Ducati Monster Forum

Moto Board => Tech => Topic started by: stopintime on May 30, 2012, 02:03:54 PM

Title: Loose parts, shouldn't be loose and certainly not where I found them
Post by: stopintime on May 30, 2012, 02:03:54 PM
Old oil out.
First part found there.
The rest of them found closer to where they came from.

This doesn't look right.

What are they and where do they come from?

Now I know.
Do you? [cheeky]

(http://i329.photobucket.com/albums/l394/stopintime/Oops/Oops002.jpg)

(http://i329.photobucket.com/albums/l394/stopintime/Oops/Oops004.jpg)

(http://i329.photobucket.com/albums/l394/stopintime/Oops/Oops008.jpg)
Title: Re: Loose parts, shouldn't be loose and certainly not where I found them
Post by: corey on May 30, 2012, 02:11:32 PM
:(
Title: Re: Loose parts, shouldn't be loose and certainly not where I found them
Post by: sofadriver on May 30, 2012, 02:14:33 PM
clutch bits?
since I run an open clutch cover on mine, I don't have to worry about that stuff. they just fall out on the ground  ;D
Title: Re: Loose parts, shouldn't be loose and certainly not where I found them
Post by: ducpainter on May 30, 2012, 02:34:42 PM
Where is 'closer to where they came from'?  ;D
Title: Re: Loose parts, shouldn't be loose and certainly not where I found them
Post by: stopintime on May 30, 2012, 02:37:24 PM
Quote from: ducpainter on May 30, 2012, 02:34:42 PM
Where is 'closer to where they came from'?  ;D

Closer, as in just below.

All parts are steel, except the tiny alu piece in the bottom of the last picture.
Title: Re: Loose parts, shouldn't be loose and certainly not where I found them
Post by: stopintime on May 30, 2012, 02:41:18 PM
Quote from: sofadriver on May 30, 2012, 02:14:33 PM
clutch bits?
since I run an open clutch cover on mine, I don't have to worry about that stuff. they just fall out on the ground  ;D

I can tell you that you won't have to fear this [thumbsup] (not open cover related)
Title: Re: Loose parts, shouldn't be loose and certainly not where I found them
Post by: ducpainter on May 30, 2012, 02:48:12 PM
closer spring?
Title: Re: Loose parts, shouldn't be loose and certainly not where I found them
Post by: stopintime on May 30, 2012, 02:49:25 PM
Quote from: ducpainter on May 30, 2012, 02:48:12 PM
closer spring?

Nope - quite a lot heavier than that.
Title: Re: Loose parts, shouldn't be loose and certainly not where I found them
Post by: ducpainter on May 30, 2012, 02:53:20 PM
gearchange lever spring?
Title: Re: Loose parts, shouldn't be loose and certainly not where I found them
Post by: stopintime on May 30, 2012, 02:56:49 PM
Quote from: ducpainter on May 30, 2012, 02:53:20 PM
gearchange lever spring?

Same answer, but you're closer.
Title: Re: Loose parts, shouldn't be loose and certainly not where I found them
Post by: stopintime on May 30, 2012, 03:21:52 PM

         :o


(http://i329.photobucket.com/albums/l394/stopintime/Oops/Oops010.jpg)
Title: Re: Loose parts, shouldn't be loose and certainly not where I found them
Post by: sofadriver on May 30, 2012, 03:28:05 PM
ouch!.............time to refi the house!
Title: Re: Loose parts, shouldn't be loose and certainly not where I found them
Post by: rockaduc on May 30, 2012, 05:39:11 PM
Damn, son of a &*^%!!!!!!
Title: Re: Loose parts, shouldn't be loose and certainly not where I found them
Post by: battlecry on May 30, 2012, 06:17:27 PM
So sorry, damn.   Did it sound odd or feel weird at all?   :o
Title: Re: Loose parts, shouldn't be loose and certainly not where I found them
Post by: ducpainter on May 30, 2012, 06:40:18 PM
Quote from: stopintime on May 30, 2012, 03:21:52 PM
        :o


(http://i329.photobucket.com/albums/l394/stopintime/Oops/Oops010.jpg)
I've heard that can happen...on built...

and not so built bikes...

and it's not like you baby yours. ;D

What was the aluminum?
Title: Re: Loose parts, shouldn't be loose and certainly not where I found them
Post by: Speeddog on May 30, 2012, 07:08:07 PM
That's not good at all.  :(
Title: Re: Loose parts, shouldn't be loose and certainly not where I found them
Post by: stopintime on May 31, 2012, 01:51:57 AM
I didn't notice any noise, but the gear holder arm had taken a beating so it didn't quite do it's job holding the gears steady (which wasn't a problem really) It has been repaired and functions well.

