Greetings DMF'ers!
I've got a 2003 Ducati Monster 620ie Dark with 72 miles on the odometer.
Yes, 72 miles. GF's bike. She bought "pre-Mr.Maim" ;) and it's too tall even with a lowering link installed. Not sure to keep or sell so it's been sitting since new either under a carport with a heavy duty motorcycle cover (first four months of its life) or in my garage (sixten years ago to present). Never seen rain. Never exposed to UV. Never in the cold. Rubber is pristine, paint is fine, it almost got knocked over once NOT DROPPED (slight scratches on L.exhaust sleeve). Other than that, it is just really dusty.
I'm sick of looking at a Ducati just SITTING in my garage. It's a crime. So I'm getting it going and then the GF can decide if she wants to keep it and have some seat scalloping done or sell it once and for all.
About me: I'm an occasional rider. Always had Japenese bikes (Hondas, Kaws, 'Ukis) and currently have a Kawasaki KLR650. I've always done my own work unless I had warranty coverage. I'm a wrench and a gearhead so getting some grease under the nails is not a problem. Plenty of tools and a good lift.
The purpose of this thread will be to post questions related to getting this bike running again after not having been run in... jeez 10 years. I'm going to post questions and pictures as they arise, instead of 100 things all at once.
And now the pictures as it currently stands: (yes, I am bluring out all the crap in my garage :-[)
(http://i.imgur.com/NAgCEsL.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/MDfewmJ.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/M9S8vBm.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/EgL0SSy.jpg)
Timing belts, oil, tires, brake and clutch fluid, re-install mufflers, lube chain, check brake pads, check lights, ride.
Welcome to the board ;D
Also want to note that while I have owned motorcycles for the better part of 20 years, I have never had to deal with one that had not run for an extended period of time, and I have never dealt with a Ducati.
That being said: first order of business: THE FUEL TANK
Took the tank off the other night and of course it will 1/5 filled with green gasoline. Drained and disposed of the gasoline. Now to deal with the tank.
1) Looking at the pictures below, does this rust need to be dealt with? I have had bikes in the past that had rust in the tank but it wasnt an issue if the bike was in use and the tank kept gassed to prevent further rust. Also keeping an eye on the fuel filter for particulate matter.
(http://i.imgur.com/PPAxRPN.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/GkMt73O.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/dvmC0Xy.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/7HlZiKT.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/U676Ee7.jpg?1)
(http://i.imgur.com/8Pwr1wb.jpg?1)
Quote from: Dirty Duc on November 27, 2013, 02:52:10 PM
Timing belts, oil, tires, brake and clutch fluid, re-install mufflers, lube chain, check brake pads, check lights, ride.
Welcome to the board ;D
(writing all that down) Thanks! I'll get to all those items in short order and will have questions about a few of them. Thanks for the "Welcome" !!
I'd not worry too much about the tank interior.
It can be dealt with if she decides to keep it.
I would change that fuel filter while you have it accessible.
NAPA 3032 is an inexpensive substitute for the OEM filter.
Really? That's good to hear. I've been shuddering at the thought of trying to get all that crap out of there prior to some kind of strip and re-coat, but had thought I could "let it go for now" as I have done with other bikes in the past.
1) I'll need to do a cursory clean. I've heard diesel fuel and swish it around to rinse, drain, repeat. Is diesel necessary or can I just use gasoline?
2) Also, should I try to scrub the interior with a plastic bristle brush to get the stuff off that wants to come off?
3) Thanks for the NAPA part number! Hope those fuel lines come off easier than the fuel lines on the bottom exterior of the tank which didn't. Had to cut those, but only 3/4 of an inch.
4) Anything else I need to know about the TANK? (not getting into anything else just yet)
I'd change the filter and call it good unless you want to coat the tank. All the other machinations are fruitless IMO.
The amount of rust in that tank is minimal IMO, and I've seen a 'couple'.
Quote from: ducpainter on November 27, 2013, 04:45:42 PM
I'd change the filter and call it good unless you want to coat the tank. All the other machinations are fruitless IMO.
The amount of rust in that tank is minimal IMO, and I've seen a 'couple'.
