Ducati Monster Forum

i just wired up my LED turn signals and everything went fine. getting at the wiring was a pain, requiring the removal of both headlight bucket and instrument cluster, but the wiring itself was straight forward. first i connected the right signal and then tested it. it worked, along with its rear counterpart (Vizi-Tec integrated LED). then i connected the left and tested it, then tested them both, with the same result: everything worked. left signal, both front and back; right signal, both front and back. then i plugged in the instrument cluster...my blinkers have become flashers (front and rear). wtf?? thinking i might have screwed up some wiring, possibly causing a short while "rearranging" things to remount the instruments, i disconnected the harness from the instrument cluster then tested again. no dice. everything worked fine once the instruments were out of the equation. any ideas? ???

okay, this much i know: i haven't done anything wrong. something to do with a relay in the instrument cluster is my best guess? i have to either perform surgery on the cluster, or snap a pin off the harness. i'm sure someone is going to chew me a new one for suggesting the latter, but seriously....can anyone tell me which pin?  [evil]

stay out of the cluster. the risk of destroying that cluster is far greater than the very slight possibility that A) the problem has anything to do with it and B) that if the problem IS in there its something that its something that can be fixed at all, let alone by the home mechanic.

look at everything you did. every connector you touched, every wire you tugged...thats where your problem will be. did you get the polarities right? is anything else affected (high/low, starting, horn,parking lights..). do the LEDs have the needed resistors?



worst case scenario, take it to a shop. it may cost more than you thought but even 200$ to have THEM fix it is cheap compared to say, destroying a cluster and everything that would entail...

Isnt the flasher unit an integral part of the instrument cluster on this model?   Or did I imagine that?

Don't even understand why in the world you would have disconnected the cluster just to change a couple of signal blinkers.  I am guessing that just maybe you bent one or two pins when reconnecting the instrument gauge cluster.  Disconnect it again and make sure you don't have a bent pin.  Could you have accidentally bumped the emergency flashers button?  Have you checked it?  Sometimes it's the littlest things that you miss.

Yep, it's just a big circuit board in there.  No relays.  I only know because I recently changed out my bezel.  I would not mess with it at all unless I was some kind of electronics engineer.

Sooooooooo.... since the flasher unit is part of the gauge cluster... how on earth has the OP been able to get his new turn signals to flash at all without the cluster connected  ??? 

Good question.  or light for that matter.  I'm confuseled.

He said he connected the cluster back up after testing everything.


Wait, just got an email from him stating that it is a "2001 Monster 900s i.e. with PC lll and VisiTech integrated tail light".

I was thinking of my bike which is a 2007 S2R800.  I believe the 2001 900 has a seperate blinker relay which is located near the battery.  Maybe the relay went bad?

yeah, i found those. unplugging the one towards the rear had no effect at all. i replaced it and removed the frontmost relay and when i operated the signal switch NOTHING worked with or without the cluster connected. by nothing i mean signals or instrument lights. put it back and everything worked again, as in i still have the original issue (4 ways). so yeah, maybe one of these is no good....nope, no dice. i switched these (front to rear), repeated the test with the same result. FML

throw a set of resistors on.
or re-attach one set of bulb signals on left and right (doesnt matter front or back) to test a low-load condition.

AFAIK, 01 doesnt have the flashers controlled by the ECU, there is an actual flasher box.
either way, resistors is probably the fix to what ails ya
also- test your signals with the bike running. sometimes it acts funny just on battery

can't run it. pipes are off it. that would be loud. besides, the ECU probly wouldn't let it happen enyways. lol

reattaching the bulb signals wouldn't go so very smoothly either. i finalized everything with shrink tubing.

Is the ignition key turned all the way to the right past where it says ON?  I think that may be the hazards.  Sorry, don't really know and just throwing ideas out there.

Sounds like it may end up being either the flasher relay as I mentioned before or the need for resistors as Jeff mentioned.  

Are all your signals LED now?  If so, you definitely need more resistance on the current.  If you don't want to do the whole resistor thing, I recall there being relays for your model bike that provide the necessary higher resistance without having to install the in-line resistors.

+1

'01 M900 needs a pair of resistors for LED turn signals to operate properly.

Flashers are controlled by a relay, located under the seat, you can hear it clicking.
'01 M900 has flasher in the instrument cluster, just checked a customer bike in my shop.  :P

Be mindful of how you mount the resistors, they get *very* hot when the blinkers are on.

The 01's don't have a seperate flasher relay, it is built into the gauge cluster.  Rawr01 the relays you were messing with are the main and safety relays, that's why nothing worked when you removed it.

