Hi everyone. Bought my monster a year ago and have barely ridden it since due to my issue. It's a 2003 1000sie with 3600 miles on it. Basically the bike won't start after sitting over night. I'll fully charge the battery ~13.5 and it'll fire up like a champ. I put the volt meter on it with the bike on and it'll read 13.5-14.3. I went for a 30 minute ride and shut the bike off and the battery reads 13.0 to 13.4. This rules out the charging system.
This leads me to believe there is a drain somewhere. I know the immobilizer has some power draw but I don't think it should be enough to kill my bike. The previous owner ran the bike with 4 fuses with improper ratings. I've switched them out since.
I've read other topics on this board about the regulator draining power with the bike off. I'm debating to start unplugging fuses and the connector one by one until I can pinpoint a circuit.
Am I on the right track? Are there other tests I should perform? I'm not very good with electrical issues but I'd like to try to sort this out before getting raped at the dealership. (Broke independent student over here...).
Any suggestions would be awesome. Thank you.
To test for a drain you need a multimeter with a milliamp scale. Turn everything off. Remove the negative battery cable. Connect your multimetere, positive to battery, negative to battery, positive to cable. Start on a high scale in case there is a large drain, then turn to the lowest scale possible. Any vehicle spec: 50 milliamps or less. Initially you might see higher, but in a few minutes it should go below 50 milliamps. If not, pull the fuses one at a time. This will tell you which circuit is the problem. Once you have pinpointed the circuit start unplugging components to isolate the drain. Also get the battery load tested. Open cell voltage indicates state of charge, not condition.
How old is the battery?
Quote from: howie on October 11, 2013, 10:17:47 PM
Remove the negative battery cable. Connect your multimetere, positive to battery, negative to battery, positive to cable.
Sorry for not responding sooner. There was a Desmo owners club event at the local Little Italy festival and homework has gotten in the way.
Thanks for the suggestion. Like I said Im a newb to electrical diagnosis and I was a bit confused form your instructions so I posted a picture to make sure I'm doing it correctly. Imagine the clamps from my trickle charger are the cables from the bike. I put the positive plug in the DC 10A spot. Red probe goes on ( + ) battery post with positive cable from bike still connected to battery & ( - ) probe goes to negative battery cable on bike disconnected correct?. I tried getting the battery load tested by some monkeys at two of the local Kragen/Autozone locations and they told me that they dont do load testing.
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a53/downshift_ikon/photo1_zps4ce8a9e4.jpg) (http://s9.photobucket.com/user/downshift_ikon/media/photo1_zps4ce8a9e4.jpg.html)
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a53/downshift_ikon/photo2_zpsacf042b8.jpg) (http://s9.photobucket.com/user/downshift_ikon/media/photo2_zpsacf042b8.jpg.html)
Quote from: SpikeC on October 12, 2013, 12:49:44 PM
How old is the battery?
Battery is about 9 months old. I bought it because I thought the battery was what was causing this issue initially. So you can see how long I've been dealing with this problem : /.
I tried to draw a picture using the keyboard, the realized there is a better way. http://www.mobilesolutions-usa.com/howto/currentdrain.htm (http://www.mobilesolutions-usa.com/howto/currentdrain.htm) This is for a car, but the test is the same.The author uses a tighter spec than me. My spec is an any car spec. His is tighter. After thinking about it I would go with his since the only drain on the battery should be the immobilizer.
Great guide. Will run the tests today and see if there's any funny business going on.
So I followed everything perfectly and I get 0.00 on every setting. This can't be right since the immobilizer should have a drain. When I connect the leads I notice the gauges sweep or jiggle. The jiggling occurred in the past when I remove the key from the bike. Either im doing something wrong or my multimeter is busted...
The bike doesn't have to be on right? Should I try testin the positive cable instead of the ground in the same manner?
