Ducati Monster Forum

The 200.  Fack.  :o

Can you say racing on the edge.  [evil]

cluster fack

Can't find the race anywhere.. does anyone want to rip it and post on racing underground?

2011 Daytona 200 - Danny Eslick Crash (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4nfwX_ZNhA#normal)

You guys saw pictures of the chunks that flew off the Dunlops? They looked like potholes.

@BenBostrom: What is the penalty for swerving again? This definitely qualifies!

Daytona 200 crash (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nvZ_uFCY7M#normal)

@joshherrin8:  @BenBostrom when we bumped it made me swerve high when i came back down i didn't stop in time and we collided.  and if you want to talk about swerving check out Disalvo in the lead.

...drama  ;)

When will somebody invent a guard to protect the brake lever?  Seems like there's a big accident for this reason every year.

They're out there, just saw a little article with a pic of 'em on the Harleys, IIRC.

but that will add weight and change wind dynamics.....

i think the larger concern is impalement/entrapment.

Is that Nicky Hayden commentating? "Front tire or sumptin'" Amazingly insightful.

that was Mr Daytona-Scott Russell who has been commentating for Speed for a couple years now.

He's just jealous that no one wants to listen to his boy commentate. :P

Official DMG Press Release: "Yup, the 200 was fuxored"

http://superbikeplanet.com/2011/Mar/110316dmgexpla.htm (http://superbikeplanet.com/2011/Mar/110316dmgexpla.htm)

1. Why would teams not have had spare front tires? Is that a cost issue? I mean, do the teams pay for race tires and therefore try not to buy more tires than they'll absolutely need?
2. Clearly, this is just my opinion, but I think Dunlop makes absolute shite for tires. What exactly did AMA expect from them? Between this last race and the end of last season's Sportbike championship, determined by Asslick's "antics," is it possible for AMA to look more like a bullshit bush-league series?
3. Any bets on who's being disciplined for the last lap crash? Was any discipline ever handed down to Asslick last year? Or was it deemed a racing incident?

1)  I think it was that they didn't have any spares of the specific spec that Dunlop was using.
2)  I disagree *completely* re Dunlops.  I don't care that much for their street tire (they're fine, but whatever), but their race tires are great.  They give really good feedback and lose traction predictably. 
3)  I don't think Asslick was discliplined, though for the life of me, I can't figure out why.  I don't know about the 200, but based on what they allowed in last year's last race, it seems pretty bush league.  It's hard to say who is going to be disclipned as there were so many crashes.  If I had to bet, I'd say Herrin, though I'd chalk his thing up to a racing incident.  Sure,  the crash was his fault, but I'm not sure if it is the kind of thing that you get disciplined over. 

nobody was running that compound in the race. it was the "failback" compound.

so everybody, whether they'd planned on running the entire 200 on one front or had six fronts on warmers ready to go, had to take wheels to the dunlop truck to get new tire(s) mounted.

I didn't hear anything more about the Eslick crash other than to see it a coupla times on TV.   It looks really weird.  Do you happen to know if that was the Dunlop issue or whether he just lost the front?  I've never ridden or been at a race with banking, so I don't have a good feel as to how it affects grip, but that crash really looked funky.  

Edit:  Google tells me the crash was the Dunlop issue:

2011 Daytona 200 - Danny Eslick Crash (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4nfwX_ZNhA#normal)

+1. Dunlop makes great tires.

+2.  by far the best tire i've used on the track.  like, by a huge margin.

WOW  :o

My personal experience with Dunlop only includes street "performance" tires, both cars and moto, and I've never really liked any of them. The only thing i "knew" about their race tires was what I had heard from a friend who used to race; sounds like he was off in his assessment.

All the local race and trackday guys that are fast like them.

I dunno. :-\

i've heard much  better things about pirellis in the last year or 2 but my personal experience is that dunlops give you LOTS of warning that they are starting to go, and they do so in a very even, predictable, controlled way.  

pirelli, michelin: they let you know by handing you your ass.

Talking about Michelin race tires there, or street tires? I've only ridden their street tires, but I love them. Pirellis - mixed bag. Hated them on the 1098; love 'em on the Daytona.

never had that experience with Michelins...

and I'm talking race tires.

this was.. 2005?  then i used pirellis for a while.  then finally saw the light with dunlop.  ;)

So you're talking the S1/S2 or the slicks?

