Ducati Monster Forum

Placeholder for this weekend's action.

Stoner looks incredibly strong with the sedici tweaks during practice.  Kickstart to a mid season run?  Its good to see Hayden confident and up front.  I hope he can sniff a podium this weekend.

Not my favorite track, but some interesting things happening for this race.

Spies filling Caps ride
Hayden on pneumatics
Lorenzo back and "changing his riding style"

can't wait  ;D

I find this comical in some sense.  Wish electronics would go away.   :-\

I'm very curious to see what happens on race day too.  Have to admit that I'm not as intimate with the GP courses as I was with the F1 tracks (and I'm only intimate with those because of my previous hours spent on a Playstation (one) F1 game).  Is Donington a better than average track option to take advantage of the higher revs for Hayden?  The write up seems driven that will be his only advantage.

http://www.crash.net/motorsport/motogp/news/165093-0/hayden_gets_pneumatic_for_donington.html (http://www.crash.net/motorsport/motogp/news/165093-0/hayden_gets_pneumatic_for_donington.html) (my own derby, but I've moved it into the right thread)

From what I gather, the pneumatic engine paired with the chassis it was built for suits Hayden's riding style... or rather he can ride like he wants to ride.  I believe he can better achieve times with his sliding, point and shoot style on the pneumatic/08' chassis combo.  We'll see if it really matters much in the next few races.  Honda gave him the ultimatum that if he changed bikes there would be no going back.  I bet if Pedrosa switched and then asked to go back, they would bend for thumbalina.  HRC isn't quite as forgiving of ol' number 69.

Stoner absolutely thrashing the bike.  [thumbsup]

And in turn, thrashing the field.
0.57 ahead of Hayden in 2nd <woohoo>

1. Casey Stoner AUS Ducati Marlboro Team (B) 1min 38.232 secs
2. Valentino Rossi ITA Fiat Yamaha Team (B) 1min 38.881 secs
3. Chris Vermeulen AUS Rizla Suzuki MotoGP (B) 1min 39.018 secs
4. Nicky Hayden USA Repsol Honda Team (M) 1min 39.270 secs
5. Colin Edwards USA Tech 3 Yamaha (M) 1min 39.601 secs
6. Andrea Dovizioso ITA JiR Team Scot MotoGP (M) 1min 39.783 secs
7. Anthony West AUS Kawasaki Racing Team (B) 1min 39.995 secs
8. Ben Spies USA Rizla Suzuki MotoGP (B) 1min 40.244 secs
9. Dani Pedrosa SPA Repsol Honda Team (M) 1min 40.350 secs
10. Shinya Nakano JPN San Carlo Honda Gresini (B) 1min 40.417 secs
11. John Hopkins USA Kawasaki Racing Team (B) 1min 40.539 secs
12. Sylvain Guintoli FRA Alice Team (B) 1min 40.595 secs
13. Alex de Angelis RSM San Carlo Honda Gresini (B) 1min 40.667 secs
14. Randy de Puniet FRA LCR Honda MotoGP (M) 1min 41.110 secs
15. Marco Melandri ITA Ducati Marlboro Team (B) 1min 41.379 secs
16. James Toseland GBR Tech 3 Yamaha (M) 1min 41.751 secs
17. Jorge Lorenzo SPA Fiat Yamaha Team (M) 1min 41.873 secs
18. Toni Elias SPA Alice Team (B) 1min 42.933 secs


Qualifying times.  WTG Spies!  Faster than a banged up Pedrosa.  Looking good baby.  Can't wait for the race tomorrow.  Looks like Stoner might run away with it, but probably some good racing in the rest of the field.  Wet race should bring some different players into the mix if it indeed ends up that way.   [thumbsup]

 [moto] [clap] [clap] [clap] [clap] [clap] [clap] [clap] [clap] he was gooooooood

felt bad for JT   :'(

good race.. looks like ducati got that front tire/electronics/whatever thing worked out..  :o
no matter how fast he is, man rossi has pedro's number
nicky, mid-race up and downs..  :) ??? :(
stoked for ben.. points at a track he's never seen before and 2nd time on a GP bike.  bravo!

any results from the 125's and 250'ies
im down loading the races now  [coffee]

Hooray for Stoner. Still waiting for Ducati to get the GP8 sorted on the whole though. Was hoping for a bit more from Nick. Surprised by Edwards. Surprised further by Spies. It'll be interesting to see where he lands next season. Good fight between Rossi and Pedrosa.

