Ducati Monster Forum

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-09-12/ducati-to-add-premium-bikes-to-attract-high-end-buyers.html (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-09-12/ducati-to-add-premium-bikes-to-attract-high-end-buyers.html)

SO we know about the 899 Pani
the Scrambler doesn't look like it's going to be sub 10k now
and the super monster certainly will be near Streetfighter prices (anyone else see the end of the SF with this one?)
and now another high end model???


Lets see
1199 R
1199 S
1199
899

Diavel Chromo
Diavel Dark
Diavel Strada

MTS S Touring
MTS S Sport
MTS S PIkes Peak
MTS

HM
HM S
HS

Scrambler

M696
M796
M1100
M1198 (name???)

SF1098
SF848
(both I doubt will be around with the 4-v Monster back)

ooo maybe they M1100 and M796 go away and they bring in the M821 M1198 at the same time?


So what is the mystery model???

Writing has been on the wall for Streetfighter for a while....

and with the end of air cooled Monsters... it's death certificate is signed IMO.

Sub $10K Scrambler was never any kind of reality in my world  [laugh].  Welcome aboard  ;D.

So... I see it like this:

SF dead - replaced by monster Monster
M1100 dead - replaced by monster Monster (1198 but probably called 1200)
M796 dead - replaced (as per your hypothesis) by 821 Monster

Do you see the end of the M696 as well?

His words seemed to say we won't fight for highvolume lowprofit margin markets

Maybe the return of the Sport Classic.

Not sure.  You can see their logic... and I can see the end of M696 as an Italian built machine....   but don't forget that right now Ducati are building the - at this stage a unique model for Asia only - M795 in Thailand (or is it Malaysia?)... So they do have an option to continue the so-called lower end... out of a lower cost facility.

I have a feeling that if any air cooled bikes continue in the range at all..... they'll come out of their Asian facility.

And remember that per Italian law, they can perform the bulk of the work at a cheaper facility, put the decals on in Italy, and still call it Italian-made.

I found a complete transcript and it appears they will still retain entry level products

so maybe the M820 could be the fourth model replacing the M696/796 as the new entry model ?

How do you guys know the new Monster (assumed water cooled?) will be 821 cc? Just curious.

assumption is the mother of all F**k ups....but since they are good about using current mills in new models and the 821cc mill out of the new Hyper model line up would be a decent intermediate choice to run the dream of variations with....why the hell not.

Their product line is missing a fully-faired sport tourer. When they say 4 new "high-end" models coming, I could see them making a pricey, full-faired, fully-optioned sport-tourer to compete with Kawi Concours', BMW K's, Yamaha FJR's, etc. Isn't the Multistrada considered a bit tall for a lot of shorter riders?

I've also read someone's opinion (forget where) that the Hyperstrada will be the replacement for the Multistrada and they will come out with a fully-faired sport-tourer for those that want all the bells and whistles that the Multi currently has.

I doubt the MTS 1200 is going anywhere.

4 years running Pikes Peak champ and a strong selling bike.

the Hyperstrada is the 'little' MTS that was the MTS 620

I would LOVE a new ST, but I think we would see a new SS before ST

I'm betting on a new 1199SF.

4 new high ends :
- 1199SF
- 1198M
- Panigale Black/RS or whatever it's going to be called
- Panigale 899

that would move the SF out of competition for the M1200

You forgot the scrambler...

That's an SC not really a high-end model.

we know for sure:

899 Panigale
Scramber
At least one 4-v Monster

I guess I could see an 821 Monster. Makes sense because I don't forsee them bringing out a completely new gen Monster, with a new frame, and still leaving the old frame in the lineup.

I'm like a politician, flip-flopping.  ;D

2013 pikes peak champ rode an electric bike. No Ducati.

ducati has won their class 4 years running

  Monsterstrada    [roll]

A 500cc quattrovalvole single with turbo coming in at 300 lbs wet

Bring back the ST

Hopefully sans the W-I-D-E flat seat (no classic sport bike, cafe racer or other, has ever had one)

That was the deal breaker on the silver GT1000 I wanted.
I sat on it.

I was so let down.

