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http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2013/Marquez+title+chances+in+australia (http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2013/Marquez+title+chances+in+australia)

Nice sig line g... ;D

The first possibility seems the most likely... ;)

I'm not sure if he can count on Pedrosa for this weekend. The Turd might still be bitter about the punting that he might either win the race or let Lorenzo finish second just to piss off the kid.

I think #93 is going to look a lot like #27, lurid slides disappearing into the distance.

Where is the "Like" button when you need it?

+1

- Marquez wins and Lorenzo finishes third or lower

i don't think this is that far fetched.  georgina will try to clear off, but barring that
 - dani no doubt feels like he needs to finish 2013 the way he did 2012 and
 - while i grant you that it's much less likely these days, valentino really likes PI. 

you never know.

or lorenzo crashes.  that's rare, but you know he's gonna arrive already pissed off. 

Or, Lorenzo in a fit of pique, pushes too hard in order to keep MM at bay and takes them both out.

At this point, with the way Lorenzo is acting... I dont see that as too far of a possibility.  He always says he rides with a good margin or error... but I think he's starting to rethink that margin.  Watching this kid ignore him would make me think "Well, fine, lets play it his way"

LIKE

Lorenzo can't afford another DNF. He needs to win.

If Dani accidentally takes out Marc, will Repsol let Dani go and/or will the booing be too overwhelming for Dani that he is forced to leave Motogp and starts a new career modeling boys clothing?

  ;D

The Turd is signed for another year.

Wasn't it HRC that proved that contracts are not as good as the paper they're written on?

If another Marquez came along Dani would be gone. ;)

and a good lawyer can hold HRC at bay in terms of a well written one...that's how/why they fielded a 3 bike Repsol team in Dovi's situation....

personally...I think it should be a Jorge/Dani/MM finish in that order for PI so that MM can cinch the crown at Motegi with all the Honda brass there....be a good way to shut Puig up....

http://superbikeplanet.com/2013/Oct/131017mgp1.htm (http://superbikeplanet.com/2013/Oct/131017mgp1.htm)

and, eww: http://superbikeplanet.com/2013/Oct/131017wsx.htm (http://superbikeplanet.com/2013/Oct/131017wsx.htm)

JLo indeed fastest, but just a mouse fart ahead of MM.

It's only FP1, but those two have a big gap over the rest.

JLo has been to PI on the big bikes 5 times already, but it's the first time for MM.
No matter that MM crew has Stoner's setup and data, JLo has to be worried.

Interested to see if DP makes any progress, per his normal path of slow in FP1 then getting better.

FP1

Results:

Pos. Num. Rider Bike Time Diff Diff Prev
1 99 Jorge LORENZO Yamaha 1'29.167     
2 93 Marc MARQUEZ Honda 1'29.255 0.088 0.088
3 19 Alvaro BAUTISTA Honda 1'29.831 0.664 0.576
4 26 Dani PEDROSA Honda 1'30.008 0.841 0.177
5 46 Valentino ROSSI Yamaha 1'30.053 0.886 0.045
6 35 Cal CRUTCHLOW Yamaha 1'30.130 0.963 0.077
7 38 Bradley SMITH Yamaha 1'30.361 1.194 0.231
8 69 Nicky HAYDEN Ducati 1'30.666 1.499 0.305
9 14 Randy DE PUNIET ART 1'31.280 2.113 0.614
10 4 Andrea DOVIZIOSO Ducati 1'31.295 2.128 0.015
11 29 Andrea IANNONE Ducati 1'31.295 2.128 0.000
12 41 Aleix ESPARGARO ART 1'31.458 2.291 0.163
13 5 Colin EDWARDS FTR Kawasaki 1'31.557 2.390 0.099
14 7 Hiroshi AOYAMA FTR 1'31.637 2.470 0.080
15 8 Hector BARBERA FTR 1'31.766 2.599 0.129
16 9 Danilo PETRUCCI Ioda-Suter 1'31.803 2.636 0.037
17 71 Claudio CORTI FTR Kawasaki 1'32.300 3.133 0.497
18 68 Yonny HERNANDEZ Ducati 1'32.341 3.174 0.041
19 67 Bryan STARING FTR Honda 1'32.741 3.574 0.400
20 6 Stefan BRADL Honda 1'33.165 3.998 0.424
21 23 Luca SCASSA ART 1'33.234 4.067 0.069
22 52 Lukas PESEK Ioda-Suter 1'33.797 4.630 0.563
23 70 Michael LAVERTY ART 1'33.875 4.708 0.078
NC 50 Damian CUDLIN PBM 1'35.906 6.739 2.031