+1 Right in the beginning and watching people lap him towards the end on a home track for him.  :(

What a race for second between Rossi and Pedro  [clap]

 Spies' lap times towards the end of the race were really fast.  If he could've run those all race long, he would've been a top-10 easy.

i have to re-watch the race because i was paying too much attention to live timing and scoring while i was watching it live.  ;D

here is the lap progression:  http://resources.motogp.com/files/results/xx/2008/MotoGP/GBR/RAC/analysis+by+lap.pdf

those 32's on laps 8 and 9 didn't help. those were his worst two laps. if it wasn't for those, he could've easily taken guintoli.

Poor Toseland.   :( 

He essentially ran the whole race with one footpeg right?  I heard he ripped it off in his turn one crash.

how curious, none of the usual suspects can spare a kind word for stoner this week after lavishing dani with praise last round [roll] [cheeky] [evil]

oh, and the part where dani gave up on his battle with rossi and settled for third. yeah. [roll]

</stirring the pot>

you mean after he said "they found something in the electronics and now the bike goes faster?"  :P

you mean almost exactly the same as what happened with Dani when they found something in *his* setup (at Le Mans) that made him much faster than qualy and practice? ;D

...and curious that Stoner was consistantly pulling .3 on the pack in the last half of the track. Y'know, the technical and twisty bits and not the straights.

yep.  can you imagine trying to even sorta ride a GP bike at sorta race pace with no right footpeg?  yuck.

because top speed was ever the problem?

maybe it's just semantics, but "something in the setup" and "something in the electronics" both read differently to me.

to me, "setup" refers to the mechanical aspects (suspension, geometry, gearing, etc) of the bike.

"electronics" means something entirely different (again, to me).

well, according to the pundits top speed is the only reason Stoner wins races. [roll]


I'm not disagreeing, but the net effect is the same, no?

My point:

Dani went well at Le Mans, qualified decently.  "Something" was found between QP and Raceday.  Dani ran away with the race.  Dani gave credit to this setup change improving his times.  Praise was heaped on Dani.

Stoner went really well at Donnington.  "Something" was found between Le Mans and QP.  Stoner got pole and ran away with the race.  Stoner gave credit to this electronics change improving his times.  Praise was heaped on the electronics change.

I watched Stoner in FP2, and he was *absolutely* flogging the bike, nobody else appeared to be pushing that hard.

Big props to Stoner for having confidence in the bike, and confirming he's got the stones and talent to consistently push it right to the edge.

And whether 'setup' means mechanical or electronics, I agree with derby's interpretation.
But considering the arena and language differences, I don't put a lot of stock in what the teams/riders say, as deception and information withholding are standard fare.

...now, i know you really enjoy stirring up this discussion.  and i'm probably a pundit.  but you can't be serious with the above, right?  i can point to about 67,000 posts @ TOB where i/we said he won last year because he deserved to win.

and that, separately, there were all sorts of unusual, interesting, and highly relevant factors at work in 2007.



that was Catalunya.  Rossi won LeMans.     ;D

 The Brits love  Mr. Electric glide. ;D

I don't recall anyone ever giving stoner credit for winning without a huge caveat about the above (top speed) or below (other factors)


beaten to death, and agreed. ;)


right, s'what I meant. ;)

Really? Here's a quote from me from THIS board (note the date)

halfway through the season and he's only won two...  ;D

And not the "huge caveat" immediately after the statement. ;D

A bit ironic that the pundit's that I'm not exactly thinking of are getting defensive while the one I am is quiet on this topic. (and by quiet i mean, not addressing any of my counterpoints) [evil]

he doesn't think you have any actual counterpoints.

=)

maybe that somebody is still waiting for you to watch stoner's 125gp, 250gp, and 2006 motogp seasons.

Why are we STILL yammering on about this. The bike as a whole is what the rider wins or loses on not just the electronics and the rider still has to "get on with it". Yep, he said they made some improvements with the electronics but that is still only one part of the system (bike). It is no different that the parts you just mentioned. Every part that makes up the bike is constantly evolving. If it was an electronic issue that was holding him back previously and Ducati found an improved setting GOOD. That is the task at hand, make everything BETTER. Do you think that Yamaha did NOT improve its own electronics over last year? Their bike is vastly improved from the previous season. Did that happen only by "mechanical aspects"?


I am absolutely postive that if Rossi had put pen to paper with Ducati when he had the chance and said the same thing as Stoner there would be dead silence from the fan boys. Had Rossi won all the races Stoner did last season by the same margins we would not be hearing all the whinging about how "boring" the race was or "he only won because Ducati has the best TC" bullcrap that has been piling up for over a year now.