(and the frame is so wide at that point in  the frame there is little you could do about it if you wanted to  :-\ )

afaik its only assembled in thailand rather than built from scratch

the purpose is to avoid the import tarriff which is huge like 100 or 200%


but yes the door is open there for a lot of things to be made

but as per the word published they want to be a high end brand so forget about anything on the cheap end of things , which is a shame as VW already do some cheap entry level cars VW UP and Audi makes the A1

i think they are really neglecting the entry level sales which in turn equal high end sales

Gotcha. I thought you were talking overall.

probably not as much profit on the 'low end' bikes, however.

My prayers would be answered. Please please please let there be a return of the Sport Classic. Seeing how these bikes are holding or gaining value I cant believe they dont return to this model especially as it does look different than any of the other models and the cafe racer scene which is so trendy and popular right now loves them as well. It's a no brainer.

I still kick myself in the ass for not buying a sport 1000  [bang]
 My local Ducati dealer told me to pass this along to my members. Before you buy a bike wait till November!

thats true

and it all depends on if they have production room available as in if they are already at max production
then no point making low profit bikes but this is where the thai factory could have the capability

again back to my point

either you make a cheaper bike that is an entry level bike which in turn could lead to brand loyalty and equal a higher

end product with higher profit , or you sell nothing  to that customer

aprillia dont make scooters for nothing  , its another market segement  , same as the diavel , a high percentage of diavel
buyers were first time ducati buyers


same reason apple just released a cheaper iphone, although its not that cheap  [laugh] which i think they have really
missed the boat a long time ago because they are greedy pricks

there was an article the other day saying they believed they released that bike way too early

so maybe it could be a possibility

I have my thoughts on this.

1st-a bike by itself does not have a big profit margin. The accessory aftersales on the otherhand are an opportunity for good profit gains in multiple ways. This is where the bread gets buttered for the manufacturer and the dealer. Roll in that carbon fiber package and/or Termi's and whatever else into their loan ( because most low end bikes within this brand are probably financed) and you are talking an additional few dollars onto their monthly payment in comparo to the bigger perceived money spent buying it outright afterward.

2nd- Having a low end offering to bring consumers into your product line as an almost loss leader has been done for years. The Audi A1 is a more recent example for sure. BMW started that trend in the mid 90's for example with the 318ti as a way to bring people who had "some" money into their product line and grow them to further offerings within the brand. Mercedes has done this as well with their offerings line the 190 series in the 80's and continuing to do so with their C class vehicles like the C230, which happens to be a pretty damned good car generally speaking. While these vehicles don't inspire glitz and glamour like their more expensive siblings, what they do is just as important in many ways. They make the ownership into the marque a pleasant enough experience to inspire them to not look elsewhere when making the next step up. They make the owner feel good as someone who owns a status, and not just a machine. Arrogant as that sounds, the consumer that is going to spend spend spend, is more than likely going to do so out of some level of arrogance no matter where or how it is applied. The rub however is the timeframe in which that growth happens. The bike consumer and market move at an entirely different pace than the car market when it comes to this process. If said bike is "financed" they are a slave to that loan period because usually they are financed at a greater $$$ than the actual resale value due to interest and so forth which puts them behind the ball in terms of upgrade. If that term is say, 4 years, in 4 years time riding that same entry level bike, how trapped or disolutioned do you think they feel? In the car world, not so much because the car doesn't have as exciting and different growth from year to year like motorcycles do. Pair that with the fact that motorcycles in general are much more recreational, and you put a greater "need" have to have that whiz bang newness because it is a fun thing. That in turn puts the emphasis on the arrogance factor which accelerates the process of vehicle turnover in the motorcycle industry versus the car industry. There are excellent points in which to pontificate at great lengths on either side of this discussion though. 

Back to the point of this thread, "high-end" models. The SF is dead if they bring out a water-cooled Monster. The SS is out as well without the air-cooled engine. Let's look at the high-end market and see where they can fit:

1) Sportbike - Duh! Covered with 1199 and 899
2) Dual Sport - Multi
3) Cruiser - Diavel
4) Motard - Hyper
5) Standard/Naked - Monster
6) Retro - Predicted Scrambler
7) Sport Tourer - You could make a point that it's covered by the Multi

Unless they completely do something different, they could only add to segments in Sport Touring.