Double on what ducpainter said. You want to replace that filter because you don't need the stale fuel in it run through the injectors. Make sure you use gasoline hose that meets SAE 30R10 specifications.
I would recommend getting the hinge brazed while you have the tank off. But I guess that totally depends on if you plan to keep the bike or sell it. If weren't keeping the bike, its probably not worth the hassle to get it brazed and do some POR15 treatment.
I will be following your thread for sure, since this is almost the same thing I did a year ago. Here is one of my threads if it would help. Mine was a carbie with 900 miles, so not all things are the same:
http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=61934.0 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=61934.0)
Just to round off this thread. I've done the following to the bike:
- Removed tank, scrubbed the interior as well as I could reach with various nylon brushes and got 97% of the rust out
- Put tank back, replaced a couple of the fuel lines.
- Added see-through inline fuel filter
- Replaced dead battery with new Yuasa battery
- Drained motor oil. Not surprisingly it was clean.
- Cleaned off drain plug magnet.
- Removed and replaced OEM oil filter
- Replaced oil with Mobil 1 as recommended by motorcycle shop
- Suctioned out master brake cylinders on handlebar and side of bike. Flushed through new brake fluid with the help of a hydraulic bleed pump until all old fluids had been replaced. Bled air from lines, rear caliper, both front calipers.
- Suctioned out master cylinder on handlebar for clutch. Flushed through new hydraulic fluid with a bleeder pump. Bled air from lines.
- Replaced choke lever which had broken
- Removed spark plugs. Spray lubricant into cylinders in the event of frozen rings. Move pistons with tansmission in 4th gear turning rear wheel. Turns without issue. Verify with depth guage that the pistons are moving.
- Replace spark plugs with new NGK plugs
- Pressure check tires
- Insert key, fuel filter primes, guages check, warning lights test!
Will not start. Continued here: http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=67817.0 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=67817.0)
The in line filter, what type? Remember that this EFI motor runs with fuel pressure at around 45 PSI. A new in tank filter will be fine. I would be careful to use EFI rated hose clamps and the correct in tank lines as Howie mentioned.
Quote from: koko64 on June 04, 2014, 06:42:54 AM
The in line filter, what type? Remember that this EFI motor runs with fuel pressure at around 45 PSI. A new in tank filter will be fine. I would be careful to use EFI rated hose clamps and the correct in tank lines as Howie mentioned.
koko64: It's a $3 inline clear filter I got from the local Ride Now, all the guys there are sport bike riders but I feel that your post is well warranted. I will check to make sure that the filter is up to par. 45 PSI? Jeez! I'll double-check to be sure the filter is up to par. I like having an inline filter as a troubleshooting tool to determine if I have fuel flow, I have put one on every motorcycle I have owned since they started making them.
Need to replace the in-tank filter which is OEM. I will run through a tank of gas first because I am sure there is still sediment that will be shaken up with the first few rides.
Good advice! THANKS!
To Do List:
Top off oil (changed oil and filter last week)
Remove LH exhaust and thoroughly clean chain, lubricate with Dupont Chain Lube.
Check for proper chain tension
Reinstall LH exhaust
Reinstall rear tire fender
Wash bike
Fill up with Premium unleaded
Get some mirrors installed
Slap on license plates, check insurance coverage, get GF into a rider's class! ;D
Fill it up with 87. I'm guessing the filter you added is external and after the pump? Get rid of it and replace that fuel hose with SAE 30R9 hose, 30R10 for any in tank hoses. Do chenge te in tank filter before starting.
Quote from: howie on June 04, 2014, 11:38:26 PM
Fill it up with 87. I'm guessing the filter you added is external and after the pump? Get rid of it and replace that fuel hose with SAE 30R9 hose, 30R10 for any in tank hoses. Do chenge te in tank filter before starting.
Why 87?
Listen to Howie (he's an elder statesman around here). ;D
We are worried about that in line carb type filter being spat off and spraying fuel all over you and the hot motor. I run a similar filter, but my carb type fuel pump only runs 3 psi. You need the correct lines, clamps and in tank filter rated for EFI.
