question on how to measure the valve shims

[uclabiker06]

svp88, if I were you I would try to get everything back to the way it was before you adjusted it, then take it to the dealer.  They will not necessarily touch the throttle bodies or any of that stuff.  I think what they do is adjust the trim/tps through a computer.  Shouldn't cost you more than a $100 bill. Anyways if you take it to them make sure you tell them exactly what you did yourself. I know, you wish you could avoid it....beleive me I know, but it is what it is.  I bet a lot of people don't even think abou tthis shit when they get their shiny new exhaust system...hidden cost.  Don't worry there will be plenty of more nice days to come.

[desmodoktor]

svp88, if I were you I would try to get everything back to the way it was before you adjusted it, then take it to the dealer.  They will not necessarily touch the throttle bodies or any of that stuff.  I think what they do is adjust the trim/tps through a computer.  Shouldn't cost you more than a $100 bill. Anyways if you take it to them make sure you tell them exactly what you did yourself. I know, you wish you could avoid it....beleive me I know, but it is what it is.  I bet a lot of people don't even think abou tthis shit when they get their shiny new exhaust system...hidden cost.  Don't worry there will be plenty of more nice days to come.

so you are saying the aftermarket exhaust caused this? like i said i bought the bike with the arrow exhaust.. and i remember i had the backfire through the intake from day one.. but didnt know what it was.. (i got screwed  by friends , i f u know what i mean)      abt adjusting the valves job that i did myself ...  i changed 3 shims that were loose .. both intake opener and closer .. and the closer on the exhaust. the spaces are just like the book says : inlet opener : .10mm , inlet closer .00 mm . exhaust opener .10mm and closer .00mm.
so i called the dealer today.. told him abt my problem and he said it could be caused from many factors .. timing, spark plug/wire, valves , air/fuel ratio ect ect... then i asked how much it would cost me for them to adjust my throttle bodies.. he said 150$ and the line there is 2 weeks long.... they would look at my bike in 2 weeks..  
plus those guys are rip offs .. this friend i got, got  screwed from them when he had some stator issues on this RSV4 aprilia ... the bike was there for months and they never did a good job..  i guess they dont pay too much attention coz they are always busy..

back to the problem .. i have few questions if u dont mind ..
1. if it was a fuel/air ratio why when i was playing with the idling screw on both cylinders , the other cylinder was fine? never backfired from the intake.. no matter how much open the idling screw was?
2. few weeks back i started losing power/compression in the middle of highway ..  after doing a constant 80mph for 5-6miles on 5th gear @ 4500-5000rpms.  and out of nowhere the bike backfired 5-6times in a row from the exhaust and lost power/compression , the rpms ,speed dropped but the engine kept running.. downshifted to 3 gear and then everything went back to normal for another 3 hours .. then the same thing again...
3. ive read that bad timing might cause the intake backfire.. how can i check if the timing is right.. the book says i have to remove the crankcase cover ..

i would like to keep trying to fix this myself for few more days ..  any tips?
if u say that its not worth it then i ll  bring it to them and f it ..  i ll let them rip me off ...
sorry abt all these questions ... i hope u understand, and thank you for your help!  

[uclabiker06]

Well, I suggest you relax and take it slow b/c the more you fiddle with things the harder its going to be for them to get to the root problem.  So keep careful note of everything you do so you can do the reverse.  Also worrying abou tthe problem isn't going to help you.  Your bike is probably fine...  The backfire could be other things and yes it could be the exhaust.  Let em ask you, did the power come back since that one time that you "lost power"? or is it still like that?

[desmodoktor]

Well, I suggest you relax and take it slow b/c the more you fiddle with things the harder its going to be for them to get to the root problem.  So keep careful note of everything you do so you can do the reverse.  Also worrying abou tthe problem isn't going to help you.  Your bike is probably fine...  The backfire could be other things and yes it could be the exhaust.  Let em ask you, did the power come back since that one time that you "lost power"? or is it still like that?

i haven't ridden her since then ! im the type of person who likes extreme and doesnt get scared easy...
having all the traffic of a busy NYC highway behind you while ``loosing power`` .. thats scary...  it doesnt do it on low rmps or if i shift up and down frequently. riding on twisties for example.
it happens only if i do a constant speed for a long distance..

[uclabiker06]

Are you losing A LOT of power?  Does the bike feel like a scooter no matter how much gas you give it? Would you say you are losing that much power?  Thing is you shouldn't have asked the dealer how much it would cost to adjust the throttle bodies b/c you don't know if that will fix the problem 100%, or do you?  you should just clearly, concisely (and calmly) explain the problem to him.

