i need as muchinfo on how to adj the valves. the bike is in the shop now and i have 2 weeks to get this done. i do not have time to buy a book and read it.
lay it on me guys
Quote from: Nick_Knipp on April 17, 2012, 08:02:52 AM
i need as muchinfo on how to adj the valves. the bike is in the shop now and i have 2 weeks to get this done. i do not have time to buy a book and read it.
lay it on me guys
Go to youtube or ducatisuite and look. Chris from CA Cycleworks has some videos that walk you right through it.
i would also like to make sure that the S2R1K has 2 timing belts. does anyone know? correct me if im wrong please.
and how much would shims/gaskets cost for this bike? I dont have those tools/parts
Yes - one belt for each cylinder.
YOu should pick up the technical manual for your bike. It will have the process and exact measurements.
But if the bike is in the shop, how are you doing this?
Quote from: Sad Panda on April 17, 2012, 08:43:21 AM
Yes - one belt for each cylinder.
YOu should pick up the technical manual for your bike. It will have the process and exact measurements.
But if the bike is in the shop, how are you doing this?
ok two belts, thank you.
I would like to one day, its in my colleges shop and this is the first time ive ever serviced a motorcycle of this degree. im normally an automotive mechanic. so I dont have to pay the labor(cant afford that)
The process is not hard, but don't rush it. The mentioned videos are a good starting spot, but predate you bike a touch. The DS (Dual Spark) have tighter belt tensions than the ones in the video.
Don't try to cheat and leave the belts on - you will not get accurate numbers when you check the clearances.
try a search for the forum, youll find a lot...
Quote from: Sad Panda on April 17, 2012, 08:47:46 AM
The process is not hard, but don't rush it. The mentioned videos are a good starting spot, but predate you bike a touch. The DS (Dual Spark) have tighter belt tensions than the ones in the video.
Don't try to cheat and leave the belts on - you will not get accurate numbers when you check the clearances.
So valve adj has to be done in between changing the timing belts?
In between? Well you need the belts off to check the valves regardless of if you're changing out to a new set of belts, or the current ones are good to go for a bit longer.
I've never removed the belts to do valve adjustments. I went with the instructions in LT Snyder's book which used the crank to find TDCC. If the belts are off you'd have to find TDCC on the crank, then separately on the cam?
Why would the readings be less accurate with the belts on? The belts are on every time the bikes are run, which would imply that the most accurate method of verifying clearances would be the method by which the motorcycle utilizes those methods? As in, with the belts attached. Am I missing something here? Seriously confused now
Quote from: Sad Panda on April 17, 2012, 09:54:53 AM
In between? Well you need the belts off to check the valves regardless of if you're changing out to a new set of belts, or the current ones are good to go for a bit longer.
Nope belt needs to be replaced at 15k miles. Im 56 miles over that already
Quote from: Smokescreen on April 17, 2012, 10:17:37 AM
I've never removed the belts to do valve adjustments. I went with the instructions in LT Snyder's book which used the crank to find TDCC. If the belts are off you'd have to find TDCC on the crank, then separately on the cam?
Why would the readings be less accurate with the belts on? The belts are on every time the bikes are run, which would imply that the most accurate method of verifying clearances would be the method by which the motorcycle utilizes those methods? As in, with the belts attached. Am I missing something here? Seriously confused now
Since the belts are tensioned there is force on the cam and will falsely apply pressure on the valve arms. without the belts there are no forces on the arm so you get a more accurate reading.
Yep. You need to determine the clearance at it's maximum. Can't do that with the belts on as you'll get opener values less than what they really are most times. And if you use the measure the opener side- while pushing on the closer arm arm technique to get your closer shim numbers then both sets are buggered.
When checking the valves crank position really doesn't matter, with the belts off that is. Of course when you're putting stuff back together it sure as shit does.
But yeah - belts of for checks.
it's much, much easier to do with the belts off.
there's been lots of threads recently about clearances on ds motors. if you can't be bothered reading them or finding tools, parts, etc, i wonder why you're bothering at all.
You sound like you are rushed for time. I think you will need at least one manual if you have no experience doing a valve adjustment.
In the manual you will find the tools you need and procedure for the job.
Trying to explain it all in typing on the forum is not quick so I would not expect a valve procedure to be found online that outlines every step.
