Ducati Monster Forum

Moto Board => General Monster Forum => Topic started by: stopintime on May 16, 2011, 11:47:00 AM

Title: 160 bhp air cooled engine. Tempting?
Post by: stopintime on May 16, 2011, 11:47:00 AM
I'm not getting much sleep for a while  :o

3V prototype 650cc 82bhp - an 1100/1200/1300 with two of those 8)

http://www.kaemna.de/cms_en/tu_example.htm?&ct=70 (http://www.kaemna.de/cms_en/tu_example.htm?&ct=70)

[moto]
Title: Re: 160 bhp air cooled engine. Tempting?
Post by: hackers2r on May 16, 2011, 11:54:57 AM
Hmm. Same bore as the 800. Could potentially work easily and be over 100 hp.
Title: Re: 160 bhp air cooled engine. Tempting?
Post by: zooom on May 16, 2011, 12:16:18 PM
now THAT has some serious potential!
Title: Re: 160 bhp air cooled engine. Tempting?
Post by: bikepilot on May 16, 2011, 02:37:44 PM
hp does not scale linearly with displacement.

I do like the idea of a rockin 3-valve air cooled twin though.
Title: Re: 160 bhp air cooled engine. Tempting?
Post by: jvax on May 16, 2011, 02:55:40 PM

Umm, didn't Ducati already have a 3 valve motor??

Ducati.com shows the 2007 ST3 and ST3s ABS as air cooled  ???   Mistake?

http://www.ducati.com/bikes/sporttouring/st3/2007/tech_spec.do (http://www.ducati.com/bikes/sporttouring/st3/2007/tech_spec.do)

http://www.ducati.com/bikes/sporttouring/st3_s_abs/2007/tech_spec.do (http://www.ducati.com/bikes/sporttouring/st3_s_abs/2007/tech_spec.do)


Title: Re: 160 bhp air cooled engine. Tempting?
Post by: Raux on May 16, 2011, 03:05:39 PM
all ST were watercooled.

saw a prototype 3 valve aircooled monster  that snuck out of the factory in 93 or 94 for sale in france recently

but the ST 2, 3 and 4, of course, were watercooled
Title: Re: 160 bhp air cooled engine. Tempting?
Post by: stopintime on May 16, 2011, 03:10:47 PM
Quote from: bikepilot on May 16, 2011, 02:37:44 PM
hp does not scale linearly with displacement.

I do like the idea of a rockin 3-valve air cooled twin though.

I initially thought these numbers were for the power of one cylinder, which could be doubled.
Obviously wrong and of course not doubling'able.

My knowledge of Rüdiger Kämna's mind tells me he's doing this because he thinks it's possible to create
more power than his 125bhp big bore 2V air cooled (although probably heavily oil cooled)

I'm sure he won't stop until we see at least 140+

Put that in a super light weight chassis 8)
Title: Re: 160 bhp air cooled engine. Tempting?
Post by: zarn02 on May 16, 2011, 05:08:37 PM
And give it to NCR for a New New Blue.
Title: Re: 160 bhp air cooled engine. Tempting?
Post by: Raux on May 16, 2011, 06:17:18 PM
i think i read somewhere that Ducati abandoned the air cooled 3v due to heat issues.
Title: Re: 160 bhp air cooled engine. Tempting?
Post by: Travman on May 16, 2011, 06:33:56 PM
The page says that there are approximately 25 existing prototypes.  Hopefully this project produces some good results that make it to the street in the form of bolt-on aftermarket heads. 
Title: Re: 160 bhp air cooled engine. Tempting?
Post by: stopintime on May 16, 2011, 06:36:41 PM
Quote from: Raux on May 16, 2011, 06:17:18 PM
i think i read somewhere that Ducati abandoned the air cooled 3v due to heat issues.


It'll be hot allright  :o

Maybe that's manageable with a lot of gas, a very open exhaust and a couple of large oil coolers.