The small alu piece was a cast ridge - securing the gear holder spring. The spring still has a little alu to hold on to. I will look into if it can be secured better.

It's a cell phone picture, but you can see some of the damage - bolt of gear holder arm and some scratches on the case.

Probably just a matter of time until more of the springs would have come loose and then it might have been much worse.

(http://i329.photobucket.com/albums/l394/stopintime/Oops/Oops6.jpg)
Title: Re: Loose parts, shouldn't be loose and certainly not where I found them
Post by: He Man on May 31, 2012, 08:08:40 AM
sorry to hear, is may a bad month for motor failures? :P
Title: Re: Loose parts, shouldn't be loose and certainly not where I found them
Post by: stopintime on May 31, 2012, 12:47:54 PM
Quote from: He Man on May 31, 2012, 08:08:40 AM
sorry to hear, is may a bad month for motor failures? :P

As bad as any other non-winter month  [cheeky]
Title: Re: Loose parts, shouldn't be loose and certainly not where I found them
Post by: Raux on May 31, 2012, 12:54:28 PM
is it going to be ready for the trip?
Title: Re: Loose parts, shouldn't be loose and certainly not where I found them
Post by: Speeddog on May 31, 2012, 01:02:21 PM
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8161/7310126140_ebddb5b728.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/26339726@N03/7310126140/)

Check the area I've circled, it's a pocket to catch oil for the trans output shaft bearing.

You don't want any of the shrapnel in that bearing.
Title: Re: Loose parts, shouldn't be loose and certainly not where I found them
Post by: stopintime on May 31, 2012, 02:25:20 PM
Quote from: Raux on May 31, 2012, 12:54:28 PM
is it going to be ready for the trip?

It's ready - my dealer had a new basket in stock (much to our surprise).

Speeddog: visual check and air pressure. The damage on the edge of that pocket is just cosmetic. We found very few pieces on the oil plug magnet, in the mesh filter and when poking around with a magnet on a stick thingy.

There is no way to be 100% sure and discovery of any other damage would take a full disassembly, which I hope to delay another couple of years. It's a shame Kämna didn't offer a dry conversion last year - I think I would have said yes - would already have paid for itself.... Besides, it would ruin my Alps + WDW trip, most of the season and be expensive. It has to be opened again later this summer to put in new clutch plates (didn't have those in stock, but my current stack is 52 mm against recommended minimum 50 mm) and the we'll have a better idea how it has held up. Of course, closing my eyes and hoping for the best could be even more expensive, but I don't hate the odds.
The careful rides since yesterday have been smooth and without new noises or vibrations.

Wish me luck [Dolph]


(http://i329.photobucket.com/albums/l394/stopintime/Oops/Oops1.jpg)
Title: Re: Loose parts, shouldn't be loose and certainly not where I found them
Post by: Raux on June 01, 2012, 12:15:20 AM
Getting close, I know you sent the route, but are you riding solo?
Title: Re: Loose parts, shouldn't be loose and certainly not where I found them
Post by: suzyj on June 01, 2012, 04:18:55 PM
stopintime, that motor looks like a total writeoff.  Time to upgrade to a 1K, I reckon.

I'll take the broken motor off you, if you like.  It'd be a good source of valves for my motor (and 900 cams, HC pistons, 800 crank...)

No need for you to pay me to take it off your hands.  I'm generous like that.
Title: Re: Loose parts, shouldn't be loose and certainly not where I found them
Post by: stopintime on June 01, 2012, 04:26:16 PM
You pay shipping?





Actually I think that if something serious happened, I would go for an 1183(?) big bore 1000/1100 and do it all over.
That could be close to 130 bhp at the wheel and more torque than I can spell...
Title: Re: Loose parts, shouldn't be loose and certainly not where I found them
Post by: brad black on June 02, 2012, 01:48:09 AM
we had an early s2r800 that did it twice.
Title: Re: Loose parts, shouldn't be loose and certainly not where I found them
Post by: stopintime on June 02, 2012, 09:21:06 AM
Quote from: brad black on June 02, 2012, 01:48:09 AM
we had an early s2r800 that did it twice.

So, you're saying a dry conversion is absolutely required - don't you?

I have to do it, don't I?

No way around it, is there?

;D
Title: Re: Loose parts, shouldn't be loose and certainly not where I found them
Post by: Raux on June 02, 2012, 09:23:01 AM
I'll let you know how it goes for the dry conversion
Title: Re: Loose parts, shouldn't be loose and certainly not where I found them
Post by: stopintime on June 02, 2012, 09:28:14 AM
Are the earlier non-APTC wet clutches without the inside-gear-mounted springs?

