The situation I am about to describe is proving to be on its way to a big problem because the noise is getting louder and drivability is going down.
-When the engine is warmed up after say 3 minutes stationary or 1.5 min riding there is a loud noise coming from the left side of the case that resembles the sound of loud valves (Valves are fully adjusted. Checked and rechecked)
-This noise is accompanied by an whine that can be heard on the right side of the engine. This whine is mid-pitched and most prominent at 3000 rpms.
-oil level is good and was just replaced (10w30 FS)
-belts are in good shape. tightened them not too long ago but dont have any fancy way to gauge tesion. I use the 5mm and 6mm hex key test method described on the tutorial video for belt replacement.
-Engine has 25800 miles on her.
-At highway speeds of 75 or more there is an ear piercing metal-on-metal ting or ping that I can hear over road noise, termi slipons, wind, and helmet.
-Power at high speed or high rpms is noticably decreased
-power (ability to accelerate) from a stop or at low speeds is noticably decreased.
I rely on this horse to get from home to school and work and am deathly affraid of a mid-corner or highway detonation of the engine. My fear is that it is an internal bearing or gear that may cost quite a bit to replace.
I am the third owner and as far as I know the case has never been opened.
Anyone have experience with these noises? As best as I can explain them anyway. If I get a chance to take a video of it with decent sound that emphasizes the noises then I will post it.
I appreciate any responces as usual. [bow_down]
Have you removed the left side engine cover?
It wouldn't be the first time some big important nut came loose (and the gears it should hold in place)
As usual, I'm no expert, but the left side/then right side noise could maybe mean crank main bearing?
Hopefully I'm wrong, but I think it's safe to suggest that you have this taken care of.
agreed. remove the left side cover (must drain oil first to do this), visually inspect everything for wear or missing parts, then start grabbing all the parts and jiggling/moving them to see if stuff seems abnormal. and yes, get on this asap, continuing to ride will only increase the damage more than likely increasing the cost of repairs dramatically. also when you drain the oil watch for metalflake in the oil. heavy flakes, or the standard concept of the oil looking like car paint as it drains
I hope it isnt the main crank bearings. That would require me to drop the engine and split the half cases.
Today I stop driving it and put her up on the lift. The noise is getting worse and Im getting more nervous.
Hopefully tomorrow i will have time to take the left cover off at least.
Just in case: Does anyone have a 01 m900 engine they are parting out?
I checked ducatimcparts.com and the bill can easily stack up.
Ebay had a surprisingly large selection of engine parts.
loose alternator nut is common and easy fix , hope its only that
Year model?
1st thing to do is take off the tiny cover and look at the bearing. If the balls are evenly oriented around the bearing, it's ok. If they're all gathered together on the bottom, the bearing failed.
Also, no need to drain oil to take of left cover. Put a bungee on the front brake lever and lean the bike to the right against a wall or workbench, etc. (make sure it's stable) and then all the oil runs away from where you're working. ;D
Militar3rd - 2001 monster 900.
I changed the oil maybe 300 miles ago so ill try to save it my using your suggestion Chris.
The left cover used liquid gasket correct? Or is there a paper gasket I gotta buy? (Don't have my book on me at the moment :P)
In a few hours I will be home and starting on it. I'll make sure to take pics if I have doubts or find any extreme carnage [puke].
Something to note: despite w/e is going on behind the covers the bike still starts fine, idles, and operates normal (minus the power loss and noise)
u can buy a paper gasket for it, but i just use some universal "grey max" gasket goo as do all the mechanics local to me... if using a gasket goo it is important to use it sparingly! excess goo can pile up inside the case and break off, then u dont know where it will logde itself, possibly a crutial oil gallery.
Who ever called the loose alternator nut gets the prize. Opened up the case and the nut spun with one finger. Here's the damage:
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7127/8167347201_840075bd0a.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/88050434@N07/8167347201/)
IMG_2702 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/88050434@N07/8167347201/#) by yumaaz1987 (http://www.flickr.com/people/88050434@N07/), on Flickr
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8060/8167376794_387333c758.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/88050434@N07/8167376794/)
IMG_2699 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/88050434@N07/8167376794/#) by yumaaz1987 (http://www.flickr.com/people/88050434@N07/), on Flickr
The edge of the alternator was rubbing out the inside of the case.
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7266/8167346363_87d8037b3e.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/88050434@N07/8167346363/)
IMG_2697 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/88050434@N07/8167346363/#) by yumaaz1987 (http://www.flickr.com/people/88050434@N07/), on Flickr
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8345/8167377756_d70d663fcd.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/88050434@N07/8167377756/)
IMG_2695 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/88050434@N07/8167377756/#) by yumaaz1987 (http://www.flickr.com/people/88050434@N07/), on Flickr
This is the stator which made contact on the mounting bolts with the cone shape on the inside of the alternator. The mounting bolts for the alternator made contact with the copper wires on the stator.
Should I replace the stator?
Im leaning towards yes.
Quote from: DesmoTillDeath on November 08, 2012, 10:53:50 AM
Who ever called the loose alternator nut gets the prize.
Thanks - shipping will be expensive - give it to charity ;D
Quote from: DesmoTillDeath on November 08, 2012, 10:53:50 AM
.....