FP2

Results:

Pos. Num. Rider Bike Time Diff Diff Prev
1 99 Jorge LORENZO Yamaha 1'28.961     
2 19 Alvaro BAUTISTA Honda 1'29.438 0.477 0.477
3 26 Dani PEDROSA Honda 1'29.478 0.517 0.040
4 46 Valentino ROSSI Yamaha 1'29.537 0.576 0.059
5 35 Cal CRUTCHLOW Yamaha 1'29.667 0.706 0.130
6 93 Marc MARQUEZ Honda 1'29.989 1.028 0.322
7 38 Bradley SMITH Yamaha 1'30.165 1.204 0.176
8 14 Randy DE PUNIET ART 1'30.215 1.254 0.050
9 69 Nicky HAYDEN Ducati 1'30.609 1.648 0.394
10 4 Andrea DOVIZIOSO Ducati 1'30.754 1.793 0.145
11 29 Andrea IANNONE Ducati 1'30.792 1.831 0.038
12 5 Colin EDWARDS FTR Kawasaki 1'30.917 1.956 0.125
13 41 Aleix ESPARGARO ART 1'31.091 2.130 0.174
14 68 Yonny HERNANDEZ Ducati 1'31.134 2.173 0.043
15 8 Hector BARBERA FTR 1'31.286 2.325 0.152
16 7 Hiroshi AOYAMA FTR 1'31.434 2.473 0.148
17 71 Claudio CORTI FTR Kawasaki 1'31.451 2.490 0.017
18 9 Danilo PETRUCCI Ioda-Suter 1'31.985 3.024 0.534
19 70 Michael LAVERTY ART 1'32.066 3.105 0.081
20 23 Luca SCASSA ART 1'32.261 3.300 0.195
21 67 Bryan STARING FTR Honda 1'32.290 3.329 0.029
22 52 Lukas PESEK Ioda-Suter 1'32.943 3.982 0.653
23 50 Damian CUDLIN PBM 1'34.969 6.008 2.026
NC 6 Stefan BRADL Honda

Bradl was declared unfit after FP1 and did not go for FP2. It is believed that he will not participate any further this weekend, but he is able to try and go through the torture test again in the morning before FP3. Also, MM Highsided late in the session at Lukey Heights apparently.

MM at Lukey Heights:

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3718/10346682645_cfb13cb655_o.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/79721557@N02/10346682645/)

big deal....i can do that [roll]



 [bow_down]

Intentionally?






 ;D

on his Ural no less !!!

I hope podium for Rossi.

We know history will be made this weekend with MM taking the championship

Mandatory bike swaps for everyone due to Bridgestone rears not lasting: http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2013/race+direction+decision+for+phillip+island+race (http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2013/race+direction+decision+for+phillip+island+race)

Riders can't do more than 14 laps on one rear tyre, and race is shortened to 26 laps.

WTF?

Why don't they just take the riders off the bikes and give them remote controls.  That way no one is at risk.

I don't want to see any one get hurt but this is silly. What happened to managing your tires?  Did Bridgestone forget how to make tires?

What next? No right turns?

Heh. I suspect it's to do with the PI resurfacing. Been destroying tyres in everything from club racing to other things. Dunlop caught with their pants down for Moto2 as well, which is now a shortened race.

 The grip of the new surface is so good its reportedly worth a second off lap times.
 The downside, it eats tyres.