[desmodoktor]

Are you losing A LOT of power?  Does the bike feel like a scooter no matter how much gas you give it? Would you say you are losing that much power? 

yes!! it feels like im running on 1cylinder only! the rpms will go up but not a lot of power on the wheel. and then it would start again and go away again...  the bike would throw me up and down..
then i stopped. looks to me like one of the pistons stops running .. i get 5-6 pops from the exhaust .. the bike slows down .. the rpms are jumping up and down.. the speed drops .. then it looks like smth ignites and everything comes back to normal.. ofcourse after i dropped 2-3 gears down..

[uclabiker06]

yeah thats what i was going to say that its only firing from one cylinder.  Check your spark plugs yet?

[desmodoktor]

yeah thats what i was going to say that its only firing from one cylinder.  Check your spark plugs yet?

yeah.. so i figured is the horizontal cylinder since i have a backfire through the intake, the spark plug is always wet , and the pipe that corresponds to that cylinder is darker than the other one..
replaced the old champion spark plugs with new champion .. same thing again..  bought a pair of NGKs .. put one of them on the horizontal cylinder and tried.. same thing again (by the same thing i mean intake  back fire) swapped the coils .. nothing again .. still have the intake back fire.. as i told you idk abt the loss of power thingy bcoz  i didnt ride.  for some reason im focused on fixing this intake backfire bcoz for some reason i believe that causes everything !! lol (i know im might be wrong) its just a feeling i have.
so what do u think my friend?

[uclabiker06]

Tough to say friend, maybe someone else can chime in.  G/L with it and don't stress out!

[EEL]

Some basic info needed. How many miles on the bike and have you let it sit for winter without stabil or an empty tank. A lot of times this happens because of improperly adjusted valves but sometimes this happens because your injectors are clogged. Before your start deconstructing your motor. I suggest you start with the more common answers.

Sonic cleaning of the injectors in cheap and fast.

[Howie]

Have you done a cylinder leakage test?  No better way to see if a valve is sealing.

[desmodoktor]

Some basic info needed. How many miles on the bike and have you let it sit for winter without stabil or an empty tank. A lot of times this happens because of improperly adjusted valves but sometimes this happens because your injectors are clogged. Before your start deconstructing your motor. I suggest you start with the more common answers.

Sonic cleaning of the injectors in cheap and fast.

2002 M750 dark. 73XX miles. full arrow exhaust. brand new champion spark plugs, brand new stock air filter. brand new battery. new motul oil. new ducati oil filter.
just adjusted the valves on the horizontal cylinder (which backfires through the intake) inlet opener .10mm inlet closer .00mm . exhaust opener .10mm  , closer .05mm , abt the empty tank..  i had to remove the tank bcoz i had an oil leak from the vertical cylinder. just replaced the gasket and its not leaking anymore.  so the tank was seating on a shelf for 2-3months i guess. . .
the intake backfire was there since i got the bike April 2010. but not the power loss..
i removed the injector, visually checked it and it looks clean i guess..  i ll get an ultrasonic cleaner and throw the injectors inside.. what kind of liquid should i use?

[desmodoktor]

Have you done a cylinder leakage test?  No better way to see if a valve is sealing.

i kind of tried to do it .. this is what i did. :

put the piston at TDC .. removed the spark plug and took a bicycle pump... put tape around the connector and stuck it in the spark plug hole.
then started pumping... there was a lot of pressure there... looked like it wasnt leaking .. i know this method is shitty and all of you guys are laughing right now.. (it was the only way to do it that day) how can i properly do it ?

[Howie]

i kind of tried to do it .. this is what i did. :

put the piston at TDC .. removed the spark plug and took a bicycle pump... put tape around the connector and stuck it in the spark plug hole.
then started pumping... there was a lot of pressure there... looked like it wasnt leaking .. i know this method is shitty and all of you guys are laughing right now.. (it was the only way to do it that day) how can i properly do it ?

Funky, but brilliant.  If you developed enough pressure (honestly, I don't know how much enough is) and nothing came out the intake you are good.  Start looking at fuel and ignition.  Oh, your bike would be would be a Ducati first, but a severely worn (more than enough to detect by eye) exhaust cam lobe could cause that symptom. 

[desmodoktor]

Funky, but brilliant.  If you developed enough pressure (honestly, I don't know how much enough is) and nothing came out the intake you are good.  Start looking at fuel and ignition.  Oh, your bike would be would be a Ducati first, but a severely worn (more than enough to detect by eye) exhaust cam lobe could cause that symptom. 

no nothing came out from the intake that day... and i left the pump there for 30min or so without touching it .. while i was doing smth else.. and when i unplugged the pump from the hole there was the same pressure .. the air came out from the spark plug hole. yes, i ll check the injectors this weekend. i was thinking to swap them with each other see if it is an fuel injector problem .. is that ok? if i swap the injectors? (put the vertical cylinder fuel injector on the horizontal and the other way around) i dont think smth will be wrong by doing that? or is it?
what did u mean by this: Oh, your bike would be would be a Ducati first, but a severely worn (more than enough to detect by eye) exhaust cam lobe could cause that symptom.