We look after our member's safety!
I'll leave the 87 octane explanation to Howie.
I'll chime in on the 87...
the older version Ducati's were low compression engines. High test fuel will do nothing more than carbon up the combustion chamber and empty your wallet quicker.
Quote from: ducpainter on June 05, 2014, 02:47:49 AM
I'll chime in on the 87...
the older version Ducati's were low compression engines. High test fuel will do nothing more than carbon up the combustion chamber and empty your wallet quicker.
WOW, no kidding? I had no idea! That is great advice thanks
ducpainter and
Howie!
Quote from: howie on June 04, 2014, 11:38:26 PM
Fill it up with 87. I'm guessing the filter you added is external and after the pump? Get rid of it and replace that fuel hose with SAE 30R9 hose, 30R10 for any in tank hoses. Do chenge the in tank filter before starting.
Quote from: koko64 on June 05, 2014, 12:01:27 AM
Listen to Howie (he's an elder statesman around here). ;D
We are worried about that in line carb type filter being spat off and spraying fuel all over you and the hot motor. I run a similar filter, but my carb type fuel pump only runs 3 psi. You need the correct lines, clamps and in tank filter rated for EFI.
We look after our member's safety!
I'll leave the 87 octane explanation to Howie.
Okay, that makes sense (fuel pressure). I'll reluctantly remove the inline filter but I have to say that I've run them on every bike I've ever owned, though nothing has been fuel injected so I see the point.
Can anyone refer me to a suitable in-tank fuel filter that is a direct replacement for the Ducati filter? I don't see a part number on it, just a date of 12.03.02 and it reads "DucatiMotor Made in Germany". I'll have to remove the filler cap assembly again. Those little grub screws are a PITA.
Quote from: Mr.Maim on June 05, 2014, 07:56:55 AM
Can anyone refer me to a suitable in-tank fuel filter that is a direct replacement for the Ducati filter? I don't see a part number on it, just a date of 12.03.02 and it reads "DucatiMotor Made in Germany". I'll have to remove the filler cap assembly again. Those little grub screws are a PITA.
Your answer regarding the fuel filter:
Quote from: ducpainter on November 27, 2013, 03:08:32 PM
I'd not worry too much about the tank interior.
It can be dealt with if she decides to keep it.
I would change that fuel filter while you have it accessible.
NAPA 3032 is an inexpensive substitute for the OEM filter.
It seems like the rust is bothering you, so why not get rid off it? Evaporust is a fantastic product, a quart size container will wipe out that rust in ten minutes for under $10 from Harbor Freight or Summit Racing.
Alright, new internal filter and fuel line in hand. This should make you guys happy. NAPA was out of SAE 30R9 compliant fuel-injector hose so I went the the next up which is also fuel-injector hose... "Gates Fuel Injection Hose 5/16 INCH 225 PSI WP BARRICADE GreenShield Technology" printed on the hose. Its still flexible enough to make the bends needed.
QUESTION: will the fuel pump being off prevent the tank from dumping its entire contents when I remove the current fuel line (except the fuel in the line of course) or will the whole thing just piss all over the place? How should I handle, suggestions?
I'm going to work on this tomorrow morning.
(http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll75/Mr_Maim/Public/Ducati_M620/M620_Filterandhose_zpsc9190660.jpg)
Also, I know the audio isn't great but does this sound right? Is sound really gear-y for lack of a better description. Sounds like my Chevelle did after I replaced the camshaft chain with a gear drive. Oil is brand new and I was sure to turn the engine over a bunch before connecting the spark plugs to get lubrication up into the cylinders, and of course all the attempting to start it when it would not run further brought lubrication into the engine I hope. It just sounds like there is a LOT of gear noise. My GF says that she does not recall it sounding like that, but it has been a long time since she's heard it run last. Its the "whirring" sound you can hear upon deceleration.
Short start, throttle and idle sessions the oil in the sight glass goes down then comes back up after the engine is turned off so oil is going somewhere... thoughts?
