Ducati Monster Forum

So much talk about Rossi simply NOT doing well because hes getting old. The issue NOT being the bike.. casey stoner could ride it well.  Now, we finally have a chance to find out WHO is right. No more monday morning quarterbacking! Dont be a WUSS, put in your predictions now!

When Rossi returns to Yamaha (being even older), will he place top 10?  Top5? Top3? in his first MotoGP event?

Ooo this is going to be soooo intersting :)

There's a whole thread...like 14 pages of speculation about Rossi...Ducati...and his move to Yamaha in Racing and Trackdays.

http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=56366.msg1047120#msg1047120 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=56366.msg1047120#msg1047120)

Where you been?

wow , I missed that one. Looks like a good read. Will run through it. But still.. it doesnt have a POLL!  Everyone always has an opinion AFTER the fact.  Thats no longer a prediction, its just an observation. What im challenging people to do here.. is put your money where your mouth is NOW.  Predict his position.. document for future consideration and ridicule.. or possibly praise.  Will he suck?  Maybe he has gotten old?  It was the bike? Hell finish top 5 or 3. No one likes to be wrong, so most people wont vote.. but theyll say "i told you so, AFTER the event".

...and since it concerns Racing...

where should it be?  ;D

<confused>  Who is this Rossi dude?  Got a link?  Google told me he was the 31st mayor of San Francisco.  

Umm...the "GOATs For Sale" section?   [coffee]

:P

A poll isn't a bet and you seem to be looking for Vegas...this ain't Vegas...in that same section of the forum, many have pontificated on many things and all are earmarked by a few individuals whom like to remind others of those predictions at the most defining of moments...and alot of times they are done so repeatedly...so feel free to look for those answers you seek there as previously suggested...

I guess your not going to vote?  [laugh]

nope...

do I think he is capable of top 5? Yes!
do I think he is going to be on the podium more than once next year?...I think it stands a very high chance indeed...hell, he might even win a race or 2...but I don't see him winning a championship just because he moves back to Yamaha...I don't know what the odds are and I don't care. What
I want is to see some of these guys really mixing it up together and see some position swapping and real racing instead of the parading that we have mostly gotten over the last 5+ years of GP racing...and that is the + side of Rossi's move back to Yamaha imho....

I can respect that. Its more about the sport.. than any individual. Make sense.  Personally, I was just curious if the love we all have for  of our brand has clouded our ability to think objectively about who or what is the cause of the lackluster results between ducati/rossi.

CLEARLY the love for our brand is what makes us all that much more critical of Ducati and how far they had their head up their own ass when it comes to the bike and their riders feedback...and the black eye that is publicly adorned on the Corse department for this whole enlightenment amidst the course of Rossi's tenure just made it all that much more!

Let's keep this on the topic of next year please.

sorry...I was just responding to the " clouded judgement " portion specifically...to which I hope the end result is that the GP13 will be a more successful bike due to the public failure of the Rossi project as I will know the GP12 to always be...

The poll choices are missing the most important option.


....."option" is the wrong word since everyone knows boobies is the only choice that matters.

wow, results are tallying pretty optimistically.  I thought top 5 was having high hopes!

what's rossi's career-worst season-end ranking not on a ducati?

Just tell us and end the suspense.  ;D

hehehe... it was 9th in his first year of 125gp.  ;D however he did come back the next year and win the championship, finished 2nd the following year in 250gp, and finished 1st the following year before going to 500gp.

he's been 1st, 2nd, or 3rd on non-italian bikes for his entire career (his 125 and 250 seasons were on aprilias).

I'm not certain he has that any longer.

think he won't be on the podium in Qatar?

There is that possibility.

Do we need a 2013 wager thread?  [evil]

yup.  [evil]

rossi on the box in qatar.

top 3 for the season.

agreed.

Derby....

is there anything in the entire world you don't know?  ;D

Top 3 - I believe I believe

It's a chick I'm surprised you don't know her. Where have you been?

http://www.yelp.com/biz/law-office-of-anna-m-rossi-san-francisco (http://www.yelp.com/biz/law-office-of-anna-m-rossi-san-francisco)

First race... He'll crash out having a Ducati flashback.  ;)

No.  A Ducati rider will take him out.  Similar to what he did to Stoner.    ;)

I said top5, mainly because the competition will be worse - no stoner, no dovi on a yamaha, etc etc.


mitt

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valentino_Rossi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valentino_Rossi)

:)

only to "check my work"...  ;D

and i'll admit, i'd forgotten about his 9th place in his debut year (though i really shouldn't have 'cause i recall them mentioning it in reference to his first season at ducati).

Yep, it appears that JLo and Pedrobot are his only real competition. The Ducatis will suck, the satellites will be just a tad slower than the factory bikes, and Marquez is a rookie. He'll probably get a podium, but one of the satellites may squeeze by...maybe.

bradl may get factory equipment..