They could potentially do a "real" dual-sport.  The Multi 1200 now resides somewhere between sport-touring and full-dress touring.  Have you seen the Multi 1200S GranTurismo?  It's a nice bike, but it's not a dual-sport by any stretch of the imagination.  The crash bars are for show.  Can you imagine fording water or spending extensive time on dirt roads with that frackin' air inlet in the timing belt cover right behind the front wheel?  <facepalm>  The "multistrada" name now means "many roads" only in the sense that it can go from the Autobahn to a paved Swiss mountain road to a slightly rough paved road in Italy or Spain.  I can't imagine trying to spend any significant time off-pavement on that thing.

The Hyperstrada is kind of a joke.  Yeah, they added a *little* wind protection and threw some bags on it.  A 4.2 gallon tank won't take you very far... at least not out here in the great wide-open West.  I'm sure the mill is wonderful and the geometry looks like a fun-handling machine, it's just that the bike as a whole package seems to be of limited utility.  We'll see what happens with sales figures.

I think I'll bow out of further prognostication.  I said above they "could potentially"... I honestly claim no clue about what the business development types at Ducati are thinking, mostly just providing my perspective on certain parts of their current lineup.

It's time to blindside the competition, and release a model no one saw coming.  Ducati Trials Bike. [evil]

not speculation but a cool thought

a Hypermotard Dirt edition with big front wheel, ground clearance of the Evo S and knobbies

As long as they don't come out with a three wheeled "Duc-cycle" I will continue to support the brand.    8)

every time i see a CanAm, I count the man cards that were turned in.

normally I would agree with you, but I happen to know 1 gentleman who used to race 250's and is/was blindingly fast on any of his previous street bikes...due to a degenerative bone disorder he just can't move his legs and/or sometimes hold a bike up, but he still has every will to want to ride, so he has a Can-Am now.....when he pulls up places to get off, you watch him manually straighten his leg and go through his dismount with his folding cane and all....and yet, he is still fast on the CanAm too....but he is the reason I don't automatically count out people on those....

yeah I have a friend who wants to ride bikes bad, bought a KTM, but due to a degenerative bone disease couldn't hold it up... I've been recommending he get a CanAm as well

Yes please.

It would have to have a helluva skid plate to protect the front cyl.

Like..

this

that this is [drool]

agreed

   :P [bang] [laugh]

yeah, that works.

Didn't MotoGP just change engine rules or something?

2014 Desmosedici RR

I heard they were making a Hypermotard.

 [coffee]

I can't believe he got that swingarm dirty  :o

1198 Monster with Diavel Engine...

http://www.motoroids.com/ducati/spied-ducati-monster-1198-set-eicma-2013-launch/ (http://www.motoroids.com/ducati/spied-ducati-monster-1198-set-eicma-2013-launch/)

M1198 we knew was one of the four
Scrambler is the second
899 the third

Fine.  V-4 ST using the discarded GP engine. :P

Like a Maxi-scooter?

Considering the places I have put buses between our local 4H and the local folk festival, I could seriously find trouble with something like that.  Not to mention the places I have taken a 1978 2-stroke dual sport...

JM

Just to clarify, a quote from the linked article:


So no mention of walking away from the high volume, low margin wee-Monster market ... just that the new models will not be competing in that space.

I want more Sport Classic!  [Dolph]

See this   V

Please please please let it be another Sport Classic, with adjustable forks, metal tank, and tubeless wire wheels!!!

Edit:  and dry clutch!   8)

 [thumbsup]

+11tyB

 [thumbsup]

x2 on the new scrambler.. I believe it was rocking the 796 motor in it! That excites me! Hopefully they lean more towards the vintage side! I love my 66!
(http://i1069.photobucket.com/albums/u474/monsterparts/image_zps6b30cab7.jpg) (http://s1069.photobucket.com/user/monsterparts/media/image_zps6b30cab7.jpg.html)

Anyone else hear anything about New Orleans, Panigale, $65k, 230mph? Can't find a source...
ah. hmm.

http://ducati1199.com/mechanical-technical/15554-ducati-announces-new-1199-a.html (http://ducati1199.com/mechanical-technical/15554-ducati-announces-new-1199-a.html)

so this is some new Sedici more or less....