Yeah based on some times popping out I'm keen to get down there. Was hoping to commit to the island classic but depends if I make the LC whole again in time  [coffee]

fp3

Results:

Pos. Num. Rider Bike Time Diff Diff Prev
1 26 Dani PEDROSA Honda 1'29.074     
2 93 Marc MARQUEZ Honda 1'29.122 0.048 0.048
3 46 Valentino ROSSI Yamaha 1'29.192 0.118 0.070
4 19 Alvaro BAUTISTA Honda 1'29.192 0.118 0.000
5 99 Jorge LORENZO Yamaha 1'29.235 0.161 0.043
6 38 Bradley SMITH Yamaha 1'29.652 0.578 0.417
7 69 Nicky HAYDEN Ducati 1'29.691 0.617 0.039
8 35 Cal CRUTCHLOW Yamaha 1'29.731 0.657 0.040
9 5 Colin EDWARDS FTR Kawasaki 1'29.827 0.753 0.096
10 14 Randy DE PUNIET ART 1'29.971 0.897 0.144
11 41 Aleix ESPARGARO ART 1'30.104 1.030 0.133
12 4 Andrea DOVIZIOSO Ducati 1'30.312 1.238 0.208
13 29 Andrea IANNONE Ducati 1'30.524 1.450 0.212
14 8 Hector BARBERA FTR 1'30.701 1.627 0.177
15 9 Danilo PETRUCCI Ioda-Suter 1'30.750 1.676 0.049
16 71 Claudio CORTI FTR Kawasaki 1'30.909 1.835 0.159
17 68 Yonny HERNANDEZ Ducati 1'31.152 2.078 0.243
18 7 Hiroshi AOYAMA FTR 1'31.182 2.108 0.030
19 23 Luca SCASSA ART 1'31.661 2.587 0.479
20 67 Bryan STARING FTR Honda 1'31.858 2.784 0.197
21 52 Lukas PESEK Ioda-Suter 1'32.074 3.000 0.216
22 70 Michael LAVERTY ART 1'32.314 3.240 0.240
23 50 Damian CUDLIN PBM 1'33.324 4.250 1.010


fp4

Results:

Pos. Num. Rider Bike Time Diff Diff Prev
1 26 Dani PEDROSA Honda 1'28.959     
2 99 Jorge LORENZO Yamaha 1'29.012 0.053 0.053
3 93 Marc MARQUEZ Honda 1'29.243 0.284 0.231
4 46 Valentino ROSSI Yamaha 1'29.413 0.454 0.170
5 35 Cal CRUTCHLOW Yamaha 1'29.864 0.905 0.451
6 38 Bradley SMITH Yamaha 1'30.016 1.057 0.152
7 69 Nicky HAYDEN Ducati 1'30.063 1.104 0.047
8 19 Alvaro BAUTISTA Honda 1'30.111 1.152 0.048
9 41 Aleix ESPARGARO ART 1'30.254 1.295 0.143
10 5 Colin EDWARDS FTR Kawasaki 1'30.421 1.462 0.167
11 14 Randy DE PUNIET ART 1'30.520 1.561 0.099
12 29 Andrea IANNONE Ducati 1'30.603 1.644 0.083
13 4 Andrea DOVIZIOSO Ducati 1'30.747 1.788 0.144
14 71 Claudio CORTI FTR Kawasaki 1'30.974 2.015 0.227
15 7 Hiroshi AOYAMA FTR 1'30.991 2.032 0.017
16 68 Yonny HERNANDEZ Ducati 1'31.349 2.390 0.358
17 9 Danilo PETRUCCI Ioda-Suter 1'31.351 2.392 0.002
18 70 Michael LAVERTY ART 1'31.465 2.506 0.114
19 23 Luca SCASSA ART 1'31.612 2.653 0.147
20 8 Hector BARBERA FTR 1'32.089 3.130 0.477
21 67 Bryan STARING FTR Honda 1'32.150 3.191 0.061
22 52 Lukas PESEK Ioda-Suter 1'32.981 4.022 0.831
23 50 Damian CUDLIN PBM 1'34.009 5.050 1.028


Qualy

Q2 Results:

Pos. Num. Rider Bike Time Diff Diff Prev
1 99 Jorge LORENZO Yamaha 1'27.899     
2 93 Marc MARQUEZ Honda 1'28.120 0.221 0.221
3 46 Valentino ROSSI Yamaha 1'28.647 0.748 0.527
4 19 Alvaro BAUTISTA Honda 1'28.713 0.814 0.066
5 26 Dani PEDROSA Honda 1'28.748 0.849 0.035
6 35 Cal CRUTCHLOW Yamaha 1'28.809 0.910 0.061
7 38 Bradley SMITH Yamaha 1'28.941 1.042 0.132
8 69 Nicky HAYDEN Ducati 1'29.295 1.396 0.354
9 4 Andrea DOVIZIOSO Ducati 1'29.660 1.761 0.365
10 29 Andrea IANNONE Ducati 1'29.756 1.857 0.096
11 5 Colin EDWARDS FTR Kawasaki 1'30.264 2.365 0.508
12 14 Randy DE PUNIET ART 1'30.735 2.836 0.471

 

Q1 Results:

Pos. Num. Rider Bike Time Diff Diff Prev
Q2 4 Andrea DOVIZIOSO Ducati 1'29.999     
Q2 29 Andrea IANNONE Ducati 1'30.023 0.024 0.024
13 41 Aleix ESPARGARO ART 1'30.081 0.082 0.058
14 71 Claudio CORTI FTR Kawasaki 1'30.530 0.531 0.449
15 68 Yonny HERNANDEZ Ducati 1'30.641 0.642 0.111
16 7 Hiroshi AOYAMA FTR 1'30.733 0.734 0.092
17 9 Danilo PETRUCCI Ioda-Suter 1'30.894 0.895 0.161
18 70 Michael LAVERTY ART 1'30.979 0.980 0.085
19 8 Hector BARBERA FTR 1'31.061 1.062 0.082
20 23 Luca SCASSA ART 1'31.093 1.094 0.032
21 67 Bryan STARING FTR Honda 1'31.775 1.776 0.682
22 52 Lukas PESEK Ioda-Suter 1'32.474 2.475 0.699
23 50 Damian CUDLIN PBM 1'33.007 3.008 0.533

Looking at the duc standings... it's gotta make duc wonder if they went with the right choice in getting ride of hayden and keeping dovi

Dorna should be shopping for tire suppliers smart enough to test new track surfaces before they commit to a tire allocation.

Maybe they'll see the stupidity of a control tire eventually. :-\

PI 200!

Thats a major loss of face for Bridgestone. Someones gonna get their arse kicked.

 It's amazing they didnt test the new surface, since its the fastest track on the calendar now. The tyre giants have made special tyres for the place for years.  The Island has been hard on tyres over the years in Moto GP and SBK, and on a hot day tyre failure with delamination/chunking has occured. Remember Chillis 996 chunking out the lhs of his rear Michelin in SBK on a hot day? I forget what year that was.

In an interview Crutchlow mentioned "issues and confusion about tyres" for race day.

[laugh]
Thats 6 or 7 tyre changes.
The PI 24 Horas = shipping container of tyres per team!

I like the new format. Maybe they should do bike swaps all year. Would make it more interesting.

...not that it would've definitely changed this situation any. see indy usgp 2005.

bike swaps? bring on the pitstops with quick-change gear!

True, but at least it wouldn't show a complete lack of concern on Bridgestone's, and Dunlops part.

+1

can you imagine if they'd gone for pitstops?

hi teams, please figure out how to perform a pitstop in the next 18 hours.  good luck.

Just saw a interview with Nicky at the island, what a great bloke. I hope he goes well here today

Mate I'm still stunned!
I thought the penalty was more appropriate for his pit exit line/timing than missing the pit message/pit entry timing. He looked and saw JL coming at speed, entered the track and went across the line. Yikes, thats fast there! Could have been RIP right there for the two of them. Maybe the officials added the two things together.

The whole set up was unsafe compared to two short races for half points. Bridgestone make the beast with two backsed up. The fastest track on the calender and they didnt make a tyre for the new surface.
I had enough trouble seeing the pit board at 240kmh, let alone 340kmh! I only raced there once in Supersport.

Honda ninjas have already been authorized..
The fall out has only begun.

http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/197261/1/marc_marquez_explains_phillip_island_black_flag.html (http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/197261/1/marc_marquez_explains_phillip_island_black_flag.html)

I love Colin Edwards

"Gresini's Bryan Staring made the same error as Marquez and was also disqualified, while Colin Edwards tweeted: "Not happy with the [Marc Marquez black flag] decision. First time running this scenario & disqualified. We r not mathematicians... let us race & F off."