Then he'll be the satellite squeezing by.  ;D

I forgot about him. I honestly didn't expect much from him this year, but he's looked good so far.  [thumbsup]

Marquez will torpedo Rossi in one of his overzealous overtaking manuevers thus taking both of them out!

And Lorenzo will give him a huge hug for it.

I can see Mork MarBrian W getting away with his douchey strafing pass move once...maybe twice before he finds himself spitting out gravel and maybe a few teeth because he pulled it on someone in MotoGP. Of course...it would bring a little more entertainment to the class...

As long as he doesn't try to sweep sand off the starting line at 2 AM..and get caught, again   ;D


BTW - it's "fare", not "fair"

wiw, almost 70 percent believe he will ride into the top 5 on his first yamaha ride. I feel the same way.

No worse than this....

http://www.twowheelsblog.com/post/15629/jeremy-burgess-criticizes-ducatis-slowness (http://www.twowheelsblog.com/post/15629/jeremy-burgess-criticizes-ducatis-slowness)

welcome back video

Welcome Home Vale! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=EkqOOE7VJVk#)

I'm actually beginning to think that the more interesting speculation will be which will be the best ducati rider this upcoming year.  Got a range of choices there from fiery rookie with Ianonne, talented up and comer with Spies, veteran rider with Dovi, and wildcard with Redding.

You left out the Kentucky Kid. [Dolph]

Doh... he actually totally slipped my mind.  I think it's because... well... I like Nicky and all... but he's had a lot of time on the Duc so far with not much to show :\

He's been pretty consistent with an inconsistent crap bike. give him a great bike, inconsistent or not, and I think you might be surprised

^ This also.  ;D [popcorn]

...and other than Stoner...

who has?

Stretching the envelope a bit..... Capirossi did fairly well, 7 wins total on the Duc and finished the season 3rd in '06.

Granted, but the 990 was a totally different bike, and the tires were a different animal.

Did Capi ever ride the 800, and if so what were his results on it?

he did and they were not so hot.

Best line is "biggest mistake of my life." [roll] [bang] [bacon]

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2013/Feb/130201z.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2013/Feb/130201z.htm)

"I didn't learn one thing in two years."  (VR in a different article).

Even for Stoner; when he wasn't contending he was crashing....

We did.. Stoner is better  [evil]

Interesting. 2 years off the yami.. and hes comes back only 2/10ths of a second behind lorenzo in 2013 test results. Thats downright scary! Top3 in test results. That man is the GOAT!

It was a mistake, but in a way it allowed him to reflect and accept that Jorge is as good as he is, or better at this point in his career.  By being humbled and finally knocked off his pedestal, he embraces the younger generation and has more respect for their ability.  It also reignites his fire, as he needs to prove he can still compete on a weekly basis for wins/podiums.

http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2013/rossi+interview+on+season+2013 (http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2013/rossi+interview+on+season+2013)

"I know how to win, but maybe in Ducati it was only me who knew how to.”

SLAM

Ouch

Rossi's selective memory just makes me laugh....

Stoner won 3 of the last 6 races in 2010 on the same bike that Rossi couldn't get closer than 1.5 sec off the pace in Valencia.

but we all know that what stoner could do on that bike literally no one else could, right?
 

Absolutely.  [beer]

So...

doesn't that mean that Rossi didn't know how to win? ;D

+1


Maybe Stoner is the only one who knows how to win! [DP and I had the same thought  ;D]

I know Rossi has a point, but he should shut up about it already!

why should he shut up?  only once during two years was he openly critical toward ducati.  the other 99% of the time he was saying all the right things in the media.  over and over and over...


dp, i'm just ignoring your question.   [cheeky]

 

Because it's over. If this was Stoner talking everyone would be going on and on about how big of a whiner he is.

We seem to forget that according to the telemetry for most of Stoner's races on the Duc, he should have crashed...a LOT.

Does this mean that Stoner is better than Rossi?
On the Duc...of course. Stoner had some serious voodoo magic going on with that bike.
In general? We will never know now will we?

Rossi did extremely will with a difficult situation when it came to publicity. I would have been kicking the Duc over in the paddock every time I got ready to ride it and then said I couldn't ride the bike because it fell over.

I don't think he is wrong in his assessment.

Maybe because Stoner came across as having a sandy vajayjay versus Rossi's comments in conversational passing. He hasn't been randomly saying shit sucked at Ducati. He only comments when asked specific questions about his time at Ducati.

Me neither. The Duc clearly sucks...even if Stoner could ride it.


Same as Stoner's complaints on various topics...he was always asked, and just told it like he saw it. I think the only real difference is that Rossi compains with a smile on his face.

technically he crashed many times per race.  we'll never know how he did it.



he also barely ever complains.

i wouldn't say it was "the same bike..."

the very first thing rossi and burgess did was try to fix what everybody, including stoner, agrees was a very broken bike.

even if you follow the "evolution" of the gpxx through the 800cc era, it got progressively worse year on year.

