Most of them work real hard and in shitty conditions.
OP-If you got an engineering degree, google "Space Systems Loral" and poke at the website. We're hiring almost a hundred engineers.
Quote from: MrIncredible on December 16, 2010, 10:08:14 PM
OP-If you got an engineering degree, google "Space Systems Loral" and poke at the website. We're hiring almost a hundred engineers.
You can use a structural engineer?
I obviously don't WANT to do construction but my field of schooling is related to construction too so a shit market is a shit market regardless of which side of the equation I'm looking at. :-\ I was just thinking of trying to broaden any chance I have of getting a little coin in my pocket. I've been out of work for 2 years and only have 5mo of office time under my belt when I first got out of school. Yay for being idealistic and putting personal well-being over money. I feel that the longer I'm out, the less chance I have of getting anything. I've got my BS but still haven't finished my MS project and would really rather be making coin than working on this project.
I know that I should be working on the project and should be able to knock it out quickly but every day I'm also looking for work and the depression just saps any will to be productive out of me. I've got no money left and am at home with the 'rents but I don't want to be a burden to them. Things with the 'rents are tough since my dad hates his job and wants to retire but can't because I'm being a bum at home so he's grouchy all the time and we yell at each other a lot. I've seriously considered just taking the bike out on the freeway and closing my eyes for a minute to see what happens. I'm just feeling... lost...
Quote from: Mother on December 16, 2010, 07:51:58 PM
so here's a question
you are a seasoned construction guy
you acknowledge that its a PITA to get in the buisness without experience
and yet you vote no on the union idea
that doesn't make any sense
The vast majority of construction in California is non-union. The only real union jobs are on government or huge commercial jobs. 99% of residential construction is non-union.
So, another vote for no union.
And I've been in the industry as a salesman since the mid 90's. I still sell but with the lack of work my sales are down 80-85%.
I'm no expert by any means
but
I'm thinking that at this point you should just go get a job
any job
and
finish whatever an "MS project" is
also
maybe not ride till you get your head straight and your shit unmake the beast with two backsed
It's a lot harder to job hunt when you'rE a vegetable and your dad can't retire
ever
since he's paying the bills
and
your mom is wiping the drool off your quadriplegic chin
Quote from: hbliam on December 16, 2010, 11:07:56 PM
The vast majority of construction in California is non-union. The only real union jobs are on government or huge commercial jobs. 99% of residential construction is non-union.
So, another vote for no union.
And I've been in the industry as a salesman since the mid 90's. I still sell but with the lack of work my sales are down 80-85%.
right
cuz a cost plus fed job or commercial gig would suck...
whatever you do OP don't go anywhere that might actually help you get into something
better to be broke and elitist than a single skill dirt worker with a paycheck
I'm going to go ban myself now
Quote from: rgramjet on December 16, 2010, 08:18:53 PM
The framers that I use, work 6-7 days a week, 8 plus hours a day in 100 degree heat and 20 degree cold and they all speak Spanish. They are happy to have the work. They are some precise and fast mofo's. Unless you are superman, you can't keep up with them.
Pretty much describes the majority of workers from all trades.
I started out (23 years old and in surfed everyday good shape) as the guy that drove around to jobs dropping off materials and doing clean-ups on concrete tile roof jobs. One day the boss told me to go help the crew load a roof. So I spent the day loading tile onto a conveyor. 4 tiles x 7 lbs each x 88 tiles per square x 3 squares per pallet x 10 pallets.
The next day he told me to go help load another roof. I told him he could fire me or give me something else to do. I kept my job because I spoke English, had a drivers license, and was reliable. I never played "laborer" again. Hell no.
Quote from: Mother on December 16, 2010, 11:17:26 PM
right
cuz a cost plus fed job or commercial gig would suck...
whatever you do OP don't go anywhere that might actually help you get into something
better to be broke and elitist than a single skill dirt worker with a paycheck
I'm going to go ban myself now
Relax. You just dont understand our construction industry. He can't just show up at the good old union hall and get a job at a sweet government project. I know 20-40 year (!!!) vets of the industry saying this is the worst low ever.
This isn't Gran Torino. It's the real world. The op already got good advice...get a graduate degree. That's what I'm in the process of doing and I HAVE a union job AND a side gig selling construction projects and a wife that works.
Quote from: hbliam on December 16, 2010, 11:26:49 PM
Relax. You just dont understand our construction industry. He can't just show up at the good old union hall and get a job at a sweet government project. I know 20-40 year (!!!) vets of the industry saying this is the worst low ever.
