Ducati Monster Forum

Moto Board => Tech => Topic started by: stopintime on April 27, 2011, 11:06:29 AM

Title: Battery/regulator/generator issues.
Post by: stopintime on April 27, 2011, 11:06:29 AM
My one year old battery doesn't reach full charge after 20 hours on an Acumate 0.6A charger/maintainer.

New battery - charges and starts the bike well.

One week later - weaker battery, but still grows upon charging.

I suspect bad charging while on the bike.....
Voltmeter on the battery at ~2.000 revs shows only a little over 11 volts.
Connect a new regulator - nothing changes.

Is it a good idea to let the shop install a new stator?
Title: Re: Battery/regulator/generator issues.
Post by: ducatiz on April 27, 2011, 11:10:20 AM
try a different charger.  optimal charge isn't at 0.6A. that's a trickle charge rate.

either at 2A or at 5 or 6A depending on the battery spec

i have a microprocessor charger that is 2/6/10 with automatic stepdown.  usually i start the charge at 6A and after a few hours it automatically drops to 3 and then 2 and then floats.
Title: Re: Battery/regulator/generator issues.
Post by: stopintime on April 27, 2011, 11:36:05 AM
The box says "automatic 4 stage charging - does that help?

I noticed that, when charging the new battery, it went from charging to maintaining (yellow to green light) in two hours.
From that I assumed it was charging as expected.
Maybe not strong enough when I start at 11 volts?

Link to your charger? Works well for AGM batteries?

Title: Re: Battery/regulator/generator issues.
Post by: ducatiz on April 27, 2011, 11:41:34 AM
http://www.invertersrus.com/vec1087b.html (http://www.invertersrus.com/vec1087b.html)

works well for AGM batteries.

sounds like you might have a bad cel if it is jumping that quickly.  maybe pick up a load tester for the battery too:

http://www.harborfreight.com/50-amp-6-volt-12-volt-battery-load-tester-93784.html (http://www.harborfreight.com/50-amp-6-volt-12-volt-battery-load-tester-93784.html)
Title: Re: Battery/regulator/generator issues.
Post by: stopintime on April 27, 2011, 11:46:42 AM
What does a load tester do, that a voltmeter doesn't?
Title: Re: Battery/regulator/generator issues.
Post by: ducatiz on April 27, 2011, 11:47:52 AM
Quote from: stopintime on April 27, 2011, 11:46:42 AM
What does a load tester do, that a voltmeter doesn't?

it puts a load on the battery to see how it recovers, such as a battery would under load from a starter.. basically simulates a starter cycle.

Title: Re: Battery/regulator/generator issues.
Post by: errazor on April 27, 2011, 12:28:29 PM
Maybe your alarm is drawing too much current?
Title: Re: Battery/regulator/generator issues.
Post by: stopintime on April 27, 2011, 12:38:42 PM
Quote from: errazor on April 27, 2011, 12:28:29 PM
Maybe your alarm is drawing too much current?

It has only been a problem during the season's first weeks, when my bike is not in frequent use.
Then I should have had the bike on a charger, but I have no access to an outlet (and too lazy to disconnect and bring it inside)

, but I really don't think this is the root of my issues, which I assume comes down to the fact (?) that my bike doesn't charge itself.
Title: Re: Battery/regulator/generator issues.
Post by: errazor on April 27, 2011, 12:50:01 PM
You can check that you have AC volt between all the three yellow stator lines.
Title: Re: Battery/regulator/generator issues.
Post by: Speeddog on April 27, 2011, 12:58:09 PM
Quote from: errazor on April 27, 2011, 12:50:01 PM
You can check that you have AC volt between all the three yellow stator lines.

Yes, check for AC voltage with the bike running.

I've seen upwards of 90 VAC at 4k rpm or so, so use some care....
Title: Re: Battery/regulator/generator issues.
Post by: ducatiz on April 27, 2011, 01:02:06 PM
Quote from: Speeddog on April 27, 2011, 12:58:09 PM
Yes, check for AC voltage with the bike running.

I've seen upwards of 90 VAC at 4k rpm or so, so use some care....

90V AC at 1A would feel like a small needle.
Title: Re: Battery/regulator/generator issues.
Post by: stopintime on April 27, 2011, 01:02:59 PM
Quote from: errazor on April 27, 2011, 12:50:01 PM
You can check that you have AC volt between all the three yellow stator lines.

