Ducati Monster Forum

Moto Board => Tech => Topic started by: Blue on February 08, 2011, 09:10:17 AM

Title: Rotor differences?
Post by: Blue on February 08, 2011, 09:10:17 AM
What are the difference between the following rotors (weight, floating, etc) besides the looks?
#1
(http://www.ducati.ms/forums/attachments/parts-accessories/81069d1291702706-fs-ducati-748-916-996-998-rotors-p1030815.jpg)
#2
(http://www.ducati.ms/forums/attachments/sport-classic/83472d1295738682-front-brake-rotor-question-imag0616.jpg)
#3
(http://www.ducati.ms/forums/attachments/parts-accessories/83379d1295624448-wtb-748-996-front-rotor-5310-031.jpg)
Title: Re: Rotor differences?
Post by: Speeddog on February 08, 2011, 09:35:55 AM
I'm pretty sure all of them are semi-floating.

#1 - heaviest - 4mm thick rotor - carrier is steel - 1822g for a worn-out one, thickness below minimum of 3.6mm

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/692/22369928556_84a1d46404_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/A5KJpo)

#2 - slightly lighter -  4mm thick rotor - carrier is steel - 1684g for a low-miles unit, 1710g brand new

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5739/21773157074_a9c720863a_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/zb282U)

#3 - lightest - Carrier is definitely aluminum, that style is known as 'snowflake' - 5mm thick rotor - 1664g brand new

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/750/22406704541_07715d3933_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/A91dC6)

#4 - Even lighter - BrakeTech 320mm dia x 6mm thick semi-narrow band iron full floater - 1586g brand new

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3781/11359508575_e3a4a29958_o.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/79721557@N02/11359508575/)

#5 - Small rotor from S2R800, M695, some M620 300mm x 4mm - 1578g used

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5775/22395908135_d1a4fd181e_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/A83Tea)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Brembo T-drive 320mm diA x 5mm thick narrow band  5-bolt - 1485g brand new

BONUS - Chinese 'wave' rotor -5mm thick rotor - aluminum carrier - 1436g brand new

BONUS - Just 'cause I had one - Rear OEM Monster Brembo rotor - 876g brand new

( Off Brand, OEM Yamaha 320mm stainless blade, 5mmm thick, aluminum carrier - 1822g )
Title: Re: Rotor differences?
Post by: battlecry on February 08, 2011, 11:26:39 AM
Speeddog, I got #2s in my 2003, and a magnet sticks to the carrier. 
Title: Re: Rotor differences?
Post by: Speeddog on February 08, 2011, 12:30:55 PM
Quote from: battlecry on February 08, 2011, 11:26:39 AM
Speeddog, I got #2s in my 2003, and a magnet sticks to the carrier. 

Thanks, I went back and edited/added to my post.  [beer]
Title: Re: Rotor differences?
Post by: junior varsity on February 08, 2011, 01:20:57 PM
Yes. I would like to add that the 'swiss cheese' rotors of #1 suck the most. (not just because they weigh a ridiculous amount, but that's a good bit of it).
Title: Re: Rotor differences?
Post by: erkishhorde on February 08, 2011, 05:30:53 PM
Quote from: a m on February 08, 2011, 01:20:57 PM
Yes. I would like to add that the 'swiss cheese' rotors of #1 suck the most. (not just because they weigh a ridiculous amount, but that's a good bit of it).

Dang, that's what I've had on my bike for years.  :-[
Title: Re: Rotor differences?
Post by: junior varsity on February 08, 2011, 05:51:22 PM
i mean, same here, but in regards to the latest and the greatest, the latest and greatest are later and greater.
Title: Re: Rotor differences?
Post by: koko64 on February 08, 2011, 08:35:19 PM
Anyone know what the old SBK/Superlight/Monster S cast iron rotors weigh with the alloy carriers?
Title: Re: Rotor differences?
Post by: Speeddog on February 08, 2011, 08:38:31 PM
BrakeTech are indeed good parts, I really like mine.  :)

But.... the Brembos shown above are available for ~1/2 the cost.
Title: Re: Rotor differences?
Post by: junior varsity on February 08, 2011, 09:18:59 PM
Quote from: Carbon 14 on February 08, 2011, 08:30:39 PM
None of the above make much sense to me.  BrakeTech is the only setup that floats fully yet transfers the braking force directly.  Better by design & the weight is low.

