Ducati Monster Forum

is this the proper way to measure the closer shims? or i have to measure from the spot where the half ring keepers sit , to the base?
right now i get a 8.1mm .. but if i measure from the keepers to base i get a 6.32mm ...
my closers are loose so i have to add a 0.08mm with the new shims.. i have to figure out how to measure so i order..  thank you .


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you want the second measurement.

The effective shim is what you want, from where the half rings make contact to the base where the closer arm pushes up.

There are guys with way more experience than me that a tell you if you really need a measuring tool to be accurate though.

I picked one up and at the very least it makes the measuring easier.

Scott

It's not very reliable to measure without the tool.

Here's an explanation:
http://www.emsduc.com/assets/Discolor.explanation.pdf (http://www.emsduc.com/assets/Discolor.explanation.pdf)

make sure you buy the right one, there are 2 sizes.

yea.. i think i have to buy the 8mm ones right?
but 1st got to buy that measuring tool..

Yup.

Your bike (750?) has the larger stemmed valves.

I meant the right measuring tool.

yep, i ll keep that in mind.. theres actually 2 types of measuring tools on this website http://www.emsduc.com/products.html (http://www.emsduc.com/products.html)  for 2V and 4V..
they kill on shipping fees...  :o

tell me about it. if you had 7mm shims id mail you my tool to borrow.

i hated the fact that i had to pay $6 shipping for a tool and then pay shipping again to buy the shims. maybe you can call mike up and see if he will ship first class to you.

he is a very nice guy.

thank you!!!  [thumbsup]

but its ok .. i dont mind paying few bucks extra.. just pointed it coz i was surprised .. but .. w.e they have to make a living just like we do ..
just want to get my lady in shape so i ride again.. since my friend went down .. i stopped riding.. figured its a good time to tune her.. and be good for the rest of the summer.. i ll order the tool right now ..

Who manufactures your micrometer?  I have been looking for a good analog micrometer that reads in metric.

my friend lend it to me for the job, and i think its pretty old.. this is what i found online :
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&q=combimike+digital+outside+micrometer&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=4650322037174629744&sa=X&ei=vKXaTe7aAab20gGZjMH8Aw&ved=0CH4Q8wIwBQ&biw=1920&bih=972# (http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&q=combimike+digital+outside+micrometer&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=4650322037174629744&sa=X&ei=vKXaTe7aAab20gGZjMH8Aw&ved=0CH4Q8wIwBQ&biw=1920&bih=972#)

I picked mine up form Ebay for about 1/3 of that price new.  I had to be pretty patient though, the metrics don't come around a whole lot.  There are more Standard Mics than you can shake a stick at.

I did initially order a digital.  They usualy go for about $60 - $70 on ebay, but the first on I got was not functional when I received it.  I got refunded and went for the analog one just like in your picture.


Scott

I have a digital caliper that has served me well, but it is very difficult to measure brake disc thickness once the discs are mounted, so I want an analog mic.  I also have a pathological need to own more tools.   [roll]

 [thumbsup] i have the same need.....

got the tool today! i love it  !!
measured and ordered right the way! should be getting the new shims by the weekend...
lets see if my intake backfire problem will be solved.... : [bow_down]

Actually, there are three sizes.   ;D

svp88 when I was doing my valves i was having a very hard time measuring the shims, cuz if I would squeeze a bit harder I would get a different reading and all that.  Anyways, so what I did is I would sand the shim a little bit then put it in and measure with the feeler gauges.  Then I would take it out sand some more and measure once again with the feelers.  I guess what I'm saying is I placed more of an emphasis on the feeler gauge measurement then I did on the caliper measurement.  My two cents.

yea i know what you are saying ... i made sure i pushed it all the way with a screwdriver masked with electrical take (didnt want to scratch the rocker arms lol ) and my father was measuring the spaces between .. and measured them more than once to make sure... well we ll see how accurate my measurements were when the shims come .. i ll let you know..