What a cluster make the beast with two backs!!

Go Colin [thumbsup]
{He's half Aussie you know).

I would be more pissed off with the team. Your guy is leading the championship! I would have sent him in as soon as possible and not taken any risks. Morons.

The race officials go on about safety, disqualify MM for a technicality, but ignore his exiting pitlane across the racing line hitting a bike coming off the main straight. MM and JLs careers (and lives) could have ended there.
So much for safety. Smacks of a business rather than safety decision.
Dorna will be happy though, TV and attendance figures will go up for the last two races.

Marquez didn't cross the white line.

JLo went wide.

Both clear as day from the helo shot.

That part of the equation was a non issue to me.

I thought MM was generous towards his team ("We make the beast with two backsed up"). A good kid.

They could have deducted a licence point, given a ride through or deducted a position for the lap thing, but they opened up the championship instead.

A rider exiting pit lane shouldnt impead riders at speed. You try and and get out there quick, but you gotta be clear and hug the inside at first.  JL had right of way in my book. He just should have paused, but he's 20 (frontal lobe not fully developed yet). The  difference in speed there is huge. Race direction saw it your way.

The harshest penalty possible. ;)

Yep, and good for business ;)

Which is what it's really all about.

Fwiw, they supposedly brought another "safety" tire that should've been able to go the distance, but the weather precluded using it.

http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2013/Marquez+Phillip+Island+2013+race+review (http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2013/Marquez+Phillip+Island+2013+race+review)

After the race Marquez explained his team as a whole had believed completing lap 11 was permitted.

He stated, "The plan we had was not correct, we though that we could do that lap. We thought we could go into the pit at the end of lap 11. The problem was not with the pit board, that was fine, when I saw ‘Box’ I came in. Now we need to forget about it and just concentrate in Motegi."

Still...they didn't bring any tires that 'worked'.

Race direction also extended pit lane so the outgoing riders had less time to get up to speed, which just increased the speed difference.  It's pretty hard to see what they were trying to accomplish with that move.

that's not the first the first time something like this has happened, nor will it be the last.

michelin has done it (in both f1 and motogp), bridgestone and dunlop both did it this weekend in australia.

production schedules vs weather forecasting vs transportation logistics... i'm almost surprised they "get it right" as often as they do.

one positive takeaway of having a control tire in this situation is that tires won't decide the championship as they (may) have in the past. good or bad, everybody is on the same tires.

Someone in MM's crew is thinking about that snickers commercial right about now...

Still, 18 points and 2 more races.  Tough ask for Georgina. 

Rough decision for me to black flag... a ride through would have been more fitting imo.  Would have dropped him back enough to get him out of the podium but still giving him a chance to claw back points.

But either way, it does make the drama leading up to the next two races a lot more interesting.

Yup. Jorge needs to win the last two with MM finishing off the podium in at least one of them.

What a disaster of a race. Stupid bike swap, and only 19 laps. I think MM's penalty was over the top, and they got lucky with MM and JLo touching and nothing else. That could have been ugly. I get the tire issue, but WTF. I think they should have made them just change the rear tire. THAT would have been interesting!

Funny seeing JLo launch off of the bike in pit lane during the swap though!  [laugh]

IMO, they should have done a mandatory rear tire change, giving them a minimum pit stop time of 30 sec or so.

No huge rush of hopping off the bike, running over mechanics, whatever.

Dunno what they were thinking about moving the pit exit line out, that was dumb.

If all riders coming in, in a two lap window, to prevent racing in the pit exit lane?

I personally don't see that as a positive.

That's just me.

OK, I can see that line of thinking.

But it puts the racing in the exit lane further down the lane, and everyone is going slower onto an already dodgy pit-lane exit.

Bad either way. 

Okay hands up who is shopping for tires on Monday who still has Brigestone on their list  [laugh]

even my 4 year old can count to 10.

That race was...........

(http://boalogistics.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/manure.jpg)

It was interesting race watching the racers hope off their bikes especially JLo.