Quote from: DavieDarkoR1 on October 15, 2013, 03:19:12 PM
So I followed everything perfectly and I get 0.00 on every setting. This can't be right since the immobilizer should have a drain. When I connect the leads I notice the gauges sweep or jiggle. The jiggling occurred in the past when I remove the key from the bike. Either im doing something wrong or my multimeter is busted...
You probably blew the 10A fuse in your multimeter when you connected it across the battery in amps mode.
Quote from: DavieDarkoR1 on October 16, 2013, 04:13:25 PM
The bike doesn't have to be on right? Should I try testin the positive cable instead of the ground in the same manner?
Bike off. Either cable will work. The reason why I said negative is disconnecting the positive cable with the negative still on is not a safe practice since, if you touch your wrench to ground you will create a big time short.
Quote from: suzyj on October 16, 2013, 07:35:09 PM
You probably blew the 10A fuse in your multimeter when you connected it across the battery in amps mode.
If your highest range is 10 amps and suzyj is correct you have one hellova big drain. If you can find an ammeter with a higher scale, great. If not, here is a crude alternative. Get a circuit breaker rated at less than 10 amps. Use that instead of the ammeter. The circuit breaker will click ooff and on. Now go for the fuses. When the clicking stops you found it. Better yet, start with unplugging the regulator.
Quote from: howie on October 16, 2013, 08:45:56 PM
Bike off. Either cable will work. The reason why I said negative is disconnecting the positive cable with the negative still on is not a safe practice since, if you touch your wrench to ground you will create a big time short.
If your highest range is 10 amps and suzyj is correct you have one hellova big drain. If you can find an ammeter with a higher scale, great. If not, here is a crude alternative. Get a circuit breaker rated at less than 10 amps. Use that instead of the ammeter. The circuit breaker will click ooff and on. Now go for the fuses. When the clicking stops you found it. Better yet, start with unplugging the regulator.
It's not a big drain. He's misusing the meter such that the meter (briefly) creates the big drain.
A healthy battery will supply in excess of 200A into a dead short. This is what you're trying to make it do when you put your meter in amps mode and put the leads across the battery. The fuse blows, and the meter no longer reads current.
Rather than getting a bigger multimeter, just don't connect the meter across a voltage when it's in current mode. Put it in series with a load instead. Much less exciting.
If you don't understand this, I'd suggest perhaps you don't go near your bike with the meter.
Oh, I misread your post suzyj :-[ DavieDarkoR1, if you did put the meter across the battery you now need a fuse. Never ever do that. Ammeters in series.
I have connected the meter in amps mode in the past on accident with the battery off the bike trying to check voltage. I opened the meter up I check the fuse and the fuse didn't look burned whatsoever. If the fuse popped wouldn't I not able to measure resistance or voltage? The fuse didn't look burned or broken but then again it's one of those glass tube fuses. I'm going I replace the fuse anyways and try the test again. If I'm doing the test like the guide then I'm doing it right. I'll even make a video next time to be sure. Thanks for the help again guys.
the fuse is supposed to check the meter in the amps mode
iirc the fuse has nothing to do with volts or resistance only to protect the meter during amps
its possible that you have blown the meter up
so do these tests
check you get an open/closed circuit by joining the meter leads together
check the voltage at the battery
connect the meter in amps mode and between the battery post and cable and then turn the key on not starting the bike
the bike should power up and you should see a current draw , then try turning the headight on should see 5 or so amps
if it doesnt power up or you dont see a current draw then the meter it broken
Alright so I rented a brand new multimeter and redid the test. The highest reading I got was 0.13 and average reading I would get was .11 . Just to make sure is the reading Im getting supposed to be solid or is it supposed to give me the highest number then go down to .1? For example when I take a reading it will read .13 then .11 then .08 then .01 then just sit there.
0.11 of what ? volts, resistance , amps ?
Tell us exactly what you are reading and what you are doing please.
Quote from: howie on October 30, 2013, 07:09:01 PM
Tell us exactly what you are reading and what you are doing please.
