anyone have a pair? what do you think of them? How did they bolt up? easy? Any problems? quality?[bacon]
I put Carrozzeria's wheels on my M1000 about 2 years ago. Here's a link to a thread about it. Pictures on page 2.
http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=24868.0 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=24868.0)
There were no problems bolting them up. You do have to run one of the rear sprockets that they want you to use. That was the only thing I can remember which was different. Quality seems really good. I haven't had any problems with the wheels. They've held up really nice. They look as good as they day I got them.
I know "twolanefun" has a set on his ST3 and a set of Dymag Carbon/Mag combo wheels on his S2R1K....I think he got em both from Ducpond and I know that Donnie has been selling the Carrozzeria's for a couple/few years now with little to no problems...
looks like they are about 8-10lbs less a set than stock. its hard to say since everyone weighs them differently, some with drives some without. march's seem to be about the same for about 25% more $. [bacon]
Quote from: atomic410 on January 24, 2011, 12:59:53 PM
looks like they are about 8-10lbs less a set than stock. its hard to say since everyone weighs them differently, some with drives some without. march's seem to be about the same for about 25% more $. [bacon]
i think that the measurements showed that carrozzeria's were the heavier of the aftermarket/performance alu wheels, but priced accordingly and substantially lighter than the OEM. Especially the 3-spoke heavy mofo's from the 90's.
iirc, weight and price go like this:
weight, lightest to heaviest
carbon (bst, dymag)
carbon-mag (dymag)
forged mag (OZ, Marvic, Marchesini)
cast mag
forged alu (lightest OZ --> Marchesini --> Carrozzeria heaviest)
oem 5 spokes and other cast alu wheels
last place: brembo 3 spoke with the fattest part of the spoke by the tire.
From motowheels/monster parts data gathering:
Quote
748-998 wheels:
BST Race CF w/ Ti doodads: Front: 4.4 lbs; Rear: 5.28 lbs
BST Street CF w/ SS doodads: Front: 4.62 lbs; Rear: 5.94 lbs.
OZ Forged Mag/Alu: Front: 7.25 lb., Rear: 8.50 lb. (Same number reported for both alu and mag, so not clear)
Carrozzeria Forged Alu: 7.5 lbs (front), 10.2 lbs (rear)
Ducati 999 Rear Wheel:
Marchesini Forged Magnesium Rear Wheel – 8.60lbs
OZ Forged Alum Rear Wheel – 10.65lbs
Marchesini Forged Alum Rear Wheel – 12.35lbs
DSS Monsters:
Carrozzeria Forged Alu: 7.8 lbs (front), 13.4 lbs (rear)
I can verify the Carrozzeria weights for DSS Monsters listed above. We did weigh the stock 2005 M1000 3 spoke wheels versus the my new Carrozzeria wheels with the cush drives on the rears. The stock front wheel was approximately 10.2 lbs. The Carrozzeria front wheel was 7.9 lbs. The stock rear wheel was 18.8 lbs. The Carrozzeria rear wheel was 13.4lbs. That adds up to a total of 7.7 lbs. We took pictures of all the wheels on the scales.
iirc, those 3 spokers are lighter still than the older 3 spokes because of which way the spokes flare out.
RichD has done this comparison when upgrading front end on the PugglePod
for 25% less I can deal with the extra pound or 2 since i'm still well ahead of the stockers. i weighed the rear on my race bike that had a slick on it and with rotor, no drive it was more than the 30lbs that my scale went up to. the tire weighs about 9lbs so i'm guessing that yes the stock is around 19-20 lbs. with drive. like i was saying its hard to know what the wheel weighs exactly because some places just weigh the wheel lacking bearings an d some weigh the whole deal, drive, bearings and spacer. 8lbs of rotating mass loss is big. unless anyone wants to buy me a set of marvics [bacon]
Quote from: a m on January 24, 2011, 03:43:29 PM
i think that the measurements showed that carrozzeria's were the heavier of the aftermarket/performance alu wheels, but priced accordingly and substantially lighter than the OEM. Especially the 3-spoke heavy mofo's from the 90's.
iirc, weight and price go like this:
weight, lightest to heaviest
carbon (bst, dymag)
carbon-mag (dymag)
forged mag (OZ, Marvic, Marchesini)
cast mag
forged alu (lightest OZ --> Marchesini --> Carrozzeria heaviest)
oem 5 spokes and other cast alu wheels
last place: brembo 3 spoke with the fattest part of the spoke by the tire.
