Hey fellows,
Marry X mas and happy holidays.
after trouble shooting it appears that my selanoid is no allowing current through to the starter so plan on taking it off, cleaning he contacts of the selanoid. Hope that works. Any advice on it would be nice. Looks like after I loosen some of the wires, the selanoid can be pushed down out of the support. Will get a photo up soon for a visual.
For information,
I was having trouble starting the bike since the weather got cooler in Miami. So I thought it was the temp and cooler wires that were not allowing enough juice through to the starter. It would take a couple of pushes of start button and cranks before it would go. But once started and warm it would turn back on easy.
After putting her away for a couple of days because of crazy holiday drivers, i went to start her and she would just click, you could hear the starter selanoid clicking.
and now here I am.
Its a 2002 S4.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10202194970528600&set=a.10201863734287901.1073741826.1019478952&type=1&theater (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10202194970528600&set=a.10201863734287901.1073741826.1019478952&type=1&theater)
Where's Spike? ;D
could be a "low charge battery" . . . try taking the battery to test and charge, if this doesn't help then it could be the solenoid . . . I almost spend the $100+ on one . . .
Quote from: ducpainter on December 25, 2013, 02:13:47 PM
Where's Spike? ;D
[clap]
Charge the battery and have it load tested before going further. Still have the problem? Start trouble shooting. Could it the solenoid? Sure. More likely high resistance in the starter circuit or a bad ground. This link should help you. http://www.autotechnician.org/starter-voltage-drop-test-explained-in-plain-english/ (http://www.autotechnician.org/starter-voltage-drop-test-explained-in-plain-english/) Yes, it for a car, but same system.
By the way, the solenoid is not serviceable, it is a sealed unit. You could attempt to get it apart and back together, but it will no longer be water tight
Maybe also check that the grounds are clean and tight. Did I read somewhere that ducati has at times been known to have weak ground connections?
1 charge battery
2 try to start
if fails
3 connect power directly to solenoid input
if turns - bad news- dashboard replacement
if fails
4 connect power directly to solenoid output
if turns - replace solenoid
if fails - problem with starter
also clean kill-switch, check side stand sensor.
Quote
http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=65383 (http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=65383)
[/s]
disregard this - it is for next gen monsters.
Motorcycle will not turn over. Get 14 V on battery, when turn switch on, read 13 V. At the starter lead +, and the starter solenoid, read 12V. Tried start pushing he bike and did not start.
Before it stopped starting, I have having trouble starting it cold. It would take 3 to 5 attempts. Once warm it would start right up.
I believe the starter motor is fried, so want advice on how to replace it. Read that need drain oil. Why? Also need remove the alternator fan cover. Is it the one pointed in the video?
If fried, why did it fried? From too much current for too long when starting it cold? Why was it not starting right up when cold?
Here is a link on youtube.
Starter motor (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sE_2W2xTu-4#)
Did you ever get your battery tested as suggested in your other thread?
In addition to what he said ^^^
The alternator cover is on the left side of the bike. You have to remove that because, to remove the starter you have to slide the starter gear off, which is behind the alternator cover. There's also, I believe, three bolts behind that cover that hold the starter motor on. This is also why you have to drain the oil.
Yeah, tested the battery and they say is says "REPLACE"
sucks.... Battery is less than year old, been on battery tender and bike started once a week. Voltage on battery is 14 V and when open switch drops to 12-13V
We applied a jumpstart/charger to the starter motor, with battery disconnected, + to the + lead on starter and the neg to the started case; no movement or noise, nothing
the ground of the battery should be good. I thought the ground would go to engine but saw a ground going to the right side of the bike to metal plate that is attached to the fuse box. See pic, its the left of two bolts.
(https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10202383339477706&set=a.10201863734287901.1073741826.1019478952&type=1)
Before you condemn your starter why not replace the battery, clean all the connections...and by clean I mean disassemble them and really clean them, and then do any testing and see if the bike starts?