Sproooooiiiiing  ;D

Meet the Brand New Ducati, Same Loud Scream (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhA0FIWdSQ0#)

Sounds like, from the video above, they are moving away from lower end stuff, not just focusing on higher end.

Guess these are official of the M1100 EVO?
Edit: 2013   :-[

 
Several years ago, they said they wanted to be the Porsche of the motorcycle world.

Now they are owned by VW group, they seem to be doing that.

They've wanted to move away from entry level bikes for years now -- at one point they had the M620, the SS620 and the MTS620 all on the same floor and it spread them very thin.

They wanted to focus on only one entry level and the rest all premium.

I wonder if the 2013 M1100 will be the end of air cooled Monsters.......  If it is not I am gonna be some kinda pissed off that I have to ditch my Evo for a 160hp 2014..............  Wonder how much that's gonna cost me..........

I sereiously could see them offering the 821 and 1198 4v monster as the only two monster next year dropping the three air cooled models

that drops the competition for the air cooled scrambler

Raux,  The flip side could be that the value of the last model of air cooled M1100 goes up quite a bit.  The downside is that I really really could live with 160hp..........

Well... "Porsche of the motorcycle world"... Porsche does have the Boxster, and it comes in a variety of trim levels.  Then there is the Cayman.  Then you step up to the legend, the 911.  On separate paths you have the Panamera and the Cayenne.

For Ducati, that could look like one or two air-cooled Monsters ("entry-level" 600-800cc class + 1100).  These would be the equivalent of the Boxster and Boxster S.  Price them accordingly... in line with other high performance vehicles.  Same way the Boxster and Boxster S are around the pricepoint of the Corvette or M3.

Your Cayman equivalent, in my mind, would be the water-cooled naked performance bikes (not the Diavel).  Whether those are branded "Streetfighter" or brought back under the Monster name, it's all the same IMO.

The 911 series, of course, are the superbikes.  And there are all kinds of options there... from the 899, to the 1199 S Tricolore.  Same way with the 911, everything from base model to GT3.  Ducati's rumored new $65k hyperbike would be the equivalent of the 918.

Your parallel product lines, for Ducati, are the Multi (think Cayenne), the Diavel (which has no Porsche parallel... it's aimed at the power cruiser market), and any heritage models, i.e. Scrambler or SportClassic.

Anyway... this is all kinda pointless babble.  Procrastination in written form... and an excuse to open the Porsche website and browse the current lineup.  ;)

Excellent analysis!  [thumbsup]

wouldn't that be the Panamera?

While I'm not particularly fond of the Diavel, I won't go so far as to insult it by equivocating it with the Panamera.  [cheeky]

I don't really see a parallel between power cruiser and performance saloon car.  The only "similarity" is that they are sort of parallel product lines to the main performance lineup.  For Porsche, there is the hierarchy of Boxster-Cayman-911-918, with the separate lines of Cayenne and Panamera.  For Ducati, the main performance line is Monster-(SF/liquid-cooled monster)-Superbike-Hyperbike, with the separate lines of Multi, heritage, and "other" (which is currently a power cruiser).

The Multi, however, is very much similar to the Cayenne.  Both are high-performance vehicles, with comfortable and capable human and cargo accommodations, with a *little* bit of added ground clearance and styling for some level of offroad pretense, but lacking serious ADV credentials.  Both seem to get very high ownership satisfaction marks from buyers.  They are eerily similar product lines.  I find both of them to be attractive, but neither is quite rugged enough for life on 600 acres in eastern Washington, 8-12" snowfalls, and 5 miles of dusty washboard gravel on the way to work every day.  I'd love to try, but couldn't afford it if life out here caused either to seriously break.

Anyway... back to the 4 new models: I see them fettling with the lineup a little bit, maybe dropping the SF for a new liquid-cooled Monster, maybe tweaking the Multi, reintroducing heritage bike(s), maybe bringing out a replacement for the D16RR, etc.  I do not profess to know what they're going to do, and am not sticking my neck out over any predictions.  As an engineer, I have a vastly different perspective than the marketing/business development types. ;)

You drive trains??