Nov 7th, 2010
2010 MotoGP Valencia race with Stoner on board, finishing 2nd, 4.5 sec behind Lorenzo, and 4.5 sec *ahead* of Rossi (on a Yamaha).

Nov 9th, 2010 Test Day 1
Rossi on the Ducati, 1.870 sec a lap behind Lorenzo, who posted fast time.

Nov 10th, 2010 Test day 2
Rossi on the Ducati, 1.695 sec a lap behind Stoner, who posted fast time.

Rossi was on the same bike as what Stoner just got off of, yes?

sorry, i overlooked that you were just referring to the post-season test.

that said, without knowing what his testing program was, i don't think i'd count those two days against him.

yeah, he was hardly in race shape.

SO he got on a bike that was basically engineered for a specific rider over the previous few seasons and only managed 1.695 seconds off the pace on a bike he had never ridden before?

Yer right...what a whiny little pregnant dog.  [roll]  [laugh]  [cheeky]

In general? we do KNOW.
The most succesfull "winning" motogp rider ever to grace gods green planet!! Giacomo Agostini with 122  GP wins. Guess who is right behind him.. and will surely surpass him within the next 3 years?  VALENTINO ROSSI with 105 wins.  Uhh did someone say Casey stoner (the retired WHINER), 45 wins.

uhh, i know whos the better overall rider.. actually hes more than twice as good, Valentino Rossi.

AND I could use the same argument for Stoner, he got on a bike engineered for Pedrosa, that he hadn't ridden before, and came in second to Lorenzo on the first day (beating Pedrosa), then came first, beating Lorenzo (the 2010 Champion) by over a tenth of a second.

Pretty good for a guy who hadn't been on the bike before.  8)

 [laugh]

This is an absurd comparison, put their career records side by side and Stoner's not even in the same league as Rossi.

Was Stoner simply the Ducati "Rain Man"?

WRT Agostini, he probably owes much of his success to having the best bike for a long time...racing was a lot different back in my day.

Comparing Rossi to Ago is absurd as well. The Golden boy couldn't  race his bike to a win on his best day.  :D

Comparing Stoner to Rossi isn't absurd at all. Since Stoner entered MotoGP (2006):

Wins
Stoner - 38
Rossi - 26

Podiums
Stoner - 69
Rossi - 61

Titles
Stoner - 2
Rossi - 2

Like him or not, Stoner has been the best rider since he entered MotoGP. Nevermind the fact that he's the only guy that could ride the Duc, and that he was flat out dominant the second he sat on the Honda. He won't ever match Rossi's title count, but that doesn't mean a comparison isn't valid for the period he raced with him.

The Ducati Rain Man, and the Honda Savior.

Sounds like Ago and Rossi had quite a bit in common, with always having the best bike. We just saw what Rossi could do on an inferior bike.

You Rossiphiles are funny. He's awesome, and probably the GOAT...but give Stoner credit where it's due. I don't think anyone is more happy about Stoner retiring than Rossi.

http://www.motomatters.com/news/2013/02/17/casey_stoner_to_race_three_wildcards_for.html (http://www.motomatters.com/news/2013/02/17/casey_stoner_to_race_three_wildcards_for.html)

[roll]

My point exactly. People seem to forget that I am a HUGE Rossi fanboy. But Casey, during his time in MotoGP was most definitely a threat to Rossi's dominance. Of course Vale was going to come out on top anyway but that doesn't mean Casey wasn't a flippin' beast in his own right.

a good chunk of casey's advantage in the numbers came in 2007 when michelin couldn't build a tire to save their presence in motogp. rossi switched to bridgestone in 2008 and numbers evened out. in fact, michelins sucked so bad, they were completely kicked out the door by 2009.

it would've been really nice if casey had stuck around for 2013 with lorenzo/rossi/stoner all on "equal" equipment.

Yeah...Rossi can't do anything with an inferior bike. I mean look at all the titles Yamaha was winning in MotoGP before 2004...oh...wait...  [cheeky]

True in 2007, but that doesn't totally explain it. It isn't like Capirossi was consistently coming in second on the B'stones. A very large part of it was Stoner's ability. Also, his 2011 season was just as dominant when everyone was on the Bridgestones.

Agreed...would have been great to see them all on good bikes. Could have been an epic season for battles (still might be).

You guys are wasting your breathe. No Rossi fan will ever admit that any other human was better than him. Try as you may to show that when you compare apples to apples, Stoner was able to win on a bike that Rossi routinely brought in 6th or 7th place. Even when you attempt to go waaay back to the days with Yamaha when Stoner, again on an inferior machine, was able to give as good as he got with Rossi on a bike that was basically developed precisely for him. I guess we will never know how dominating Stoner could have been on the Honda as he was on his way to winning another title before he got hurt at Indy. Rossi can sleep well at night indeed.

i'm a rossi fan and can admit that stoner did better on a ducati than rossi did, but...


