Ducati Monster Forum

Moto Board => Tech => Topic started by: ducatiz on August 30, 2013, 10:44:47 AM

Title: 2000 EFI: 900ss vs M900
Post by: ducatiz on August 30, 2013, 10:44:47 AM
Same engine and EFI on the SS as on the Monster?

What were/are the issues with this generation of EFI?
Title: Re: 2000 EFI: 900ss vs M900
Post by: Speeddog on August 30, 2013, 12:25:42 PM
Quote from: ducatiz on August 30, 2013, 10:44:47 AM
Same engine and EFI on the SS as on the Monster?

What were/are the issues with this generation of EFI?

I've not heard of any issues with the 1.5M.

From Brad's info, the SS use different injectors than the Monsters, so I'd expect the ECU's to not be interchangeable.

Trim is adjusted electronically, like the 5.9M.

I'd expect if there's an issue, Brad's seen it or heard of it.
Title: Re: 2000 EFI: 900ss vs M900
Post by: ducatiz on August 30, 2013, 12:41:17 PM
Quote from: Speeddog on August 30, 2013, 12:25:42 PM
I've not heard of any issues with the 1.5M.

From Brad's info, the SS use different injectors than the Monsters, so I'd expect the ECU's to not be interchangeable.

different as in better??
Title: Re: 2000 EFI: 900ss vs M900
Post by: Speeddog on August 30, 2013, 01:21:30 PM
Quote from: ducatiz on August 30, 2013, 12:41:17 PM
different as in better??

Different color and physical construction, doubt that there's much "better" about either one.
http://www.bikeboy.org/ducati2vthrottleb.html (http://www.bikeboy.org/ducati2vthrottleb.html)

I've had two M900ie with the 1.5M that exhibited erratic idle; whack the throttle and it would hang at 3k or so, or come back down really slow, like the carbie engines will when they're really lean at idle or balance is off a mile.
Very careful mechanical adjust of sync and idle speed could get them OK for *very* short periods of time.
Adjustment of the trim fixed that permanently.
One bike had the DP ECU, not sure if the other did.
But that's really just tuning, not what I'd consider an 'issue'.

Perhaps they have the simple 2-D ignition advance like the carbie ignitions.
I don't recall any 5.9M bikes having the hanging idle.
Title: Re: 2000 EFI: 900ss vs M900
Post by: 2001cromo on August 30, 2013, 06:15:43 PM
Izaak,
Next time you're in town, try mine... It's cold blooded, but once it's fully warmed up, it WORKS.  8)

Speeddog's right about the ECU's-
In terms of the ECU's, the SS and the M's are NOT interchangable. I learned this the hard way. Plugs are the same, but the pin outs are slightly different. Dont' remember what it did/didn't do, but I know it wasn't happy with the wrong ECU.
Title: Re: 2000 EFI: 900ss vs M900
Post by: ducatiz on August 30, 2013, 07:15:22 PM
I think I'm going to drop a 900ssie into my 95 900ss.  Done with carbs.
Title: Re: 2000 EFI: 900ss vs M900
Post by: 2001cromo on August 30, 2013, 07:36:03 PM
Get as much of the IE as you can... (I believe 99 to 01 are the years you're looking for)

motor
TB's
ECU
wiring (best to make your own, but can probably get away with using the stock one for the most part)
controls
guages (although you can use any you want since there's no bozomobilizer)
Don't know if the fuel pump from the IE will plug into the bottom of the carb tank?
Also check where the R/R is placed on both

I did this with Michelle's when we removed the 02 wiring/ECU and put in 01 bits.

lemme know if I can help?
Title: Re: 2000 EFI: 900ss vs M900
Post by: ducatiz on August 30, 2013, 07:42:34 PM
Got a line on a whole bike!... a 00 with 4k miles
Title: Re: 2000 EFI: 900ss vs M900
Post by: 2001cromo on August 31, 2013, 04:34:33 AM
In case you don't have it, here's the manual.

www.no1special.com/mychromo/SS900ie_Usa-00.pdf (http://www.no1special.com/mychromo/SS900ie_Usa-00.pdf)


HTH
Title: Re: 2000 EFI: 900ss vs M900
Post by: koko64 on September 14, 2013, 06:03:20 AM
Quote from: ducatiz on August 30, 2013, 07:42:34 PM
Got a line on a whole bike!... a 00 with 4k miles

You get it? An S model would be good. Extra carbon and Ohlins shock.
Title: Re: 2000 EFI: 900ss vs M900
Post by: ducatiz on September 14, 2013, 02:09:30 PM
Quote from: koko64 on September 14, 2013, 06:03:20 AM
You get it? An S model would be good. Extra carbon and Ohlins shock.

Picking it up monday.  Turns out it is a Japanese market model, imported by a navy guy.  Has a 17 digit vin but bad check digit.  Got all the paperwork.  Runs well.  Not much guilt with tearing it down.

Cost me 2000.  Has 12000 miles and is perfect besides the tank leak.
Title: Re: 2000 EFI: 900ss vs M900
Post by: koko64 on September 14, 2013, 04:00:21 PM
Thats a $6000-$7000 bike down here.
So whats your plan, stock engine or 944 with mbp heads?  ;D
Title: Re: 2000 EFI: 900ss vs M900
Post by: ducatiz on September 14, 2013, 07:22:07 PM
I already have the 944 kit.

Prob just some headwork to clean up the ports if the valves are good.