Old as dirt...

but still funny. ;D

 [laugh]

Sorry, that was supposed to be "enginerd" not "engineer"... damnyouautocorrect...

Back in my college days, a fellow engineering student went home to South Carolina for the holidays.

<Gramps>
"You've been going to school for 3 years and you still can't drive a train?"
<Ann>
"Uh, no gramps, not yet."  [roll]

 [laugh]

scrambler mule out on the road...

http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/bikes/ducati-scrambler-spy-photo/ (http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/bikes/ducati-scrambler-spy-photo/)

(http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/2014-ducati-scrambler-spy-photo.jpg)

Rumors on another site elude to a water cooled 145hp 1200 and 1200s Monster for 2014.  Just a rumor though.

the 1200 Monster is a sure thing.

and S version would be an additional model I guess? but don't think that is the 4th model

Panigale R Superleggera

http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/rumors/ducati-1199-panigale-r-superleggera/ (http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/rumors/ducati-1199-panigale-r-superleggera/)

"Similar to the Ducati Desmosedici RR launch, only pre-selected Ducatisti will be given the opportunity to own one of the  Panigale R Superleggera. The chosen few will receive a special access code from their local dealers, which will then allow them to order the Superleggera from Ducati."

Douche move

Interesting, though I wonder where the 40 lbs loss will come from? Carbon Frame? Will they make enough of them of homologate for WSBK?  With talks of Honda bringing out a new V4 RC bike this could be a good.

You're right. For a brand that is well-documented as struggling right now, this doesn't seem like the right direction to go... at least in terms of growing a customer-base. I can understand not wanting to give in to the market by creating high-volume, low-dollar bikes - this preserves their brand image by not doing so... but spending a majority of your resources, time, and energy on creating a bike that 99.99% of potential customers won't be able to own... is just dumb. Congrats on creating your 65K bike that will probably get spanked by a 15K S1000RR.

Where is this well-documented struggling info? And the info that they spent a majority of R&D on the superleggera?

Maybe I'm mistaken, but I thought that new bike sales for Ducati were in decline? I was also under the assumption that this is what sparked the VW purchase, so that VW could provide assets, resources, etc in order to turn sales around? Maybe I've been thinking about it all wrong this whole time.

I think there's another thread about this, but here's a link to the article:

http://ultimatemotorcycling.com/2013-ducati-q1-sales-down-5-2-under-audi-ownership/ (http://ultimatemotorcycling.com/2013-ducati-q1-sales-down-5-2-under-audi-ownership/)

I guess the 5% decline last spring can be considered both a bad thing, because it was a 5% decline, or a good thing when you consider Ducati says that demand declined by 17%.

Also, I would hope they're using a ton of resources to build a bike they're charging $65,000 for. If they're not, then it's even more of a joke to me. Aren't all Panigale's built in their own factory? Just seems silly to me, given the fact that, according to most people, the Panigale still isn't the best all-around superbike on the market - even though it's thousands of dollars more expensive than ALL the others.

Ducati was for sale forever. At one point there were rumors that Mercedes would buy them. Ducati has mostly seen growth for the past few years, with only the wholesale slowdown of the motorcycle market causing any impact.

Simply speaking they are aware that the Monster will always sale well. Their view has always been to reflect a premium brand image.

I get that they always want to be a premium brand image, but even with the Desmosedicci they produced a couple thousand. To only make 100 of a particular bike just doesn't make sense to me. You know they're going to spend and spend promoting the thing at shows, events, etc. so will it be worth it?

I guess if VW is funding it, why not? Maybe that's the mentality.

Have you ever heard of the Supermono? Superlight?

You're talking about this right? http://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/1993-ducati-superlight-1.jpg (http://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/1993-ducati-superlight-1.jpg)

Yeah, I've heard about it, don't know anything about them other than they look like that.

My point is that Ducati has on occasion come out with some limited edition versions of their bikes. The Desmosedici is the latest of such special editions, but it does differ from the others since it is not based on any other production bike. Instead it is based on their MotoGP bike.

I get that, car and bike manufacturers do that all the time. All I'm saying is I don't get what it accomplishes, other than probably being fun as hell for their R&D team.