...the "bike that Rossi routinely brought in 6th or 7th place" wasn't the same bike, save for two days in valencia at the end of 2010.


...but superior tires in 2007...


yes, stoner was able to "keep it close" once rossi got back on competitive tires in 2008.


and, like i said previously it would've been nice to have all the championship-capable guys on championship-capable machinery, instead of the "best" and "worst" factory bikes on the grid.

We would have had 4 aliens and possibly a 5th, with Marquez riding like he rides, fighting it out.

I suspect that Marquez will be very much like Simoncelli was at first. Crashes, taking people out, scolded by race direction and finally getting his head on straight and becoming a force to be reckoned with. And I really hate the guy but he is going to be good once he matures a bit.

As for the whole Rossi/Stoner debate...one thing Rossi has in spades versus Stoner...strong mental fortitude. I mean all you really need to do is look at Rossi's year before Ducati versus Stoner's last year.

I won't even get into the injury aspect of it.

Please explain. I remember both breaking bones, one riding on a broken ankle (the other obviously couldn't ride with his break), and both returning successfully. Please don't say Stoner should have come back sooner. It was well documented that his ankle injury was serious enough that a re-injury during the healing process could cause him to lose function of the joint, and that he shouldn't have even raced at Indy.

Apparently you missed this part of my post...


But to my point, the "mystery illness".

^^^^^^^ Do you truly believe what you write or are you trying to wind people up :)
I mean one eyed is one thing, but this is absolutely hilarious

I think Marquez has more talent than Simoncelli did, and despite making dumb mistakes, will follow a similar career path to Jorge.  I have a feeling Marquez will become a more likable character than Lorenzo as well.

you mean like banging fairings with Jorge at Motegi and then tossing his crutch from the podium to the crowd as a statement?


it is winter after all...there is a special sport in bench racing of riling your fellow board readers up for a good heated discussion when there is no current racing to discuss....LOL


THAT was a media disaster and I truly believe that Stoner would be a wholly different light today with fans and DORNA and everyone IF that had been handled a whole lot better....just saying...


I think Marquez has AS MUCH talent as SuperSic did....I think the transition from a 250 to GP versus a Moto2 bike to GP is a bit different....they both seem to come with a mental fortitude and attitude that is promising...Simo made mistakes...granted...but he also played up the media with a very gregarious attitude comparable to Rossi when it boiled down to dealing with things...and it wasn't because it was/is an italian thing...though I want to see some more media of Marqez to see if and how he sets himself apart from the other Spaniards in GP...Simo knew he had a lot of work to do to adapt to another small but powerful bike with his very gangly frame and riding style...Marquez on the other hand was riding his Moto2 Bike more like we expected to see him ride a GP bike...similar in  style...I think the adaption though will be quicker...he'll still make mistakes...but I think they may be a bit different in charachter and I suspect his crashes will be more low sides from losing the front when pushing the limit....and I expect a couple of fairing bashing moments

Nope, I saw it, just didn't understand what you saying. By Stoner's last year I thought you meant this past year (i.e. the ankle), not his last year at Ducati.

The illness thing still being mentioned is ridiculous. Stoner didn't handle it well from a PR standpoint, but he was clearly sick, and he came back strong. Regarding mental fortitude...I do remember a couple races last season where Rossi sure seemed to have packed it in, obviously frustrated with the Duc. Never saw that from Stoner.   [coffee]

We are comparing apples to cumquats here.
Parroting the "bad PR" rhetoric doesn't make the thing any less poignant. He was beat up mentally. I personally think that this was the point where Stoner decided to retire even though the official announcement didn't come until 1.5 years later. His reason for quitting was mental...not physical...not contractual. It was mental. He gave up on the series. He gave up on the series when he was still in a position to win races and win championships. Mentally, he wasn't in the game.
Rossi on the other hand, even with 2 shit seasons under his belt wasn't thinking about retirement but was trying to figure out ways to get back onto a bike he could compete with. He was down but most certainly not out.
Stoner was on top of his game and just said make the beast with two backs it...I quit. If that isn't a lack of mental fortitude then I don't know what is.

Anyway, I stick by my opinion. Rossi has something that Stoner doesn't. Hell, Nicky has something Stoner doesn't. That poor kid has been ass stomped by the Ducati but keeps signing back up knowing he doesn't really stand another chance at a consistent podium. But he keeps soldiering on.
Spies does as well. Dude got throat punched over and over again by arguably the best bike in the paddock and said make the beast with two backs it...I think I will give a worse bike a shot. Now his mental fortitude may be a bit retarded but he is sticking with it and remaining optimistic that things will get better.
Stoner threw in the towel and said nope...not gonna get better so I am going to take my ball back to Autralia and everyone else is big fat doody heads.