Quote from: Qomomoko on January 20, 2014, 03:04:10 PM
Yeah, tested the battery and they say is says "REPLACE"
sucks.... Battery is less than year old, been on battery tender and bike started once a week. Voltage on battery is 14 V and when open switch drops to 12-13V
We applied a jumpstart/charger to the starter motor, with battery disconnected, + to the + lead on starter and the neg to the started case; no movement or noise, nothing
the ground of the battery should be good. I thought the ground would go to engine but saw a ground going to the right side of the bike to metal plate that is attached to the fuse box. See pic, its the left of two bolts.
(https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10202383339477706&set=a.10201863734287901.1073741826.1019478952&type=1)
If you did the above correctly that would indicate you need a starter assuming the engine is not seized. This would mean you got a good bite on positive and negative and your jumpstart/charger actually has the power to turn the starter motor, which most cheap home units don't. You said your battery is shot. 14V open cell voltage? Some sort of lithium battery? I'm too lazy to go back to the original thread. Anyway, if you need to replace the battery I strongly suggest you follow ducpainter's addvice. That starter motor is both pricy and pretty damn bulletproof.
Thanks guys,
will use a battery of my R6, which starts right up.
X fingers that is the problem.
If not then will buy battery and try again, Any recommnedations?
The one I had bought was I thought and expensive one to last a while
Shorai Inc Lithium Batt 18Ah 12V Eq,"A"1 LFX18A1-BS12 $150
In case its easy, the ground, is it on the motor? or like I said on a metal plate next to the battery near where the fuses are?
Not sure where on your bike, but there are undoubtedly more grounds than the one on the metal plate.
Do you have a wiring diagram?
The ground cable goes from battery negative down to the upper right rear of the cases, next to the rear motor mount.
Disassemble, clean, and reassemble that connection, as well as all of the positive cable connections; solenoid and starter.
Be careful removing and installing the cable at the starter.
You *do not* want the stud to turn.
[clap]
got a feeling is going to the the ground is not good!!! Will look for it and clean it today
Thanks
My symptom recently: bike won't start, everytime I hit the start button i can hear the click and the clutch/piston (dry clutch) trying to move and start the bike but nothing happen. This was during an all day ride...so throughout the day I literaly had someone "push-to-start" my bike [laugh]
My method to test the solenoid was - disconnect the power cable to the Starter, turn on bike and press the start button...if I hear a click then the solenoid is working okay. which i did hear the clicks
Second to check your ground cable from the battery to the frame/engine case...even you see that it appears fine, check again. I disconnect my OEM ground and test fit a different ground cable I had at hand....wala...bike start right up.
time to make new power cables!!! [drink]
Quote from: Qomomoko on January 21, 2014, 10:40:13 AM
[clap]
got a feeling is going to the the ground is not good!!! Will look for it and clean it today
Thanks
replied to your other post...but yeah check the ground (to the engine case)...mine went bad (but the cable looks perfectly new) (bike only had 5000 miles for a 2001 model)
Here is a video of the simptom:
Ducati 999s starting (solenoid/ground cable) problem (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCNiUaXKC74#)
Quote from: seanster on January 21, 2014, 02:10:26 PM
My symptom recently: bike won't start, everytime I hit the start button i can hear the click and the clutch/piston (dry clutch) trying to move and start the bike but nothing happen. This was during an all day ride...so throughout the day I literaly had someone "push-to-start" my bike [laugh]
My method to test the solenoid was - disconnect the power cable to the Starter, turn on bike and press the start button...if I hear a click then the solenoid is working okay. which i did hear the clicks
Second to check your ground cable from the battery to the frame/engine case...even you see that it appears fine, check again. I disconnect my OEM ground and test fit a different ground cable I had at hand....wala...bike start right up.
time to make new power cables!!! [drink]
A click means the solenoid is moving, but it can still be the problem. If the contacts inside the solenoid have high resistance you can get a click and no power. Proper testing is to take a voltmeter and attach the positive probe to the connection from the battery and negative to the connection from starter to ground. Crank starter. Your meter should read .2V or less. What you are reading is the voltage consumed by the solenoid. The same could have been done for your ground cable. This test is called voltage drop. Google it.
