Ducati Monster Forum

This winter I will not have an electrical outlet where I store the bike, which means I will not be able to use the tender.. Will the set-up in the left (image below) work?
I can carry the external battery home every month or so, charge that with the trickle charger and connect it back to the bike.. or I could pick up a marine battery which holds charge longer..

Any ideas thoughts..

(http://i47.tinypic.com/288tx04.jpg)

The batteries will just drain slower, together.

Pick up one of these:
http://www.gandermountain.com/modperl/product/details.cgi?pdesc=Wagan-Solar-Power-Battery-Charger&i=440373&r=view&aID=507D3&cvsfa=2586&cvsfe=2&cvsfhu=343430333733&s_kwcid=goobasecontent_goobasecontent_filler&cID=GSHOP_440373 (http://www.gandermountain.com/modperl/product/details.cgi?pdesc=Wagan-Solar-Power-Battery-Charger&i=440373&r=view&aID=507D3&cvsfa=2586&cvsfe=2&cvsfhu=343430333733&s_kwcid=goobasecontent_goobasecontent_filler&cID=GSHOP_440373)

If it was me, I would take the battery out and keep it where you have electricity.

+1

+2

I looked at the solar option.. Deltran has a 5W tender ( http://batterytender.com/products/solar/5-watt-solar-panel.html (http://batterytender.com/products/solar/5-watt-solar-panel.html) ), I called them, and they said it needs direct sun light.. I wouldn't get direct sunlight in the garage  [bang]

I wish taking that battery out was easy.. Its a real PITA.. Saw the tech get to it when I was getting the air horn installed.. And I'm actually scared doing it.  :'(

so if I charge the external battery once a month or so, wouldn't that keep the primary battery from dying??

If you are going to bother charging one of the batteries, just charge the main battery.   Just like it was suggested, take the battery out and keep it on a tender at home.   Taking out the battery is not that difficult - it's at least less work than your alternative.

Charging a battery with another battery is not a good idea.   If you charge battery A to 13.5 volts and then connect it to battery B that may, for example, have 10 volts, it will fast charge with no current regulation.  It's better for battery life to keep it at a constant voltage slowly.

Can you mount a small solar panel on the exterior of the garage?
Cabela's and most auto places sell them for keeping infrequently used cars charged.

Can you disconnect the battery easily?  Doing so will decrease the ignition-off current drain.  

Wow, not too many options.   No sunlight, no electricity....

If you still want to pursue the battery to battery idea, connect a power resistor between them to limit the current.

I'd approximate a 5 ohm, 10 watt resistor to limit current to about 1 amp.   Then, it drops as the voltage on the chargee battery increases (voltage difference drops).

Thanks everyone for the comments.. Yeah it kinda sucks.. I checked with the garage and they said I can't have anything hanging outside because it is a 'safety' issue....

Well, to disconnect the battery, I'll need to get to it.. If I can get to it, I could charge at home.. The thing that scared me is when you get the gas tank up to get to the battery, the fuel pump is directly connected to the back of the tank which has a bunch of connectors.. When the tech had pulled it out to install the horn and put it back together, the bike did not start and showed a fuel error code. He had to clean the connector and put it back and reset the code before it would start.. Should that happen, I would need to get it towed in the end....

Anyone know if there is a master fuse or something similar that I could disconnect easily so the positive is disconnected?



Thanks for that tip. I'll look further into it.

Ahhh, which bike? ???

I understand the pulling the battery is a problem - add in a swollen tank like I have and it gets even worse. The problem with battery to battery charging is once the voltages become equal charging stops so there will be a lot of unused energy in your backup battery. What you need is a Lithium Ion battery that runs normally to 18 volts or so then a DC to DC converter. Something like this :
http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?KeyWords=VWRAS2-D24-D15-SIP&WT.z_cid=sp_102_buynow&cur=USD (http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?KeyWords=VWRAS2-D24-D15-SIP&WT.z_cid=sp_102_buynow&cur=USD)

Then you can just occasionally swap out the Lithium battery

Another option is to get one of these
http://www.cycleworld.com/2012/03/30/cw-evaluation-shorai-lithium-iron-extreme-rate-lfx-battery/ (http://www.cycleworld.com/2012/03/30/cw-evaluation-shorai-lithium-iron-extreme-rate-lfx-battery/)

you didn't mention how much you are willing to spend on a solution. A simple off the shelf solution would be to go with your deep discharge marine battery pick up an AC inverter (The kind used to run a notebook computer off your cigarette lighter) then plug a regular batter tender into the AC inverter connected to the deep discharge battery

Good idea!   I feel like "why didn't I think of that?"!

2011 M 696

Once the stock one dies, thats in order. Thanks for the link :)

Considering that in the event the battery goes dead, and I have to tow the bike to the dealer to swap out for a new one, which would run to about $250+. A decent amount to spend on this is would probably be half of that. so around $125...