I agree about Marquez, zoom. I think he will be up there because he was riding a MotoGP bike before he was even on one. His style is what he will need to compete. But I think his maturity is still lacking. He will push when he needs to just settle for the podium and fight another day. This will be his biggest opponent this year...not the other riders.

If I had to money to retire from a job I no longer enjoy, I would do it in a heartbeat. And unlike Nicky and Val, he is married with a young child, which probably didn't help that he needed to be away from them for long periods of time.

If you want to bring up mental fortitude between Val and Stoner, you only need to go to Laguna. Stoner lost the championship that year in that race. That was one year.

TripJ made the best point about Rossi's mental fortitude. He flat out gave up in quite a few races in those 2 years. You could tell that he was done with the whole thing half way through his first year. Stoner complained (a lot), but he always rode the shit out of the bike.

A better comparison will be if Stoner rides the wildcard races. I know that Stoner fans will start making excuses now just in case he's not in good form, but with both Stoner and Val on good machinery, you will be able to make the case for whose best RIGHT NOW. Cause unless you have a time machine you can't compare them when they're at them prime.

well....I'll argue the wildcard race point...those races are late in the year, at which point...Honda will probably have their hopes pinned on another title with hopefully Dani, but Marquez wouldn't be an unquestionable possibility...if Stoner did ride at say Philip Island....what is to say that they ( Honda)are going to give him the latest and greatest iteration of machinery and potentially put a championship in jeopardy because of the points game?...and for what?

just something to chew on FWIW....

PR aside, he mishandled the whole thing with his team! he just flat-out disappeared on them to the point that they didn't know if (or when) he was coming back to finish the season or if he was even going to race for them the following year.

Again, I agree with you Zoom. It really depends on when those wildcards take place in the season and where Honda is in the battle for a title. If they are out of it with no chance of winning it, I can see them giving him a recent iteration of the RC213V. Otherwise, if Durpy McDinklewad and/or Marquez are battling for a title, they aren't going to give the guy who walked a way a chance to cause harm to their season long efforts.

Carlos,
Emotions are mental. He no longer enjoys it because of something he has in his head. Throwing in the towel and looking forward to the next season is a vastly different thing than saying make the beast with two backs you, things won't change, I am leaving.
"I quit because my family" is again a mental thing. He's asking himself "What if" too much.

Let's look at someone like Larry Pegram...wife...2 daughters...still goes out to every AMA race and rides his sack off trying to be competitive. Yeah...he's concerned about his family if the worst should happen but it isn't stopping him from pushing the limit.
Besides, being away from family? Name one race where Adriana wasn't there? (besides just before and just after Alessandra was born)

Thank you!  [thumbsup]

I can see them using Stoner as a way to secure the manufacturer title

The good and bad thing about Stoner is that you always knew what he was thinking and bugging him. He made it clear that he did not like the direction MotoGP was going. Most of us actually agree with it. Add to it his family situation and the ability to go race in Australia and guess what you get.

Rossi knows that MotoGP will always be his best paycheck. He's still relatively young as in unwilling to step aside not just because of his competitive spirit, which is now being questioned by the likes of some (me and others included) for the way he acted in many of the races while on the Duc. He, like most MotoGP riders, is also an egomaniac. The fact that he showed that he is human after all drove him into probably not retiring until he breaks the all time win record. You can choose to put him on the pedestal all you want. I for one like the fact that he was knocked off for a while. I prefer a hungry Rossi to the quitter version we all feared he would become.

I think you meant the quitter version Stoner became.  ;D
Rossi is still racing. (Yes yes...he had a shit bike and didn't want to push it and maybe risk his chance at a comeback later on but at least he is still giving it a go)
Stoner isn't.

Don't get me wrong, I really wish Stoner would stick around and we would have more than 2 bike battles for the top step again.
But he quit. He isn't mentally in the game. Instead of trying to stick it out and push for change while still competing, he chooses to throw in the towel because he isn't having fun anymore.

Some of the Personality stuff from the Wikipedia article on Stoner http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casey_Stoner (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casey_Stoner) smack a weak constitution. You are a public figure. Your life is going to be overanalyzed and people are going to say things about you that you don't like. Period. Happens to EVERYONE...public figure or not. But most people don't just up and quit because someone somewhere said something that hurt their widdle feewings.

