Ducati Monster Forum

Hope it is fine weather this weekend

+1

really tired of rain races.

I'm not ;D
(http://pix.crash.net/motorsport/360/PA940865.jpg)

+1

I can do without the crashes, but rain does bunch up the field instead of getting a parade.

Almost makes them as good as a WSBK race. [popcorn] [laugh]

FP1

Pos. Rider Team Bike Time
1 Casey Stoner Repsol Honda Team Honda RC213V 1:42.775
2 Dani Pedrosa Repsol Honda Team Honda RC213V 1:42.875
3 Jorge Lorenzo Yamaha Factory Racing Yamaha M1 1:43.008
4 Cal Crutchlow Yamaha Tech 3 Yamaha M1 1:43.182
5 Ben Spies Yamaha Factory Racing Yamaha M1 1:43.191
6 Stefan Bradl LCR Honda MotoGP Honda RC213V 1:43.245
7 Nicky Hayden Marlboro Ducati Team Ducati GP12 1:43.246
8 Karel Abraham Cardion AB Motoracing Ducati GP12 1:43.315
9 Andrea Dovizioso Yamaha Tech 3 Yamaha M1 1:43.371
10 Alvaro Bautista Honda Gresini Honda RC213V 1:43.493
11 Valentino Rossi Marlboro Ducati Team Ducati GP12 1:43.537
12 Hector Barbera Pramac Racing Team Ducati GP12 1:43.624
13 Randy De Puniet Aspar Team MotoGP ART 1:44.915
14 Aleix Espargaro Aspar Team MotoGP ART1:42. 1:45.281
15 Michele Pirro Honda Gresini FTR 1:45.939
16 Mattia Pasini Speedmaster ART 1:46.234
17 Colin Edwards Forward Racing Suter 1:46.748
18 Ivan Silva BQR BQR-FTR 1:46.848
19 James Ellison Paul Bird Racing ART 1:46.908
20 Danilo Petrucci Ioda Racing Project Ioda 1:47.181

i'm hoping for dry moto 2/3, wet moto1

FP2

Pos. Rider Team Bike Time
1 Jorge Lorenzo Yamaha Factory Racing Yamaha M1 1:42.099
2 Alvaro Bautista Honda Gresini Honda RC213V 1:42.306
3 Cal Crutchlow Yamaha Tech 3 Yamaha M1 1:42.447
4 Andrea Dovizioso Yamaha Tech 3 Yamaha M1 1:42.592
5 Hector Barbera Pramac Racing Team Ducati GP12 1:42.639
6 Ben Spies Yamaha Factory Racing Yamaha M1 1:42.802
7 Dani Pedrosa Repsol Honda Team Honda RC213V 1:42.870
8 Stefan Bradl LCR Honda MotoGP Honda RC213V 1:42.943
9 Nicky Hayden Marlboro Ducati Team Ducati GP12 1:43.057
10 Casey Stoner Repsol Honda Team Honda RC213V 1:43.134
11 Karel Abraham Cardion AB Motoracing Ducati GP12 1:43.341
12 Valentino Rossi Marlboro Ducati Team Ducati GP12 1:43.538
13 Aleix Esparago Aspar Team MotoGP ART 1:44.738
14 Randy De Puniet Aspar Team MotoGP ART 1:44.771
15 Michele Pirro Honda Gresini FTR 1:45.631
16 Colin Edwards Forward Racing Suter 1:45.868
17 Yonny Hernandez BQR BQR-FTR 1:46.450
18 Ivan Silva BQR BQR-FTR 1:46.500
19 Matt Pasini Speedmaster ART 1:46.503
20 James Ellison Paul Bird Racing ART 1:46.836

+11ty billion ;D

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7078/7315246552_2e1796f3f9_z.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/79721557@N02/7315246552/)

He's a make the beast with two backsing animal

And that has to be turn 2

 [cheeky]

What happened to Stoner during FP2? Is he sand baggin it?

http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/180351/1/stoner_pedrosa_shun_time_attack.html (http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/180351/1/stoner_pedrosa_shun_time_attack.html)

He and the Smurf stayed on the hard tires, didn't try the soft tires.

