Hi
I just replaced all my fuel hoses with new ones. I used 5/16 on the lines all the way fom the tank to the carbs. I also just installed a danmoto slip on. When i rev the bike up above 3 k i see flames inside the exhaust. Looks awesome but i assume something is wrong? Too much fuel? Or is it the exhaust?
Bike is a 21k mile 2001 m600 with a jetkit from ca cycle works. Removed snorkels and k and n filter. I didnt notice flames when i had the stock cans on and prior to changin the fuel hoses and removing snorkels.
Sure sounds like you are running way too rich...unburned fuel being ignited in the muffler. Have you set the air fuel screw to the recommended position (3 turns out from seated I believe)?
Check your spark plugs...black and sooty is indicative of running rich, along with a strong gasoline exhaust smell.
I have seen bikes on hard accel, and a sudden closing of the throttle backfire with flames.
I wouldn't think it is the air box, since opening it up would allow more airflow, and actually lean it out a bit.
I have the screws out 3.5 turns per the factory pro jetkit instructions. Should i go 4 or 4.5?
I feel like i may be running lean. I had exhaust popping on my sc1000 and it turned out it was running lean. Would make sense with the open exhaust i just put on? Maybe screw in the idle screws?
Also when i had the stock cans on i didn't hear any popping in the exhaust (maybe because it they are way quieter). But since the only thing i changed recently were the fuel hoses and the new slip on, could maybe a small kink somewhere in the hoses cause a delay in fuel delivery and then the sudden pop/ignition in the exhaust?
You are right about the lean condition causing a pop/crackle. I've found a pretty good write up here:
http://www.mikuni.com/tg_backfires_in_exhaust.html (http://www.mikuni.com/tg_backfires_in_exhaust.html)
Let me know what you think after taking a look at that. Also, I still think taking a look at your plugs will tell you a lot about how it is running. Check this site out on how to "read" them:
http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/tech_support/spark_plugs/faqs/faqread.asp?mode=nml (http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/tech_support/spark_plugs/faqs/faqread.asp?mode=nml)
A pinched line could also be the culprit, is this issue intermittent or does it happen all of the time? Only with a sudden throttle closure?
You are likely lean. Have you taken the bike on the road? Esay shade tree test. Put the snorkels back on. Better? You are lean. Worse? You are rich. No difference? Try a little choke. Also, look at the spark plugs for color. If you are running slip-ons, not full exhaust back pressure was not changed much. Kinked fuel lines is a good place to start. I would check that before anything else.
Ok will try that. It happens when i close the throttle.
One question on test.
If I put the snorkels back on, it leads to allowing less air in the box, and hence bike was running lean before (too much air) ?
If no kink and no change with snorkels should i try to run in the screws from 3.5 to 3 or 2.5?
Also reading the links provided above. The stock cans didn't have any clamps between the exhaust headers and mufflers, and the new pipes just slightly slide in and are fairly lose, could this be causing a leak or is this too far down the exhaust?
Quote from: Radracer6 on March 24, 2014, 05:51:45 AM
Ok will try that. It happens when i close the throttle.
One question on test.
If I put the snorkels back on, it leads to allowing less air in the box, and hence bike was running lean before (too much air) ?
Yes.
If no kink and no change with snorkels should i try to run in the screws from 3.5 to 3 or 2.5?
Too many unknowns to answer that one. You could try 1/2 turn in either direction and see what happens since you can return to the origional setting.
Also reading the links provided above. The stock cans didn't have any clamps between the exhaust headers and mufflers, and the new pipes just slightly slide in and are fairly lose, could this be causing a leak or is this too far down the exhaust?
Your '01 does not use clamps, the muffler inlet simply slips into the double wall female. Yes. if air is drawn in there you will get flames. If there is a leak there exhaust paste might help
Flame on decel is a sign of rich, but could still be either. Rich means unburned fuel that can ignite when mixed with fresh air at high temperature. If lean enough to cause misfire you will also have unburned fuel plus more heat.It might have existed before. You would most likely not see flame on the OEM muffler. Any backfire or popping from the air box?