Guess you haven't seen t-drive yet.
Title: Re: Rotor differences?
Post by: Blue on February 09, 2011, 10:52:03 AM
Wow, thanks everyone for taking the time to respond.  The weights are what I was after most, but also braking performance was important. 
I have rotors #2 on my scoot.
I am just thinking about mods to the bike, both short and long term.
The suspension is done (Ohlins rear and racetech front) and I have started doing track days. 
Unsprung weight is on my mind!
Title: Re: Rotor differences?
Post by: junior varsity on February 09, 2011, 11:02:07 AM
when you decide money is no object, please get the sicom carbon rotors (and let me borrow your bike on occasion)


done wheels yet?
Title: Re: Rotor differences?
Post by: Blue on February 09, 2011, 11:44:56 AM
Quote from: a m on February 09, 2011, 11:02:07 AM
when you decide money is no object, please get the sicom carbon rotors (and let me borrow your bike on occasion)
I hope you don't mind waiting a long time...
Quote
done wheels yet?
No, not yet. 
I am a bit on the fence with the wheels.  I have the 25/17 axle combo.
I have looked at BST, Carrozzeria and Pierre's SS 5 spoke wheels for an upgrade, but I dunno.  A couple grand for wheels, a grand for brakes, a grand for forks/triples, half grand for a steering damper equals more money than a track bike would cost. :-\ 
But a track bike isn't my Monster... [moto]
Title: Re: Rotor differences?
Post by: junior varsity on February 09, 2011, 11:54:06 AM
that's my same thoughts re: the bike versus a separate track bike.

I've got the same wheel/axle combo as you (after some front end upgrades) - 25/17

if you do it a wheel at a time, you can fit any 748-916-996-998, late Monster or SS wheel - they are all 6-bolt, 25mm axle hole. then just find a 17mm axle hole rear.
Title: Re: Rotor differences?
Post by: Blue on February 09, 2011, 12:02:41 PM
Quote from: a m on February 09, 2011, 11:54:06 AM
that's my same thoughts re: the bike versus a separate track bike.

I've got the same wheel/axle combo as you (after some front end upgrades) - 25/17

if you do it a wheel at a time, you can fit any 748-916-996-998, late Monster or SS wheel - they are all 6-bolt, 25mm axle hole. then just find a 17mm axle hole rear.
Cool, that is an option for sure. 
Off to eBay for me!
Before I do, do you have or know where to find the weight differences between the original 3 spoke, newer 3 spoke (which I have) and 5 spoke wheels that came stock on Ducatis?
Title: Re: Rotor differences?
Post by: junior varsity on February 09, 2011, 12:06:22 PM
iirc the 5 spokes are lighter than the 3's but I got no numbers to go with that, but I know RichD had equipped the newer 3 spoke on his SS (which originally also had 3-spokes) because the newer 3-spokes are  tapered by the rim rather than at the hub, making the moi less because there would be less mass out at the edge - i believe they were also lighter, but didn't ask him if he had weighed them.


if you look around you may find a set or individual forged alu 5-spokes or cast/forged mag 5-spokes - you may have to get one used off eBay and go to the likes of Motowheels or Yoyodyne to acquire a matching rear wheel (or front wheel, vice-a-versa)
Title: Re: Rotor differences?
Post by: junior varsity on February 09, 2011, 06:08:33 PM
Quote from: Carbon 14 on February 09, 2011, 04:15:53 PM
...or I don't get too excited about something that isn't available for my bike (or theOP's for that matter).