From motowheels/monster parts data gathering:
I have thought about taking the risk with picking up some second hand cast magnesium wheels, and nearly had some OZ wheels, but the tax return didn't come thru as I planned.
The wheels on my '95 M900 come last. They are beautiful I reckon, but bloody heavy.
I have taken enough sprung weight off the bike for the heavy wheels to be bullying the rest of the bike regarding handling. I have removed 11kgs of sprung weight. In other words the sprung to unsprung weight ratio is right out of whack.
I would gain just with lighter OEM from a later model.
Oh well, it's only a street bike (I keep telling myself).
many moons ago when Norton was based in Oregon, they used these wheels on the prototypes. They are of good quality and are light. I am not sure if the UK manufacturer is still using them. I do know that BST's were fitted as well at some point during the prototyping process for product validation. Options options options.........all you need is money.
I put a BST front on my M900. Completely different motorcycle - pushing it over in turns was intuitive rather than a hassle, just really 100% "easier". But I gotta save up the small fortune for the rear to match. I'm certainly a believer in lightweight wheels. And I cannot discount the carrozzeria wheels as not being effective because they are also gobs lighter than stock. Something like the carrozzerias and then maybe the oz Alu have appeal to me - I don't see any reason to outright purchase the marchesini forged alu wheels since the OZ came out. Then after that is the price jump and weight drop to those mag wheels and carbon.
Anybody know how other brands stack up? Like PVM?
correct me if i'm wrong, but Dymag is no longer in existence as a company/mfg, right?
Apparently they are back up and running. So I saw recently. With website but no products yet listed for motos.
The Carrozeria wheels are a good value.
The only thing I didn't like about the set I handled was that the studs for the sprocket were too long and they ground them off at the factory to avoid hitting the swing arm.
Kind of a hack way to present an otherwise quality product.
Guess they gotta save a buck somewheres.
I used to "understand" the price discrepancy between the marchesini forged aluminum wheels and the carrozzerias, with the weight differences and such, but then the OZ wheels came out and cost the same but weigh less and got rave reviews in the mags, I don't see how Marchesinis can be priced the same and expected to sell. I suppose some people want the same wheel as on an "S" model, but I doubt that many are so picky when confronted with a dollar/performance option that's more favorable.
Alot of racers are not using marchesinis anymore because of how bad the cush drives are and how on some applications they only last a race weekend or 2. the replacement parts are really expensive as well and really hard to get. I'd love to get a pair of oz's but again $600 for 2-3 claimed pounds. I gotta draw the line somewhere. [bacon]
Quote from: a m on January 25, 2011, 06:40:42 AM
Guess they gotta save a buck somewheres.
I used to "understand" the price discrepancy between the marchesini forged aluminum wheels and the carrozzerias, with the weight differences and such, but then the OZ wheels came out and cost the same but weigh less and got rave reviews in the mags, I don't see how Marchesinis can be priced the same and expected to sell. I suppose some people want the same wheel as on an "S" model, but I doubt that many are so picky when confronted with a dollar/performance option that's more favorable.
It's brand recognition IMO.
Some people
have to have the most expensive because they think it's the best. In this economy the manufacturers will need to start rethinking their pricing policies.
Unless you're Toomuchmoney and work a deal with anther manufacturer so your product is the only one that will bolt on and 'work'. ;)
Quote from: a m on January 25, 2011, 06:11:43 AM
Anybody know how other brands stack up? Like PVM?
Here's some info on the PVMs from Durbahn
http://shop.durbahn.de/shop/en/products/_PVM_R%C3%A4der/PVM (http://shop.durbahn.de/shop/en/products/_PVM_R%C3%A4der/PVM)
I think i will gather info and make a spreadsheet at some point. Just for sake of curiosity and reference. It would be nice to see a $/# chart (using msrp).
One nice thing about Marchesini's is that they're around on ebay for somewhere around $1-2k used, which is a decent savings over buying them new. They're also pretty good looking compared to the Carrozzeria's or OZ's... But I've always preferred the split spoke style.
cast alm ones are easy to find not forged. 2 different types of wheels [bacon]
Quote from: atomic410 on January 27, 2011, 06:40:53 AM
cast alm ones are easy to find not forged. 2 different types of wheels [bacon]
There are plenty of forged ones on eBay too. I've been scouting bc I'm planning on buying a set...