This isn't Gran Torino. It's the real world. The op already got good advice...get a graduate degree. That's what I'm in the process of doing and I HAVE a union job AND a side gig selling construction projects and a wife that works.
this is what I don't understand
why would you (figurative you) want to limit yourself in any capacity to find gainful employment?
Quote from: Mother on December 16, 2010, 11:52:19 PM
this is what I don't understand
why would you (figurative you) want to limit yourself in any capacity to find gainful employment?
I have employment.
Are you asking why I am pursuing more education? Or trying to make a joke about educated people? Which is fine. I make fun of them all the time.
Quote from: hbliam on December 17, 2010, 12:03:03 AM
I have employment.
Are you asking why I am pursuing more education? Or trying to make a joke about educated people? Which is fine. I make fun of them all the time.
no, not you
I mean why would anyone want to limit themselves when looking for work?
Quote from: Mother on December 17, 2010, 12:07:08 AM
no, not you
I mean why would anyone want to limit themselves when looking for work.
What we mean is....of course he could try your route but in our professional experience, in this region, your route is not an option.
Btw op: what kind of work are u looking for (engineer wise)? Building bridges and stuff?
I'm structural so I can't do most of general civil stuff. :( Started an master's, finished classes, still have the project (hence the MS project). Most openings I'm seeing are looking for 2-5 yrs exp. :(
To stay on topic for a moment, I've worked various construction jobs but it was during a building boom and it was a means to an end, a way to ski all winter or get through another year of school, not with the goal of a career. I actually liked the work and the long term benefit is that I can get by as a carpenter, plumber, sheet rocker and and electrician and never have to pay anyone else to repair or remodel my house.
Don't want to sound overly critical on a public forum but you are saying you have an engineering degree from Cal Poly SLO and have not been able to find a job in two years?? Something is very wrong with this picture and bad economy or not I'm having a hard time believing it's all the fault of the outside world.
It's a very safe bet that if you didn't have parents willing to put you up, you would have had a job long ago. Finish your Master's project, even if for nothing more than your own self-respect. This is just something you have to do. It will not get easier the longer you procrastinate. It's probably also a red flag to prospective employers that you haven't finished it.
You're only going to be 20-something once, you're making life too serious for yourself and you need to get out of this rut. Join the Peace Corps, hell, join the Marines. I'm very serious.
Quote from: Langanobob on December 17, 2010, 02:19:22 AM
Don't want to sound overly critical on a public forum but you are saying you have an engineering degree from Cal Poly SLO and have not been able to find a job in two years?? Something is very wrong with this picture and bad economy or not I'm having a hard time believing it's all the fault of the outside world.
I didn't say I haven't been able to find a job for 2 years, I said I haven't been working for 2 years although that's not entirely true either. I quit in January '09 and was seriously looking for work for about half a year and got nothin'. Around that time all my old college classmates were calling each other asking whose place had openings. I stopped sending out apps every day at that point since I'd already sent apps to almost every company on the SEAOC list and and was starting to through the phone book.
I started focusing more on figuring out a new project to finish my MS degree since my first project flopped. It took me until January '10 to get a new project rolling and I went back to SLO to work on the project and worked 2 min. wage jobs to support myself. Was trundling along at a rather slow pace since I was working a lot and then around June I cut a tendon in my finger when a glass plate shattered in my hand. Lost both my min. wage jobs (who says that they can't fire you when you're gone for a disability? They just reduce your hours to nothing and push you out instead.) and sat around for 2 months while it healed since I was typing at like 2 words a minute w/ 1 hand and sleeping a lot since the pain meds I got weren't doing crap. The best part is that even with that 2 months off the tendon still popped and didn't heal. It's interesting to see the doc in turmoil over whether or not he wants to tell you that there is something he can do but you can't afford it so you ain't gonna get it anyway.
Went back home to the 'rents and looked for work seriously for the last 4 months and nada. So if you want to measure how long I've been unable to find a job, it's been a little less than a year split into two half years. There's only so many firms in CA and I've been trying to keep my search down to CA jobs.
Quote from: Langanobob on December 17, 2010, 02:19:22 AM
It's a very safe bet that if you didn't have parents willing to put you up, you would have had a job long ago. Finish your Master's project, even if for nothing more than your own self-respect. This is just something you have to do. It will not get easier the longer you procrastinate. It's probably also a red flag to prospective employers that you haven't finished it.