Oh. You would have thought that if they wanted to test the longevity of the soft tires, that they would have mounted them from the beginning of the session.

The Smurf ran the soft tires in the morning (FP1).

Seems a bit odd, but they're among the sharpest knives in the drawer.

Hmmm... when does The Ben and Perdrobot lose their factory rides? I'm still a fan of The Ben (even like his hamburger restaurant here in Dallas!) but not of Pedrobot. Maybe they can get a job serving and busing tables at Stackhouse Hamburgers!! [laugh] I think The Ben should go back to his roots and run WSBK. Pedrobot... hmmm, I'm thinking busing tables. Don't see him as a WSBK rider. Maybe Moto2??? [popcorn]

Totally. The guy who finished 2nd should be busing tables.  [roll]

ben's "roots" was running 2-stroke gp bikes in the cmra.  ;)

Moto 2 was f'n awesome.

Yup...

But Marquez is a douchebag. [thumbsdown]

What happened? I started watching at the end of Moto2 and don't understand what happened with Espargo

Also the only guy that has been able to keep up with Lorenzo and Stoner.

Never mind. Saw the highlight. He almost highsided and brought the bike back onto the racing line. That was a douchebag move.

And, again, no consequences. I thought that maybe, since he took out a catalonian this time, there might be some. But I failed to take into account how far up Repsol's ass the series is.

The expression on the face of the yamaha prez when spies went down did not bode well at all for his contract next year.

Marquez seriously is the biggest douchebag of them all. That was such a bullshit move on his part  [thumbsdown]

I really don't want to see him in the GP because of those types of things that he has a penchant for doing... but alas  he is riding the Repsol train

On the other hand, what a pity for Ben. He finally got a good start

I think Marc is a pile .... but not for today's incident. After having just saved the bike on his knee... coming back into Pol was a fluke thing. Watching it in slo-mo... it looks deliberate, but when viewed at normal speed.... not so much ( IMO)

And Pol..... there's no crying in Moto2.... motoGP maybe .... but not moto2

Pedro is a top three fastest guy in the world, soon to be number two when Stoner vacates his seat.  He deserves his ride.  Ben has no results to show for anything he's doing in MotoGP this year.  He may have won, but he screwed up.  Bad luck and mistakes is becoming the norm for him.  Once again we go back to "he needs to turn it around quickly or lose his ride."

Moto 2  [bow_down]

That was a shit move by Marquez. I don't think running into Pol was intentional, but given the overall situation Marquez needs to leave some room after his near crash. Even if he doesn't see/feel that someone is there, he has to suspect it given that he was in traffic and obviously slowed, and leave a little bit of room. He should have seen Pol though...he had the line and was completely beside Marquez.

Seems that both Rossi and Stoner disagree with race control giving Marquez the minute penalty.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/100106 (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/100106)

If Pol was on the racing line, it is Marquez' responsibility to safely get back in.

 :o
Can't believe they penalized him! Must be 'cuz he took out a Spaniard, in Spain no less  ;)

This: "He was in front and it was impossible to see Espargaro."  everyone saying he's an asshole, what, did he forget to check his mirrors?

yeah :'(.  and he was obviously being held up by dani.

another zero in the books but nice to see him pushing again at least.  the ride back to 10th was fun.. incl that pass on barbera.  he was pissed.

If you're that far off the line, is it not your responsibility to make sure you don't kill anybody reentering?

He knew he was in tight traffic with 3 others (1 behind him), then went wide. Even if he didn't see Espargaro, he should have left a bit of room as it was reasonable to assume he'd be there. There was no reason to dive all the way to the apex anyway...leaving a foot or two wouldn't have made a difference.

I don't 100% believe he didn't see him anyway. Espargaro was fully along side him when Marquez hit him. You usually see a wheel long before that when someone passes you. I think Marquez saw him coming in his periphery and tried to shut the door.

He got away with his BS braking move a couple races ago on Luthi, so for the two incidents combined I think the penalty is deserved.

The expression on the face of the yamaha prez when spies went down did not bode well at all for his contract next year.

I thought the same thing watching it on Speed.
It might have been the day that cost him his ride.