It is available in 320 6 bolt and 5 bolt, what do you have?

See Post Below for part numbers (300xx) for pretty much all modern Ducati models except the oddball multistrada or wee-brakes of the S2R800/695/SC, etc.
Title: Re: Rotor differences?
Post by: junior varsity on February 09, 2011, 06:19:58 PM
Brembo T-Drive for 6-bolt wheels, 320mm diameter (30055) here (http://www.oppracing.com/product_display/30055-brembo-high-performance-t-drive-front-floating-rotor-kit-320mm/) (Ducati 916-996-998-748, M600-900, M620-1000, S2R1000, S4, S4R, various Bimota and Aprilia etc etc)

Brembo T-Drive for 5-bolt wheels, 320mm diameter (30068) here (http://www.oppracing.com/product_display/30068-brembo-high-performance-t-drive-front-floating-rotor-kit-320mm/) (Ducati 848-1098-1198, 749-999, S4RS, M1100S, SF)

Brembo T-Drive for Hypermotard/Monster 1100 (30071) here (http://www.oppracing.com/product_display/30071-brembo-high-performance-t-drive-front-floating-rotor-kit-320mm/)


(http://www.oppracing.com/image.php?image=P1050342_1288836329.jpg)

Those links are to OPP, but you can have your local dealership order them for you through Yoyodyne or TAW, or call up the good folks at Desmoworks or Motowheels and they'll do it.
Title: Re: Rotor differences?
Post by: erkishhorde on February 09, 2011, 06:40:17 PM
Ooh, sexy. $800 is a lot. Is that a typical price for rotors? I haven't researched at all so I have no idea.
Title: Re: Rotor differences?
Post by: junior varsity on February 09, 2011, 07:27:19 PM
High but not unreasonable. Carbon rotors go for 3k (braketech's future pricing and sicom) avg price is between 5-650.
Title: Re: Rotor differences?
Post by: Speeddog on February 09, 2011, 08:55:51 PM
Have to say, that T-drive looks very much like 1990's HRC rotors, except the rotors aren't vented.
Title: Re: Rotor differences?
Post by: junior varsity on February 09, 2011, 09:04:07 PM
Which ones is those? Got a pic?

I understand the price discrimination from the regular HP rotors but that better come down to the normal 660 when they are done with the conventional design to sell these
Title: Re: Rotor differences?
Post by: Speeddog on February 09, 2011, 09:11:36 PM
They're moto-porn.  [bacon]

I'll get a pic tomorrow.
Title: Re: Rotor differences?
Post by: Blue on February 10, 2011, 08:21:50 AM
So, is anyone using the snowflake (#3) rotor on their scoot?  I did a bit of searching and found some posts regarding the aluminum carriers warping easily due to heat.  Anyone?

I have been thinking about converting my rotors (#2) to full floating with the ol' hammer and socket method.  I tried turning the buttons the other day and some turned easily, some not so much.  So, if they have to come off for cleaning it may be time to float them as well...

Speaking of floating rotors, any use these buttons off of the MotoWheels website?
SPIEGLER "Free Floating" Brake Rotor Button: 5mm (http://www.motowheels.com/italian/myProducts.cfm?parentcategoryid=1651%7CMonster%20Brakes&productID=3198&showDetail=1&categoryID=646%7CMonster%20Rotors&vendoridtodisplay=0&filterFor=&collection=168%7CEuropean%20Motorcycle%20Parts)
They say you could remove a 0.5 pounds of unsprung weight with just these buttons replacing the stock steel buttons.  Anyone?
Title: Re: Rotor differences?
Post by: junior varsity on February 10, 2011, 08:27:29 AM
i've not used those (just decided to replace the rotors altogether) but I've seen rotors with STM buttons and TPO buttons as well.
Title: Re: Rotor differences?
Post by: Speeddog on February 10, 2011, 09:09:48 AM
AFAIK, all Monsters '02 - '05 or so used the snowflake rotors.