"Race use only" ?  8)
Title: Re: 160 bhp air cooled engine. Tempting?
Post by: stopintime on May 16, 2011, 06:38:29 PM
Quote from: Travman on May 16, 2011, 06:33:56 PM
The page says that there are approximately 25 existing prototypes.  Hopefully this project produces some good results that make it to the street in the form of bolt-on aftermarket heads. 

Didn't you do your engine recently?

Still want more 8)
Title: Re: 160 bhp air cooled engine. Tempting?
Post by: ducatiz on May 16, 2011, 06:45:19 PM
3v 620 yields 77hp

notice the oil line going to the cams that comes off the oil pressure switch port.  same way old pantahs would cool the cams

(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/moto/desmo3/0945996b.jpg)
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/moto/desmo3/afbbe95e.jpg)
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/moto/desmo3/a5fedbfc.jpg)
Title: Re: 160 bhp air cooled engine. Tempting?
Post by: Travman on May 16, 2011, 08:02:00 PM
Quote from: stopintime on May 16, 2011, 06:38:29 PM
Didn't you do your engine recently?

Still want more 8)
I'm curious. 

I do have the additional displacement up to 1123 cc and the mid-range has experienced a nice bump which is great for the street ride.  But to get serious horsepower in the upper range the heads will have to be re-done like with this 3V project.  I've seen the descriptions of 120hp 2V engines which are impressive, but this 3V project will have more potential for big HP numbers because of the straighter intake. 
Title: Re: 160 bhp air cooled engine. Tempting?
Post by: Howie on May 17, 2011, 02:41:37 AM
Quote from: jvax on May 16, 2011, 02:55:40 PM
Umm, didn't Ducati already have a 3 valve motor??

Ducati.com shows the 2007 ST3 and ST3s ABS as air cooled  ???   Mistake?

http://www.ducati.com/bikes/sporttouring/st3/2007/tech_spec.do (http://www.ducati.com/bikes/sporttouring/st3/2007/tech_spec.do)

http://www.ducati.com/bikes/sporttouring/st3_s_abs/2007/tech_spec.do (http://www.ducati.com/bikes/sporttouring/st3_s_abs/2007/tech_spec.do)




Weird, wrong weight, fuel capacity, front brakes, power and who knows whatever else is wrong too ???
Title: Re: 160 bhp air cooled engine. Tempting?
Post by: hackers2r on May 17, 2011, 04:48:53 AM
Travman, what's the bore on your bike now?  Was researching the ST3 motor last night and they have the same oil line running to the valve inspection covers.  Only difference from the ST3 heads to these that I can see is the header bolt pattern is different and the ST3 is a 94mm bore and lacks the cooling fins although it seems to be oil cooled.
Title: Re: 160 bhp air cooled engine. Tempting?
Post by: Travman on May 17, 2011, 05:16:15 AM
Quote from: hackers2r on May 17, 2011, 04:48:53 AM
Travman, what's the bore on your bike now?  Was researching the ST3 motor last night and they have the same oil line running to the valve inspection covers.  Only difference from the ST3 heads to these that I can see is the header bolt pattern is different and the ST3 is a 94mm bore and lacks the cooling fins although it seems to be oil cooled.
The bore of my engine was increased from a stock 94mm to 100mm.
Title: Re: 160 bhp air cooled engine. Tempting?
Post by: triangleforge on May 17, 2011, 10:10:57 AM
Quote from: howie on May 17, 2011, 02:41:37 AM
Weird, wrong weight, fuel capacity, front brakes, power and who knows whatever else is wrong too ???

Looks like they've got the Monster Right-hand, High-Mount exhaust listed as well. The ST3 is 992 (water), while the S2R 1000 also a 992 (air). The 10:1 compression also matches the S2R, while the ST3 is 11.3:1. I wonder if this page started as borrowed HTML from the S2R 1000 page and never got fully fleshed out?