Not for a deal - i check regularly too. If its not under 2k, its no deal for those (and even if its over 1.8k, i'm going to pass)
esp for dss monsters. 848 wheels seem easy to find, but the prices i've seen i wouldn't call a deal. 1500 is a deal anything more not so much imo [bacon]
a little follow up; the carrozzeria's weigh as follows; front 7.1lbs rear 13.1lbs. these weights are complete according to their tech support. this includes carrier and bearing with needed spacers.
afwiw I just bough a front magnesium marvic penta and it weighs 16.5lbs with a bridgestone slick and all of the necessary bearings. a front slick is about 9.5lbs so mags are about a pound less for the front, but a hell of alot more ching.[bacon]
nice!
which wheel did you end up getting? (I assume for DSS since you said carrier)
I found a used front marvic penta on the cheep and am still looking for a rear. i might put it off until i come across something in my web, but i'd prefer a matching marvic or a OZ. we'll see what happens. carrozzeria only sells sets. I was going to buy a set of magnesium dymags but their weighs are within a pound or 2 of the stockers so it didn't seem worth it. i'm not in a big hurry because i might build a 800/900ss next winter then the rear wheel would be obsolite however the front will cross over. maybe i'm cheep but these wheels are a big investment to me so I'd like to get as much use on as many bikes as possible or at least know what i'm doing next season before i get a rear, unless i find one cheep. [bacon]
I did just a BST front on my M900 (it was used and a good deal, budget allowed at the time). I'm slowly saving for the matching rear, but in the meantime I couldn't wait - I went on put the front BST on the bike. WOW. Big difference in turning the bike. (Can't say much about braking as the 6-piston ISR calipers went on at the same time and there aren't many hills around here where you'd be doing a lot of down-hill braking - the Monster only gets going so fast afterall...)
not that i'm saying, go on and get that front wheel, but don't talk yourself out of it.
With Carrozzeria - what happens if you bend a front on a pothole on the street? Gotta buy a new set? That's not cool.
Quote from: atomic410 on February 22, 2011, 01:21:40 PM
I found a used front marvic penta on the cheep and am still looking for a rear. i might put it off until i come across something in my web, but i'd prefer a matching marvic or a OZ. we'll see what happens. carrozzeria only sells sets. I was going to buy a set of magnesium dymags but their weighs are within a pound or 2 of the stockers so it didn't seem worth it. i'm not in a big hurry because i might build a 800/900ss next winter then the rear wheel would be obsolite however the front will cross over. maybe i'm cheep but these wheels are a big investment to me so I'd like to get as much use on as many bikes as possible or at least know what i'm doing next season before i get a rear, unless i find one cheep. [bacon]
why would the rear be obsolete on the SS?
axle size. however i could pay for new guts for it. I did buy the marvic front just putting off the rear for now [bacon]
Quote from: atomic410 on February 22, 2011, 02:23:56 PM
axle size. however i could pay for new guts for it. I did buy the marvic front just putting off the rear for now [bacon]
hooray
Quote from: a m on February 22, 2011, 01:38:36 PM
With Carrozzeria - what happens if you bend a front on a pothole on the street? Gotta buy a new set? That's not cool.
Um, you can just call up carrozzeria and buy a single wheel....
I think they only sell sets to the public. maybe a dealer can get you singles? not sure. I got the impression they only sell singles when its for a returning customer as replacement. i tried to buy a single front 998 wheel since they had the sets on clearence and they said they couldn't split them, maybe it was due to the clearence status, not sure. so does anyone know if you can just buy the guts for marvics, like if i wanted to switch a set of wheels to another bike? I think you can with marchesini.[bacon]
Quote from: a m on February 22, 2011, 01:38:36 PM
I did just a BST front on my M900
I might be selling the BST wheels off of my 98 900SS FE project bike.
Contact matt@motowheels.com if you are interested.
I want to put OZ wheels on it.
-M
YES
and bombs away with an email.