Yeah, I'd be working at Taco Hell. I was thinking that about the unfinished MS too. I understand that it looks like you lack the drive to finish what you start but at the same time, not everyone even tries for it and of those that try, not everyone finishes so why do you get punished for aiming high and then finding out that you just don't cut it? You're still better than the guys that didn't try in the first place, aren't you?
Having built my 30x33' shop mostly myself over the course of a summer in my spare time, I can say I would have no interest in being in construction as a full-time occupation.
Quote from: erkishhorde on December 17, 2010, 04:14:08 AM
Yeah, I'd be working at Taco Hell. I was thinking that about the unfinished MS too. I understand that it looks like you lack the drive to finish what you start but at the same time, not everyone even tries for it and of those that try, not everyone finishes so why do you get punished for aiming high and then finding out that you just don't cut it? You're still better than the guys that didn't try in the first place, aren't you?
In all honesty, I don't think
trying makes you better. The only thing that sets you apart is finishing. Trying and not finishing looks bad. Like you even said, "finding out that you just don't cut it" would send up a red flag because you've already found out the potential isn't there.
BUT... if you have made it this far, you CAN finish it. Saying that "you just don't cut it" is stupid. I was in almost the exact same boat you were in 1.5 years ago. A little Puritan hard work will get you through it...
Get a job at TGIFridays, Chili's, [insert local restaraunt here] and bang the cutest waitress there. Seriously, its incestuous and everyone gets a piece. Tell her you're an engineer just trying to make money to finish your master's thesis... don't get her pregnant. She and everyone else that works there will think you are just sooo smart. This will put you in a good mood and give you confidence to finish the project.
just a bit of advice: next time you get a job, don't quit because your boss is a make the beast with two backstard:
http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=14302.0 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=14302.0)
....at least until you've found another job.
(especially in this economy)
Quote from: erkishhorde on December 17, 2010, 04:14:08 AM
You're still better than the guys that didn't try in the first place, aren't you?
No
It's not about self worth, it's about aptitude.
If you have the ability, but lack the fortitude, then the fault is yours, and yours alone.
If you sat down and worked on your project like it was a job, you'd be finished in almost no time.
Now, if you're serious about gaining construction experience, volunteer for a group like Habitat for Humanity. They'll take any warm body, and you'll get a chance to gain some skills and see what the trade requires from you.
I've worked construction for 23 years here on the east coast. I got into it because I've always liked working with my hands, and I get a real sense of accomplishment from seeing the results of my labor. For every sub-zero, Godmyhandsarenumb or IthinkI'mgoingtomelt day, there is a beautiful, sun shining, perfect temperature day when I look around and say "Thank god I don't have to work in an office!"
The economy has really screwed the housing/construction market worse than any other job sector I can think of, so if you just want something to get you by for a while, I'd choose almost any other line of work. Go get a job as a debt collector. There seems to be a need.
Quote from: erkishhorde on December 17, 2010, 12:51:44 AM
I'm structural so I can't do most of general civil stuff. :( Started an master's, finished classes, still have the project (hence the MS project). Most openings I'm seeing are looking for 2-5 yrs exp. :(
It's tough for many structural engineers right now. Most rely on construction of buildings, and there aren't too many being built. Three years ago we had a hard time even finding a structural engineer to hire who wasn't worthless...now we can easily get very good ones since so many are out of work.
My advice, as a management level engineer:
1. Finish your Masters. No one gives a shit that you started it and didn't finish. A BS in engineering is very common. An MS will help set you apart, and also allows you to specialize to the field of your choice. Get student loans if you need. I got my MS using student loans (same for my BS). I still owe money, but it was a
very good investment. Of course...only do this if you want to be an engineer...otherwise it's a waste of money.
2. Apply for the 2-5 year jobs. The worst that can happen is they don't call you back. Hell, even try for an internship. No money while getting your foot in the door is better than no money while sitting at home watching Oprah.
3. If you have a BS in civil engineering, which is what I would guess since I've never heard of a BS in structural engineering (usually only MS degrees are specialized like that), then you can do normal civil stuff. You may not want to, but that's a different story. No engineer out of school fresh with a BS really knows anything anyway, so they get trained.
4. Some industries are booming right now, or are at least doing well. Tunneling and heavy Civil (what I do) is one of them. Look into tunnel engineering firms (JE, PB, Hatch Mott, etc)...or into tunneling contractors (Kenny, Shea, Traylor, Barnhardt, etc). Mining (Barrack, Newmont, etc) is also doing well. Spend some time on the internet doing research. Most structural engineers I knew in school had their hearts set on skyscrapers and bridges (just like most MEs wanted to design airplanes)...and most don't do that. There are interesting jobs in other fields.