The new DOT true race tires are awesome. I don't like the trackday version.

Individual impressions about tires are funny. I had Qualifiers on my 848 and loved them...did 2 back-to-back trackdays in 100* temps at Milller and they didn't slip once.  [thumbsup] The bike came with Supercorsa Pros and I liked them as well.

slicks, but i have no idea the name/series

Heard first-hand from a really good source that the fresh race tires they used, which were delivered at the 11th hour, were 'different' from the qualifiers.  Race tires were 'delaminating', which he claims is what caused several crashes and all the chunking....

http://www.amaproracing.com/rr/news/index.cfm?cid=41910 (http://www.amaproracing.com/rr/news/index.cfm?cid=41910)

Sounds like a reasonable penalty to me. Just seems interesting that they would punish him to this degree after doing nothing to Asslick last year.

agreed, however josh has done similarly many times.  and he undoubtedly sealed the deal by making a lot of dumb comments in the media after the race.  look at the penalty as a warning to all.

Ok, I musta missed it.  What did Herrin do wrong that doesn't get chalked up to a racing incident?

And seriously, after not punishing Eslick last year, I can't believe that DMG is gonna throw down a penalty for this one.  That's bullshit.  Eslick looked like he was deliberately trying to punt Herrin of the track.  Hypocrites.

http://superbikeplanet.com/2011/Mar/110323joshherrinlett.htm (http://superbikeplanet.com/2011/Mar/110323joshherrinlett.htm)

fwiw, i seem to remember that last year was eslick vs herrin* and i'd say that the situation sorta played itself out.

this penalty is saying two things; 1) ama isn't going to put up with that behavior this year, and 2) calling the other racers idiots and saying they should've gotten out of the way isn't gonna fly either.

*as well as herrin vs some other people

Blah blah blah.  Translation:  My agent/friends/manager sat me down and made me write a "please continue to sponsor me" email.

I agree.  I was just saying that it took them waaaaaaay too long to get to (1).  And Herrin's move at Daytona was hardly the same as last year's carnage.  If DMG wanted to make a point, find a better incident.  As for (2), make the beast with two backs DMG.  Herrin acted like a hothead and probably managed to talk himself into penalty, but still . . . make the beast with two backs DMG.  All of a sudden they're policing politeness and throwing out penalties for acting like a douche?  Again, what about Eslick?    

they did the same thing with the disalvo/hacking press conference incident.

So the de facto rule is that you can act like a dangerous asshole on the track as long as you are fun and polite and say all the required platitudes afterward?  But don't you dare seem like douche off the track.  make the beast with two backs DMG.

I don't really have a point here other than that I can't believe that they let that unbelievable Eslick bullshit go last year and are now all of a sudden concerned about on-track conduct. 

out of curiosity, what specific "eslick bullshit" are you referring to here?

Sears and the last race (or was it two) of the season.  What a douche.

it was Sears and Barber if I remember correctly....and at Barber, Eslick made a few very concerted attempts to punt Herrin a few times goin round the track....

T5

which is very sweet coming over the rise and approaching that turn!

This?

Eslick vs Herrin AMA DSB 2010 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGVRthzIULE#normal)

yup.  the pass was made, eslick just took him out.

Yup.  And all the laps that preceded it.  I don't think I've ever seen a race where I was so convinced that one rider was trying to make another crash.  Well before that last lap, I stopped the race, went into the other room and told the The Blonde that I was watching a race where a rider was trying to kill another.  Eslick almost admitted that he took our Herrin as retaliation.  WTF?!?

Look, if going forward they're going to operate under the "don't endanger other riders and don't act like a douche after the race" regime, then I understand Herrin's suspension.  Maybe it's not right, but it's understandable.  But that makes it even harder to understand why Eslick was allowed to race this first round (or even this season).

..or why he was allowed to ride a 6000cc bike in the 600 class in 2009, etc.

hehehehe....