(http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll75/Mr_Maim/Public/Ducati_M620/th_20140604_Ducati-RUNNING_zpsabd55d57.jpg) (http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll75/Mr_Maim/Public/Ducati_M620/20140604_Ducati-RUNNING_zpsabd55d57.mp4)
Unless that hose is 30R10 compliant, it will not survive being inside the tank.
30R9 is OK for outside the tank.
Did you replace the cambelts?
Audio is indeed dodgy, but I'd be looking at the cambelt tensioner rollers to make sure they're turning freely and smoothly.
And checking belt tension when it's cold.
Quote from: Speeddog on June 06, 2014, 03:03:40 PM
Unless that hose is 30R10 compliant, it will not survive being inside the tank.
30R9 is OK for outside the tank.
Did you replace the cambelts?
Audio is indeed dodgy, but I'd be looking at the cambelt tensioner rollers to make sure they're turning freely and smoothly.
And checking belt tension when it's cold.
The new hose is to replace the hose the I cut to add the in-line filter
outside the tank that others have advised against. The hoses inside the tank for the Napa filter appear to be fine.
I did not replace the cam belts or check the cam belt tensioners. Looks like this is covered in section 4.5 or the technical guide. I don't see anything about checking proper belt tension. Any suggestions?
It also looks like the cam belt change interval is 12,000 miles or 3 years whichever comes first. <sigh...> I should replace them shouldn't I?
As always, thank you Speeddog.
IMO, yes, replace the cambelts.
Relatively cheap compared to the aggravation and repair bill subsequent to a failed belt.
Some folks use microphones and laptops and software, pluck the belts like a guitar string, and set the belt tension that way.
Other folks set it so that an allen wrench can slip through between the belt and fixed pulley, 6mm on vertical, 5mm on horizontal for the older air-cooled bikes, like yours.
Quote from: Speeddog on June 06, 2014, 05:49:31 PM
IMO, yes, replace the cambelts.
Relatively cheap compared to the aggravation and repair bill subsequent to a failed belt.
Some folks use microphones and laptops and software, pluck the belts like a guitar string, and set the belt tension that way.
Other folks set it so that an allen wrench can slip through between the belt and fixed pulley, 6mm on vertical, 5mm on horizontal for the older air-cooled bikes, like yours.
Great thanks for the advice on how to check tension.
Is replacing the timing belts something that can be done by a person with reasonable mechanical skill and a full mechanic's tool set? To replace them, how do I establish TDC between the crank and each of the cam pulleys? I've done timing belts and timing chains on cars...
Hope this helps . .
http://www.ducatisuite.com/beltchange.html (http://www.ducatisuite.com/beltchange.html)
Quote from: Darkmonster620 on June 07, 2014, 12:18:46 PM
Hope this helps . .
http://www.ducatisuite.com/beltchange.html (http://www.ducatisuite.com/beltchange.html)
[bow_down] I bow to your awesomeness! Thank you. My Google-fu is not doingwell today. Looks like I'm going to have ample opportunity to use my Snap-On Digital Techwrench torque wrenches.
Now to order up some belts.
Any suggestions on a source? I want to be sure I'm getting NEW Stock, not New Old Stock. I understand that the new belts are kevlar reinforced, is that correct?
Our sponsors have belts at good prices, both oem and Exactfit belts.
Quote from: Mr.Maim on June 07, 2014, 01:31:31 PM
[bow_down] I bow to your awesomeness! Thank you. My Google-fu is not doingwell today. Looks like I'm going to have ample opportunity to use my Snap-On Digital Techwrench torque wrenches.
Now to order up some belts. Any suggestions on a source? I want to be sure I'm getting NEW Stock, not New Old Stock. I understand that the new belts are kevlar reinforced, is that correct?
do you want a copy of the manual? send me your email via pm to send it
Removed the timing belt covers and checked condition, they look good but will get replaced. Tension is a little more lose than spec on the front-facing piston. All tensioner rollers are rolling fine.
Still the whining sound persists. If the bike is not moving, then I can rule out the transmission, correct?