I'm sure it will be fine.

nothing is fine... i still have a backfire through the intake!! at this point IDK what else to do!!!!  [bang]
any tips? im really disappointed ... :( this season is ruined...

well do you think it might just be your fuel/air settings? Have you tried tinkering with that issue?  U have aftermarket exhausts?

yes i have full arrow exhaust. i built a manometer and tried to adjust the throttle bodies but that backfire is still there.. the only time it would disappear is if i close that screw almost all the way.. but there is no way to balance it after.. and it would run on low rpms .. any tips on how to adjust the throttle bodies? i dont have the money for a mechanic right now.. + i want to get it done asap so i start riding again .. now that the weather is good... thank you .

Maybe installing your original stock exhaust will help?  To fiddle with the fuel/air correctly requires more than just fiddling with tthe throttle body screw; unfortunately you need this computer thing that only dealers have.  You got a full system so be responsible and finish what you started by adjusting your fuel/air to compensate or put your original exhaust back on.  Thats my two cents.

i dont have the stock exhaust . bought the bike with the after market exhaust. do u know how much the dealer will charge for a throttle body job?

what do u mena throttle body job? like to balance the TBs? its can run anywhere from 1/2 hour to 1 full hours work depending on the shop. some of them charge a flat rate.

yeah.. i meant balancing the throttle bodies..
idk what to do .. believe me.. im so pissed off... everybody is riding outside im sitting there trying to figure out how to get rid of that intake backfire.. (which i think is the cause of the power loss that i get) i did the valves , tied the shims .. everything is good .. idk what else to check .. any ideas?

If the bike was in my shop I'd do a quick compression test to make sure it's not a burnt intake valve, first.  Then I'd check fuel mixture (excessively lean can cause backfire through the intake).  Then I'd check valve clearances.

Has the bike been chipped since it received its new exhaust system, or does it still have the factory chip?  A full system plus a stock chip equals a high probability of backfires.  I just rode a customer's S4RS with the same symptoms your bike is displaying and it was all due to an extremely lean condition brought on by an arrow full system and a factory chip.  Maybe an adjustment to the fuel trim (which only affects the fuel settings at or near idle) would help some.

Poor TB balance can cause a myriad of poor performance issues at or near idle, but I've never seen it cause a proper backfire.  That said, I definitely haven't seen everything there is to see. 

Check the simple stuff first.  99 times out of 100 it's something simple.

Good luck.

thank you !! from what you said i would def. bring the bike to you so u check it but i guess your far away from where i am ...  :)
and yes, whatever you said is right..  i dont think the ppl who had the bike before did smth with the stock chip bcoz it backfires a lot from the exhaust.
i just did a valve adjustment .. everything seemed good. (i ll upload a pic of the valves) check it , see if u can find smth wrong there..
i was playing with the idling scews today .. and it seemed like it went away for a while when i opened up the air a little more.. but then again came back..
i dont have any experience on these things .. but when i look at it .. smth tells me that the gas gets collected there and then it lights up creating the backfire on the intake.. but at the same time i was playing with the other heads idling screw and there was no backfire there... idk im confused .. i know the deal will rip me off!! cant trust these guys here ...

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svp88, if I were you I would try to get everything back to the way it was before you adjusted it, then take it to the dealer.  They will not necessarily touch the throttle bodies or any of that stuff.  I think what they do is adjust the trim/tps through a computer.  Shouldn't cost you more than a $100 bill. Anyways if you take it to them make sure you tell them exactly what you did yourself. I know, you wish you could avoid it....beleive me I know, but it is what it is.  I bet a lot of people don't even think abou tthis shit when they get their shiny new exhaust system...hidden cost.  Don't worry there will be plenty of more nice days to come.

so you are saying the aftermarket exhaust caused this? like i said i bought the bike with the arrow exhaust.. and i remember i had the backfire through the intake from day one.. but didnt know what it was.. (i got screwed  by friends , i f u know what i mean) :(      abt adjusting the valves job that i did myself ...  i changed 3 shims that were loose .. both intake opener and closer .. and the closer on the exhaust. the spaces are just like the book says : inlet opener : .10mm , inlet closer .00 mm . exhaust opener .10mm and closer .00mm.
so i called the dealer today.. told him abt my problem and he said it could be caused from many factors .. timing, spark plug/wire, valves , air/fuel ratio ect ect... then i asked how much it would cost me for them to adjust my throttle bodies.. he said 150$ and the line there is 2 weeks long.... they would look at my bike in 2 weeks..  :o
plus those guys are rip offs .. this friend i got, got  screwed from them when he had some stator issues on this RSV4 aprilia ... the bike was there for months and they never did a good job..  i guess they dont pay too much attention coz they are always busy..