No I can't - no equipment or skills  :P

I think it was done, or attempted, at the shop today.
Title: Re: Battery/regulator/generator issues.
Post by: Speeddog on April 27, 2011, 02:00:33 PM
Quote from: ducatiz on April 27, 2011, 01:02:06 PM
90V AC at 1A would feel like a small needle.

And 60 mA of 110 AC can cause fibrillation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_shock (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_shock)
Title: Re: Battery/regulator/generator issues.
Post by: beethoven on April 27, 2011, 05:47:43 PM

No I can't - no equipment or skills 

I think it was done, or attempted, at the shop today.


Honestly it isnt that hard. Im no electrical expert but had to check mine. Just follow the 3 yellow wires back to the first connector and disconnect Then use a simple (low cost) multimeter set for AC Voltage across two of the three wires at a time. Voltage when running at say 4000 rpm should be uniform for all three readings and above 50v. Get a mate to help if necessary for your own piece of mind. Stators are very reliable so dont change stator unless necessary
Title: Re: Battery/regulator/generator issues.
Post by: ducatiz on April 27, 2011, 07:15:26 PM
Quote from: Speeddog on April 27, 2011, 02:00:33 PM
And 60 mA of 110 AC can cause fibrillation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_shock (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_shock)

sure, applied directly to the chest.  but thru the hand, you'll barely feel it.
Title: Re: Battery/regulator/generator issues.
Post by: Howie on April 27, 2011, 09:54:59 PM
If you are reading a little over 11 volts at 2000 RPM you have a charging system problem.  This may account for the short life of your last battery.  You want to do a lot more diagnosis before replacing the stator.  They rarely go bad and are real expensive.  You can and should buy a digital multimeter that reads AC voltage.  You don't need an expensive meter, the cheap meters are accurate, they just don't take a lot of abuse or feel very good. 

Oh, as far as the shop goes, if they can't properly check out a charging system you need a new shop.  Trouble pin pointing (since this is an expression, finding the exact problem) can be difficult and time consuming, but they should not be guessing about a stator.  These guys are good, though I know you have to go a long way:
   SIGMA MOTOR AS
   Hemmingstadveien 15
   N â€" 5535, Haugesund, Rogaland fylke, NORWAY

If you want to handle this yourself here are a couple of links that will save me a lot of typing:
   http://www.electrosport.com/technical-resources/diagnosis-center/fault-finding-guide (http://www.electrosport.com/technical-resources/diagnosis-center/fault-finding-guide)
   http://www.aa1car.com/library/voltage_drop_testing.htm (http://www.aa1car.com/library/voltage_drop_testing.htm)
Voltage drop testing is the best way to find high resistance in a circuit, most likely your problem.  First items I would look at are the 40 amp fuse for the regulator, the connector where the stator wires connect to the regulator, regulator mounting and ground, battery cable connections and ground. 
Title: Re: Battery/regulator/generator issues.
Post by: stopintime on April 29, 2011, 01:43:33 PM
Thanks for the advice [thumbsup]

Equipment and learning is on my to do/to buy list.
So is a garage to work in.

Shop called and reports 14.5 volts at the battery when running.
Didn't have an opportunity to ask, but will check if they diagnosed it prior to changing the stator. If they didn't I'll make sure it's done at the next occasion.

Second to doing the diagnostic work myself AND performing an easy fix myself, if that had been the solution - I think this was the best and fastest solution. Assuming the stator really was broken, this could easily have taken weeks of down time waiting for parts and shop time.

Things brake down. It's the first major part that has broken in ~35,000 miles.

Going for a long group ride tomorrow [moto] 
Title: Re: Battery/regulator/generator issues.
Post by: errazor on April 30, 2011, 04:20:19 PM
Glad it was solved for you. Do you get the old stator? It is posible to repair, usualy to a better standard that a new.
Title: Re: Battery/regulator/generator issues.
Post by: stopintime on April 30, 2011, 04:23:13 PM
Quote from: errazor on April 30, 2011, 04:20:19 PM
Glad it was solved for you. Do you get the old stator? It is posible to repair, usualy to a better standard that a new.

Picking it up later.

Repair - how and by whom?
Title: Re: Battery/regulator/generator issues.
Post by: errazor on April 30, 2011, 04:32:48 PM
In Norway, Coates. They don't do anything else.
Title: Re: Battery/regulator/generator issues.
Post by: 64duc on May 01, 2011, 09:24:57 AM
Quote from: stopintime on April 30, 2011, 04:23:13 PM
Picking it up later.

Repair - how and by whom?

Any starter, alternator shop should be able to do it.  If they want to.