Did think of that, but wasn't sure how much energy I would be loosing converting from 12V to 110V and then back down to 12V. Which also means that 12v-110v inverter is always working because there is load on the other end.

lift tank and use the stick to hold in place, use 10mm socket or #3 phillips screw driver to loosen Negative side first then positive side . ..  pull out battery . . . just did it on a customer's bike ..  not hard

or is a 696 from what brand?

just asking . . . don't see why so much hassle in taking the battery out . .  can you enlighten us with some images to see why is it so hard to take that battery out?

This entire conversation is stupid.  [bang] You aren't even mechanically inclined enough to change the battery? Take the battery out and charge it at home.

But at least there is a "buffer of impedance" between the batteries and the charging current is regulated, making it a safer solution.

agree  [clap]  [clap]  [clap]  [thumbsup]

Because I cannot find a stick to hold the tank  [cheeky]

Here is the process defined in the owners manual.. Cant get the images, but you'll get the point...
"Removal of the battery
Page:1

Important
For battery removal, ALWAYS contact a Ducati Dealer
or authorised Service Centre.
Remove the seat (page 63).
Unscrew the screws (1) and (2) securing the front tank cover
(3) but do not remove the cover.
Unscrew the screws (4) and (5) and recover the nylon
washers (7).

Page 2:

Slide off the right-hand tank cover (6), releasing the tabs (A)
in the corresponding slots (B) in the rear cover.
Repeat the above operations to remove the left-hand tank A
cover.
Remove the front tank cover (3) and recover the bushes (C)
and the spacers (D).


Up until here is not too complicated..

Page 3:

Unscrew the two retaining screws (9) and release the cover
(8).
Withdraw the breather hose (10) from the cover (8).

Page 4:

Withdraw the hose (10) upwards, leaving it attached to the
tank breather and drain hose unions.

Page 5:

Working on the right-hand side of the motorcycle, disconnect
the wiring connector (11) of the fuel level sensor from the
main wiring harness, unscrew the screw (12) securing the
side of the tank to the frame and recover the washer (13).

Page 6:

Unscrew the screw (14) and recover the washer (15).
Release the fuel hoses (E) from the clips (F).

Page 7:

Release the lambda sensor cable (G) from the tab (H) on the
tank flange cover.
Warning
Before removing the flange cover (16), make sure the
tank is empty and position a rag to collect any spilt fuel.
Hold the fuel tank in a raised position and remove the flange
cover (16) by unscrewing the nuts (17).

Page 8:

Disconnect the quick-release fittings (18) from the flange.
Remove the elastic retaining strap (19), remove the caps
from the terminals, unscrew the screws (22) on terminal
clamps (20) and (21), always starting with the negative
terminal, then remove the battery from its seating.


That my friend is the process.. which involves a lot of make a beast with two backsing around with fuel lines, sensors, and god knows what else once I get my hands dirty..

Its easier to change oil on it than the battery  [bang]

Ducati manuals tend to make more difficult than it actually is . . .

Just go into the job relaxed and in less than 10 mins you will have the old AGM battery in your hands and in winter you will be ordering a new Li battery .. ..

Believe me . . .

These things are pretty efficient and the trickle charger pulls very little current from 115 VAC. But the bottom line is you said you would pull the deep cycle every month and recharge it so it really doesn't matter. The advantage over DC to DC is that the deep cycle battery can get pretty low and still produce 115 VAC through the inverter

It takes me at most 10 minutes to get to my battery on my 1100. It's not rocket science or Italian Black Magic. Just do it. You might learn something.

this a test. if u can take the battery out of the bike. u can do anything in the world.

Get a LiFePO battery and be done with this whole tender trouble?

 . . .  ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???

After considering all thats been said.. decided to go solar..
(http://i48.tinypic.com/2zyah5s.jpg)
(http://i48.tinypic.com/rt16qf.jpg)

Its been charging well, and has been there for a couple of days now. Garage management hasn't seen it (or at least hasn't said anything) Hoping that the 2 days becomes 2 months, and 2 months 4, and its going to be summer again :)

is that a south facing window?

Na. Its a North facing one. Not the best, but thats all I got  :(

It probably gets about and hour of direct mid day sunlight.. But I did notice that the status shows as charging (stable orange light) even when there is bright day light..

show me the math you did before you got that panel. i dont believe that you are benefiting from it.

Math or not - it probably does qualify for a "better than nothing solution" although categorizing north facing as "not the best" is an understatement, more accurately "the worst"

good luck - if it keeps the battery alive during the winter it was an easy fix. I think I would worry more about it being stolen than the parking structure owners complaining

Wattage specs on that panel?

It is a pretty safe garage with CCTVs and a guy 24x7 watching the CCTVs.. But again, you never know.. Fingers crossed.

Its a Deltran 5W panel (http://batterytender.com/5-watt-solar-panel.html (http://batterytender.com/5-watt-solar-panel.html))