To make one or two thousand of a model and offer it to the public who can afford it is one level of elitist branding... to make 100 and only offer them to the people you choose... that's a different story in my eyes. I just don't see how that's a good use of their time and I especially don't see how it makes sense to get all of us SO excited about the 4 new models coming out, and then have one of them be "unobtanium."

In trying to see this move with an un-biased eye, I guess the one possible motivation behind this could be to increase desire for the lower-end sportbike models. Maybe they're thinking, "With this new superleggera, we'll make our rich customers happy, AND we'll motivate the rest of customers to finally pull the trigger on that 899 they've been eyeing just because they want to be a part of the brand community."

You answered your own question. Why build a Veyron? Because you can.

Suppose so. I just think it's different with bikes, less room for improvement maybe? Idk.

The part of my question that I didn't answer on my own, was why they would choose to announce four new models, get everyone excited, and then make the 4th model inaccessible.

Regarding the select clientele ... how else would they do it?

At least this way they know they are selling to known Wankeristi Ducatisti which should minimise ... though not eliminate ... the number of bikes appearing on ebay for more than retail (before they have been delivered).

I feel like there has to be another way. I am definitely not this person, but if I was somebody that had enough cheese to afford one, and they didn't give me a call because the Ducati company doesn't know who the hell I am, I think I'd be kind of offended.

I wonder how many people they will have to contact before all 100 are sold?..

My guess is that if you walked into your dealer and put $20k down on this thing in the next couple weeks, your name would find a away onto the invite list.  ;)

I think someone would be stupid to pay $65K for a blinged out 1199, but whatever, it's their money.

Why do you keep limiting production to 100? Reports I have seen suggest at least 500.

With regard to being 'known' ... I am sure you would find a way of convincing your local dealer you are worthy if you really had the means and motivation to purchase one of these.


Edit: 100 allocated to the US market?

Second edit: TJ beat me with the 'known' solution.

Hoping it would be a spiritual successor to the SportClassic line. With a top-of-the-line Mike Hailwood edition that looks like this:

(http://media.motoblog.it/d/duc/ducati-mhr1000s-sportclassic-tuning/sportclassic_mhr_1000s_01.jpg)

They sell out every time they do this. And I would wager if I called down to Ducati Newport Beach and asked to be "pre-selected" it would happen. Not that big a deal if you ask me.

Tires and frame are helium filled.

Did you remember to register with ducati?
Do you have a history with Ducati of buying new bikes?

And... it's not the first time Ducati has done this.  See the Desmosedici.

It's actually part of the brand.  "Our stuff is so cool, we don't sell it to just anybody.  The fact that we will sell something to you means that, by definition you too have some cool... Sorry you aren't quite as cool as Tom Cruise, but who is?"

Ferrari has been doing this for along time.  It is valid and worthwhile marketing technique.

yup....was it the Enzo that they came out with where you had to be an owner of the 2 previous ultimate bad boy Ferraris before you'de get a dealer to even look at you for thinking to put you on the list

And have proper maintenance history to boot.

^^ fixed.

Don't know about you but having the cash that allows one to be a preferred client requires by default, being elitist.  Hence an elitist marketing technique for an elitist car is quite effective.

I still think they should be under 50k but what do I know lol.

I heard that in the past they have also cancelled some customer deliveries when they have learned the car had been advertised for sale before delivery ... hence my comment above.

I admire that ... but it could be complete bollocks   ;D

I read a statement on another forum from Ducati's CEO, and I quote, "We are already working on the new Desmosedici for 2014".

Me thinks that is motogp related.

They better be working on it...

You make a fair point  [thumbsup]

Panigale R superleggera

Welcome to two days ago. 

http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=65165.msg1207185#msg1207185 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=65165.msg1207185#msg1207185)

Regarding the "why": Ducati is owned by VW.  VW also owns Bugatti.  They built the Veyron and sold the first couple hundred cars at a *loss*.  So why build it?  Because they can.  It was an investment in the science and engineering know-how to build a 1000-hp car with AWD that could be driven reliably every day.  Only companies with deep pockets can afford this approach to R&D, but it's far from pointless.