After I initially installed the jetkit last summer i left the snorkels in and with the stock exhaust on a cold morning start and initial warmup if i revved it a little i would hear a popping from the airbox, yes.
I removed the snorkels recently and didn't hear airbox popping on the startup this time.
Did you pull those plugs yet? ;)
Quote from: Radracer6 on March 24, 2014, 12:42:39 PM
After I initially installed the jetkit last summer i left the snorkels in and with the stock exhaust on a cold morning start and initial warmup if i revved it a little i would hear a popping from the airbox, yes.
I removed the snorkels recently and didn't hear airbox popping on the startup this time.
Cold morning start doesn't count since cold engines need a richer mixture, the reason you have a choke lever.
I'm gonna run a bunch of these tests tomorrow and pull the plugs. The air filter in there has been there since i bought the bike used last year and not sure how long before that, i want to change that and see if that makes a difference. If i don't get the filter tomorrow would removing the airbox cover give me a good idea if airflow is the issue?
Update
So I pulled the plugs today and they were black at the ends. Pics below
(http://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/o704/Kain2882/54c2042026b759043e6d2f4e311ac843_zpsf1b7c844.jpg)
(http://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/o704/Kain2882/686a8c428183f1386784dbbd4c9766ac_zps9c4ba645.jpg)
So it looks like it is running a bit rich. Please note these plugs were in since summer. After the factory pro jet kit but before the new exhaust and brand new filter.
I have the following setting per factory pro instructions
New emulsion tubes
Main jet #140 (132.5 stock)
Pilot jet #40 ( I believe stock is also 40)
Needles at position #4
Mixture screws at 3.5 turns out
Floats adjusted to 14mm height
Snorkels removed
So I replaced the old kn filter with a new k&n today and fired it up, I wanted to get the exhaust popping and flaming on video however it didn't flame and pop as it did before. Only thing I noticed is it seemed delayed/boggy revving 1/4 throttle to about 2500 rpm and felt strong past that 3k rpms and up. I've uploaded the video below
http://youtu.be/MhosTzZJkoM (http://youtu.be/MhosTzZJkoM)
Did you replace or clean those plugs before you put them back in and shot your video?
After 1/4 throttle, the needle jets take over from the pilot jets. You could move the needle position down (away from the tapered needle end) to lean it out.
You could also ask Factory Pro directly since they know more that I ever will. [thumbsup]
Yes cleaned em. Got the kit from ca cycle works. Shot them a mail. It seemed to be running good after 1/4 but boggy before. Maybe mixture screws too far out too? Will see what they say
Start with new plugs, cleaning plugs often is not enough particularly when they are glazed like one seems to be in the photo. Then , while warm and running, equally turn the idle screws in 1/4 turn at a time. If the bike is still running when the screws are lightly seated the bike is getting fuel from somewhere, most likely, either your float setting is too high, the float needle and seet are snot fully closing or fuel is entering through the cold start enrichment circuit. If the bike stalls before the screws seat the idle air jets are likely clogged.
Remember that, after all of this is sorted, you're going to need to synchronize your carbs too.
Will try that. I know I keep coming back to this but could it be simply the fuel screws are set out too much? Or would that not affect the plugs as much
It's possible. Try one thing at a time - it wouldn't hurt and start ruling things out.
Just make sure you do the sync last.
Update
I put in new plugs and I rode the bike around. Still felt slight hesitation at the initial throttle open coming off the stop light but ran strong after 2k rpms and up.
Howie I tried turning in the idle mixture screws. The bike turned off when I had the screws about 1/4 turns out.
On the initial test ride I had them out 3.5 turns. I turned them in to 3 turns out and revved it a bit and seemed to not have some of the hesitation but could be the bike was properly warmed up at that pt.
how long before the new plugs will give me a good reading? I didn't ride more than 5 to 10 mins this time and pulled them, just saw slight grey coloring at the electrode but that's it.