back to the problem .. i have few questions if u dont mind ..
1. if it was a fuel/air ratio why when i was playing with the idling screw on both cylinders , the other cylinder was fine? never backfired from the intake.. no matter how much open the idling screw was?
2. few weeks back i started losing power/compression in the middle of highway ..  after doing a constant 80mph for 5-6miles on 5th gear @ 4500-5000rpms.  and out of nowhere the bike backfired 5-6times in a row from the exhaust and lost power/compression , the rpms ,speed dropped but the engine kept running.. downshifted to 3 gear and then everything went back to normal for another 3 hours .. then the same thing again...
3. ive read that bad timing might cause the intake backfire.. how can i check if the timing is right.. the book says i have to remove the crankcase cover ..

i would like to keep trying to fix this myself for few more days ..  any tips?
if u say that its not worth it then i ll  bring it to them and f it ..  i ll let them rip me off ... :(
sorry abt all these questions ... i hope u understand, and thank you for your help!  [thumbsup]

Well, I suggest you relax and take it slow b/c the more you fiddle with things the harder its going to be for them to get to the root problem.  So keep careful note of everything you do so you can do the reverse.  Also worrying abou tthe problem isn't going to help you.  Your bike is probably fine...  The backfire could be other things and yes it could be the exhaust.  Let em ask you, did the power come back since that one time that you "lost power"? or is it still like that?

i haven't ridden her since then ! im the type of person who likes extreme and doesnt get scared easy...
having all the traffic of a busy NYC highway behind you while ``loosing power`` .. thats scary...  it doesnt do it on low rmps or if i shift up and down frequently. riding on twisties for example.
it happens only if i do a constant speed for a long distance..

Are you losing A LOT of power?  Does the bike feel like a scooter no matter how much gas you give it? Would you say you are losing that much power?  Thing is you shouldn't have asked the dealer how much it would cost to adjust the throttle bodies b/c you don't know if that will fix the problem 100%, or do you?  you should just clearly, concisely (and calmly) explain the problem to him.

yes!! it feels like im running on 1cylinder only! the rpms will go up but not a lot of power on the wheel. and then it would start again and go away again...  the bike would throw me up and down..
then i stopped. looks to me like one of the pistons stops running .. i get 5-6 pops from the exhaust .. the bike slows down .. the rpms are jumping up and down.. the speed drops .. then it looks like smth ignites and everything comes back to normal.. ofcourse after i dropped 2-3 gears down..

yeah thats what i was going to say that its only firing from one cylinder.  Check your spark plugs yet?

yeah.. so i figured is the horizontal cylinder since i have a backfire through the intake, the spark plug is always wet , and the pipe that corresponds to that cylinder is darker than the other one..
replaced the old champion spark plugs with new champion .. same thing again..  bought a pair of NGKs .. put one of them on the horizontal cylinder and tried.. same thing again (by the same thing i mean intake  back fire) swapped the coils .. nothing again .. still have the intake back fire.. as i told you idk abt the loss of power thingy bcoz  i didnt ride.  for some reason im focused on fixing this intake backfire bcoz for some reason i believe that causes everything !! lol (i know im might be wrong) its just a feeling i have.
so what do u think my friend?

Tough to say friend, maybe someone else can chime in.  G/L with it and don't stress out!

Some basic info needed. How many miles on the bike and have you let it sit for winter without stabil or an empty tank. A lot of times this happens because of improperly adjusted valves but sometimes this happens because your injectors are clogged. Before your start deconstructing your motor. I suggest you start with the more common answers.

Sonic cleaning of the injectors in cheap and fast.

Have you done a cylinder leakage test?  No better way to see if a valve is sealing.