I agree that maybe "The Ben" should go back to WSBK, and hopefully take Hayden, Rossi and Colin with him.
 :)

It's always impossible to see if you don't look.

He knew Espagaro would be there. He was hoping he'd get there first so his front wheel wouldn't take a hit.

He was right....it just didn't work out in the long run.

I'm pretty sure it was overturned by the stewards a few hours later.   Marquez retains 2nd in the championship....

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/100112 (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/100112)

Sigh. Shocking.

Rep$ol. Enough said. It was and will continue to be a douchbag move. In every trackday I have been involved in, they have pushed it into my brain to be mindful of staying on the racing line. If you're off the line, it is your responsibility to reenter safely. Apparently Marquez never learned that lesson.

trackday != racing

in general i don't disagree with the first part there, of course.  and marquez sure as hell makes some questionable moves from time to time.

but watch it again: half his move back to the racing line was involuntary.  he lost the front, picked it up with his elbow, and when it re-gained traction it tossed him back toward the apex.  and he was in front.  granted by that point pol was traveling much faster.

racing incident.

That is such bullshit! Don't give me any "I couldn't see him" crap

At that level of racing he should know well enough not to come flying the make the beast with two backs back in there like Sea Biscuit... Especially after someone has been chasing him down for 21 freakin' laps. What did he think was going to happen?

OK, someone needs to post a video of the incident so we can analyze it endlessly!  [laugh] If what gm2 is saying is correct about Marquez not having total control, then I'd agree it's a racing incident. It didn't look that way to me, but then again, I only watched it a couple times.

Stoner and Rossi chiming in to support Marquez is funny. If he'd have done that to either of them, they'd both be crying...especially Stoner.

to maintain the line once he got back under control was aggressive, yes.  but this is a race.  he definitely could not see pol and he was at the edge of the track, in front of pol.  he had the position. 

yet.. obviously pol was going much faster by then and really had nowhere to go.  sucks, but it's not like he, say, deliberately cut off someone's nose at the end of the front straight.

 

Yeah he did that one earlier in the race.  [laugh] (No it wasn't a dick move but he tends to strafe across the front of someone literally the moment he clears their front wheel.)

What he said. [thumbsup]

Yup... the only saving grace might be that he had the exact same expression when Lorenzo won.  haha

Here you go....

http://www.speedtv.com/video/moto-racing/moto2-catalan-gp-2012-1671059717001 (http://www.speedtv.com/video/moto-racing/moto2-catalan-gp-2012-1671059717001)


The incident starts @ 2:55 with the overhead view @ 3:30.  It's hard to not watch the whole highlight reel though; I dare ya to try...

looks like marques is the victim in all of this. Pol was off line going wide coming into the turn as well. Marques regained control and moved back slowly in control to the line where he wanted to be. Pol was all out of shape bouncing around before trying to stuff him out. Bad decision by Pol.

i said the same thing to gm2 earlier...

that said, when lorenzo won, he did give a little fist pump.

(he's really not a very expressive guy)

let's see, the right on-camera reaction that will help me keep jorge next year but pay him the least amount more than i absolutely have to is....

 

http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/180446/1/motogp_podium_trio_give_views_on_marquez_clash.html (http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/180446/1/motogp_podium_trio_give_views_on_marquez_clash.html)

I really don't know who was at fault because, for example, when Jorge passed me [at that turn] it was a little different, but almost the same,” said Pedrosa. “I ran a little wide. I knew I left the door open. I didn't know if he was there, but I couldn't come back like no-one was there just in case.

“Maybe, yes, Pol was a little behind at that moment, but also Marquez has to be aware that if you leave the door open someone can get in. So it is difficult to say.”

Can't believe I agree with Pedrobot!  [laugh]

What was in the buckets?

Incidente espargaró marquez moto 2 catalunya gp (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=CsZwoJsnmXA#)

that's a much better angle.

I definitely think it was intention

when played at a very slow speed....


speed it up to a normal pace and factor in that Marc just got passed.... just lost the front end.... and is still hanging off the bike....and it's very late in the race.... I dont see where he has time to think.... "cut Pol off."

speaking of slow speed.... did anybody catch the super slo-mo shot of all four of them lined up?