What of them? They have no bearing on THIS season.

we aren't... sqweak likes to bring it up just to stir the shit.


i'm too lazy to search for the whole thread that got started in, but it does have relevance regarding peoples' opinions of stoner given his past performance.

that's not really apples to apples, is it? rossi has how many world championships on how many different bikes? and again, what were stoner's accomplishments prior to being 3rd choice for the gp7?

I haven't watched Stoner's 125 and 250 years.  Why? It's not what he's doing today, or did last year.  I watched him in 2006.  He crashed a lot.  What's your point here derby? That you refuse to give him any respect today because he wasn't class champ in 125 or 250 or his rookie GP year?  That despite being the 1 out of 7 guys to ride the D16RR to a championship, that it's still somehow the bike's magic powers that lead to it's success.

Forget every conversation we've ever had except for 2 rounds ago at catalunya and this round at donnigton:

Then: Pedro runs away with Catalunya.
Me: Gee, it sucks that people praise pedro when he wins like this and rip on stoner for doing it last year
Derby: OMG That's so not the same thing!!! Tires! Top Speed! Last year was different!

Now: Stoner runs away with Catalunya.
Me: Gee, it sucks that people praise pedro when he won like this and rip on stoner when he does it today
Derby: OMG That's so not the same thing!!! Setup! Electronics!  2 rounds ago was different!

[roll]

I continue to stir the shit with you Derby because I want you to get off your high horse and respect that the kid can race.  I waited all year for you last year while you went down a list of caveats and conditions to his success, and you're doing it again this year.  You're hard headed and so am I, so I'm sure it'll continue this way. :P

am i? seems more like you're trying to bait me and not getting the reaction you're hoping for.

look, the kid can ride, but he had jack shit for competition last year. that, coupled with the fact that his entire prior gp racing career has been one big suck, means he's gonna have to prove to me that his championship wasn't a fluke.

Oh snap!  [popcorn]

Really? So I imagined earlier in this thread and in the catalunya thread when you made excuses for the reason his and dani's similar performances couldn't be compared? Or any other caveat you've placed on his performance this year? [roll]


Awesome, some acknowledgment finally. [clap]

yes, yes. we know. ;)


Wow, I wasn't aware that an individual's entire worth and current performance was based on their prior performance.  You must be a really shitty boss to work for, investor, and/or fan of anyone that's ever improved over time or recovered from a slump.  Guess the Red Sox and Patriots are shit teams cause of those 20 or so years before their current good times, huh? And how bout those Apple computers? [roll]

One big suck?  Which part, the 19 Wins/40 Podiums over 101 starts (18.8%/39.6%)? Or the 12th(250), 8th(125), 5th, 2nd(250), 8th(GP Debut), and 1st season finishes?  Seems like a pretty decent career to me.


My issue isn't with you accepting his championship, because you never will.  I just want to see you drop the excuses, conditions, and caveats and give him some due respect.

what caveats have i placed on his performance this year?



wait, are you finally admitting that he had NO competition last year?


sorry, mang... citing decades of poor performance for sports teams really misses the point. we're talking about an individual's measured (lack of) performance vs a miracle season where nobody else showed up to play.

furthermore, i didn't say his entire worth or current performance was BASED on prior performance. i said that it sets expectations for future performance.

you can't honestly not see how a championship he was virtually gifted would be suspect given his past "crash and blame your team of sabotage" behavior and the fact that neither michelin, yamaha, or honda showed up with a package dependable enough to do the business.

then again, if ducati really had "world champion" faith in stoner for '07, they would've been paying him "bayliss money" and he wouldn't have been their 3rd choice for that ride (behind hayden and melandri), don'tcha think?


i guess that depends on who you're comparing him to.


you like picking this nit. the fact is i've pretty much kept my mouth regarding his performance this season.

Off the top of my head?  Here's one to start: when he has a bad week, he's a shit rider, when it's a good week, it's all magnetti/bike/tires.


Let's review your statements from last year, leading up to your magic bullet of the tire struggles.

Stoner only wins because Ducati gambled on performance over fuel economy. Just you wait until everyone else catches up.
Stoner only wins because Ducati has top speed advantage.  Just you wait until it's on a twisty track.
Stoner can't battle.  Just you wait until he has to fight for position.
OMG, Michelin is such an underdog.  Poor Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, etc.