(http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll75/Mr_Maim/Public/Ducati_M620/th_20140604_Ducati-RUNNING_zpsabd55d57.jpg) (http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll75/Mr_Maim/Public/Ducati_M620/20140604_Ducati-RUNNING_zpsabd55d57.mp4)
Quote from: Mr.Maim on June 08, 2014, 01:24:04 AM
Removed the timing belt covers and checked condition, they look good but will get replaced. Tension is a little more lose than spec on the front-facing piston. All tensioner rollers are rolling fine.
Still the whining sound persists. If the bike is not moving, then I can rule out the transmission, correct?
(http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll75/Mr_Maim/Public/Ducati_M620/th_20140604_Ducati-RUNNING_zpsabd55d57.jpg) (http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll75/Mr_Maim/Public/Ducati_M620/20140604_Ducati-RUNNING_zpsabd55d57.mp4)
mine has had that whne noise since new, all pulleys replaced, and the noise is still there . . . now, I tell people is supercharged . . .
Quote from: Darkmonster620 on June 08, 2014, 07:39:00 AM
mine has had that whne noise since new, all pulleys replaced, and the noise is still there . . . now, I tell people is supercharged . . .
You serious? If so that puts me a bit more at ease.
Quote from: Mr.Maim on June 08, 2014, 10:26:06 PM
You serious? If so that puts me a bit more at ease.
had the noise when new they replaced rhe tebsiomers and idlers still the noise . . . I have since replaced the belts 3 times . . Still there
Do they not have straight cut primary gears? Those whine.
then it would be when running, the whining is just engine on[idle] and while accelerating . . .
Back at it after a long business trip. Got new ExactFit belts from California Cycleworks (great price, fast shipping) that will get installed this weekend if the garage isn't too hot (110-F today!).
Good Luck - I see you had a link to a tutorial, the most important advise I have there is to lock the cam pulleys in place.
My motor had short screws in the cam belt cover (to seal the holes I recon) , I took one to the hardware store and bought longer ones
that jamb the pulleys in place when the belt comes off (just 2 for the cam pulleys).
Quote from: seevtsaab on July 24, 2014, 11:59:47 AM
Good Luck - I see you had a link to a tutorial, the most important advise I have there is to lock the cam pulleys in place.
My motor had short screws in the cam belt cover (to seal the holes I recon) , I took one to the hardware store and bought longer ones
that jamb the pulleys in place when the belt comes off (just 2 for the cam pulleys).
Lock the pulleys so they don't rotate, or the gears?
Outboard single pulleys, you'll see a small screw installed in each cover, possibly aligned with the a TDC mark, I think
both align with pulley markings when Horizontal Cylinder is TDC (not doing you any favors working from a faulty memory).
Obviously you can return the pulleys to the correct position but there's some spring tension at TDC iirc making that somewhat difficult.
It's all pretty simple and easy to get familiar with, good to make some notes.
I marked Vertical pulley location for TDC on the belt housing,
if you ever get hosed up you can always get each cylider to TDC and realign your pulleys.
Quote from: seevtsaab on July 25, 2014, 11:23:00 AM
Outboard single pulleys, you'll see a small screw installed in each cover, possibly aligned with the a TDC mark, I think
both align with pulley markings when Horizontal Cylinder is TDC (not doing you any favors working from a faulty memory).
Obviously you can return the pulleys to the correct position but there's some spring tension at TDC iirc making that somewhat difficult.
It's all pretty simple and easy to get familiar with, good to make some notes.
I marked Vertical pulley location for TDC on the belt housing,
if you ever get hosed up you can always get each cylider to TDC and realign your pulleys.
Okay, when you say "pulleys" you are talking about the cam gears and the crankshaft gear. I understood your use of "pulley" to mean the tensioner pulleys. Got it. I took the covers off a few weeks ago to make sure that this bike had the marks on the gears, it does, but I am going to use a white paint marker to make them more obvious.
Your advice about locking them up so they don't move while replacing the belts... that is EXCELLENT advice! THANK YOU!
Ah sorry about that. Since they have belts going around them "pulleys".
And FWIW the 5mm - 6mm allen wrench thingy for belt tension (under the fixed pulley) is a breeze.
Just clicked over 55K miles yesterday and the little 620 just hums along.