MM exit from pit and touching JLo, totally MM fault.  He should have stayed outside line.  Obviously when he looked back their was nobody and then boom.  So it's tough stuff but it's still on MM.

Black flag, I mean he broke the rules for sure.  As for the punishment, if that is what was explained before, then tough luck.  Seems harsh but rules are rules.

Felt bad for Pedrosa punishment. That back tyre on air when hit the pit limiter braking was a sight to see.

So glad Rossi made podium.  It was pretty close with Cal and Bautista.  I hope Rossi will fight with the top three guys more instead of Cal and Bautista.

Overall, it was fun to watch.

Looking forward to reading Stoner's autobiography.

Anyone that has a GP subscription watch the "How Marquez took it too far in Australia" video.  You'll see how wrecked his first tire was and exactly why they set a lap limit as to when riders should pit.  Definately missing some chunks.

MM's 1st tire:

(http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=234545&d=1382271295)

Wow looks like Rossi's tyre last year when it had a big chunk.  No wonder the pit rules was set up.

Interesting article...HRC didn't miscount laps in leaving MM out, they were reading one part of the rule differently...and either ignoring or missing a second part that further explained it.

http://www.motomatters.com/analysis/2013/10/20/2013_phillip_island_motogp_sunday_round_.html (http://www.motomatters.com/analysis/2013/10/20/2013_phillip_island_motogp_sunday_round_.html)

Personally, I think Dorna needs to hire someone who has written construction specifications to write their rules! A correctly worded rule doesn't need to be explained.

What I would like to know is whether the rule they were given included the sentence "the penalty for failure to comply will be a black flag," or if that call was made on the fly?

What a cluster.

moto 2 spoiler..











Tough end to the season for Scott Redding also.

I am not trying to defend MM here >
So if MM was penalised for doing one extra lap in the first session
why was Pedrosa not penalised for doing an extra lap in the second as he must of by pitting on lap nine in the first ?

Only 19 laps, so he did 9 and 10.

I think DE outlays the logistics around this controversy pretty well right here...

That was a good write up, it explained heaps and helped make sense of what occured.
Sad how the letter of the law crushes the spirit of racing, and how safety regulations dont equal practical safety measures.

WELL, if you look at it earnestly, and look at the pictures of MM's 1st 11 laps rear tire chunking, it isn't too hard to think of the decision by race direction at the behest of Bridgestone to call a maximum of 10 laps a safety measure...

Marc is good for MotoGP.  The riders should take note of his reaction.

Why was the penalty so harsh?  Race direction was concerned for the fans and the track.  If they didn't penalize Marc, the whining from JLo would have been devastating!  I'm talking EPIC!!!!  Anyone within a quarter mile would be instantly killed from the initial blast.  The new asphalt would be pulverized. 


Along with the rear wheel sensor guard they should add mirrors and blinkers? 

Zoom, from the tyre pkcs, that's obvious, but I was thinking about the pit lane set up  etc, you know, all the added, unnecessary complexity. Some of the safety solutions caused other dangers. Layers of regulation were added rather than an elegant solution befitting the purity of the elite class. Two 9 lap races for half points without all the bullshit for a straight up fight might have been better. Even that could look half assed, but cleaner and safer.

Race direction had to do alot of fancy footwork and paint themselves into a corner because Bridgestone failed to test on the new surface. Bridgestone can pretend they saved the day but only because of their make the beast with two backs up in the first place. They're in the shit now.

At the start of the year I thought MM was just another spoilt little shit, but I was wrong. It looks like his parents raised him right and keep his feet on the ground.
I like the kid. With that cheeky smile, my mamma would pinch his cheeks like nobody's business!

Thinking about it, the Bridgestone techs, upon examining the tyres, could be incredibly precise with their calculations of when the tyres would fail, to within a lap. Therefore then, in light of such critical margins, how much more negligent does Bridgestone appear for failing to test the new surface?

VERY...but it wasn't just the surface...it was also the temps which changed the estimate of 14 laps on Saturday to 10 laps after Sunday morning warm up when they re-examined some of the tires that went out.

True  :), I've both frozen my ass off and been burnt to a crisp at PI.