Yesterday i was at a bike show
And there was a 696 with spoke wheels
(http://supertjeduc.zenfolio.com/img/s1/v20/p578523659-4.jpg)
(http://supertjeduc.zenfolio.com/img/s1/v20/p867260739-4.jpg)
(http://supertjeduc.zenfolio.com/img/s1/v19/p650362952-4.jpg)
The rims are DID and the innerthings (how do you call those things in englisch) are cnc Aluminium
The wheels are tubeless and could be used with the normal brake callipers
It was a prototype , guy thought they would cost about 2000â,¬
I would guess these spoke wheels are a hell of alot heiver than the stock 3 spokes. I read an article about the guys racing paul smarts at daytona and how the bikes were pigs with the stock spoked wheels so they put mag's or carrozzeria's on them. I just put marchesini's on my supermotard and the weight difference is huge compaired to the excels that were on it. plus now the tard is tubeless [bacon]
Quote from: atomic410 on February 28, 2011, 09:48:09 AM
I would guess these spoke wheels are a hell of alot heiver than the stock 3 spokes. I read an article about the guys racing paul smarts at daytona and how the bikes were pigs with the stock spoked wheels so they put mag's or carrozzeria's on them. I just put marchesini's on my supermotard and the weight difference is huge compaired to the excels that were on it. plus now the tard is tubeless [bacon]
We swapped the spoked wheels/tubes/steel sprocket on our Sport classic for BST wheels/tubeless tires/alum sprocket.
We saved nearly 30 lbs. It was a huge difference in handling, braking, turn-in and ride quality. The lighter wheels eliminated the head shake too.
(http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e344/Motowheelscom/Motowheels%20Sport%20Classic/SCRS.jpg)
We now have OZ wheels on it
(http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e344/Motowheelscom/Motowheels%20Sport%20Classic/photo.jpg)
-M
I was so close to pulling the trigger on the OZ or Carrozzeria when I started the rebuild. wish i had.
but those wirewheels on the 696.. [thumbsdown]
holy sh*t 30lbs in rotational weight is insane [bacon]
One of the reasons why I got rid of my sport classic is because the handling is just garbage. It all originates from the absurdly heavy wheels with even more absurdly heavy tubes inside them. Next is the crappy non adjustable forks.
At the end of the day you have to make so many changes to a sport classic to make it a nice ride that its hardly worth it, and barely looks like a retro bike anymore anyway. IMO.
The frontwheel was 4 kg and they were tubeless
They are supermoto wheels so i don't think they are bad
I think I've seen other tubeless spokers out there for sale too - with lightweight hubs & rims
Quote from: supertjeduc on February 28, 2011, 02:28:57 PM
The frontwheel was 4 kg and they were tubeless
They are supermoto wheels so i don't think they are bad
thats about what a stock 3 spoke front wheel is. my excel supermoto wheels with the excel hubs were suprisingly lighter than what i thought they would be, the excel rim i have laced to a stock yamaha yz450f hub was quite abit heavier. obvously alot of weight is the hub. the marchesini i put on it is tubeless and assembled weighs about 6lbs less, no tube. I'm tired of tubes wearing out.[bacon]
and for 2000 euros, (about 3g us i think now?) i'd get some BST's or marvics[bacon]
+1. Moto has a set of take-off BSTs for anyone interested. My old lady says "we don't need them right now".
(when WILL we need them, then? Tomorrow? I want to plan ahead)
as a wise turtle once said.
the past is history
the future is a mystery
but today is a gift, that is why it is called the present
Quote from: a m on March 01, 2011, 07:12:08 AM
+1. Moto has a set of take-off BSTs for anyone interested. My old lady says "we don't need them right now".
(when WILL we need them, then? Tomorrow? I want to plan ahead)
for monster or ss? my old lady doesn't need to know what we need that stays in the garage. lol[bacon]
either.
25mm front with spacers for 20mm axle
17mm rear (5.5 or 5.75" width - its off their 900 SS FE project and I've read that the 6.0" rear for the 17mm axle will not fit the SS, only the M/851/888 swingarms)
I emailed with Matt @ Motowheels.
The BST wheels should be a 5.75 rear
(http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e344/Motowheelscom/900FE/IMG_7316.jpg)
(http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e344/Motowheelscom/900FE/IMG_7303.jpg)
I'm waiting for some silver OZ wheels to come in for that bike.
-M
sweet wheels! too bad the rear is the wrong axle size for me. [bacon]
good googely moogely that FE is easy on the eyes! (everytime I mean, its not like I haven't seen it before. A bunch of times...)
Quote from: moto on March 01, 2011, 01:35:52 PM
...
I'm waiting for some silver OZ wheels to come in for that bike.
-M
New colors on the way?
BK
Quote from: BK_856er on March 01, 2011, 11:13:32 PM
New colors on the way?
BK
Black and Gold are the two standard anodized colors.
They can be special ordered in most any color. We also paint them - which is what I might do to match the fairings.
-M