Did you sink the throttles yet? After that, find someone with an exhaust analyzer and check that the CO is between 3 and 6%. If it is, your problem might be with the pilot jet. Also, keep in mind the bike will never be silky smooth at low RPM. Over the internet we have no way of knowing how your bike is running. You also need to rule out mechanical problems like a weak cylinder or vacuum leak.
Yes I've synced them.
I'll also have another look at the new plugs since the old ones were in before the snorkels were removed, new filter and exhaust. How long do I need to ride before they give me a decent reading?
Take it out for a normal ride. When you get home, try to hit the kill switch when the RPMs are near cruising speed if you can. Don't let the bike idle too long before checking the plugs, it will be less accurate.
Quote from: Dellikose on April 06, 2014, 05:26:50 PM
Take it out for a normal ride. When you get home, try to hit the kill switch when the RPMs are near cruising speed if you can. Don't let the bike idle too long before checking the plugs, it will be less accurate.
Yep, cruise, cut ignition, coast to the side of the road and check. Obviously not on a road with traffic band observe extreme caution. probably won't tell you much about your off idle transition problem though.
Great thanks.
The off idle hesitation is when I blip the throttle from idle. I'm really thinking it's because the idle mixture is too rich with the mixture screws being out too much.
Factory pro instructions said 3.5 out which is where I had them, while stock setting is 2.5 out and ducati suite recommended 2.75 out with factory pro on his 750. I will fiddle with that some more.
Update. So i pulled the new plugs and heres what i saw
Front cylinder if im readinng right is running ok. Top looks grey.
(http://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/o704/Kain2882/6344538D-2709-45E3-99AB-7F09F4CD647F_zpshv2ghvgy.jpg)
Now the rear looks lean
(http://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/o704/Kain2882/2D14B958-F79D-4D66-A00D-E27B02DAE6B8_zpswf6qhvqe.jpg)
I am thinking i may have an air leak? When i first got the bike it felt like it had no power on the highway and would continually rev up if i opened the throttle slightly. I found there were cracks in the hose that went from the crankcase blowoff to airbox. Once i taped that hose up it ran an revved correctly and power was back.
Now I'm experiencing the same symptoms again so I'm thinking air leak again and with the lean condition on the second plug. I sprayed some wd40 on the boots and the trumpets of the airbox but nothing. Looked over everything and didn't see much wrong. I saw cracks in the hoses coming off the carbs to the pods on the side so i taped them up and cut out the cracked pieces. What yall think? Am i missing anything looking for this airleak? Can the vacuum lines coming front the vacuum petcock and fuel pump into the intakes be causing a leak?
Sounds to me like you need to replace a bunch of rubber stuff and not just tape it up.
The pod hoses will not cause a vacuum leak, nor will the boots from the air box to the carbs. Replace the bad hoses to the pods any way. Keep in mind, the fat ones have filters. The hoses to the pump and fuel shut off will though, as well the hoses to the charcoal canister if you still have one, or poorly sealed vacuum taps if it was eliminated. Also make sure the intake runners do not leat where they attach to the carbs and heads.
One other place to look is if you have caps on the vacuum taps - they get brittle pretty quick.
QuoteThe hoses to the pump and fuel shut off will though
yes I'm thinking these may be it, only hoses i didn't replace, will check these asap.
Quotevacuum taps if it was eliminated,
QuoteOne other place to look is if you have caps on the vacuum taps - they get brittle pretty quick.
you guys mean where the nipples for the evap canister used to be attached to the intakes? There are bolts on there.
ok cool thanks for the info will check.
Yes. The seal can be not so good. A little RTV sealer on them is a good idea.
Hi
It was the short vacuum hose from the fuel pump to the intake. The Lean plug was on that cylinder as well. Changed it and all good now, revs right, power back and idles well. Thanks!
I'm glad you got it sorted, what was your source for the vacuum hose? I have a feeling mine are about due.
Most of the hoses I picked up at pepboys, but this particular one i had an extra in the size off the evap canister i just took off my 2012 evo