Plus, I doubt Marquez would intentionally risk himself getting tangled in a crash.  It was a racing incident.  They happen.

But... that being said..... Marc be a dooooosh.

Certainly not any worse than the Bowling for BMW's incident at Donington Park a few weeks ago.

The guy was thinking "need to get back to the line", which is irresponsible and should have been punished. I can't believe I agree with the Turd. Marquez had regained control by then and ran it back in like a bat out of hell. The kid is fast, but he has no sense.

yeah, that was incredible

Pretty eloquently delivers my feelings as well...

http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2012/Appeal+of+Pons+to+the+FIM (http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2012/Appeal+of+Pons+to+the+FIM)

Someone gets it.  [thumbsup]

'did not acknowledge the crash' - ?

I'm sorry for him and I apologise for it happening - I hope that he isn't hurt, because I didn't even know that he had crashed until the end.

 

^Horseshit.
guess he also "doesn't know" when he runs a guy right off the track.

tell us how you really feel.  ;D

nah, i'm pretty sure he knew when he was doing that.. all 17 times.

Are you being sarcastic?

seriously...

'cuz the little puke rides like an asshole.

Just sayin'.

I think they mean, he did not acknowledge it on track immediately after the incident.  He obviously felt the contact, probably saw Pol's bike disappear out of his peripheral.  He did not even look back to check, wave a hand/foot in apology. 

He knew SOMETHING happened.

I agree Marc was back in control before contact, but I also think Pol was taking a shallow line hoping to capitalize, it looks like he might have run it on the curb and lost some stability.  As he tries to regain stability he shoots a little wide on the exit.

I say racing incident.  Regardless of what you feel about Marquez....that was a hell of a save!

Just watched the moto2 race tonight.

One thing not mentioned yet, is that Pol's bike was out-of-sorts too as he was going through the turn - it was really pumping.  I think he might have been in the process of loosing control also, and this contributed partly to the strange dismount from the bike.

Marc though rides like a dick.  I would like to see Iannone and him tangle some more.  As the announcers said, Iannone has some sharp elbows.

mitt

I agree Marquez rides like a maniac, but the sport needs another hotrod character.  Guys like that carry viewership and keep sponsors interested.  Marco Simoncelli ruffled a lot of feathers and rode like a dick sometimes too.  Its too bad he passed, because I would have loved to see those guys on the same track.  Fast, cocky, on the edge riders have their role.  Those type of riders will have no problem stuffing it up the inside of Lorenzo in the future, which is what you need to beat him.  It happened to Rossi.

Lorenzo came into GP as a fast, cocky, over the edge rider.  Simoncelli was the same, but even more prone to jam the bike into tight spots. 

Lets not forget how amazing that save was prior to resuming his race like nothing happened.  I like Marquez.  The dude has balls.  Bring it on.

 [thumbsup]

my feelings exactly

yeah he was all out of shape and made a bad decision.

Yer a Spaniard. Your opinion is biased!  [laugh]  ;D

You admitted to me that you have a thing for George.

Was thinking about this last night, and I've gotta say....

Lots of spectators don't like the procession of MotoGP, complaining that there's no close racing.
There's close racing in SBK and Moto2.
But close racing means the bikes are *close together*.
That means they occasionally hit each other and fall down.
But then folks complain that they're knocking each other down.

no, i was being serious.  that cut off your nose thing is a dick move.

however i also very much agree with this


and this


i don't think the racetrack is a place to be polite (unless it's a track day, of course).  

i also think the line between not polite and out of line is pretty damn thin.  so at times we have these discussions.  and once in a while it's make the beast with two backsing out of line and you get slapped (marquez, qatar).

i think he made an amazing save and was trying to win.  i think he was not trying to take out pol.  i think pol was out of shape and it couldn't be helped.  ergo, racing incident.

i also totally believe that he didn't know pol had crashed.  racers run into each other all the time.  usually no one crashes, sometimes they do.  for the guy in front, you just about never know one way or the other.  that just happened at, what, donington, miller?  someone drove right into the back of melandri.  no one fell down.  if whoever that was had, marco wouldn't have known it til later.

either way, i'd much rather have these discussions than watch a processional.  also why i was so (of course..) bummed for spies in barcelona but also so totally stoked for 2 laps.  he was riding like himself again, however briefly.  just the tip-in to T1 from the start had me out of my seat.
 