I agree completely (if you couldn't already tell, I'm not an Asslick fan  ;D)
And as far as not being a douche after the race, where does Asslick's "bring it on, pussy!" response after Barber fit in?

i'd call it a wash given what it was in response to.

lemme quote some stuff from elsewhere:

http://forums.13x.com/showthread.php?p=3485380#post3485380 (http://forums.13x.com/showthread.php?p=3485380#post3485380)

John Ulrich:
He for sure called Phil Herrin a pussy after Phil yelled at him (while he was being interviewed by Speed TV) "Nice punt, Danny, you piece of shit." I don't remember him calling other riders names. Maybe I'm wrong.

It may be worth noting that in the last few seasons there have been big Herrin vs. Eslick (everywhere), Herrin vs. West (VIR), Herrin vs. Selleck (VIR) and now Herrin vs. Westby (Daytona) incidents yet for some reason we haven't seen much in the way of Eslick vs. others, West vs. others, Westby vs. others.

Maybe it's just coincidence.

http://forums.13x.com/showthread.php?p=3487918#post3487918 (http://forums.13x.com/showthread.php?p=3487918#post3487918)

John Ulrich:
I don't like what happened. I don't like a lot of stuff that has happened. I don't like the comments made afterwards or the fact that Josh Herrin called Dane Westby a pussy and implied that whatever happened was all Dane's fault. The Video tells me something completely different. And yeah, Josh Herrin has been the common denominator in too many incidents involving too many other front runners, in my opinion. And yeah, I don't see those other guys having a history of problems with anybody else on the track.

maybe DMG should go into the soap opera business.

First off I think Josh Herrin is an arrogant douche and what he did in Daytona was verging on assault. That said, he doesn't seem to be well liked in the buis and always seems to be involved in some altercation or other in which the only common factor is his presence... coincidence? Maybe.

Secondly, that incidence at Barber T5... anyone who's ridden that track in anger knows there are about a dozen lines through T5. They way i read that incident was he took Eslik on the brakes but couldn't hold a tight line so Danny went inside (I notice that he didn't go up on the rumble strips). Maybe it was a little harsh by Eslick, butvat least he didn't say... swerve across the track and poke his elbows out at 160 mph.

Your mileage may vary. ;D

i'm not defending either since i wasn't there and the tv angle, especially @ barber, leaves a lot to be desired.

however.. it didn't look like there was any room at barber, especially considering it was a wet track.  it looked like eslick just made some room.

daytona, wasn't there a collision that preceded the whole incident that sent herrin up the track a bit?  i thought he got knocked off line and was just trying to get back.  it's not like that R6 has mirrors.

Yeah, yeah, stop being all reasonable an' shit.  [roll]

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/790/9851/Motorcycle-Article/The-Future-of-AMA-Road-Racing--Is-There-One-.aspx (http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/790/9851/Motorcycle-Article/The-Future-of-AMA-Road-Racing--Is-There-One-.aspx)

I've seen a couple different design for a lever guard recently.  One looked almost like another lever with a large ball end, and this one that was supposedly made for Westby:

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/229502_10150199950257188_716117187_6962648_7016780_n.jpg)

Here's one from Moto2:

(http://www.hondaproracing.com/images/machine/additional/large/toni_elias_3.jpg)

Here's the other one I was thinking of:

(http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy194/jlogalbo/GPtechBarProtector.jpg)

RRW writeup here: http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=43671 (http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=43671)

Who stole the engine from No. 3?

Here we go again...

http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/racing/ama-pro-racing-minimum-weights-daytona-sportbike/ (http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/racing/ama-pro-racing-minimum-weights-daytona-sportbike/)

ama....just proving once again how busch league they are...

i think they definitely should have waited 'til after they go to a couple less duc friendly tracks.  but otherwise, conceptually, what's so wrong with this?  other series do exactly the same thing, through one means or another.

+1

My only complaint is they did it after only one dominant performance. It's no different than WSBK adding weight to the 1098R for the 4th race of the season in 2008.

...except there's an actual formula in the worldsbk regulations that determines when and how much weight or air restrictor is added/removed.

I take it there's no formula or rule provision for this?

If 3(Disalvo) > 3(restoffield), then +5D & -5I4.

Formula?

How can you be capricious and vindictive if you've got to use a Formula?

wonder what would have happened if disalvo were on a buell.  ...an 1800cc buell, obviously.

WoodCraft entering the brake-guard fray:
http://roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=44562 (http://roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=44562)