Our difference in opinion is this, you somehow have it stuck in your head that Ducati/Stoner/Bridgestone had a magic advantage that was unavailable to any other team.  You feel this should invalidate the entire season and question Stoner's ability and championship.  They make the beast with two backsed up, Ducati/Bridgestone didn't, and Stoner evolved as a rider consistently answering your criticisms one after another.  He stopped crashing.  He rode conservatively and got the points when he didn't get the win.  He kicked up his game on the technical tracks you were certain he'd fail at, and had damn entertaining battles with riders (including Rossi) you were positive would smoke him in a head to head battle.

I've long admitted that there were issues for other teams/tires/etc last year, it's just that I don't wipe the entire season and dismiss Stoner's accomplishments because of it.


He made that claim once, in a 7 year racing career, and in spite of those crashes would go on to finish his debut season in a very respectable 8th

Again, nothing stopped michelin, yamaha, or honda from having the package.


Never have I said that his performance was not an unexpected suprise given his debut season.  Ducati had to make that choice without the advantage of seeing his performance throughout the year.  You chose to ignore that performance and continue discounting him.  That's the difference.


How bout Nicky, Hopper, Melandri, Ant West, De Puniet, etc etc etc.  Is he Rossi? no.  Does he have Dani's pedigree and record? no.  Can he run with them? Seems so.

Tired argument by the usual suspects.

Rossi wins (on the strongest package in GP this year) = GOAT
Stoner wins (on a bucking bronco of a bike noone else can ride) = He's along for the ride.
 
[roll]

Let the

(http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:TsZAc4kgGmqc_M:http://www.fotosearch.com/comp/phd/phd427/dog-humping-a-womans-leg-~-92041.jpg)

begin.

As far as the season goes Stoner's only lost 2 races he won last year and both of those were mechanical issues.  The bulk of the races he won (and won going away) are still in front of him.  I wouldn't go putting the crown back on Rossi just yet.

I actually hope that both bikes get sorted fully so the two can race with the best they have to offer and put this to bed.  No excuses and no BS, the winner is the winner.  Every great champion has a foil -- Nicklaus/Palmer, McEnroe/Borg, Sampras/Agassi, Bird/Magic, Ali/Frasier -- that pushes them to  a level they otherwise wouldn't reach for.  Rossi's never been seriously pushed by another champion with a comparable package.  I'd love to see it and would love to see him rise to the occasion.  For all we know his best is still to come.

Same as Nicky in 2006.

Just sayin....

as i said previous, i've pretty much kept my mouth shut on stoner this year. fwiw, he's only had two "good" weeks. you asked why i wasn't humping his leg and i pointed that (i found it somewhat amusing) he had just been interviewed and attributed it to "an electronic breakthrough".


i never said this. in fact, i pointed out that honda was impressed they were able to get that much performance out of the bike given the reduction in fuel tank size and still make the end of the race.


they didn't?


who did he have to fight last year?


who else brought a package capable of winning the championship? that's right, nobody.


good, so you admit he had no competition last year...  [thumbsup]


i believe my statement was "rossi on equal equipment would beat stoner."


have you?


ok  [roll]


look, everybody's issues from last year are well documented. michelin sucked for the majority of last year. sucked so bad that rossi demanded to be switched to bridgestone for '08. honda COMPLETELY (and admittedly) missed the boat with the design of the rc212. yamaha had reliability issues.

how come you don't mention kawasaki or suzuki? that's right, because they were no competition.


hey, he's world champion... "yay stoner"... it would've been nice if it wasn't handed to him by failing competition.

look, go back and review my statements on TOB regarding THIS SEASON and you'll see i've pretty much avoided discussing the specifics of casey's competitiveness.

i was actually referring to daryl's statement that he'd only win 4 races this year.

yeah, i can't believe i got sucked into this damn thing again.

;D

We'll have to see what tune the fat lady sings this season.

[laugh]  did they get some special you can carry extra fuel in your speed hump exemption?

Out of curiosity, when stoner said, "they made an electronics breakthrough"  does that necessarily mean they increased the input of the traction control?  Couldn't it also mean that they reduced the input TC has on his bike? 

Everyone just seems to assume this electronic breakthrough was TC and increased TC input/ reduced rider input.

Maybe the electronic breakthrough was better EFI allowing the bike to run more efficiently?