I've suffered the same at Laguna Seca (not MotoGP, Roberts/Spencer/Lawson era).

I suffered the "hurricane" at Indy

me too :)

If unpredictable track temps aren't confined to PI, then thats less excuse.

The end of the control tyre, or a chance for Dunlop/Michelin/Pirelli to swoop in?

BTW...we keep harping on Bridgestone for the GP tires, but Dunlop apparently had similar issues in Moto2 and 3, and Dunlop seems to be having less issues than Bridgestone from what I can see overall...but they got it wrong too.

Bridgestone?  Tires?

Wasn't it a few years ago when the riders had to manage their tires on their own?  They should have warned the riders and just reduced the number of laps.  Then the riders would have to play it smart and make sure they left themselves enough tire to finish. 

Umm...no. There's a huge difference between the tire just wearing out and the rider managing the reduced grip vs. the tire destroying itself from the inside out with much less predictable results. MM's tire had huge chunks missing from it after only 11 laps.

I like their golf balls.... ;D

You expected more from Dorna...really?

Yep. Teams got a memo, dunno how many A4s it was.

As a sole tyre supplier under contract, and having not tested, Bridgestone failed in their duty of care. It wasnt like they tested and this came out of nowhere. PI has a history with being hard on tyres. Glad they spotted in the end.

Call me naive, if you must, but if they should at least have had the thirty-seconds it would have taken to go over the sheets (or at least to have held up both hands with all fingers spread out when walking around to the pits) with each team, as visited, to make sure it was clear.  

For all the $$$ the greedy muckety-mucks are glomming off this business, someone above the level of janitor should understand/admit that with authority comes responsibility - can't separate the two.

honda, admittedly, was purposefully trying to take advantage of a perceived loophole in the rule as written. if they had asked for clarification, the loophole would've been closed.

they gambled. they lost.

If that's the case,  why did Pedrosa come in early?

(Rule) 3. - "No rider is permitted to make more than 10 laps..."

Seems pretty clear, even for someone who's first language isn't English.  Even though (Rule) 2 could be misconstrued, 3 makes it plainly clear, to me at least.

The Black flag doesn't seem too harsh insofar as tempting a catastrophic tire failure could have proved harmful to one's own and one's competitors' health.

Again, to Pedrosa, he put 11 laps on his second tire

How do you figure?

He came in on lap 9

...at the end of lap 9 in a 19 lap race.

The trigger point is somewhere along pit lane so as soon as he started back down pit lane he was on lap 10.

I'm counting 9 laps first tire...10 laps second tire.

So you're saying he had to ride 10+ laps to finish the race (total of 19 laps)....

Disagree, cause there are no 'partial' laps...Pedrosa completed lap 9 and started lap 10 in the pits during the bike swap...he didn't ride more than 19 laps in the race.  Maybe if he swapped bikes halfway around the track, but that's not what happened.

It's the same logic wrt (Rule) 2 that Emmit comments about in his article...

2. Every rider will be required to enter the pits and change to his second machine with fresh tyres at least once during the race. In normal circumstances this means that the rider must change machine only at the end of lap 9 or lap 10. (My emphasis).

That is perfectly clear. There is no misconstruing its intent. 'At the end of lap 10' is, quite simply, before you cross the line to complete lap 10. If you do not enter the pits, then you start on your 11th lap, your 10th lap having been completed.

Similar to (my beef) about TV announcers breaking baseball innings into 3rds....there's no such thing...   ;D

By my count he completed the same number of laps on his 2nd tire as MM did on his first

...not by mine...

or Dorna's.

Unless you're counting the cool down lap.

I don't mind chancing sticking my foot in my mouth every now and again  [thumbsup]

Nine on his first, ten on his second.  He pulled in on lap 9, changed bikes, which 'ended' lap 9 and started lap 10, and then completed a total of ten laps to finish the 19 lap race (I counted them on my fingers, usually works for me).

The reports say MM went 11 on his first tire --- he rode ten laps, kept on going, and then pitted at the end of his 11th lap - and would have gone 8 on his second, if he had finished the race, no?