2002 M750 dark. 73XX miles. full arrow exhaust. brand new champion spark plugs, brand new stock air filter. brand new battery. new motul oil. new ducati oil filter.
just adjusted the valves on the horizontal cylinder (which backfires through the intake) inlet opener .10mm inlet closer .00mm . exhaust opener .10mm  , closer .05mm , abt the empty tank..  i had to remove the tank bcoz i had an oil leak from the vertical cylinder. just replaced the gasket and its not leaking anymore.  so the tank was seating on a shelf for 2-3months i guess. . .
the intake backfire was there since i got the bike April 2010. but not the power loss..
i removed the injector, visually checked it and it looks clean i guess..  i ll get an ultrasonic cleaner and throw the injectors inside.. what kind of liquid should i use?

i kind of tried to do it .. this is what i did. :

put the piston at TDC .. removed the spark plug and took a bicycle pump... put tape around the connector and stuck it in the spark plug hole.
then started pumping... there was a lot of pressure there... looked like it wasnt leaking .. i know this method is shitty and all of you guys are laughing right now.. (it was the only way to do it that day) how can i properly do it ?

Funky, but brilliant.  If you developed enough pressure (honestly, I don't know how much enough is) and nothing came out the intake you are good.  Start looking at fuel and ignition.  Oh, your bike would be would be a Ducati first, but a severely worn (more than enough to detect by eye) exhaust cam lobe could cause that symptom. 

no nothing came out from the intake that day... and i left the pump there for 30min or so without touching it .. while i was doing smth else.. and when i unplugged the pump from the hole there was the same pressure .. the air came out from the spark plug hole. yes, i ll check the injectors this weekend. i was thinking to swap them with each other see if it is an fuel injector problem .. is that ok? if i swap the injectors? (put the vertical cylinder fuel injector on the horizontal and the other way around) i dont think smth will be wrong by doing that? or is it?
what did u mean by this: Oh, your bike would be would be a Ducati first, but a severely worn (more than enough to detect by eye) exhaust cam lobe could cause that symptom. 

 

Swapping injectors is OK.  By a Ducati first I simply was referring to possibility, I've never seen nor heard of this on a Duc. By more than detectable by eye I meant the wear would be so severe measuring tools would not be needed.

ok , it looks like the intake backfire is solved... not 100% sure yet..
just got back from my garage .. worked on the bike for few hours..
Work performed:
swapped the injectors .. (it looked like the backfire was gone... but it didnt make sense .. if it was a bad injector why wouldn't backfire from the other intake???? )
so i started balancing the throttle bodies with my homemade manometer....  at some point it backfired just a bit..
for some reason i started inspecting the throttle bodies.. looking for smth wrong.. idk what!!   so there it was ..  all of those adjusting screws had some type of melted plastic on top except for this one in the middle of the throttle bodies.. somebody had scratched it off ... and the spring was lose ..  thats the only thing that looked ``touched``  so i decided to tie it more.. while tying it the rpms started going up .. (there i remembered that i read someones post here abt his monster being happy idling on 1100rpms.. ) mine was idling on 600-700rpms..
left it at 1000rpms .. started revving the engine 4k-6k.. holding it steady at 1500-2500rpms  (this was the point of the backfire through intake) played with it for 25min .. no backfire ..
adjusted the throttle bodies with those 2 idling screws .. they look pretty balanced.. on idle and up to 4k rpms..  2morrow i ll put her 2gether and take her for a test ride..  [Dolph]
i know ya all will laugh at me for making such a big deal abt it and all i had to do is rotate a screw 4 times.... but u got to understand that i have no experience on engines.. ( theoretical or practical) .. just trying my best to get it done..
i thank you all for your helpful answers..   [thumbsup]

i ll post after the ride 2morrow.

back from the ride... everything good.. no loss of power and not much of intake backfire.. in 6-7 hours ride .. it backfired maybe twice from the intake when i dropped 2 gears and and rolled the throttle very fast.. 
i have a weird question.... does atmospheric pressure changes the way the engine runs? now that im thinking .. ive lost power on the same road at 7140 feet above the sea level..
where i was riding today was 2-3 feet above the sea level .. and i didnt have the loss of power... i know this question might be stupid to ask but i thought id give it a try..

Yes.

thx howie!  [thumbsup]