I think Stoner has to prove last year wasn't just a 1 time thing, just like any other rider who has been GP champ once.

what makes you say that?

well, nobody except the team really knows what it means. however, ducati's issues this season haven't been lack of power or running out of fuel...

i just thought it was funny that they "found something" that wasn't better geometry, or suspension/setting, or a tire that worked better... they apparently just got better software.  ;D

like i said last year, the kid needs to learn when to keep his mouth shut. he gives his detractors too much fuel for the fire.


watch out... sqweak is gonna accuse you of blasphemy.

Just seems to be the tone when people mention it here and when I was at the bar watching the races. Maybe I'm misreading people but it's the impression I have been getting.


 [laugh] I is blasphemous! But you know I'm right.

Obviously, Stoner's performance is solely attributable to the bike, because all of the other Ducati riders swept all of the positions right behind him.

Yep, just like in 2006 when it was all Honda on the Box.  Oh, it wasn't?  But, I thought the RC211V was the greatest bike that GP had ever seen?

Just because it's the best bike, doesn't mean everyone who has one is going to ride it to its full potential every race.  You'll also notice that the other Ducati riders (Loris and Sete during testing) went a lot better on the GP7 than anyone has gone on the GP8.  Most likely because Ducati over the course of last year (and still to this day) tailored it to work for Casey (not a bad idea).  Only problem is that other people rely on feel to ride a bike, Casey has absolute confidence in that software and others lack that, which makes the bike perform to less than its ability.

Here's how Wayne Rainey puts it:  "I think they should take away traction control. Racing has lost some of the excitement, even with the higher corner speeds. Without [traction control] the rider has more input and can anticipate what he needs to do [to win.] We need to see bikes on track that astound the spectators with their speed, attracting the best riders. These days we rarely see wheelies, a highside or a rider mistake [because of traction control,] but when I was racing we paid for our mistakes the hard way, running off the track or going flying.

"Check out (Casey) Stoner's throttle openings on television. He couldn't ride like that without traction control. That said, the best riders are going to win, no matter what you do to the rules, and these days it's (Valentino) Rossi, Stoner and (Dani) Pedrosa."

Nobody debates Stoner's skill and ability to ride.  He IS a great rider and as I said earlier in this thread (and this life) he WILL win races.  However, last year he won 11 races going away after never winning a GP in his life - do you really believe that he suddenly woke up one morning and was Mick Doohan?

All the world wants to see is what happens when he has some competition.  Quite honestly, I've been somewhat impressed by his riding this year.  He's actually done quite well so far and is in good position with half the season left.  I gave him credit for last year, I'm just of the opinion that some people gave him too much credit.  If he wins it this year, he will have earned my respect as a racer, but I will never root for him.

My problem with Stoner comes from a couple places -

#1.  He's an arrogant prick who loves to blame others.
#2.  His style if riding represents everything I hate about the way GP is going.
#3.  His wife ISN'T that hot people and anyone who's a GP'er and gets married before their 21st birthday needs to be shot in the head ;)

 [clap]

Who cares about Stoner, Rossi, or Pedrosa.  You all KNOW who is the god of motogp...............



















































 [laugh]
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj219/Putz37/depuniet2006portrait.jpg)

The Japanese haven’t figured out traction control yet?  I personally think that Honda and Yamaha have the most technologically advanced traction control/engine management systems on their GP bikes.  With their pneumatic valves and everything else, I think its fantastic that Ducati can even compete.  I think you can hear the Ducati Traction control more because the other bikes have more advanced electronics.  Next race should be interesting.

[laugh]

There was a great quote on the WERA board re: De Puniet.  

"That boy should just run across the line at the start and dive into the sand. Save time and money."

I don't think anyone's said that.  Anyhow, Ducati and Yamaha BOTH use Magneti Marelli electronics.  However, Ducati works with the Ferarri F1 engineers (who also use MM) to further advance their cause.  So, yes Ducati's electronics are prolly more "advanced," but really the point here is that Stoner is the only one who can exploit that advantage because of his ability to shut off his brain and rely on the electronics at their highest setting (which is no small feat, I think it's insane that he's able to do that).

plus, have you see honda's f1 team?  [laugh]

the ducati/ferrari/magneti marelli relationship is interesting in the light that fiat owns both ferrari and magneti marelli. fiat is also the title sponsor of the yamaha factory motogp squad, yet ducati gets the ferrari f1 collaboration on their engine management system.

 [laugh]

You've beat me Derby. [roll]


Hey look, fresh discussion! ;D

My whole point, all along, has been that his performance is a sum of the parts.  Yes, the D16RR is a nice platform...but it's a platform that took Stoner's ability to take it to a championship.  Of course he didn't wake up a legend, but he didn't just hit the "win" button and hold on either.