Some bikes developed warped rotors, some didn't.
From what I saw, it bore no correlation to how the bikes were used.
Some folks have had success cleaning the buttons to 'cure' a warped rotor.
Others, an aggressive cleaning of the working surface to remove the pad deposition layer seems to do it.
And others have 'floated' the OEM buttons or installed aftermarket.

The cost of a set of those buttons is over half of what a brand new snowflake costs....just sayin'.

Title: Re: Rotor differences?
Post by: ducpainter on February 10, 2011, 09:24:18 AM
Quote from: Blue on February 10, 2011, 08:21:50 AM
So, is anyone using the snowflake (#3) rotor on their scoot?  I did a bit of searching and found some posts regarding the aluminum carriers warping easily due to heat.  Anyone?

I have been thinking about converting my rotors (#2) to full floating with the ol' hammer and socket method.  I tried turning the buttons the other day and some turned easily, some not so much.  So, if they have to come off for cleaning it may be time to float them as well...

Speaking of floating rotors, any use these buttons off of the MotoWheels website?
SPIEGLER "Free Floating" Brake Rotor Button: 5mm (http://www.motowheels.com/italian/myProducts.cfm?parentcategoryid=1651%7CMonster%20Brakes&productID=3198&showDetail=1&categoryID=646%7CMonster%20Rotors&vendoridtodisplay=0&filterFor=&collection=168%7CEuropean%20Motorcycle%20Parts)
They say you could remove a 0.5 pounds of unsprung weight with just these buttons replacing the stock steel buttons.  Anyone?
I have snowflakes on both my bikes.

The ones on the monster are home floated. I like the results, and the carriers don't carry enough heat to warp. IMO that's bs. The biggest problem with rotors on street bikes is heat soak in isolated spots due to sitting at traffic lights with the front brake applied. The area under the pads can't release the heat and becomes harder than the surrounding area. This area now wears slower and results in pulsation from uneven rotor wear.

The set on my 996 are loaners so I can't float them, but with the 4 pad calipers the brakes are all I need.
Title: Re: Rotor differences?
Post by: Blue on February 10, 2011, 10:32:16 AM
Excellent information; I really appreciate it! [thumbsup]

I went to the Yoyodyne website to look at the options from OEM Brembo options. (http://www.yoyodyneti.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=08.2003.84)
The cost decreases as the weight decreases!

#1
320mm Ducati Disc- Steel Carrier - Brembo (http://www.yoyodyneti.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=08.4899.82)
$151.88 ea
(http://www.yoyodyneti.com/images/400web/brembo/br_08_4899_82.jpg)

#2
320mm x4 Ducati Monster Brembo brake disc (http://www.yoyodyneti.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=08.4899.93)
$142.33 ea
(http://www.yoyodyneti.com/images/400web/brembo/br_08_4899_93.jpg)

#3
320mm x 5 Snowflake Rotor Assy Ducati - Yamaha Brembo (http://www.yoyodyneti.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=08.2003.84)
$139.75 ea
(http://www.yoyodyneti.com/images/400web/brembo/br_08_4899_91.jpg)
Title: Re: Rotor differences?
Post by: junior varsity on February 10, 2011, 10:37:57 AM
indeed!


I think I may add this to a project 'wiki' for our faq/tutorials section where we can compile the list of options - rotors, pads, clutches - all wear parts and maintenance items - a handy reference distinguishing price points, features, etc would be nice.
Title: Re: Rotor differences?
Post by: Speeddog on February 10, 2011, 04:01:09 PM
Circa 1990 HRC Factory rotors; 10mm thick vented cast iron, full floating.