5. Finally, don't be afraid to leave CA.
Good luck. [thumbsup]
Quote from derby:
Quotejust a bit of advice: next time you get a job, don't quit because your boss is a make the beast with two backstard:
I didn't follow your link but I think I remember the thread. The conventional wisdom is of course to never quit a job 'til you have a new one lined up, but life sometimes pays off on risks and sometimes you just have to do what you have to do. I had a bad boss once and one day I just had enough, left a brief resignation effective immediately note on my desk and walked out. Had $300 to my name and it wasn't pretty but within two months I had a great job that literally turned my life around. I've wondered how things would've turn out if I didn't have the gumption or stupidity or whatever it was to walk out on the bad boss. But it was an overall bad job, not just the boss.
Quote from TripleJ
Quote5. Finally, don't be afraid to leave CA.
+1. I was going to ask why erkishorde is limiting his job search to California? There's a big and exciting world out there.
I 3rd that motion.. get out of ca.. shit isn't there a build boom in some overseas countty? Prob make more too.. hey bun bun, where on the east coast are you?
sounds to me like you aren't built for construction...
not a whole lot of care for feelings out there.
Quote from: erkishhorde on December 17, 2010, 04:14:08 AM
I was thinking that about the unfinished MS too. I understand that it looks like you lack the drive to finish what you start but at the same time, not everyone even tries for it and of those that try, not everyone finishes so why do you get punished for aiming high and then finding out that you just don't cut it? You're still better than the guys that didn't try in the first place, aren't you?
Actually, no. It makes you look like a quitter. It also just doesn't make sense. You do all the other work that goes into it and then fail to complete the last step?
Now that I have this other info:
-Get any type of job. Sales at Best Buy, waiter, whatever.
-Finish MS.
-Get entry level position in your field.
-Work hard and move up incrementally like the rest of us.
And let all the CA haters shovel snow. We can ride our Ducati's year round.
the US forest service is always hiring if you MUST stay in CA...
if you're not afraid of hard work (i assume, since you are looking into construction) you could actually do ok...
Convince yourself to finish school.
I almost quit a couple of times on my way to getting my lowly BS in engineering. Glad I had shitty jobs during those times to get my head back on straight.
Trust me, it's worth it. ;)
Actually, go get a job as a laborer!
After about 3 months, you will relish the time you spend working on your ms.
Brief moment after the Air Force when I worked construction. Actually, it was digging trenches and laying conduit pipe. Fun stuff! I learned how to operate the backhoe & bobcat and drive the dumptruck. Also, used the jackhammer and did a lot of digging. Definately an experience but nothing I'd want to do again. Not at this age and not during the fall/winter months in Michigan. That experience sealed the deal on higher education! [thumbsup]
Quote from: erkishhorde on December 16, 2010, 11:05:43 PM
You can use a structural engineer?
Don't go look at the website or anything.
You can't find a job because you're not trying.
Quote from: MrIncredible on December 19, 2010, 06:15:35 PM
Don't go look at the website or anything.
You can't find a job because you're not trying.
I did look at it right after I posted that and the answer was no.
Thank you calling me a lazy bum.
Quote from: erkishhorde on December 19, 2010, 07:06:10 PM
I did look at it right after I posted that and the answer was no.
We're hiring interns, which the company pays relocation, corporate housing, and about 3-4k a month.
Quote from: MrIncredible on December 19, 2010, 07:13:27 PM
We're hiring interns, which the company pays relocation, corporate housing, and about 3-4k a month.
Is that number for enginerd interns only? :P
Quote from: humorless dp on December 19, 2010, 07:19:51 PM
Is that number for enginerd interns only? :P
Yuppers. Dye your hair and lie.
Quote from: MrIncredible on December 19, 2010, 07:13:27 PM
We're hiring interns, which the company pays relocation, corporate housing, and about 3-4k a month.
I didn't see any intern postings and all the jobs were mechs, aero, and ee. There are a wide variety of engineers and we can't all do the same stuff.
Well, since I'm just getting uninformed insults from people making assumptions based on a small amount of information now I guess it's time to lock this topic since I've gotten enough useful information. Thanks to the the ones that helped.
Quote from: MrIncredible on December 19, 2010, 06:15:35 PM
Don't go look at the website or anything.
You can't find a job because you're not trying.