I'm a Stoner fan but not a fanboy.  All I've ever campaigned for is that he get some due respect for putting it all together.  Let's go back to my original post in this thread and the Catalunya thread.  Why do people (not targeted at you, nor derby, but fans/journos/etc in general) praise Dani for his performance and discount Stoner for doing the same thing?  I think it's a valid question.



1: I haven't really seen that behavior from him since joining Ducati.  Can you point me in the direction of examples?

2 & 3 I can't really argue with, as they're subjective. ;)

well, it appears we've once again reached the point in the discussion where you aren't even acknowledging statements i've actually made. you misrepresent my prior comments, inserting your idea of what my opinions are and then bow out with a rolleye. good on ya, sir.  [thumbsup]


is it really?

 [laugh] [laugh] [laugh]

Really? You just said that?  You just projected *everything* that you did on your last reply onto me? Nice derb, nice.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strawman

A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.[1] To "set up a straw man" or "set up a straw man argument" is to describe a position that superficially resembles an opponent's actual view but is easier to refute, then attribute that position to the opponent (for example, deliberately overstating the opponent's position).[1] A straw man argument can be a successful rhetorical technique (that is, it may succeed in persuading people) but it carries little or no real evidential weight, because the opponent's actual argument has not been refuted.[2]

let me give you an example:


i challenge you to find anywhere i actually said that.

if you want to actually have a discussion, i suggest you re-read my statements regarding this topic on TOB as well as here. if you're just going to make stuff up and attribute it to me, this is just a waste of time.

well then perfect.  i've also said that, sometimes in way too many words, MANY times.

i've also said that last year was a series of events and circumstances that had a complimentary-or-disastrous effect on the performance of many teams and riders.  i've also detailed these things ad nauseam.  no one wants to hear them again, least of all me.

these two things above are mutually exclusive statements.  the 2nd is not a caveat for the first.

these two things above are mutually exclusive statements.  the 2nd is not a caveat for the first.


i know that this is basically just a(n entertaining) pissing match between you and derby, but he and i have said essentially the same things over and over (certainly with different... personality) and you ARE misrepresenting those things.  seemingly to have something to argue about.

Is it gang up on sqweak day?  ;D

So last year Ducati and Bridgestone got it right and no one else did...

sounds like racing to me.

The competition is more fun to watch this year.

Tell me derby, how do I source your statements IRL?  Should I start recording you?  Should I log our IM discussions?

You made a statement, to that effect, at a bbq at your house watching one of the first races of last year.  I specifically asked you for your thoughts on why the Duc was so dominant.  In that discussion you specifically cited that your belief, by "reports" from your various favored news sources, was that Ducati had gambled on the fuel economy in favor of performance.  You went on to state that under further development it was likely that the others would catch up.

Was what I posted it as verbatim? no.  Was it the spirit of the statement? yes. Can I source it? no.  Does that make it invalid and a Strawman argument? no.

I'm not here for character assassination, so fear not, I'll never discuss it with you again.

all the races are in the fix

Rossi wins Italy

Pedrobot wins Spain

Toseland wins..... shit, uh..... Stoner is pastey white, he'll do, wins England



 [laugh]

Sorry sqweak but I gotta call BS on one of your statements.  I don't know anyone who praises Dani  [cheeky]

so at the beginning of LAST season, during one of these "first races of the year" that you say reward straight line speed, you asked me why the duc was faster and i said they gambled on fuel economy?

believe me, if ducati didn't think they would make it to the end of the race on a tank of fuel, they wouldn't be circling the track.

the only story i recall relaying (both IRL and TOB) regarding ducati fuel economy with regards to performance was that honda (either an engineer or head of the program) was impressed they could get that much power and make it to the end of the race given the smaller fuel tanks mandated last year.

i'm sure gm2 would back me up on this if he hadn't just told me privately that he'll give me $20 if he ever posted on this subject again.

Then gets boo'ed when they realize its not Toseland.

He got booed because he is not all that popular in the UK. He has said some pretty disparaging things about the UK, it's fans, tracks and racing scene. Consequently many Englishmen view him as yet another arrogant Australian giving the mother country crap..... Actually that is an Australian hobby I believe, they call it Pommie bashing.

 [laugh]

 [popcorn]

I was more just going along with the previous joke.  [thumbsup]  I'm aware that UK doesn't like ol' Casey boy.