Quote from: howie on January 22, 2014, 12:00:35 AM
A click means the solenoid is moving, but it can still be the problem. If the contacts inside the solenoid have high resistance you can get a click and no power. Proper testing is to take a voltmeter and attach the positive probe to the connection from the battery and negative to the connection from starter to ground. Crank starter. Your meter should read .2V or less. What you are reading is the voltage consumed by the solenoid. The same could have been done for your ground cable. This test is called voltage drop. Google it.
The continuity test is moot if I read 13V at seleoid contact, or at the + lead on the starter right? If not, key off, battery still connected, multimeter in the conituity test which looks like a ground symbol, then touch both multimeter ends and hear a sound, then try it with one multimeter end on the + battery and the other multimeter end on the Starter + connection and if hear sound then got continuity from Battery + to the Starter +... right?
Can same continuity be done for the Battery to ground?
I need to take an electrician course or something similar.
Any one know if an interactive web page for such learing please put the link LOL
You have an interactive electrical course right here, if you will just follow Howie's suggestions. [beer]
I'm going to merge these two threads as they're the same issue...
Quote from: Qomomoko on January 22, 2014, 04:27:33 AM
The continuity test is moot if I read 13V at seleoid contact, or at the + lead on the starter right? If not, key off, battery still connected, multimeter in the conituity test which looks like a ground symbol, then touch both multimeter ends and hear a sound, then try it with one multimeter end on the + battery and the other multimeter end on the Starter + connection and if hear sound then got continuity from Battery + to the Starter +... right?
Can same continuity be done for the Battery to ground?
I need to take an electrician course or something similar.
Any one know if an interactive web page for such learing please put the link LOL
You can go from battery positive to the starter. You will be measuring voltage drop. You would want to see .5 volts or less while cranking or attempting to crank. More than .5 volts you will need to check individual components, connections and wires. Same for the negative side. Voltage drop is measured with the meter in parallel with the component under load. You could take your meter and go from the connector on the starter ground and measure voltage available at the starter. Positive to the connection at the starter, negative to battery ground. Subtract from battery voltage and you have roughly calculated voltage drop, certainly good enough for a no crank situation. The there is the shade tree method. Battery voltage straight to the starter motor.
Lots of videos on the interwebs. I have posted some on this board. Search for starter circuit testing, voltage drop testing and multimeter use. Look for the videos from educational sources, not amateurs.
Fist step is always confirm the battery is good. Future diagnosis without this step is like pissing up a rope.
Thanks....
Hope to test today
neg battery to engine case 0.1 ohms, neg battery to bolt on the Starter motor about 0.2 ohms
pos battery to + lead Starter motor with switch pressed, 0.1 to 0.2 ohms
my connections are good right?
still not used a different battery.
and the continuity sound, well sounds.
Ohms does not cut it for cranking resistance. The circuit needs to be under load (cranking or attempting to crank) and measure voltage drop. Again, good battery necessary!
Hey guys. Got a new Starter Motor.
The mechanic took it off and said there were some magnets loose inside the motor that appeared to have "fallen"/come off due to heat.
At that time I was starting the bike about 3 to 6 times in order to get her going b/c of the cold weather would not let her get started.
so apparently I caused the starter to break.
I suppose like any electrical motor, b/c of hi starting currents there should be a maximum number of start attempts for a given time.
Thanks for all the help.
ps.. come other questions about chain slack ..
from your owner's manual:
Important
Never operate the starter more than 5 seconds at a
time. If needed, allow 10 seconds before attempting to
restart the engine.
Happy Thanks Giving!! You all are great at giving advice and also for some internet fun.
This cold weather has my Ducati acting up a gain. (on previous messed up starter motor, Otalora racing (William) helped me out, I thought I had posted such update)
When it gets really cold she not start nicely.
Video 1 is what happens when cold:
http://youtu.be/J8G1gPXCJdk (http://youtu.be/J8G1gPXCJdk)
After checking electrical stuff and it all being fine, I was ready to return the Li Shorai battery when voila, it started, hence video two. The battery is about 1.5 years old. Shorai said to send it and they will test it. Before I send it, what you guys think? is it my starter solenoid? (figure revive this older thread and looking over previous advice)
http://youtu.be/8zAquKxEmyM (http://youtu.be/8zAquKxEmyM)