Status and personality
Stoner has showed signs of feeling underappreciated by the general public. He was angered by consistent suggestions that the bike and tyres had a bigger role in his success than he did,[55] and unhappy at being booed at Donington in both 2007 and 2008.[56]

In August 2008 he was criticised for his team's association with tobacco company Philip Morris.[57]

Stoner has stated that he would prefer to shun the limelight and would prefer to let his riding style do the talking. In a recent interview with Australian Motorcycle News, he was quoted as saying that he would prefer a return to purer form of racing from the 500cc days, stating that "Back in those days, it was just racing – Doohan, Rainey, Schwantz, Gardner, Lawson – not half as much bullshit as now. That was the life." compared to the racing that he participates in.

His comment about things being better in the 500cc days...I have a love/hate relationship with this. He is full of shit and he is spot on at the same time. The racing was more pure. But you also had guys like Mick Doohan who had his legs sewn together so that he could heal faster from his broken leg. I honestly can't see Casey doing something like that. Racing injured and even having surgery on an injury is one thing but being the guinea pig for a radical new form of treatment which may or may not work is beyond Stoner's pall, IMHO.

Now this is some funny stuff right here:
http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-racing-news-moto-gp/biaggi-rossi-has-no-chance/22350.html (http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-racing-news-moto-gp/biaggi-rossi-has-no-chance/22350.html)

You're crazy. He was fatigued (mentally & physically) from being sick and trying to race GP. When he came back he recorded 2 wins and a 2nd out of the final 4 races (2009)....sounds like a guy who had quit.  [roll] He then raced another season for Ducati (2010), finishing 4th overall. He then flat dominated in 2011 for Honda, and had a good chance for the title in 2012 if he wouldn't have injured his ankle.

Who knows exactly why he retired. There's a ton of politics in MotoGP...I think he just got tired of it. He obviously still wants to race.

  I don't necessarily disagree with this bit...


as he probably more than likely leveraged it via Carmelo and Monster I am betting...putting the business side of racing up front in that negotiation....

 

Just to clarify regarding Doohan.

AFAIK, Dr. Costa sewed his bad leg to his good one in a desperate attempt to *save* the leg.

Not what one would consider an elective procedure just to heal quicker.

Biaggi is crazy too!  ;D Rossi has a pretty good chance at the title...and I think his past at Yamaha earned him the ride. Unfortunately it came at Spies' expense.

True. But from the interviews I have read, Doohan was said to have wanted the leg saved so he could get back to racing. He wasn't worried about walking or any of that lame stuff, he just wanted to protect his points lead.  ;)

So instead, you quit and don't try to become a force that can effect change?
I could respect him a lot more if he just said, "You know, make the beast with two backs all you wankers! I wanna sex up my wife and play with my kids."
Instead, he makes vague references about not having fun in MotoGP anymore and walks away.

ya know...it makes me wonder...Spies ( as well as others, but the Ben was the most public and recent that I can think of) said that the paddock in WSBK and all that was a much more inviting and family atmosphere...the rracing is hella good...why didn't Casey consider an approach to the WSBK paddock?....we have seen the trend where gp rider retire from gp and flourish anew in that series...Rossi will undoubtedly end up there...

He's into racing on his own terms, in other words in Australia, where people won't hurt his feelings.

In the end, when you compare Rossi and Stoner riding the "same" machinery you see the results. He robbed us the chance to see them both on good machinery.

Stoner knows he can't make any real changes (that he would consider good). As good as he is, he's still an expendable cog in the machinery. Rossi is the only one who might be able to change anything due to his sponsorship pull, and that is a long shot. Stoner didn't like the corporate atmosphere encroaching on the racing atmosphere from what I read...but that isn't going anywhere.


From a couple quotes, he considers them "tarted up street bikes", and has no desire to race them.

 Zilbert, I get on this forum just to read your rants. [laugh]
I need you as my PR manager in my small business, I couldnt loose

I don't hate Casey the way everyone else does, but that's pretty much what I understood him to be saying.  Either way, it's much better than Lorenzo who, while admittedly fast is hell, is also reported to have said "You know, make the beast with two backs all you wankers.  I just wanna sex us some kids and play with your wife."

My fees are steep. I work for delusion.  ;D


 [clap] [bow_down]

With Rainey v. Schwantz, it was anything but "just racing"...

I think Honda would be nuts to put Casey on a race bike late in the season....it will be after (nearly) a year of his not having competitively ridden or raced a GP motorcycle - he'll be a safety hazard....

Safety hazard.... are you serious?

Unfortunately I have to say this, but anyone on a Ducati is a safety hazard right now.

Drama

I can't wait for the season to start.

Maybe you guys will start talking about something other than ancient history. ;D

you mean like from when you and fastwin used to boardtrack race against Rossi's grandfather?...LOL

fastwin was but a pup.

you always said his bark was worse than his bite!

Don't you have some hip replacement seminar or colostomy bag convention you should be at?
 [cheeky]

What do you think he does between posting 45,000+ times to this board?