I think the issue is that it is back feeding through the indicator light in the cluster, this is something I was warned about when I had my 2000 Dark.  It's fine when you have one set of LED blinkers, it only happens when you swap all of them to LEDs.  I don't remember totally but I think you need to wire in diodes somewhere to keep it from feeding through the cluster light.  Reference the following link on how to wire in the diodes

http://www.triumphrat.net/twins-technical-talk/154473-dash-light-signal-diodes-question.html (http://www.triumphrat.net/twins-technical-talk/154473-dash-light-signal-diodes-question.html)

You should probably try putting in some resistors first, because you have only a little load from the Vizi-tec taillight and nothing from the front signals.  The resistors may fix the problem, if not buy the diode kit from Kuryakyn and try it out.

Nope, separate relay under the seat.  The change was in '02,You might need to run a diode back to the indicator light as Schwanger said.  An electronic relay like this one from http://wwwca-cycleworks.com (http://wwwca-cycleworks.com) might work without resistors, no guarantee.  If you call Chris and tell him what you are running he might be able to help.

sounz like a very complicated solution to a simple problem. s'pose one of the leads to the indicator light were cut? how badly do i need a dim little light on my dash to tell me that the very bright lights right by my hands are flashing? am i missing something, or would this approach, while not as elegant, solve the problem?

You would have an open circuit and no signals.  Chances are good the backfeed would no longer be a problem with resisters or an electronic relay.  If you are going through that work of snipping wires, why not add diodes?

Now that I know what's going on (you might have pointed me to this thread when you PMed me  [roll])

I have no make the beast with two backsing clue.

Looking at the wiring harness for this, it appears there's always some cross-over in the instrument panel between the two sets of lights.

Essentially, the instrument panel does act as a "short" between the two sets (left and right) and must allow some current to go between the two sets in order to light up the indicator. However, I'm guessing that now that you have LEDs (which require a lower voltage to work) there's enough residual voltage to still make the other side flash?

Anyway, if you want to disconnect the flasher indicator altogether, just disconnect either the E or F connector from the gauge (White/Green or White/Black wires)

If you want to make it still work, do what Schwanger suggests in the thread:
http://www.triumphrat.net/twins-technical-talk/154473-dash-light-signal-diodes-question.html (http://www.triumphrat.net/twins-technical-talk/154473-dash-light-signal-diodes-question.html)

White/Green or White/Black wires are the indicator wires that should go into diodes

For a ground wire you can tie into the Black wire.

Also, for the record, the flasher control is NOT in the instument cluster on the '01 bikes.

I guarantee that it does not have a separate relay under the seat.  The reason I know is that is my old bike and I looked to replace the relay with an electronic one.

(http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm276/hlep2890/bike/IMG_0228-3.jpg)

My '01.

The shop manual and the wiring diagram also agree with me.  No flasher, either the bike is not an '01 or it has been modified.

Not this 01.  All the fuses and relays are under the tank.  I don't doubt that Ducati wired the bikes differently.

its barely perceptable to the eye, but my camera picked it up. one is brighter than the other and i was flashing right in this shot. supports what you say about an "almost short"
(http://i1030.photobucket.com/albums/y367/Rawr2001/2011-02-06211720.jpg)
i still have to go through all of the info and check those links. meanwhile i went ahead and ordered the Oberon resistors from Motowheels. don't need 'em?

nothing under the seat. fuse block, battery, relays, all under the tank and appear OEM.

what you are describing is what happens when you don't put in resistors.   otherwise they all blink and act weird.

Edited my previous post, '01 M900 indeed has all the stuff under the tank.

I maintain my first response, though, put some resistors on it.

Yeah, I'm with you (and others)

If you maintain the "old" resistance to the blinkers you should get the "old" behavior.

And I insist that I am hereby smarter than speeddog and monkey, cuz i said resistors first, and they just agreed with me.  ;D

post #1(after OP), just sayin..... ;D

Dude, that's like proclaiming "I'm taller than a midget!"  ;D

I stand corrected.

And I am shorter than some of the taller midgets....

so. what i got is i was on the right track...sort of. i can clip a wire and it would work, at the sacrifice of an indicator light, which seems kind of redundant in this situation (super bright amber LED arrays), but that is what a hack would do and i kinda know it. so i order a 13$ part, be patient, and do it right, which is what a mechanic would do.....well since that's kinda what i wanna be when i grow up i s'pose that'll be the route i take. besides, i'm kind of a perfectionist and that dormant light would prob'ly start to piss me of after a while. i've ordered the resistors. any tips on their installation? those relays also sound good, if they work as described. think i'll order those too and see wha's what.
thanks for all the excellent feedback. i will post the results and pics

by the way...
(http://i1030.photobucket.com/albums/y367/Rawr2001/2011-02-08114412.jpg)
nothin under there but a PC lll

so after reading all the posts and looking at things and a sleepless night, here's what i got: in the original configuration current passes through the indicator light seeking a ground. to my limitted knowledge this is, by definition, a short, right? since light bulbs operate by converting electrical energy into heat energy, they also act as resistors? this resistance (a) kept the current down a bit, and (b) makes bulbs harder to light than, say, LEDs. how'm i doin' so far? so...whatever current managed to make its way past the indicator, though insufficient to light the bulbs on the opposite side of the circuit, is adequate to light the indicator? but since the current requirements of LEDs are rilly rilly not very big, this "leak" is more than sufficient to light them?