If these baskets are interchangeable - maybe the announced EVR small case wet slipper will be a solution....
Title: Re: Loose parts, shouldn't be loose and certainly not where I found them
Post by: BK_856er on June 02, 2012, 01:39:07 PM
My '07 APTC clutch doesn't have springs in the basket/gear assembly or in the small primary gear.

BK
Title: Re: Loose parts, shouldn't be loose and certainly not where I found them
Post by: ducatiz on June 02, 2012, 01:48:45 PM
put a small neodymium magnet in the bottom of the drain and put some on your oil filter on the outside.

that will catch the steel/iron stuff if there is any floating around.

the pickup screen will stop antyhing in the bottom of the engine, but yeah, if it's already in a bearing .. hmm..

maybe flush everything with a spray?  just to dislodge and move it down?  Perhaps a fogging spray, they are compatible with your oil if it stays in the crankcase.
Title: Re: Loose parts, shouldn't be loose and certainly not where I found them
Post by: Raux on June 02, 2012, 01:49:07 PM
Quote from: stopintime on June 02, 2012, 09:28:14 AM
Are the earlier non-APTC wet clutches without the inside-gear-mounted springs?

If these baskets are interchangeable - maybe the announced EVR small case wet slipper will be a solution....

reminds me, they owe me information
Title: Re: Loose parts, shouldn't be loose and certainly not where I found them
Post by: stopintime on June 02, 2012, 02:37:19 PM
Quote from: BK_856er on June 02, 2012, 01:39:07 PM
My '07 APTC clutch doesn't have springs in the basket/gear assembly or in the small primary gear.

BK


Have you seen this yourself? It's interesting - clutch pack and at least one hub part number are the same.
Ducati must think the mighty 803 cc needs shock absorbing springs to protect it from itself. PROTECT!!!  [roll]


Ducatiz: I did 700 miles plus two track days with the bike in this condition. The damage that could occur and the circulation of metal parts will most probably have been completed, don't you think?  I will study the oil, screen, filter and poke around with a magnet next oil change/upcoming clutch pack job, but other than that I'm just keeping my fingers crossed I suppose.


Quote from: Raux on June 02, 2012, 01:49:07 PM
reminds me, they owe me information

...and you me  [thumbsup]
Title: Re: Loose parts, shouldn't be loose and certainly not where I found them
Post by: BK_856er on June 02, 2012, 02:57:52 PM
Quote from: stopintime on June 02, 2012, 02:37:19 PM
Have you seen this yourself? It's interesting - clutch pack and at least one hub part number are the same.
Ducati must think the mighty 803 cc needs shock absorbing springs to protect it from itself. PROTECT!!!  [roll]
..

Yep.  Had it all apart and made note of it at the time.  Fully expected to find cush springs.  Look at the old thread "s2r 800 clutch damage" and a couple other owners also report lack of spring type cush system.  Parts bin special or deliberate design change - who knows!  Glad I have one less thing to worry about...

BK
Title: Re: Loose parts, shouldn't be loose and certainly not where I found them
Post by: Betlog on June 03, 2012, 08:24:51 PM
Quote from: BK_856er on June 02, 2012, 02:57:52 PM
Yep.  Had it all apart and made note of it at the time.  Fully expected to find cush springs.  Look at the old thread "s2r 800 clutch damage" and a couple other owners also report lack of spring type cush system.  Parts bin special or deliberate design change - who knows!  Glad I have one less thing to worry about...

BK


Right.  I've read in another forum who replaced theirs with one from the 620.  Apparently it fits.
Title: Re: Loose parts, shouldn't be loose and certainly not where I found them
Post by: brad black on June 04, 2012, 02:40:03 AM
the sprung hub in the 800 was to protect the gearbox, which is the old 400 6 speed.  maybe the gearbox proved much more reliable than the sprung clutch so they dumped it.
Title: Re: Loose parts, shouldn't be loose and certainly not where I found them
Post by: stopintime on June 04, 2012, 03:01:33 AM
Quote from: brad black on June 04, 2012, 02:40:03 AM
the sprung hub in the 800 was to protect the gearbox, which is the old 400 6 speed.  maybe the gearbox proved much more reliable than the sprung clutch so they dumped it.

Do you mean that they dumped the sprung clutch? I ask because they didn't. My S2R 800 was the last of the APTC bikes.
In your opinion, will a non-sprung basket/gear be a smart move? (from a 620 or a 695)