The duc.nu website will sell you a manual for immediate download, I believe. My LT Snyder manual arrived from EMS two days after I ordered it.
Also, if you won't get at a manual, at least look at an exploded parts diagram so you can see how the valvetrain functions. Without kind of understanding how the valvetrain cycles, doing an adjustment may be a fast way to instead screw something up.
Also, use the "Search" button.
There's already loads of info on this forum for valve clearance check/adjustment.
This is what I would do. As soon as you can. Pull off the belt covers, battery tray, support, move oil cooler. Then remove the inspection covers. Check the valves at TDC on each cylinder. Write down where you are at. Then pull the belts at TDC front cyl and check again. I find there is a bit of difference and is easier to find the slack with the belt off.
At this point you will probably need to order a shim from EMSDUC. My S2R had some size marking on the shims. IF are lucky and you have markings on the shims that need to be replaced order both sizes bigger, the measuring tool and the LT book to save time. Also if you get a couple extra you can find a way to move them around, do a little sanding maybe and get them all just right.
Also next time I have to replace a closer I'm going to make a hardwood tool about the size of a 7mm hex to hold that closer arm down.
The LT book and PDF manual is something every monster owner should have. IMHO
This is not a job you can do right the first time in one 4 hour block of time. My first adjustment took me about 2 weeks from when I ordered my first parts till when I was back on the road. There is a lot of messing around, then measuring, then asking a question or two, Watching the CA video 10 times, then needing to wait for another tool or shim, check again, then triple checking all the pieces are torqued right, etc
I'm also going to +1 the use of search
im gonna have to have the dealer do it.
Shims were the only thing i needed to do the job, and yeah I'm pretty confident I can do it. Problem was, when i called NPR and asked how much shims were in a set(various sizes) they replied a thousand dollars. [bang]
make the beast with two backs that tbh, I got better things to spend my money on the next few years so I'll let them do it for only 3 hours labor. I also need the timing belt and front tire replaced. they can do that in the package too.
you can get the shim set (non OEM and much better) For about $350. It pays for itself very quickly. I picked mine up and have used it for the past 4 valve adjustments ive done. and each adjustment costs me about $30-40 in extra shims once i know the size.
One can buy individual shims as well. Aaaand it's possible you won't need shims at all. Case A) all valves are in spec. Case B) only openers need adjustment for being too tight. IN this case one can sand the existing shim down to give more clearance.
I gotta say I had no idea, the LT manual certainly didn't explain a belt off method, instead taking advantage of the belts being on to spin the whole motor, the same way I did with my 900 for every valve adjustment. I still don't really understand how check the adjustment with the belts off would give a more honest measure, since the engine is generally run with the belts on? And my last two adjustments with the belts on seemed to go swimmingly.
Having said that, if I can find a shop in CO that does those fancypants shims, I might just overpay someone to do that first of those...
The belt is applying a torque on the cam, the cam is what moves the rocker arm. if there is tension on belt then the rocker arm is being held. therefore it is not at its relaxed position. so when you are reading the measurement, you will be fighting the belt.
its much better and easier to do it with the belts off.
how do you check for binding with the belts on?
You check for binding with the belts on by spinning the engine crank tool to rotate the entire valvetrain.
I personally don't like doing the adjust with them on. Belts take 1 minute and 4 bolts to remove, and resultingly make the entire process a lot easier and I think the final closer adjustment more accurate.
Would measurements really be that much off with the belts on? I duno, but I don't think so. My measurements were the same with belts on as belts off.
All this being said, the thought of using the engine turning tool with the belts on to wiggle the cams that little bit to find the sweet spot where the opener rockers slide out of the way with the clips off would be, for sure, a nghtmare for me.
I am not sure why LT leaves the belts on for his adjustments, but I'm also not sure about his tuning procedure either, so...and... Still waiting to hear back from him on my email I sent over 3 weeks ago to ask him about it...
Interesting. I'll try it with them off next time, if I can't find a shop around here that would put on the fancy c-clip thingys. I think those might change everything.
what clips?
MBP retainers from EMS (http://www.emsduc.com/products.html#mbpcombos (http://www.emsduc.com/products.html#mbpcombos)) would be the retainers I'm talking about. Rather than being the rather imprecise c-clips that are for all intents and purposes, bent pieces of mild steel, these are larger and more directly shaped.