Should I replace the stator?
Im leaning towards yes.
Lean harder [thumbsup]
I would definitely replace the stator.
you can also check the manual to see if there are specs for the stator to test it. because while you're waiting for the part you might be able to put it back together (nut tightened properly of course), and continue riding reliably
If there is continuity between the phases and none to the metal core, I would try running it.
Quote from: chris on November 08, 2012, 05:55:36 PM
If there is continuity between the phases and none to the metal core, I would try running it.
i agree, oil does not conduct electricity, so as long as the coils/phases are not open cuircut or shorting directly against each other it should be fine as it is. being a static item its unlikely to fatigue and break at one of your new weak points, but discretion advised there, if you have near broken a wire it might be best to replace it.
There's a 'liquid' heat shrink that's out on the market. I've used it with decent results. You could try using that on the windings.
Otherwise, if you've got an old oven you could try to pick up some stator varnish - Dolph make some decent resins, but most require an oven to cure. VonRoll is another good company I've used with good success, but it's more commercial.
I would try re running the stator as-is, and if the voltage is good/it charges, I'd then try to coat the windings with some sort of insulation depending on how much you ride the bike...
I managed to burglar a used stator off ebay for $100 [thumbsup]
The issue I have with the damage to the wires is that because the cross sectional area of the wire in those locations has been decreased significantly and thus increased its resistance. The results in a larger voltage drop in those areas. IE less voltage for the things that matter (spark, ECU, lights...etc.). All of this is why I decided to change the stator.
Part should be here this week. I'll post any problems with install.
Otherwise thanks all for the help and advice! ride safe [Dolph]
Good move on getting a new part. The EE in me wants to know how you quantified the decrease in output? Without actual testing, I believe this is more of a "sleep at night" type of situation. Peace of mind is worth the effort though.
chris, I was thinking of the super basic concepts of circuit analysis. As cross sectional area goes down, resistance goes up (for the same material). And then V=IR for series circuits. So as resistance goes up so does the voltage drop. Thus my initial assumption of less output.
So I got the new/used stator which came off of an '01 750. This shouldn't matter because they are the same part. Put it in last night and started her up only to find that it doesn't run right. [bang]
This morning I drove to campus and despite the fact that it runs quieter;
-idles high (1300-1500)
-idle oscillates a little
-When moving at slow speed up to maybe 30 mph it bucks as if it is cutting out (scary when cornering)
When I took the cover off the first time and found the loose nut I took the flywheel off the crankshaft in order to check everything out.
Is there a specific was that it needs to go back on? My Haynes manual said to line up the punched tick mark on the flywheel with the keyway on the shaft.
The problem is that there are two keyways on the end of the shaft, One is short and the other extends to the beginning of the threads for the nut.
I lined it up with the longer keyway.
Also my book calls for 190 Nm for the alternator nut.......this is really high. I put it at 80 ftlb. with copious amounts of blue locktite. Any thoughts?
Did I reassemble the generator/alternator wrong?
Could the poor running actually be caused by something else which was masked before by a loose generator/alternator?
TB's still need synching.... ??? (I got quoted $110 at Southern California Motorcycles in Brea for TB synch and TPS adjustment included [thumbsup])
Quote from: DesmoTillDeath on November 14, 2012, 10:13:41 AM
~~~SNIP~~~
Also my book calls for 190 Nm for the alternator nut.......this is really high. I put it at 80 ftlb. with copious amounts of blue locktite. Any thoughts?
~~~SNIP~~~
Yes.
You're very likely to have a repeat incident with the nut that loose.
They spec it that tight for a reason.
Torque it to ~150 ft-lb, with red loctite.
While you've got it open, confirm that the crank/cam gears are timed correctly.
Be careful with the shim washer on the back of the flywheel, it likes to fall into an inappropriate location.
Blast :(
Quote from: Speeddog on November 14, 2012, 10:24:09 AM
Be careful with the shim washer on the back of the flywheel, it likes to fall into an inappropriate location.
[bang] been there, done that
Quote from: DesmoTillDeath on November 14, 2012, 10:13:41 AM
chris, I was thinking of the super basic concepts of circuit analysis. As cross sectional area goes down, resistance goes up (for the same material). And then V=IR for series circuits. So as resistance goes up so does the voltage drop. Thus my initial assumption of less output.
Right, but that's theory... and I've normally found theory is a 1/1000 effect in real environments. If the wires were only barely big enough to handle their job, then it might be a difference. They're probably 100x bigger than they need to be.
Opened up the left cover again last night and found that the timing gear for the valve train had been off by one tooth.
I'm guessing that this was not great enough of an offset to cause interference with the piston (since I ran and all).
Now that the alternator/generator noises are all gone I can hear other whistles and whines that I will see to as they progress.
Alternator nut + red locktite + 140 ftlbs. = DONE
Runs great now. Still feels like a bit of a power loss since january but then again I havnt checked compression, synched the TB's, checked the clutch plates, changed the spark plugs, lapped the valves, port and polish, PC III, hot cams, lightweight flywheel, billet clutch hub, ........a bit ahead of myself at the end there.
Thanks everyone for your insite and experience. Its not only comforting but impressive the community of knowledge and expertise that flows freely in the DMF.