Quote from: Mr.Maim on June 08, 2014, 01:24:04 AM
Removed the timing belt covers and checked condition, they look good but will get replaced. Tension is a little more lose than spec on the front-facing piston. All tensioner rollers are rolling fine.
Still the whining sound persists. If the bike is not moving, then I can rule out the transmission, correct?
(http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll75/Mr_Maim/Public/Ducati_M620/th_20140604_Ducati-RUNNING_zpsabd55d57.jpg) (http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll75/Mr_Maim/Public/Ducati_M620/20140604_Ducati-RUNNING_zpsabd55d57.mp4)
Ahem..I'm one of the least mechanically inclined folks here so with that disclosed; I have to wonder since this is a part I just replaced; isn't a "whining" or "whirring" sound a common symptom with bearings that are on the way out? Those "rollers" are actually 2 stacked 6201 sealed bearings...about $5 each. Idle time is not the friend of a bearing so would it really be a bad idea to replace them? Mine had dried out on an 11,000 mile motor simply from sitting.
Quote from: Buck Naked on July 27, 2014, 08:15:24 AM
Ahem..I'm one of the least mechanically inclined folks here so with that disclosed; I have to wonder since this is a part I just replaced; isn't a "whining" or "whirring" sound a common symptom with bearings that are on the way out? Those "rollers" are actually 2 stacked 6201 sealed bearings...about $5 each. Idle time is not the friend of a bearing so would it really be a bad idea to replace them? Mine had dried out on an 11,000 mile motor simply from sitting.
Where did you buy your bearings?
I just got brand name (Nachi) bearings from eBay. I just started a long tech thread about this that thoroughly annoyed all the old heads here. The consensus is that any 6201RS will do the trick. If you wanna go uber cheap from China a ten pack is $12 shipped or in my case I got the Japanese Nachi bearings for $7 each. I'm sure you could pick em up locally as well they are a common bearing.
Quote from: Buck Naked on July 27, 2014, 03:07:20 PM
I just got brand name (Nachi) bearings from eBay. I just started a long tech thread about this that thoroughly annoyed all the old heads here. The consensus is that any 6201RS will do the trick. If you wanna go uber cheap from China a ten pack is $12 shipped or in my case I got the Japanese Nachi bearings for $7 each. I'm sure you could pick em up locally as well they are a common bearing.
Something like this?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/6201-2NSE-RS-2RS-Nachi-6201RS-12mm-Bore-ID-Sealed-Ball-Bearing-Made-in-Japan-/130377107572?pt=BI_Heavy_Equipment_Parts&hash=item1e5b14c874 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/6201-2NSE-RS-2RS-Nachi-6201RS-12mm-Bore-ID-Sealed-Ball-Bearing-Made-in-Japan-/130377107572?pt=BI_Heavy_Equipment_Parts&hash=item1e5b14c874)
$6.95 with free shipping, from Cali. I'll support California and Japan's economies, not China's.
Quote from: Mr.Maim on July 28, 2014, 01:09:20 PM
Something like this?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/6201-2NSE-RS-2RS-Nachi-6201RS-12mm-Bore-ID-Sealed-Ball-Bearing-Made-in-Japan-/130377107572?pt=BI_Heavy_Equipment_Parts&hash=item1e5b14c874 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/6201-2NSE-RS-2RS-Nachi-6201RS-12mm-Bore-ID-Sealed-Ball-Bearing-Made-in-Japan-/130377107572?pt=BI_Heavy_Equipment_Parts&hash=item1e5b14c874)
$6.95 with free shipping, from Cali. I'll support California and Japan's economies, not China's.
That's exactly what I bought, same seller too. Very prompt shipping. I liked the techy description too.
For other viewers' future reference:
Belt Change procedure (txt and pics) - http://www.ducatisuite.com/beltchange.html (http://www.ducatisuite.com/beltchange.html)
Belt Tension procedure (txt and pics) - http://www.ducatisuite.com/belttension.html (http://www.ducatisuite.com/belttension.html)
Belt Change and Tension procedure (video) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vzPZ84ZRjU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vzPZ84ZRjU)