Ducati Monster Forum

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93400 (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93400)

Hmm...an eel sort of looks like a piece of crap...

It's been said many times before but again, it's impressive what Stoner did with that bike that others have not been able to successfully duplicate. Looks like Stoner finally found a bike that suits him with the Honda. [Dolph]

he pretty much did that in 2006, also

Is this new slithering serpent better or worse than the one they had last year?

reading between the lines a bit, the GP11 was reportedly better than the GP10 at first (and it seemed that way).  then the 'stones got updated and the bike hates them.

coincidence that the Suzuki is all of a sudden competitive?

I think not. ;D

Before you know it Elias will be on pole too. [laugh]

seriously, probably not. 

Yeah...

I know.

What language was the memo written in? ;)

Why is it that the teams are not allowed to continue working on the bikes (not the engines) throughout the season? I mean, give the riders and engineers a chance to go to a test track and work out the kinks. Seal the engines so that those are not touched, but why are they so hard asses about the riders testing their setups?

quoting a racer buddy of mine who basically had a press pass at laguna, was really close to the track:

"What is immediately apparent is how much more committed Stoner & Lorenzo look on their bikes, compared to everyone else, even Pedrosa, on most days. The Ducatis - ALL of them - looked really uncomfortable in the corners, and the riders seemed wary of carrying too much entry speed, and mid-corner speed was really slow, too. It was painful to watch Rossi & Hayden, they are riders who deserve a much better motorcycle to race."

they are allowed.  that's how rossi is riding a destroked GP12 right now.  however, yes, testing has been severely limited since the '08 'cost cutting'

They are allowed to test the GP12 because it's not the same bike they're using this year. make the beast with two backs cost cutting.

kinda shows how important the right tires are for your bike.
maybe they will let a second tire manufacturer in for next year so teams can choose which works better on their bike.

I can see half the grid high-siding and the other half low-siding in that case...

critical.  they literally build the bike around the tires.

Maybe MotoGP needs to replace Bridgestone with Pirelli. The WSBKs don't seem to have bad tire problems. I don't think I have ever heard any righteous complaints about the Pirellis. Only "we picked the wrong compound in the first race, we'll get it right in race two". Those kind of problems are not Pirelli's fault.

WSBK is a production series...MotoGP are prototypes. I suspect you're much more inclined to build a bike around the tire when it's a prototype series, running 1-2 seconds faster around most tracks, no?

[when they're working] the bridgestones have a LOT more grip than the pirellis.  if pirelli came to GP they'd have to develop a brand new tire.

I was just throwing out food for thought. And it's nice to see a lack of tire problems in WSBK. Pirelli is doing them right. Maybe the Ducs just can't deal with the new 'stones as well as other bikes. I guess that's stating the obvious again. [roll]

"Our bike is perfectly fine, the tires changed and now it won't turn."

Preceded by:
Our bike is perfectly fine, Nicky just needs more seat time."

Preceded by:
"Our bike is perfectly fine, Casey can ride it very fast, the other rider we're sending to a shrink."

lol.. i suppose this is the first time they are saying it's not perfectly fine.  4 years was enough.

they still aren't saying... "our bike design sucks, we need to rethink the concept"

I'm not sure they could do that without pre-emptively destroying the sales for the upcoming 1199, which is based on teh same concept.  And who knows . . . as a road/track bike with road/track tires (anything but GP bridgestones), it may work very well.

well on that i agree.
the 1199 could very well be a gem. the OEM tires they choose for it will be critical as well, but also the frame will act differently as it's alloy, not CF. but what happens when it gets into WSBK with spec tires it's not designed for? or worse if they decide to use CF after the homologate it with a run of 1199R

Then they exit WSBK again...and maybe enter F1 ;D

the worldsbk spec tires are a quite different animal than the gp tires... a lot less available traction, less side grip, etc.

i'm not so worried about the production based bikes.

the margin of error is much larger in production-based racing.  and they have lots of very successful experience making the bike work on pirellis. 

when the bike and the tires will support squaring the corners it's a different conversation than GP today.

whatever you do...don't let Checa know that!

yeah no kidding, he's placing third in MotoGP races in the WSBK!

If you look in isolation at Suzuki's performance with their twin-spar aluminum frame....
you could conclude that twin-spar aluminum frames are crap.

Wait...no...they've got a V-4 in a twin-spar aluminum frame.
That V-4 must be the problem.

Whoops...that V-4 seems to work really good on the Hondas.
Well, except at the start of last season....when Pedrosa's bike was trying to throw him off 24/7.
What was it? 4 frames? 5? Before they did one that he could ride fast?

Ducati's biggest liability in MGP seems to be that their R&D 'department' is 1/100th the size/experience of either Yamaha or Honda.

They're probably gonna be chasing the others for quite a while...

well the other options is now that the SBK is going to the stressed airbox framless design, they can use an experimental full trellis design for MotoGP  [roll]

just for the sake of argument the 2007-2010.5 V4 honda mostly sucked  :)

Yeah, that's the thing.

Folks talk about a twin-spar aluminum frame as the magic bullet that Ducati needs.

Yet plenty of those don't seem to work very well at all.

maybe they need an inline 4

 :o
 ???

...with a reverse-rotating crank ;D

Yep, Valentino and Jerry should have those drawing packages in a file folder somewhere.

 [laugh]

I'm thinking patent problems. They should just steal a M1 and slap Duc decals on it! [laugh]

i saw that mentioned the other day... i'm curious, was that based on lap time or race time?

which race was that statement in reference to?

I saw that too.  I *think* they're talking about Assen, where GP had shitty weather conditions.  Checa's qualifying at Assen would have put him 5th on the GP grid if the conditions had been the same.

Yeah keep in mind that the MotoGP conditions were damp/drying track, 10 degrees Celsius lower track temperature and around 50% more humidity.  You can't compare the times in any shape or form.

I agree completely.  That said, let me do a 180:

One of the more controversial topics of debate raised at Silverstone has been the times set by Carlos Checa. The Althea Ducati rider has been faster than Valentino Rossi aboard the Ducati Desmosedici GP11 MotoGP bike in every session, even besting Rossi's qualifying time (2'05.781) in every session except for FP1. This despite a 40+ hp deficit to the GP11, and obviously at a track that the seven-time MotoGP champion had never raced at before. Silverstone marked the point at which Rossi and his crew gave up on the GP11 - the old bike that he started the season with - deciding to switch to the GP11.1 at Assen, the very next round. Carlos Checa demonstrates there is very little wrong with Ducati's ability to build competitive racing motorcycles. They just need to be 1200cc, V-twins and shod with Pirelli tires.


From: http://motomatters.com/analysis/2011/07/30/2011_silverstone_world_superbike_saturda.html (http://motomatters.com/analysis/2011/07/30/2011_silverstone_world_superbike_saturda.html)