Yes, he's going to try to win.  You think he's just going to cruise around in the middle of the pack waving at the spectators?

http://www.motomatters.com/blog/2013/03/04/sofaracer_speaks_of_homer_s_odyssey_dona.html (http://www.motomatters.com/blog/2013/03/04/sofaracer_speaks_of_homer_s_odyssey_dona.html)

interesting piece!

+1

great piece.  does a fantastic job of framing how much we know and how much we.. don't know =)
 

I'm not completely on board with his "Rossi has a one-in-four chance at the title".
Less favorable odds than that I'm afraid.

The situation I think Rossi will be faced with is spending quite a bit of time dicing with Marquez.
That's a hazardous proposition.

TRUE....unless Marquez clears past Rossi and continues to torpedo Jorge and Dani which leaves Rossi with a season to win a championship like Hayden in 2006 where consistanly finishing at or near the top for the points wins him the title.

Even with Marquez in the mix, possibly torpedoing Pedrosa or Lorenzo....

beating Lorenzo on consistency is a big ask.

The way I read that one-in-four stat was "I can think of four riders who have a better than outside chance at the championship. Rossi is one of those riders. Math sucks, so I became a moto journo instead of a clerk at Walmart."

^ yup.

if he's within a second in the latter third of any given race, and the bike's working and blah blah blah, he's going to be fighting for the podium-or-better.  to expect any less of him is to have a very short memory =)

hence my reference to Hayden in '06 when Rossi was the one with the target on his back and him aiming to be consistant and rack up the points...

This.
When that kid is on, he is all the way on.

If Yourghey and Crash 'em Smash 'em McDorfysack are consistent this year, Rossi and Marquez are going to be hard pressed in their battle for 3rd.
As much as I want Rossi to take another title, he isn't going to do it finishing consistently 2nd or 3rd if both Dani and Jorge are consistently finishing 1st and 2nd.
In 2006, Nicky was only battling with one person as consistent as he was. This year, there are 2 that will be for sure with a third that most likely will be and a 4th that could potentially be.

especially in the 2nd half of the season, i think we're going to see some epic battles. 

lorenzo is super strong now, pedro just had his best year ever by a factor of 10, marquez is going to continue to be fast as shit AND he has killer racecraft (moreso than lorenzo i would say), and you can be guaranteed there's going to be nothing old man about rossi this year.  he's got shit to prove in a major way and it's arguable whether or not anyone ever wants to win as badly as he does.

I think I have to disagree a little about Marquez' race'craft'.

He's a racer no doubt...more so than You'reghey or Dani will ever be, but I don't think he's even come close to perfecting his craft. He's young, talented, and already batshit fast. We haven't seen nuthin' yet.

[and I still don't like him ;)]

oh that's not to say i don't think he's going to get a hell of a lot better.  i do.  what i'm saying is we already know he's not another late-2000s era panzy ass GP rider.  that kid can dice.

Right, but so far he's done it on raw talent I think. I'm probably wrong. ;D

I want to see him and some of the big kids go at it. [evil]

as opposed to...?    ;D

racecraft... :P

yeah...I am betting Marqez "racecraft" will be similar to the SuperSic way of racing with Yourghey and and Dani...just like he did in Moto2....chop the nose off and hold on for dear life for a split second and then shoot the throttle

I'm cool with that.

 :D

One thing can definitely be said for Marco...he made the races far more interesting when he was battling for a podium.
I would definitely like to see more riders like that in the mix...obviously with a bit more maturity but Marco was developing maturity but was still a balls out racer.

Marsqueage *I* think has a bit more maturity than Marco did at the same point in his MotoGP career. He also has a more methodical personality but he has also shown that he can disconnect his brain from his balls from time to time.

So you have the seasoned veterans with everything to gun for...Jorge out to prove he can do back to back championships...Crashy McHaggis out to prove he can win a title.
You have the young gun with everything to prove...Marquez showing he deserves his ride fully and can battle with the big boys.
And then you have the veteran and arguably the GOAT out to prove that old age and experience can out gun youth and enthusiasm. Rossi *has* to battle for podiums every race otherwise the doubts that he is still competetive will start to grow...

I think 2013 is shaping up to be a return to the good ol' days when more than 1 person was battling for the lead. Let's hope so at least...for all our sakes.

you paint a great picture for a good drama to unfold....except for 1 reality...the tire and bike technology which has seemingly dictated the terms and style of racing to a mostly parade format as of late....while I would love to see my words be wrong....I fear that it would take something strong to break those boundaries....

Well, it was starting to get a bit more exciting when Sic was still with us, and tearing things up.  Granted, those times were a little different than what we have now, but there's still a chance that the addition of another young (i.e. hungry with a few things still to learn) alien will raise the bar a touch. 

 [thumbsup]

Doubt it. Even with last year's improved racing, past the half way point the race would be over. There were some rare exceptions where someone would reel in the leading rider. Those were the days where the MotoGP subscription was worth it.