While the engineering marvel itself might sell at a loss, the technology and know-how developed on that program is valuable for future models of lesser cars... cars with a bigger profit margin.  Also, think about it like this: it's an R&D program that you're getting customers to buy the "prototypes" after you've gotten the dat ayou want out of them.  So, regardless of whether the limited-run vehicles are sold at profit or loss, it's a better deal than just funding the R&D internally and not selling the showcase product.

There is also the marketing side... you offset some of the R&D cost, AND create a stronger high-end brand image by producing a lustworthy limited-run vehicle.

As far as whether it's elitism, snobbery, or whatever... that's capitalism.  Part of what drives capitalism is the desire to obtain these high-end unobtainable items.  I see this vehicle, and I want one... so I need the means... so I need to work harder and/or smarter, to move my way up the ranks, to obtain the means.  Then, someday in the future once the means have been obtained, maybe I'll be on Ducati's "list" for whatever uber-limited snob-mobile they release at that time (or I can afford to buy one shortly after a selected owner gets bored with theirs).

Having test ridden a Panigale S this weekend, I can see the attraction.  Guess I should get off the board and back to work so I can get that promotion and payraise...  ;)

 [thumbsup] [thumbsup]  my vote!!!!!!

http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/bikes/ducati-monster-1200-leak/ (http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/bikes/ducati-monster-1200-leak/)

Photos of the Superleggera

http://www.ilducatista.com/2013/10/ducati-1199-panigale-r-superleggera.html (http://www.ilducatista.com/2013/10/ducati-1199-panigale-r-superleggera.html)

So a carbon fiber rear subframe & a mag airbox/front chasis.  40 lbs still sounds like alot of weight to loose if that is the true difference.  Very cool bike, but not as trick as the D16.

Maybe they went from a 5 gallon gas tank to a 1 gallon. That's 32ish lbs dropped right there!  [roll]

Here's a bunch of frustratingly un-revealing videos too:

http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/bikes/ducati-1199-panigale-r-superleggera-teaser-videos/ (http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/bikes/ducati-1199-panigale-r-superleggera-teaser-videos/)

Maybe not quite as trick in some areas but still very slick.  Also very likely not to have all the problems that the D16's had/have too.   [roll]

Gaaaaahhhhh....

Sorry, had a little nerd-gasm there.  ;)

It could be argued this is actually *more* trick than the D16.  The D16 "only" made 200 HP, weighed more, was by all reports harder to ride, and did not have any electronic rider aids or programmable features (at that time their traction control was some kind of industrial secret).  The 1199 Panigale S (not even the Superleggera) has dial-a-horsepower, electronically adjustable suspension, adjustable traction control, and adjustable ABS.  You can set up the 3 modes as you see fit and flip through them with the click of a button, on the fly.

Is it a V4 street-legal MotoGP bike?  Nope.  That, IMO, is about the only thing that gives the D16 an edge in "coolness" and collectability.

Now, all that said... I can appreciate the technological coolness of these extreme machines.  These are two-wheeled exotics, no doubt about it.  But... I still prefer old-skool non-electronic vehicles.  I want to see the throttle map adjusted by changing the curve of the cable roller.  Tuning mixture with a screwdriver.  Brake feel set up mechanically and controlled totally by feel.  These new machines are amazing, but just don't get me as excited as a well-tuned purely mechanical beast.

Apparently, people can put deposits down on the 2014 Monsters...

http://www.ducati.ms/forums/42-monster/294465-put-deposit-down-new-2014-1200-monster-s.html (http://www.ducati.ms/forums/42-monster/294465-put-deposit-down-new-2014-1200-monster-s.html)

Wow, down payment on a bike that he has never seen. Smart  [roll]

Base model has 135hp and S model 145 hp and carbon. I wonder if thats rwhp or at the crank?

Has Ducati or any other manufacturer advertised the lower number?  Or do they add the maximum number with caveats in really small script?

Farking marketeers....

I can't think of any manufacturer that has used WHP numbers in advertising.

I thought/was hoping maybe the dealer was giving the inside info rather than the brochure knfo.
If 135 is at the crank, then a well tuned S4RS would give it a run for its money. Maybe they're detuned for more grunt down low.

Even if it's 135 at the wheel, the new SuperDuke will CRUSH it.













































 [evil]

 too bad there aren't any dealers.