Sorry. Followed the directions from the website you suggested for the current draw test. I electrical taped the positive red probe to the disconnected ground cable. Set my multimeter 20m Amp setting. I then proceeded to touch the negative battery post with the neg black probe. The reading comes out to 0.11 amps for a short moment then lowers to 0.8 then to 0.1 where it remains until I remove it. Every so often it will read 0.13 > 0.11 > 0.9 > 0.1. I guess Im just wondering if I'm doing this correctly.
If you've got your meter set to the 20mA setting, the readings you're getting are in milliamps, not amps.
0.13 milliamps is not a lot of current. Your battery is probably 12 amphours, so it'll supply 0.13 milliamps for many months before it goes flat.
so you now have your answer
your battery is stuffed as it wont hold a charge
go buy a new one and ride more often
If you followed the perfectly you are not suffering from a drain. J5 might be correct. I quickly reread the thread. I neglected to suggest what I almost always do! Always fully charge (you did this) and load test the battery (I don't believe you did this) first. In your case an alternate, crude shade tree method would be charge battery, remove negative cable, park bike for the same amount of time it is parked or longer, replace negative cable, try and start bike. Since the battery was disconnected it did not drain. No start? Battery stuffed!
Shows how crude I am 8).
Discharge test: does it hold a full charge overnite (or week)?
Load test: how low does the voltage drop ln starting with the lights on (and fan for cars)? [laugh]
Charging test: does it reach 13V (14V for Li) after being on a charger for a few hours?
Yeah, I know, rough as guts ! ;D
Quote from: koko64 on November 01, 2013, 03:53:33 PM
Shows how crude I am 8).
Discharge test: does it hold a full charge overnite (or week)?
Load test: how low does the voltage drop ln starting with the lights on (and fan for cars)? [laugh]
Charging test: does it reach 13V (14V for Li) after being on a charger for a few hours?
Yeah, I know, rough as guts ! ;D
and you know what
that covers it all pretty easily without overthinking things too much
Swapped battery with the one from my 749. I'm getting the same result. No one answered me wether if I'm supposed to be getting a solid value reading or the reading I'm getting that starts high then rapidly goes to .1
I'll try the load test with the lights on and the negative cable removed.
Quote from: koko64 on November 01, 2013, 03:53:33 PM
Shows how crude I am 8).
Discharge test: does it hold a full charge overnite (or week)?
Load test: how low does the voltage drop ln starting with the lights on (and fan for cars)? [laugh]
Charging test: does it reach 13V (14V for Li) after being on a charger for a few hours?
Yeah, I know, rough as guts ! ;D
It won't hold a full charge for more then a night. Full charge is 13.4 for this battery. Will read 12.8 the next day.
How do I load test it without the bike starting? Pull the plugs and let it flood? Lol
Two methods:
Remove battery from bike.
Fully charge battery.
Take it to a shop with equipment to load test a battery.
Or charge battery.
Disable ignition.
Place volt meter across battery.
Crank for 15 seconds and watch voltage. If it drops below 9.6 volts the battery is toast.
Best method is the first.
Quote from: howie on November 01, 2013, 10:36:06 PM
Two methods:
Remove battery from bike.
Fully charge battery.
Take it to a shop with equipment to load test a battery.
Or charge battery.
Disable ignition.
Place volt meter across battery.
Crank for 15 seconds and watch voltage. If it drops below 9.6 volts the battery is toast.
Best method is the first.
I know my batteries are good because both work flawlessly in my 749. I've had my monsters battery in my 749 for the past two days sitting and it started up fine with 11.7 volts according to the voltmeter on the bike.
I tried to find a place to load test my battery but no go. Cycle gear apparently got rid of theirs to replace it with a multimeter made by yuasa. My starter is wired separately from my kill switch on the 749 so ill do the load test for kicks.
Ended up putting my 749 battery in the monster and bike runs perfect now. I guess the monster is likes the yuasa. Bizarre