i read and rethunk things over and came up withe the idea that installing the resistors would only serve to recreate a set of circumstances that allowed the whole system to function despite what was essentially a flaw. besides, the resistors are kinda ugly and i rilly don't want to chop the nice shiny Vizi-tec harness. it seems the problem is that current was being allowed to travel in the wrong direction. so its a question of how to correct this issue and keep the current on the right path. i'm not 100% sure, but i think the English words correct, right, and direction all come from the Germen rechts. so i decided the best idea was to rectify the situation. lol. i got a pair of diodes at R-Shack (1N4001), some shrink tube, and some solder then got to work.

first step was to (gasp!!) disassemble (no disassemble jonny5) the instrument cluster. here's that:

(http://i1030.photobucket.com/albums/y367/Rawr2001/2011-02-08100315.jpg)

then i snipped and stripped both wires from the signal indicator light (white/green and white/black) and one black wire (they're all good). i twisted one of the leads from the bulb to the ground, then connected each (+) lead (anode) from the diodes to the leads coming from the wiring harness and twisted the remaining lead from the bulb to the (-) leads (cathode) or both diodes.

here's my schema:
(http://i1030.photobucket.com/albums/y367/Rawr2001/2011-02-08132622-1.jpg)

and here's the test assembly:
(http://i1030.photobucket.com/albums/y367/Rawr2001/2011-02-08121319.jpg)

before making it official with solder and shrink tubing i brought the whole mess out to the garage, borrowed a pair of hands, hooked it up, and tested it. i'm a fn genius. it worked.  8)

the rest of these pics are pretty self explanatory:

(http://i1030.photobucket.com/albums/y367/Rawr2001/2011-02-08123324.jpg)

(http://i1030.photobucket.com/albums/y367/Rawr2001/2011-02-08124747.jpg)

(http://i1030.photobucket.com/albums/y367/Rawr2001/2011-02-08130558.jpg)

(http://i1030.photobucket.com/albums/y367/Rawr2001/2011-02-08131440.jpg)

(http://i1030.photobucket.com/albums/y367/Rawr2001/2011-02-08131352.jpg)

i could've snipped a wire or pulled the bulb like i said (pssssst. i tried it w/o the bulb and it worked. lol), but because of all the feedback i got on here i did it the not so easy, but betterer way and i am pretty freakin proud of myself rite now, but i owe a big thanx to all who steered me away from the wrong direction.  [bow_down] [beer]  

No large resistors to worry about overheating...you da man! [thumbsup]

Nice job!   [thumbsup]  Definately much cleaner than the resistors solution.

BTW - The internals on your cluster are nothing like mine.  I think it would have been near impossible to use the same solution.  I just have a big single circuit board which I would never even try to modify.

awesome solution for older style monsters, definitely wouldn't work in any of the 02+ models [thumbsup]

 [thumbsup]

The diode route is the way I went, since I have an aftermarket gauge (and was doing all the wiring myself anyway)

I'm in the same mess, but I want a quick fix before MotoGP -Laguna this weekend.

I think I'm going to just pull the indicator bulb in the cluster and see if this works....

http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=64254.msg1185296#msg1185296 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=64254.msg1185296#msg1185296)


Same deal.
1. Replaced all 4 signals with LED
2. Tried using LED Flash relay (Novita ES35 is the latest one)
3. SAME: All 4 are blinking like hazard.. which isn't really that bad since I commute on the Bay Bridge..lol)

But Its really bugging me so I will try and pull the bulb out. But later on I may try the Diode way as well...

1999 Monster 900 City (old Rectangle Instrument Cluster)

UPDATE:

Pulled the bulb out..

Worked great. then took it on the freeway, and blew the fuse (7.5). Replaced fuse and blew again.

when blown, I lost tail light and all instrument / signal.

Still had Headlight and brake light.

I will check all wiring this week.

Thanks

The big single circuit board is actually very easy to modify.

http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=56614.msg1166122#msg1166122 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=56614.msg1166122#msg1166122)

You've got bare wiring somewhere.