I guess we can agree to disagree about intent.

Someone will repay him the favor some day...

what goes around comes around.

What happened to him at Qatar? I don't thnk he's ever been penalized.  ???

I don't think Marquez meant to "take out" Pol...but I do think he knew he was there and tried to shut the door when it was already too late. Bad decision and poor riding IMO.

I do like the racing though, and would much rather be discussing this than talking out a boring race!  [drink]

Meaning you think he intended to give pol nowhere to go?

I think he does that on the front straight.  In that race a couple times.  But to shut the door on someone at full lean deliberately?  That's almost always not going to work out for the door shutter. 

I DO think he could have looked.  I don't fault him for not.  50/50 as dovi said.  50/50 to me is a (n aggressive) racing incident.

http://motomatters.com/news/2012/04/10/marquez_and_luthi_issued_formal_warning_.html (http://motomatters.com/news/2012/04/10/marquez_and_luthi_issued_formal_warning_.html)

Whoa...he was issued a warning for Qatar? Wow...I was worried that he might have actually been punished for making a dick move.

Regardless of all this, we have some very good riders coming through the ranks right now and they are going to be the reason MotoGP gets its heartbeat back in the next five years.  Losing Stoner is a big hit and we need the next crop of hotshots to take the torch from Rossi and give Lorenzo a run for his money.  While technical regulations seem a bit iffy, the handful of talent graduating to the big show in the next few years is looking good.

I believe I saw that Italy is trying to get a better youth program going like they have in Spain, which will pay dividends over the next decade to the racing we get in the grand prix classes.

My GP subscription is largely justified by Moto3 and Moto2 at the moment.  That's ironic since I'm paying for a "MotoGP.com" sub.  The more exciting riders we have moving through the ranks, the better it is for everyone.

The inevitable comparisons to Sic. The difference is that marco did get penalized for his dick moves. That is how he learned that he can't just bully people out of the way. Marco was turning into a better rider by being patient. I doubt he would have learned anything without getting slapped on the hand here and there.

Ya, I knew about that. Like I said...he's never been penalized. Bottom line is he is the common thread in these incidents, which is why I thought the 1 minute penalty was fair.

It seems he just needs to figure out that aggressive is good...but he isn't the only one on the track.

That's exactly what I think.

All four of those guys were on the ragged edge.

I think he made a great save...

regained control...

and when Pol tried to go by still a little loose...

he punted him.

i don't think he could see him until after the contact, if he saw him at all.

but, ok.  :)


 [beer]

Don't you have to actually look to the race line to see if the race line is clear? Just sayin'...
Now granted, he didn't go off track and he wasn't gaining position with his dick move.
But that doesn't discount the fact that it was a dick move.
Bear in mind that I have no love for Pol either, but I definitely think he got the shit end of a shit covered stick.

eh, yes and no.  i really do agree with the 50/50 thing.  he couldn't see him from his helmet peripheral which in race speak means he's not there.  should he have looked, yeah maybe.  would he almost definitely have given up the spot if he looked?  yup.

i'm not making any arguments for marquez not having dirty hands a lot of the time.  he does.  but this one.. eh.  racing incident in my eyes.

look at it this way: how would everyone feel about it if exactly the same thing had happened, only pol hadn't crashed?  if there had been some contact and the race continued.

 

we'd be looking at it like WSBK or BSB where fender bashing can and does happen regularly enough and call it racing, but generally, no crashes occur when it does happen, which is what makes this the heated discussion that it leans towards...

All that being said....moto 3 was even better.

I think the problem is
1) that he took out the championship leader
2) he didn't look when coming back on the racing line
3) he is known for chopping off riders noses once just past
4) he is the new Spanish golden child
5) there is no consequence for his actions ( see item 4)
I first thought it was a racing incident but after watching it a few times, he should of looked before moving to the racing line, that being said, shit happens in the heat of battle