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4081/5434948778_f63ed073ee_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/26339726@N03/5434948778/)
Title: Re: Rotor differences?
Post by: junior varsity on February 10, 2011, 04:10:33 PM
gee whiz. those things are neat.   I have to imagine that they are pretty heavy, but had to have been very effective.
Title: Re: Rotor differences?
Post by: koko64 on February 10, 2011, 04:16:13 PM
Were they on the 'Super' RVF 750 Formula 1 bike?
Title: Re: Rotor differences?
Post by: Speeddog on February 10, 2011, 04:25:02 PM
Likely a good bit heavier than a set of BrakeTechs, but certainly still pegs the bling-meter.

Dunno what all they were mounted on, that particular set was on an RC-30.
Title: Re: Rotor differences?
Post by: Speeddog on February 17, 2011, 03:41:05 PM
Updated my previous post with weight of Snowflake front and OEM rear DSS Brembo rotor.

http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=46268.msg838965#msg838965 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=46268.msg838965#msg838965)
Title: Re: Rotor differences?
Post by: junior varsity on February 17, 2011, 03:49:45 PM
I will grab one of these new rotors I just got in and find a way to get its weight soon.

Its the BCM Iron rotors on eBay - has brembo iron rotor (the not-the-carrier-part-where-the-pad-contacts) part with their designed (BCM/Antron) carrier, and full floating buttons.

They feel SUBSTANTIALLY lighter than the swiss cheese. Quite happy since it was a hell of a bargain too (one could conceivably comparison shop at the price of the same "brembo" rotor, though the weights will be different due to the different carrier, but are otherwise identical).

Anygay, I will carry one to my wife's work tomorrow when I drop off surprise flowers and steal a brief intimate moment with their postage scale.


In other news, Sir SpeedDog, look what I found on the internets (I thought I had run out of internets, i was wrong):

(http://www.carpimoto.it/Images/Products/zoom/bb_XA0J4_Z.jpg)
http://www.carpimoto.it/IT/Freni/Dischi/Page_10/28092_XA0J434-Disco-Freno-Racing-Autoventilante-Brembo-XA0-J4-34.htm (http://www.carpimoto.it/IT/Freni/Dischi/Page_10/28092_XA0J434-Disco-Freno-Racing-Autoventilante-Brembo-XA0-J4-34.htm)
from parent window here, at very bottom LH/RH discs:
http://www.carpimoto.it/IT/Freni/Dischi/Page_10/28038_BBR-Prodotti-Brembo-Racing.htm (http://www.carpimoto.it/IT/Freni/Dischi/Page_10/28038_BBR-Prodotti-Brembo-Racing.htm)
Title: Re: Rotor differences?
Post by: Speeddog on February 17, 2011, 04:12:20 PM
 :o Sweet!  :o

I'll put those on my list of presents I want to get from Santa.
But there's no way I could possibly be *that* good.
Title: Re: Rotor differences?
Post by: junior varsity on February 17, 2011, 04:18:16 PM
See that price?!? ~4050... EURO.  (plus shipping) - that is over $5,500 with the google currency converter. FACK!
Title: Re: Rotor differences?
Post by: Speeddog on February 17, 2011, 04:30:24 PM
Yeah, they're cool 'n' all, but not *that* cool.

That's like 2 bikes worth of BrakeTech CMC rotors.
Title: Re: Rotor differences?
Post by: ducpainter on February 17, 2011, 04:32:00 PM
Quote from: a m on February 17, 2011, 04:18:16 PM
See that price?!? ~4050... EURO.  (plus shipping) - that is over $5,500 with the google currency converter. FACK!
I can't go fast enough to have to stop 5 1/2 g's worth. ;)
Title: Re: Rotor differences?
Post by: junior varsity on February 17, 2011, 04:43:13 PM
roads?

Where we're going, we don't need roads!
Title: Re: Rotor differences?
Post by: Rob Hilding on May 04, 2013, 01:34:37 PM
Quote from: ducpainter on February 17, 2011, 04:32:00 PM
I can't go fast enough to have to stop 5 1/2 g's worth. ;)

Are you pulling 5.5 g's with, or without ABS ;D