This the same debate, whether the millennium was January 1, 2000 or January 1, 2001?  [evil]

Actually, it is very poorly written and isn't clear at all. MM didn't complete more than 10 laps on his first rear tire...he came in at the end of lap #11, but before he completed lap #11, as the pit entrance is prior to the end of the lap. Therefore, he didn't "make more than 10 laps".

Rule 2 is the clarification, which says the rider must pit at the end of lap 9 or lap 10. MM's team apparently missed or ignored this. A well written rule doesn't need a clarifying rule though.

Like I said before, Dorna needs to hire someone with experience writing construction specifications. Race teams are like contractors...always trying to find loopholes in the rules (or specification) to gain an advantage. It's just part of the game.

Poor timing to gamble. MM basically had the championship wrapped even if he didnt win this race, now its going to go down to valencia.

He's still gonna win it.

I think so too, but could have done it next week at honda's home track

All part of the 'show'.

Granted, the rule could have been properly written with one sentence.

But really, the moment after he crossed the line, completing lap 10, he goes further; he's doing more than 10 laps.

And really how will Bridgestone be able to test before hand. 1) to get ahold of a GP bike and 2) have a rider that can do the times close to the top 3.  Or will just someone on a WSBK spec bike be "close enough" to see the problems.

In the end, it was an unnecessary gamble. I would have just pit with Lorenzo. Now he goes to Motegi where the Hondas will come 1 and 2 unless they really make the beast with two backs something up. Now, if he wins and Lorenzo comes in 3rd does that give MM the championship? I understand that for Lorenzo to win it, he has to win both rounds and have MM off the podium in at least one.

That would put Lorenzo out of contention.

Marquez needs to score 8 more points than George.

seriously, yamaha?

http://superbikeplanet.com/2013/Oct/131024penalty.htm (http://superbikeplanet.com/2013/Oct/131024penalty.htm)

Gonna be tough to prove that one, since JLo is on record stating it was 50/50 on cause between him and JLo.

Meanwhile, Stoner was overhead complaining that JLo complains too much!  ;D

Yamaha are hoping further penalties will boost JLs chances. Looks strategic and whatever it takes. They should be happy with the black flag.
Sheesh its getting ugly.

There's a championship on the line.  Not surprising.  The potential upside is WAAAAY more than the downside for appearing douchey.  Besides, it's not like Lorenzo hasn't recently cornered the market on douche-osity.  Yamaha can't make it any worse for him. 

Pretty sure nothing will come off the meeting but frankly speaking it was a douchee move by MM as far the way he entered track after pit.  Yamaha is correct in brining it up but it's too late.

+1. Like I've been sayin', this was way more serious than the pit board technicality. The black flag has those things covered. While JL said he braked earlier than normal which may have led MM to think he could squeeze in front, the onus is still on the rider exiting pit lane to not cause a danger or impead riders on the track.

They wanna use  the rules to their advantage? Then Honda could protest and say too late suckers!

Anyway, someone at Bridgestone has already committed Seppuku.

As further proof of Jorghey's douchebaggery, I introduce exhibit A: the way that he didn't even acknowledge the fact that he killed the bird in qualy.

You really don't like him do you?
 [laugh]

Proof that he is ice cold baby.  Screw the bird. 

I am Johnathan Livingston and I approve this message

 [laugh]

It's not that black & white.

1. The slow zone on pit exit was extended by Dorna, making it impossible for MM to get up to the proper speed for the corner
2. JLo ran wide (which he admitted)
3. MM ran down a little more than he should have.

Racing incident, caused by Dorna's dumbass idea to run the race in the fashion they did. It was a situation that the riders haven't ever really had to deal with.

...except during a wet race, because the procedure is exactly the same (with the exception of being told which laps they must come in).

Mirrors and blinkers would have prevented this incident.   ;)


I know everyone is on Bridgestone for blowing it.  I still feel that whatever tire is available to the rider, it's up to the riders to make that tire last the whole race.  If Bridgestone brought solid plastic tires, the rider needs to take that into account. 

The tires weren't a good match for the track, get over it.  The riders can go out and chunck the crap out of them in the first nine laps and run the risk of not finishing the race or they can control their pace and make it to the end! 


 [laugh]  Priceless!

Good point, I forgot about that.