I really want to work the crank over but then its another ballgame...

The 99+ ss bikes don't win high prices here.   Sellers try but they are just not loved.
Title: Re: 2000 EFI: 900ss vs M900
Post by: Duck-Stew on September 15, 2013, 08:33:53 PM
You may need to modify a frame crossmember to clear the horizontal thottle body...
Title: Re: 2000 EFI: 900ss vs M900
Post by: ducatiz on September 15, 2013, 08:49:53 PM
Quote from: Duck-Stew on September 15, 2013, 08:33:53 PM
You may need to modify a frame crossmember to clear the horizontal thottle body...

Define this "may" word that you are using...
Title: Re: 2000 EFI: 900ss vs M900
Post by: Duck-Stew on September 16, 2013, 02:27:35 AM
There's a dead straight tube running behind the carbs on a monster frame that will interfere with the throttle bodies of an efi motor. I don't know if the carbed SS frame has a similar tube.
Title: Re: 2000 EFI: 900ss vs M900
Post by: koko64 on September 16, 2013, 03:06:03 AM
The SS frame has clearance for short manifold, split FCRs, so hopefully more clearance for efi. Lofgrens done it (efi conversion) so Tiz could check the mps site for the conversion to efi. Cant remember if struts got moved.

It's why I gave up on short manifolds on my '95 M900, Didnt want to cut 'n shut.
Title: Re: 2000 EFI: 900ss vs M900
Post by: ducpainter on September 16, 2013, 03:42:03 AM
Quote from: ducatiz on September 15, 2013, 08:49:53 PM
Define this "may" word that you are using...

may...Pretty sure on Monsters it's definitely in the way.

It may also be in the way on the old SS frame.

Title: Re: 2000 EFI: 900ss vs M900
Post by: Duck-Stew on September 16, 2013, 04:30:56 AM
Quote from: ducpainter on September 16, 2013, 03:42:03 AM
may...Pretty sure on Monsters it's definitely in the way.

It's completely in the way on carbed monsters. I gaurantee it as I've done a carbed to efi conversion.

Quote
It may also be in the way on the old SS frame.

Hey! That's what I said!   ;D
Title: Re: 2000 EFI: 900ss vs M900
Post by: ducatiz on September 16, 2013, 06:42:29 AM
Argh.  I really dont want to mess with the frame...  the old ss frame has enough issues....
Title: Re: 2000 EFI: 900ss vs M900
Post by: ducatiz on September 16, 2013, 11:39:47 AM
Quote from: Duck-Stew on September 16, 2013, 02:27:35 AM
There's a dead straight tube running behind the carbs on a monster frame that will interfere with the throttle bodies of an efi motor. I don't know if the carbed SS frame has a similar tube.

So the issue is the crossmember, not the width...?

I may just take the frame off and do it right.. shore up the yoke and re paint it.. Sigh.
Title: Re: 2000 EFI: 900ss vs M900
Post by: Speeddog on September 16, 2013, 12:09:51 PM
A bit of perusing EBay shows carbie and ie SS frames having a diagonal crossmember.

Looks to be same location.... but YMMV.
Title: Re: 2000 EFI: 900ss vs M900
Post by: ducatiz on September 16, 2013, 12:14:13 PM
Quote from: Speeddog on September 16, 2013, 12:09:51 PM
A bit of perusing EBay shows carbie and ie SS frames having a diagonal crossmember.

Looks to be same location.... but YMMV.

I'll take a look tonight.  I did the final check on the new SSie and I'll be damned if it didn't fire right up after sitting for 7 months.  Had to put gas in it because they stored it dry at Coleman's because the tank hinge is leaking, but once I put in a fresh battery and a coffee cup's worth of gas, it literally coughed once and fired up, ran very nicely.

Shame to tear this bike down, but I am tired of dealing with the carbs in my SP and I'm not a "collector," I'm an "accumulator" so who GAS about originality.  Plus, I can always buy that SS engine that's been on craigslist for the last 5 years if I want to put it back.. (snark)

Title: Re: 2000 EFI: 900ss vs M900
Post by: brad black on September 16, 2013, 03:53:50 PM
the ss frames are the same back to the cast rear engine mount from memory.  there certainly isn't a cross brace like a monster has.

the only real difference is that on the ie frame there's no brackets welded to the frame just back from the steering head to take the tank hold down.  and ie frames don't crack.
Title: Re: 2000 EFI: 900ss vs M900
Post by: ducatiz on September 16, 2013, 05:58:09 PM
That would be awesome.

So dropping an efi in is a possibility?  Bolt in and swap the wires?
Title: Re: 2000 EFI: 900ss vs M900
Post by: ducatiz on September 18, 2013, 08:38:19 AM
The bike is now home.

(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l309/ducatiz/00_main/20130918_102249_zps6c9e8235.jpg~original)

HFS that was the scariest ride home I've ever had.  The clutch is completely shot and one of the cylinders is missing once it hits about 4000-5000 rpm.

I am pretty sure it is just neglect.  The bike sat for >7 months.

Battery was new but discharged, I had tohave it jumped.

Anyhow, I will be looking at the transplant issues directly now.  I did not see interference issues with the 95 SS frame.  We'll see.

Title: Re: 2000 EFI: 900ss vs M900
Post by: brad black on September 18, 2013, 03:52:11 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if the ie airbox with associated crap fitted straight in, and the pump will swap directly over.  just plug the loom in and away you go.  easy as eh.