And if the Euro price is anything to go by....  €17,599 ( sourced from here (http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/reviews/ktm-1290-super-duke-r-review/) ) is a lot for a naked. If ducati doesn't fudge up the looks this will be a very interesting comparison. I was curious to see how Ducati's euro pricing translates to USA and it was 1-1 pretty much (13' Hyper SP €14,590 Ducati Berlin and $14,695 at my local Duc dealer.). I did the same for a KTM 1190 RC8 R  €16,295 at KTM Berlin and $16,499 at the closest KTM dealer. The new monster will probably be priced around the 15k mark if i had to guess. The S4R was 13k MSRP brand new in '07 with the SR4S getting 15k. Just some number for thought.....  [coffee]

More pics of the superleggera...
(http://overdrive.in/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/221013-a-duc.jpg)
(http://overdrive.in/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/1-02-1199-Superleggera.jpg)
http://overdrive.in/news/2014-ducati-1199-superleggera-limited-edition-unveiled/ (http://overdrive.in/news/2014-ducati-1199-superleggera-limited-edition-unveiled/)

MEH

It should have SBK spec forks for $65K

Fixed.  [cheeky]

Seems like Ducati is going to release the Monster just like they did the Superleggera, one batch of vague photos at a time...

http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/bikes/ducati-monster-eicma-twitter-teaser/#more-49220 (http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/bikes/ducati-monster-eicma-twitter-teaser/#more-49220)

What I think of this marketing tactic:

(http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/19896495.jpg)

Crank. All manufacturers advertise crank numbers. Ducati used to advertise wheel HP but switched a number of years back.

Well at least it has a nice turn signal cancelling switch...  Like the Multi.  I am willing to bet it has a more detail oriented dashboard like the Multi does as well.

Still a wimpy way to create a buzz.  Bikes when good enough do not need teaser marketing.

I don't know. Buzz is good, and Ducati is great at marketing.

Aprilia and KTM both make some kick-ass street motos...yet neither sells very many because they haven't figured out Marketing 101.

Just roll the pregnant dog out already.









On one wheel!

This one says... " I think my tank is/has swell/ed"

(http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Ducati-Monster-EICMA-teaser-03.jpg)

This one says... " wadd's you mean da factory she's shut down, and I have'a to wait for parts"
(http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Ducati-Monster-EICMA-teaser-05.jpg)

This one is called " still won't turn" or " I saw the ginormous apex and went the other way"
(http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/wp-content/gallery/ducati-monster-1200-teaser-photos/ducati-monster-eicma-teaser-08.jpg)

LMAO at BP...


Aprilia, sure I agree with that....KTM....they know how to market if you know where to look...every ad I have ever seen for every incarnation of Superduke over the years has been exactly to whom they are marketing to....aggression and street with high speed and loud bombardment....their dirtbike lines get good marketing through many forms...Dakar footage, Red Bull events, Erzberg Rodeo, SuperCross and other MotoX events....they market well, they just don't broadband it...

KTM is good at dirt bike marketing, but they suck at street bike marketing. Agreed they aren't as inept as Aprilia, but if people knew more about their bikes, they'd sell every SMT they make and then some. The RC8 would also give the Ducati SBKs a run for their money.

Some of this is poor street bike dealer support though...but to me that's related a bit to marketing. Higher bike demand = more dealerships wanting to sell your bikes.

"I think my tank has swelled" LOL!

I disagree on the RC8.  It appeals to the more cerebral engineer, techie, or other individual who likes modern hard-edges styling... it lacks the sensuous curves and sex appeal of the Ducati SBKs.  RC8 vs 999?  That's a more fair matchup.  RC8 vs 1098?  No contest, the 1098 is the sexier machine.

Wasn't talking about looks, just overall performance. If more people test rode KTM's street bikes, then more would buy them. They're extremely good bikes. A lot of people are unfamiliar with them though. Poor marketing on KTM's part...backed up by a not very good dealer network.

I agree though, most would think the 1098 is sexier. I actually don't like the RC8 in street trim, but love it in race trim (same opinion for the 999). 1098 looks good in both.

New Monster 1198 split off into new thread:

http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=65770.0 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=65770.0)

Back to discussing the other new models....

So now we wait for the Scrambler.