You subscribe for moto2/3, not for GP.   ;D

Today on cyclenews.com and SBKplanet.com. Go Valle!!

http://www.cyclenews.com/61/20957/Racing-Article/Valentino-Rossi-Back-To-The-Top.aspx (http://www.cyclenews.com/61/20957/Racing-Article/Valentino-Rossi-Back-To-The-Top.aspx)

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2013/Mar/130324a.htm (http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2013/Mar/130324a.htm)

Twenty bucks says it will be another long hard year for The Ben. Still say he should have listened to me and gone back to WSBK! [laugh]

...and be another Mladin?

He made the right move.

I wonder more what happened to the Hondas. Bautista was off by more than a second and with a Ducati sandwiched between him and the Turd. They either made a change or the others made a ton of improvements.

Some really good riders don't make it in Big Boy GP racing. Because of them, the bike, the team, crew, bad luck, etc. And what's wrong with what Matt did? He found his niche over here in the States with Yosh and did a fantastic job.

By your reasoning you must think Bayliss is a wanker because GP didn't work for him but rumor has it that he did OK in WSBK. ;) Checa and Max seemed to do OK too following that same path. All I'm saying is The Ben possibly made a "risky" move staying in GP on a bike that's not much better than a CRT. On the other hand I also think he could have several more world titles in WSBK had he gone that route. I don't see him ever doing that in GP. Just saying...

I understand that. I just think that Mladin was a cherry picker. He definitely went as far as his talent would allow him because he never made an impression on the world stage at any level, and he had the chance.

I think Ben is better than Mat. He got to GP and if he leaves he might never get another chance. He can go back to SBK when his opportunities in GP play out. That worked for Max, and Checa isn't doing too bad either. Ben is young...plenty of time before he has to head to the farm.

As far as Bayliss goes. He showed everyone just how good he was in his wildcard ride on the Duc. A wanker wouldn't have taken the risk. ;)

i very much agree with nearly everything you just said  ;)


for everyone who wants to kneejerk tell ben to stay in SBK, go have your entire shoulder reconstructed and then try to ride a GP bike in anger 3 months later.  let me know how it goes.
 

Keep in mind...

I wouldn't piss on Mladin if he were on fire...

and Bayliss might be god. ;D

^ this.

And I do understand if The Ben went to WSBK he may or not get the chance to return to GP. Especially given how few rides there are these days. Everyone knows it will be the Yammyhammers and Hondas. Everyone else might as well stand in line at the concession stand for a soda and hot dog. Unless a miracle happens the Ducs will just be grid fillers like the CRT bikes.

I'm a Spies fan (not a leg humper! [laugh]) and I do wish him well this year. He's got lots of talent but never got to show it last year playing second fiddle to Jorge and all the bad luck.

Back to thread topic... I think this could be a very good year for Rossi. You KNOW Yamaha is happy to have him back on board and will treat him 100X better than Spies. And you know damn well he's happy to be there! [thumbsup] [Dolph] [beer] Sometimes dream teams don't work out as planned. That's been proven over and over again in all sports. [popcorn] [bacon] Looking forward to a good year of racing.

it cracks me up that there was ever the slightest doubt about this.

short memories....


:)

I just started watching GP last year.  Why does everyone keep talking about this Rossi guy?  From what I've seen so far, he sucks.  He finishes 6th in pretty much every race.  <confused>

I hear he did pretty well on mini bikes when he was a kid. [laugh] [laugh] [laugh]

;D

While reading the Ben thread, I found myself musing (really) about your 'idea' - Rossi's time at Ducati.  If Rossi had been a rookie in 2011 and had spent his first two years on the Ducati (no wins, a few podiums), the odds are better than 50:50 he wouldn't have gotten a factory ride from Yamaha or Honda.  His career would have been over before it even got started...

I hadn't thought of the Duc as having the potential to demolish a rider's career so effectively.

it's been doing that handily since 2008.

How will he fair?

Quite well me thinks!

Don't recall you posting a guess before the fact.  :D [drink]

It's a long season and I had said top 5. The way he road today might convince me top 3.

I also don't recall me giving a crap!   [laugh]

(I honestly thought he'd do top 10 and secretly hoped for top 3, but never bothered to post any of that...)

Nice compilation of Valentino's evening in Qatar:

Valentino Rossi Race Highlights Qatar 2013 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOoR5uSKq08&feature=youtu.be#)

IN the short term view.. this seems comparable. But being the GOAT means consistency and LONGEVITY. No one has got those 2 covered like rossi. Some are just brief flashes thats burn out quickly. Like a hit record.. one hit wonder. Theyre gone, and no one remembers who they were.

For the record.. i predicated top 5 on September 11, 2012.  He surpassed by wildest dreams. 2nd place.. holy sh1t.. he is the goat!